I Think Green is crippling Pettersson with a dump and chase style

[bree2]

1 hour ago, TU90 said:

He's missed quite a few shots, and some have hit the post. If some of those go in/hit the net, we're not having this conversation. 

 

Out of everyone on our team, I worry about EP the least.

 

Boeser is another story - he was so dangerous in his rookie season, now I barely notice him out there.

if you are not watching Boeser , then what games are you watching? 9 points in 10 games is nothing to sneeze at

Edited October 27, 2019 by bree2

[LowerMainLander18]

I am not sure if you have been watching any interviews or been following the Canucks players.

But EP said it himself that Miller brought vet leadership to that line and by playing alongside him, he himself learned that sometimes, its better to dump and chase instead of forcing an entry as he and Boeser have been tightly marked this season. 

 

So this is such a wrong information on Green. 

[-DLC-]

13 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Here is what is happening to Pettersson:

 

-  He is scoring a lot less... and his goals are garbage goals... picked up from rebounds, close in plays, etc.  They are not the type of creative plays we saw last year.  The fact he is not scoring is completely uncharacteristic... he was known as a scorer in all his teams.

 

-  He is not scoring on the rush and he is not scoring powerplay goals... something he did last year regularly.

 

-  His effectiveness on even strength rushes has basically disappeared.  This is a function of the style that Green coaches.  Which is lunch bucket... play your position, straight up and down, dump the puck in and chase it.  Trying to force Pettersson into this style of play is a waste of his talents.  Pettersson is not a grind it out forechecking style of player... he is not a power forward... to expect him to play this style is a waste of natural skills.  He is a stickhandler, passer, with a tremendous shot who should be getting his opportunities off the rush.  But Green has gotten rid of any creativity on the team... with the exception of Hughes... who has it naturally and hasn't had it beaten out of him yet.  If you don't believe this is Green's plan, then you didn't watch the interview with Brock Boeser during the Washington game... when BB said they were coached to play it safe... get the puck in deep and then dig for it.  You can also see this with your own eyes every game.

 

To be effective, Pettersson should be on a line with players who are willing to skate with the puck out of their position, who can criss cross, use entries into the zone with one lineman behind the leader to take a drop pass, all the different combinations which a good team will use.  If you watched the Washington game, you saw examples of that frequently from the Cap's players... the whole team was criss crossing to confuse the Canuck defense and gain the zone... they used the drop pass frequently.  This type of play is not unusual... it is standard in the repetoire of any good NHL coach.  But unfortunately it seems to be missing in Green's coaching vocabulary.

 

The other completely strange thing is that Green and Newell Brown have completely given up on getting both Pettersson and Boeser one timers on the PP.  How this can be happening is completely a mystery.  The Canucks have in BB and EP two of the best shooters in the league... and Green has basically said... forget about shooting, focus on getting garbage goals from rebounds generated by shots from the point.  To say this is a failure is understating the point.  There are many teams in the league who have players with great one timers... Ovechkin is one.  Do you see the Washington coaches tell the Great 8 he should forget about setups for one timers????  Sure, it can be difficult to get those setups... but you don't give up.

 

Some will point to the fact Pettersson has 11 pts in 10 games... with a projection of a 90 pt season.  Well last year at 10 games he was projected to have a 130 pt season with 60 goals.  Everyone tails off at the end of the season.

 

As long as Green keeps restricting Pettersson's creativity, and fails to take advantage of his strong points, then EP will fail to develop.

 

I can already see Petey getting frustrated.

I edited the title because, really, this is your opinion but unless you're on the bench, you really don't know who's being forcefed something that's changing their game.  I feel Green and team recognize Petey's ability to self monitor things and make adjustments for the most part.  So to declare Green's "forcing" something on someone?  I'd like sources of this information.

Statements like "to be effective" as If he's not are just wrong...Petey IS effective but you're setting the bar at "score all the goals all the time".  He does so much more that isn't glaring in a highlight reel way, but could be if the focus wasn't just on the goal as it's scored.

 

Also:  "garbage goals" (like this one) count.  The reason Petey's pretty goals from last year have waned is because the other teams are onto him and he's closely monitored.  So garbage goals are necessary in order to mix it up...it's important other guys also score. 

 https://www.nhl.com/canucks/video/petterssons-top-shelf-goal/t-277437438/c-69896303

 

I do feel Petey is too unselfish at times, but that's recently starting to revert back to when he first started out (with something to prove...mostly, it seems, to himself).  His desire to win is so strong that it's seemingly not important to him to be "the guy" who scores....but to be a guy on the team that scores.   

