I Think Green is crippling Pettersson with a dump and chase style

[MeanSeanBean]

11th in scoring.

[*Buzzsaw*]

The problem with all the popcorn critics here is they think my criticism is for Pettersson... far from the case.  I think this kid has incredible talent... but his real potential is being wasted.

 

Pettersson is showing his amazing abilities by scoring despite the handicaps Green has placed on him.

 

This is a testament to how good Pettersson is, and at the same time its an indictment of Green's lack of skill as an offensive coach.

 

Pettersson is being forced to score many of his goals and assists with trick deflections off friendly or enemy players in front of the net... either that or garbage goals where he has to muck it up in the crease like he was Tim Kerr... and he is not built like Kerr and this is not his natural style.

 

The style he plays is a fast skating game, emphasizing passing and shots on the move where he can hammer it without having someone standing in front of him and the goal.

 

But he never gets any goals on the rush anymore, because Green doesn't have a clue as how to coach fast breakouts and or planned offensive rushes.

 

Pettersson should be scoring dozens of these types of goals, he has linemates who can skate and pass, but it is obvious Green doesn't have a clue as how to teach players combination entries into the zone in possession, all Green teaches is to dump it in as soon as you hit the red line.

 

And what is worse about Green's dump and chase... he doesn't even coach that well.  In a well executed dump and chase, the guy who dumps the puck in is behind the guy who first gains entry and that guy is moving at full speed... that rarely happens with the Canucks.  Most of the time the D beats the Canuck to the puck and has a chance to move it.

 

This team has completely lost its ability to score bunches of goals at even strength... 7 goals in the last 10 games at even strength.  Now they are relying on the other team to take stupid penalties and provide man advantages in order to win... but that won't happen when other teams realize the Canucks can't score 5 on 5.  And those penalties won't come in the playoffs either... when the refs put away their whistles and let the borderline calls go.

 

Dump on me as much as you want... but that doesn't change the fact Green has failed to create an offensive system which can deliver the goals at even strength.

[*Buzzsaw*]

On 11/21/2019 at 9:52 PM, Devron44 said:

I honestly don’t get it at all. Like you think he should have like 15 goals by now? Also how many goals in an NHL are actually scored off the rush? Even the leagues elite have to find ways to other ways to score goals sometimes. I think your in the wrong era man

 

Maybe you should watch the Oilers or something. They’ve had great coaches right? and McDavid scores of the rush 

 

At the end of the day it’s about winning hockey games and not a skills competition. Petey has been just fine and he’s just going to get better. He’s still needs to fill out his frame if he wants to take yet another step 

Perfect example of what a coaching change can do.

[Pears]

19 minutes ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

The problem with all the popcorn critics here is they think my criticism is for Pettersson... far from the case.  I think this kid has incredible talent... but his real potential is being wasted.

 

Pettersson is showing his amazing abilities by scoring despite the handicaps Green has placed on him.

 

This is a testament to how good Pettersson is, and at the same time its an indictment of Green's lack of skill as an offensive coach.

 

Pettersson is being forced to score many of his goals and assists with trick deflections off friendly or enemy players in front of the net... either that or garbage goals where he has to muck it up in the crease like he was Tim Kerr... and he is not built like Kerr and this is not his natural style.

 

The style he plays is a fast skating game, emphasizing passing and shots on the move where he can hammer it without having someone standing in front of him and the goal.

 

But he never gets any goals on the rush anymore, because Green doesn't have a clue as how to coach fast breakouts and or planned offensive rushes.

 

Pettersson should be scoring dozens of these types of goals, he has linemates who can skate and pass, but it is obvious Green doesn't have a clue as how to teach players combination entries into the zone in possession, all Green teaches is to dump it in as soon as you hit the red line.

 

And what is worse about Green's dump and chase... he doesn't even coach that well.  In a well executed dump and chase, the guy who dumps the puck in is behind the guy who first gains entry and that guy is moving at full speed... that rarely happens with the Canucks.  Most of the time the D beats the Canuck to the puck and has a chance to move it.

 

This team has completely lost its ability to score bunches of goals at even strength... 7 goals in the last 10 games at even strength.  Now they are relying on the other team to take stupid penalties and provide man advantages in order to win... but that won't happen when other teams realize the Canucks can't score 5 on 5.  And those penalties won't come in the playoffs either... when the refs put away their whistles and let the borderline calls go.

 

Dump on me as much as you want... but that doesn't change the fact Green has failed to create an offensive system which can deliver the goals at even strength.

What handicaps? You’re just looking for excuses. 

[WeneedLumme]

11 hours ago, canuck73_3 said:

@*Buzzsaw* just doubling down on the awful takes eh? 