I feel that when he gets frustrated he tends to really be more aggressive in the will to win in a more selfish perspective.  That he gets super focused on scoring in order to help the team.

 

I think that, in order to have success, teams have to be creative and not one-dimensional.  If we look to Petey to do it all (as we did with the Sedins), it becomes much easier to play against us as oppositions have an easier time formulating a game plan .... check that guy, closely, at all times.  Petey's good at subtly creating room for himself but I feel that mixing things up and having others as the focus will only help the team in the long run.  Not only taking pressure off Petey, but keeping teams guessing.

 

Quote

Everyone tails off at the end of the season.

This is such a general, sweeping statement and just does little to support your point.  

 

[*Buzzsaw*]

Not a single response to my post has explained Pettersson's complete lack of opportunities on the even strength rush... and how it is directly related to his goal production.

 

No one has explained the complete lack of creativity on the rush this whole team displays... with the exception of Quinn Hughes, no one on the team is showing any creativity.

 

These lackings are a direct result of Green's coaching... which has basically reduced the team's offensive game to one dimension...  dump it in.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 27, 2019 by *Buzzsaw*

[-DLC-]

9 minutes ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Not a single response to my post has explained Pettersson's complete lack of opportunities on the even strength rush... and how it is directly related to his goal production.

 

No one has explained the complete lack of creativity on the rush this whole team displays... with the exception of Quinn Hughes, no one on the team is showing any creativity.

 

These lackings are a direct result of Green's coaching... which has basically reduced the team's offensive game to one dimension...  dump it in.

 

 

 

 

Yep.

 

Quote

The reason Petey's pretty goals from last year have waned is because the other teams are onto him and he's closely monitored.  

What are your suggestions, then, on how to be creative on the rush?  I'd like to hear them.

You make it sound SO desperate...but it's not.  We're scoring a hell of a lot of goals and we're staying competitive.  Not too many changes need to be made and I'm not sure you're being patient enough.  We've got some very dynamic players in place and good things are happening. Even if we don't win in blow outs or shut outs. 

 

You haven't responded to the other end of things...with a team like the Caps, do you really expect to just steamroll over them without a response?  And momentum factors in as things do shift as they did.  Again...a few goals likely should have been stopped.  Was that Green's fault?

[LowerMainLander18]

5 minutes ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Not a single response to my post has explained Pettersson's complete lack of opportunities on the even strength rush... and how it is directly related to his goal production.

 

No one has explained the complete lack of creativity on the rush this whole team displays... with the exception of Quinn Hughes, no one on the team is showing any creativity.

 

These lackings are a direct result of Green's coaching... which has basically reduced the team's offensive game to one dimension...  dump it in.

 

 

 

 

I can explain Green and his staff's job well done tho with facts, not just assumptions.

 

We are one of the best PK in the league.

Had half a dozen odd man opportunities in each game. 

Our PP has been pretty good since Huggy took over PP1. 

EP and Boeser still amongst leaders in points despite the opposition putting their best shutdown guys on them every single game. 

Bo being able to carry his load in his line has something to do with the coaching staff putting the right pieces together for him. (Don't get me wrong, Bo has been doing a phenomenal job adjusting to different linemates.)

 

Those are done by good match up ice time by the coaches. 

 

If you are about to blame the coaches' lack of competence, maybe look into what they have done well, compare then find the resultant gain or loss. 

If you are blindly criticizing what you personally think is lacking, I don't know what to say. Call Aquaman and convince him to change things up.

 

It's not like our team is currently in the bottom of the pack in the standings. 

So I am truly scared what you may rage-type when we are on a tough stretch down the season. 

[Alflives]

12 minutes ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Not a single response to my post has explained Pettersson's complete lack of opportunities on the even strength rush... and how it is directly related to his goal production.

 

No one has explained the complete lack of creativity on the rush this whole team displays... with the exception of Quinn Hughes, no one on the team is showing any creativity.

 

These lackings are a direct result of Green's coaching... which has basically reduced the team's offensive game to one dimension...  dump it in.

 

 

 

 

The right way to play hockey is north south.  It’s a game, when played the right way, that has a lot of contact.  Petey, like all our players, is playing the right way.  His line, by the fancy stats, is top five in the league.

Playing east west is the McSofty Loser way to play.  

[Alflives]

15 minutes ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Not a single response to my post has explained Pettersson's complete lack of opportunities on the even strength rush... and how it is directly related to his goal production.

 

No one has explained the complete lack of creativity on the rush this whole team displays... with the exception of Quinn Hughes, no one on the team is showing any creativity.

 

These lackings are a direct result of Green's coaching... which has basically reduced the team's offensive game to one dimension...  dump it in.

 

 

 

 

If the Leafs fire Babcock, which sure is sounding like might happen sooner rather that later, do you think we should fire Green and hire Babs?  

[higgyfan]

11 hours ago, Captain Canuck #12 said:

Haha!  It doesn't sound like it's Green that's responsible for Pettersson's new approach, it's his new linemate's influence: https://www.nhl.com/news/jt-miller-providing-leadership-for-vancouver-canucks/c-310401816

 

For those who don't want to bother with the read, it's Miller who has convinced both Petey and Boeser to just dump it in, rather than always trying to carry it.  

Great article here.  Lot's of interesting points here, so I pasted it in case people are missing it.

 

"I want to be the guy that works and gets the puck back and opens up ice for those two that see the ice better than most guys in the League," Miller said. "I try to keep it simple. If I try to play really skilled like them, I get away from my game, start standing still. So I try to use my speed and size and stick with what works for me normally."

 

That has helped Boeser and Pettersson one way in particular.

 

"Me and [Pettersson] sometimes want to make plays when we should get it deep, and that's what we're kind of learning from him," Boeser said. "Sometimes, we don't need to force those plays and (should) just get the puck deep, because we'll get it back if we get on the forecheck.

 

"So that's something that he's really talked to us about, because if you don't turn the puck over, you're going to be in the offensive zone. We won't spend as much time in the [defensive] zone. 

 

"Even if we're not scoring, I think we're creating chances. I think we haven't spent that much time in the [defensive] zone probably the longest stretch in our careers so far. We've been barely in our [defensive] zone and getting pucks deep and going to work."

 

The Canucks have had 63.98 percent of the 5-on-5 shot attempts with Miller on the ice, 59.02 percent with Pettersson on the ice and 55.14 percent with Boeser on the ice, the best rates among those who have played more than one game.

Last season, they had 50.24 percent with Boeser on the ice and 50.14 percent with Pettersson on the ice.

 

"It's more fun to play in the offensive zone," Pettersson said. "When we play in the [defensive] zone, we focus a lot to play good there and move the puck out of the defensive zone and make plays there. … I feel we have good chemistry, and I feel like I know where they are on the ice."

 

Miller probably will not sustain a point-per-game pace. But his style is sustainable and can help push all three players to new heights.

 

"He has all the attributes of a great hockey player," Boeser said. "He's a veteran guy, so he kind of has taken us under his wing. He plays the right way."

[grumpworsley]

The Canucks are +10 in the goals for and against Category last year we were minus 29. Bottom line is the team is scoring more goals than the opposition. That usually leads to a playoff position. I like the direction and the cohesion the team is showing.

Pettersson is finding open ice and getting good chances.

They are winning games this way, why would you want to mess with it as long as it is working

[chon derry]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

If the Leafs fire Babcock, which sure is sounding like might happen sooner rather that later, do you think we should fire Green and hire Babs?  

 

[Rollieo Del Fuego]

1 hour ago, bree2 said:

if you are not watching Boeser , then what games are you watching? 9 points in 10 games is nothing to sneeze at

Boeser is faster this year, he is digging in on the back check and his shot is coming around again...no worries here either!

[VanIsleNuckFan]

This is how good EP is, he is over a ppg pace and is also currently slumping. I've heard it from multiple people and I'm not even joking. EP would probably say the same thing even!

 

I agree also that this is because of Defensive coverage not coaching.

[higgyfan]

22 minutes ago, Alflives said:

If the Leafs fire Babcock, which sure is sounding like might happen sooner rather that later, do you think we should fire Green and hire Babs?  

Babs' team plays the skill/speed game and relies on PP to 'get it done' rather than physical 'punishment".  Sound familiar?

[LowerMainLander18]

12 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Here is what is happening to Pettersson:

 

-  He is scoring a lot less... and his goals are garbage goals... picked up from rebounds, close in plays, etc.  They are not the type of creative plays we saw last year.  The fact he is not scoring is completely uncharacteristic... he was known as a scorer in all his teams.