Seems to be a fairly common belief on CDC that no matter how bizarre your idea is, you aren't wrong as long as you don't admit you are wrong.

[coolboarder]

Every coach has an expiration date.  Green is good for this young group.  Once EP hits the prime, he will be able to play a lot more creative plays and Green if he still is the coach will let him off the leash and let him do what he would like to do in the offensive zone.   Because he is in his 2nd year and trust is not completely there yet.   He has to earn the trust for EP to do whatever he wants if he is responsible defensively.   Green is perfect for this group despite EP being hampered by Green may be true but Green doesn't want to lose games if he doesn't trust EP yet.  

 

If the Canucks is able to regain the scoring at will like October, then Green might be more likely to allow EP to get creative in 3rd period if we are playing with 3-4 goal lead with few minutes left in the game on a frequent basis.  If the creative part works late in the game that yield more goals where EP pads the stats then he will get the leash off and let EP play the way he sees fit in 1st period within next season as its earliest.  Green wants to see how he is playing with tight checking and how he is reacting to it because come the playoffs, there's no room and it's the perfect way to practice the tight checking now. By the time playoffs comes around, if we make it, EP will have played the same way and find a way to exploit the same opponents over 7 games despite tight checking.  

 

Creativity part will come later.  This rings the true for all young players coming in the league thinks that he is Gretzky only to find out that teams will target him sooner rather than later and ruin his career asap before he took off.  Green knows this and protect EP this way.  

[MeanSeanBean]

11 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

The problem with all the popcorn critics here is they think my criticism is for Pettersson... far from the case.  I think this kid has incredible talent... but his real potential is being wasted.

 

Pettersson is showing his amazing abilities by scoring despite the handicaps Green has placed on him.

 

This is a testament to how good Pettersson is, and at the same time its an indictment of Green's lack of skill as an offensive coach.

 

Pettersson is being forced to score many of his goals and assists with trick deflections off friendly or enemy players in front of the net... either that or garbage goals where he has to muck it up in the crease like he was Tim Kerr... and he is not built like Kerr and this is not his natural style.

 

The style he plays is a fast skating game, emphasizing passing and shots on the move where he can hammer it without having someone standing in front of him and the goal.

 

But he never gets any goals on the rush anymore, because Green doesn't have a clue as how to coach fast breakouts and or planned offensive rushes.

 

Pettersson should be scoring dozens of these types of goals, he has linemates who can skate and pass, but it is obvious Green doesn't have a clue as how to teach players combination entries into the zone in possession, all Green teaches is to dump it in as soon as you hit the red line.

 

And what is worse about Green's dump and chase... he doesn't even coach that well.  In a well executed dump and chase, the guy who dumps the puck in is behind the guy who first gains entry and that guy is moving at full speed... that rarely happens with the Canucks.  Most of the time the D beats the Canuck to the puck and has a chance to move it.

 

This team has completely lost its ability to score bunches of goals at even strength... 7 goals in the last 10 games at even strength.  Now they are relying on the other team to take stupid penalties and provide man advantages in order to win... but that won't happen when other teams realize the Canucks can't score 5 on 5.  And those penalties won't come in the playoffs either... when the refs put away their whistles and let the borderline calls go.

 

Dump on me as much as you want... but that doesn't change the fact Green has failed to create an offensive system which can deliver the goals at even strength.

I think you are misunderstanding the criticism of your post. I don't think people think you are saying Petey is an underwhelming player or not the incredible talent that he is. People are critisizing you because you are saying that Pete's offensive is being completely stifled by Greens coaching. Petey is 11th in the entire league in scoring, in his second year playing in the NHL. Are you expecting under a different coach Petey would have 15 more points? Because that would be a completely unreasonable expectation for him.

 

This post was written when he was going through a minor slump ( while still putting up points). I think other posters are piling on this post, because you continue to double down on your assessment, even though statistics don't currently back it up in anyway. It is entirely unreasonable to be criticizing a player's offense, who is under 21, and top 15 in the entire NHL in scoring.

 

Further more, not every goal is going to be a highlight reel goal. If that is your argument (which it sometimes seems to be somtimes) then we don't have anything to talk about here. Good offensive players score goals in many different ways. It doesn't matter how the puck hits the twine, it only matters that it does.

[Baggins]

Maybe it's just the sophmore jinx holding him to 1.21 points per game. 

[johngould21]

12 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

The problem with all the popcorn critics here is they think my criticism is for Pettersson... far from the case.  I think this kid has incredible talent... but his real potential is being wasted.

 

Pettersson is showing his amazing abilities by scoring despite the handicaps Green has placed on him.

 

This is a testament to how good Pettersson is, and at the same time its an indictment of Green's lack of skill as an offensive coach.

 

Pettersson is being forced to score many of his goals and assists with trick deflections off friendly or enemy players in front of the net... either that or garbage goals where he has to muck it up in the crease like he was Tim Kerr... and he is not built like Kerr and this is not his natural style.

 

The style he plays is a fast skating game, emphasizing passing and shots on the move where he can hammer it without having someone standing in front of him and the goal.

 

But he never gets any goals on the rush anymore, because Green doesn't have a clue as how to coach fast breakouts and or planned offensive rushes.

 

Pettersson should be scoring dozens of these types of goals, he has linemates who can skate and pass, but it is obvious Green doesn't have a clue as how to teach players combination entries into the zone in possession, all Green teaches is to dump it in as soon as you hit the red line.

 

And what is worse about Green's dump and chase... he doesn't even coach that well.  In a well executed dump and chase, the guy who dumps the puck in is behind the guy who first gains entry and that guy is moving at full speed... that rarely happens with the Canucks.  Most of the time the D beats the Canuck to the puck and has a chance to move it.

 

This team has completely lost its ability to score bunches of goals at even strength... 7 goals in the last 10 games at even strength.  Now they are relying on the other team to take stupid penalties and provide man advantages in order to win... but that won't happen when other teams realize the Canucks can't score 5 on 5.  And those penalties won't come in the playoffs either... when the refs put away their whistles and let the borderline calls go.

 

Dump on me as much as you want... but that doesn't change the fact Green has failed to create an offensive system which can deliver the goals at even strength.

Not many goals are scored on the rush anymore. It's how the game plays out. Line rushes in practice are a lot different than game situations. Line changes, short handed situations, player fatigue, all play into a goal scored on the rush. Goals at even strength aren't the same as goals on the rush, because the two very seldom take place. Sadly the game is all about pp opportunities.

Edited November 25, 2019 by johngould21

[canuck73_3]

2 hours ago, WeneedLumme said:

Seems to be a fairly common belief on CDC that no matter how bizarre your idea is, you aren't wrong as long as you don't admit you are wrong.

I mean Pettersson is on pace for career highs but no, he's definitely being held back by the coach... lol

[*Buzzsaw*]

Yeah guys... keep believing Green is an awesome coach.... as you watch Pettersson have the worst game of his career with his frustration showing.

 

He has completely forgotten how to pass... was trying to do it all by himself against Philly, and the result was turnover after turnover.

 

I love Pettersson's potential and his skill level... but right now he is being frustrated by the system he is playing in.

 

The same applies to Boeser... he is also getting frustrated by the lack of a system which plays to his skills.

 

This team has to be coached to emphasize gaining the zone in possession and giving Pettersson and Boeser good shot opportunities.

 

Right now that is not happening.

 

 

 

Edited November 26, 2019 by *Buzzsaw*

[Devron]

1 hour ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Yeah guys... keep believing Green is an awesome coach.... as you watch Pettersson have the worst game of his career with his frustration showing.

 

He has completely forgotten how to pass... was trying to do it all by himself against Philly, and the result was turnover after turnover.

 

I love Pettersson's potential and his skill level... but right now he is being frustrated by the system he is playing in.

 

The same applies to Boeser... he is also getting frustrated by the lack of a system which plays to his skills.

 

This team has to be coached to emphasize gaining the zone in possession and giving Pettersson and Boeser good shot opportunities.

 

Right now that is not happening.

 

 

 

If you watched the game most of the team was trying the do it by themselves. Not just Petey. It was probably their worst performance, maybe top 3 this year anyway. Lucky it was 2-1 Demko stood on his head. Nothing like the team game they played against the caps. It’s an 82 game schedule. Let’s hope the boys are ready in Pittsburgh 

[canuck73_3]

1 hour ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Yeah guys... keep believing a good thread will come from @*Buzzsaw*

 

Right now that is not happening.

 

 

 

 

[cuporbust]

22 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

The problem with all the popcorn critics here is they think my criticism is for Pettersson... far from the case.  I think this kid has incredible talent... but his real potential is being wasted.

 

Pettersson is showing his amazing abilities by scoring despite the handicaps Green has placed on him.

 

This is a testament to how good Pettersson is, and at the same time its an indictment of Green's lack of skill as an offensive coach.

 

Pettersson is being forced to score many of his goals and assists with trick deflections off friendly or enemy players in front of the net... either that or garbage goals where he has to muck it up in the crease like he was Tim Kerr... and he is not built like Kerr and this is not his natural style.