I am not sure why you are comparing this season with his rookie season. Obviously, he's so tightly checked this year even when he doesn't have the puck. You can see that every game unless you are blind. On the other hand, last year he had a lot more room to work with when he was on a tear. 

12 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

-  He is not scoring on the rush and he is not scoring powerplay goals... something he did last year regularly.

How would somebody criticize an NHL player for not scoring on a rush..... Each player has different play style. EP40 said it himself he wants to be a good two-way forward. And we often see him defending, being the last forward out of the zone. Scoring on a rush doesn't mean the player is effective. Again, if you are comparing his Rookie season with this season, I don't know what to tell you. 

12 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

-  His effectiveness on even strength rushes has basically disappeared.  This is a function of the style that Green coaches.  Which is lunch bucket... play your position, straight up and down, dump the puck in and chase it.  Trying to force Pettersson into this style of play is a waste of his talents.  Pettersson is not a grind it out forechecking style of player... he is not a power forward... to expect him to play this style is a waste of natural skills.  He is a stickhandler, passer, with a tremendous shot who should be getting his opportunities off the rush.  But Green has gotten rid of any creativity on the team... with the exception of Hughes... who has it naturally and hasn't had it beaten out of him yet.  If you don't believe this is Green's plan, then you didn't watch the interview with Brock Boeser during the Washington game... when BB said they were coached to play it safe... get the puck in deep and then dig for it.  You can also see this with your own eyes every game.

Define disappeared. He's taken a lot of focus from the other team every night. By so, he's giving a lot more room for other lines in general. 

While doing all that, he's still amongst our point leader. 

He needs to score even strength goals to be a top line player in NHL? Who defines that? 

Green might just be letting him do his thing right now as things are going well for the team and EP still picking up points along the way. 

And what makes you think EP shouldn't grind it out in the O-zone and shouldn't forecheck. 

Even if you are 5'5 and 100 lbs guy, you still forecheck. You don't have to knock the guy on his ass every time. You just gotta let them know you are coming for them.

So it's Green's fault for taking away team's creativity? 

Maybe they just want to win games, get those 2 points each night and show the fans the joy of Playoffs hockey. 

I would take a win over EP's hattrick any given night. I am sure EP feels the same way. 

 

12 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

To be effective, Pettersson should be on a line with players who are willing to skate with the puck out of their position, who can criss cross, use entries into the zone with one lineman behind the leader to take a drop pass, all the different combinations which a good team will use.  If you watched the Washington game, you saw examples of that frequently from the Cap's players... the whole team was criss crossing to confuse the Canuck defense and gain the zone... they used the drop pass frequently.  This type of play is not unusual... it is standard in the repetoire of any good NHL coach.  But unfortunately it seems to be missing in Green's coaching vocabulary.

Where are you getting this idea from? I think the players and coaches who actually have their real-life jobs on the line would know better and work harder to become the best they can be, compared to the fans sitting behind their keyboards. 

Maybe the idea you have for EP and his style of game isn't accurate. 

Don't compare this team who had like 10 new players on the roster with shortened training camp for a few of them with Washington Capitals whose core have been playing together for years and know the system inside-out. That is just wrong. 

You can't teach a system of hockey in a few weeks. 

12 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

The other completely strange thing is that Green and Newell Brown have completely given up on getting both Pettersson and Boeser one timers on the PP.  How this can be happening is completely a mystery.  The Canucks have in BB and EP two of the best shooters in the league... and Green has basically said... forget about shooting, focus on getting garbage goals from rebounds generated by shots from the point.  To say this is a failure is understating the point.  There are many teams in the league who have players with great one timers... Ovechkin is one.  Do you see the Washington coaches tell the Great 8 he should forget about setups for one timers????  Sure, it can be difficult to get those setups... but you don't give up.

How did you not see in the first few games, the one timers from EP and Boeser have been shut down completely? That's why they switched it up. 

I agree with a lot of posters that Newell Brown hasn't been very effective so far but it's a work in progress. We have been seeing results lately in PP, so I can't complain. 

The reason to swap their sides was to allow them to make plays down low, or give Huggy more options to shoot from the point with Bo and Miller screening. 

I think it's worked well past few games. 

And did Green really "basically said forget about shooting"? You lost me there completely. lol

EP and Boeser not scoring goals in PP does NOT mean our PP is ineffective. 

Are you seriously comparing a Sophomore and a 3rd year players we have to Ovey? (who likely is one of the greatest shooters in the recent league history?)