 

The style he plays is a fast skating game, emphasizing passing and shots on the move where he can hammer it without having someone standing in front of him and the goal.

 

But he never gets any goals on the rush anymore, because Green doesn't have a clue as how to coach fast breakouts and or planned offensive rushes.

 

Pettersson should be scoring dozens of these types of goals, he has linemates who can skate and pass, but it is obvious Green doesn't have a clue as how to teach players combination entries into the zone in possession, all Green teaches is to dump it in as soon as you hit the red line.

 

And what is worse about Green's dump and chase... he doesn't even coach that well.  In a well executed dump and chase, the guy who dumps the puck in is behind the guy who first gains entry and that guy is moving at full speed... that rarely happens with the Canucks.  Most of the time the D beats the Canuck to the puck and has a chance to move it.

 

This team has completely lost its ability to score bunches of goals at even strength... 7 goals in the last 10 games at even strength.  Now they are relying on the other team to take stupid penalties and provide man advantages in order to win... but that won't happen when other teams realize the Canucks can't score 5 on 5.  And those penalties won't come in the playoffs either... when the refs put away their whistles and let the borderline calls go.

 

Dump on me as much as you want... but that doesn't change the fact Green has failed to create an offensive system which can deliver the goals at even strength.

No, he is coaching a very young, inexperienced core, and new additions. He is doing just fine.

[*Buzzsaw*]

Bumping this one for all those posters who are jumping all over Pettersson.

 

Green has destroyed EP's confidence and spark with his coaching... as I predicted several years ago.

 

He has done the same with Boeser and most of the other high skill players on the team.

 

Until he is replaced this team will not go forward.

 

I am hoping Pettersson has not been permanently damaged.

[TheNewGM]

you watching pettersson play ? i think pettersson is crippling himself with his god awful play. nice giveaway today also.. Kid thinks he back in junior after holding out for 7+ M

[EddieVedder]

On 10/26/2019 at 11:04 PM, *Buzzsaw* said:

Here is what I see as happening to Pettersson:

 

-  He is scoring a lot less... and his goals are garbage goals... picked up from rebounds, close in plays, etc.  They are not the type of creative plays we saw last year.  The fact he is not scoring is completely uncharacteristic... he was known as a scorer in all his teams.

 

-  He is not scoring on the rush and he is not scoring powerplay goals... something he did last year regularly.

 

-  His effectiveness on even strength rushes has basically disappeared.  This is a function of the style that Green coaches.  Which is lunch bucket... play your position, straight up and down, dump the puck in and chase it.  Trying to force Pettersson into this style of play is a waste of his talents.  Pettersson is not a grind it out forechecking style of player... he is not a power forward... to expect him to play this style is a waste of natural skills.  He is a stickhandler, passer, with a tremendous shot who should be getting his opportunities off the rush.  But Green has gotten rid of any creativity on the team... with the exception of Hughes... who has it naturally and hasn't had it beaten out of him yet.  If you don't believe this is Green's plan, then you didn't watch the interview with Brock Boeser during the Washington game... when BB said they were coached to play it safe... get the puck in deep and then dig for it.  You can also see this with your own eyes every game.

 

To be effective, Pettersson should be on a line with players who are willing to skate with the puck out of their position, who can criss cross, use entries into the zone with one lineman behind the leader to take a drop pass, all the different combinations which a good team will use.  If you watched the Washington game, you saw examples of that frequently from the Cap's players... the whole team was criss crossing to confuse the Canuck defense and gain the zone... they used the drop pass frequently.  This type of play is not unusual... it is standard in the repetoire of any good NHL coach.  But unfortunately it seems to be missing in Green's coaching vocabulary.

 

The other completely strange thing is that Green and Newell Brown have completely given up on getting both Pettersson and Boeser one timers on the PP.  How this can be happening is completely a mystery.  The Canucks have in BB and EP two of the best shooters in the league... and Green has basically said... forget about shooting, focus on getting garbage goals from rebounds generated by shots from the point.  To say this is a failure is understating the point.  There are many teams in the league who have players with great one timers... Ovechkin is one.  Do you see the Washington coaches tell the Great 8 he should forget about setups for one timers????  Sure, it can be difficult to get those setups... but you don't give up.

 

Some will point to the fact Pettersson has 11 pts in 10 games... with a projection of a 90 pt season.  Well last year at 10 games he was projected to have a 130 pt season with 60 goals.  Everyone tails off at the end of the season.

 

As long as Green keeps restricting Pettersson's creativity, and fails to take advantage of his strong points, then EP will fail to develop.

 

I can already see Petey getting frustrated.

Petey can barely handle the damn puck anymore ffs man.  

Edited November 12, 2021 by EddieVedder