Do you think Ovey just stands there till his teammates feed him one-timers? 

Positioning, finding that soft-ice, awareness of the screens all equated to Ovey's success for years. It's not just his shot but the right timing, screening all play equally important part. Knowing when to cheat and take risk is another thing that comes with time. 

Remember, even in that PP unit, Huggy and Miller are new to the team and still adjusting. That's 2/5 of the whole unit. 

12 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Some will point to the fact Pettersson has 11 pts in 10 games... with a projection of a 90 pt season.  Well last year at 10 games he was projected to have a 130 pt season with 60 goals.  Everyone tails off at the end of the season.

Not sure what you mean by "Everyone".

But as for EP, once teams started to notice him and really made his time miserable every night combined with a long NHL schedule + injuries, he started to struggle.

We played 10 games now? And you are already expecting him to trail off like last year? 

I personally think it's a good thing that they are not burning themselves out early. 

12 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

As long as Green keeps restricting Pettersson's creativity, and fails to take advantage of his strong points, then EP will fail to develop.

Who's restricting whose what? smh

12 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

I can already see Petey getting frustrated.

I saw him frustrated when he missed some good opportunities. NOT because he was put into bad situations and couldn't make any play. 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, higgyfan said:

Babs' team plays the skill/speed game and relies on PP to 'get it done' rather than physical 'punishment".  Sound familiar?

Sedin era?  

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Petey is more than just a great offensive player. I am seeing him doing defensive plays and going into the boards and being a force on the defensive side of the puck. 

I know it's early in his career but he reminds me of Bob Gainey with insane offence, and a bit of Gretzky's vision thrown in. 

Petey and Huggy Bear I think are the most complete hockey players this organization has ever seen. 

Last year some comparisons to Datsyuk came up, based on his commitment to a 200 foot game.   Face offs will come with more experience... Datsyuk was 22 when he made the Wings (back then it wasn’t easy to make the team), and it took five years before he became a PPG player (after the lock-out) .. EP is so young, don’t see any need to worry about whether he’s shooting for the moon and winning scoring titles at this point, he’s got his own unique style (thanks to being self-taught), and the background and drive to work on things to improve his game (two off-seasons ago he identified 20 things to work on his shot and drilled each of them until he was satisfied...I mean who does that?).   Eventually Datsyuk won a lot of hardware, was named one of the top hundred best NHL players ever, deservingly so - if he ends up that good we are in for one heck of a ride.   We won’t see the best he’s got for at least a few more years, in the meantime .... well already won the Calder and broke Bures Canuck record...and is just as intriguing in his own way.   Alien.   Didn’t get the nickname for looking goofy - but for doing things never before seen and because he was way too good for his age.   He’s a special talent, his shoot out goal was sick last game.   The one against Rinne last year was one of the best scored all year regulation or otherwise.   I worry about a-holes taking him out a bit, but not at all about how his  play will go.   Eventually it will all click, and when it does he will have his turn at the top of the heap. 

[EdgarM]

25 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Sedin era?  

I know for sure its not the Linden, Bure era. 

[redhdlois]

6 hours ago, GhostsOf1994 said:

A few things, 

 

Petey has won the calder, drawing much more attention from the opposing teams best defensive players.

 

I have noticed the last few games that opposing players are legitimately doing dirty things to Petey with no repercussions.

 

Add in that he has experimented with a few new things he has added to his repertoire.

 

New edges... new stick i think? Or shooting style? 

 

Sophomore slump ? Naah not really for EP40.

 

I do think Petey is too hard on himself,  though it is a good thing.

 

I've also noticed Petey is not as happy after scoring...

 

I think he may be displeased that he didn't get the C but that's something he will need to get over if it is an issue, Petey is GREAT but he's no Bowie!

 

Horvat was drafted as a leader with character, he's been groomed for the C since he was drafted.

 

 

Petey will be fine, it's literally 10 games in and he is over a PPG and looking good. 

 

PETEY HAS NOT EVEN PLAYED 82 NHL GAMES!

 

Edit

 

I forgot to mention i want reaves on the roster asap, if anyone looks at petey even for a millisecond I'd like some brain damage to be the end result.

No.....just no.  Don’t even go there.

[EdgarM]

A new team with many new players and a player is being criticized when he is in the middle of being developed as a young NHL player? Yeah this post makes sense.

Oh yeah, and we are only 10 games into the season.

Edited October 27, 2019 by EdgarM