I Think Green is crippling Pettersson with a dump and chase style

[HorvatToBaertschi]

The only thing I’m personally worried about is the amount of times both EP and BB have missed the net with wide open looks. Uncharacteristic of both of them. 

[ilduce39]

1 hour ago, higgyfan said:

Great article here.  Lot's of interesting points here, so I pasted it in case people are missing it.

 

"I want to be the guy that works and gets the puck back and opens up ice for those two that see the ice better than most guys in the League," Miller said. "I try to keep it simple. If I try to play really skilled like them, I get away from my game, start standing still. So I try to use my speed and size and stick with what works for me normally."

 

That has helped Boeser and Pettersson one way in particular.

 

"Me and [Pettersson] sometimes want to make plays when we should get it deep, and that's what we're kind of learning from him," Boeser said. "Sometimes, we don't need to force those plays and (should) just get the puck deep, because we'll get it back if we get on the forecheck.

 

"So that's something that he's really talked to us about, because if you don't turn the puck over, you're going to be in the offensive zone. We won't spend as much time in the [defensive] zone. 

 

"Even if we're not scoring, I think we're creating chances. I think we haven't spent that much time in the [defensive] zone probably the longest stretch in our careers so far. We've been barely in our [defensive] zone and getting pucks deep and going to work."

 

The Canucks have had 63.98 percent of the 5-on-5 shot attempts with Miller on the ice, 59.02 percent with Pettersson on the ice and 55.14 percent with Boeser on the ice, the best rates among those who have played more than one game.

Last season, they had 50.24 percent with Boeser on the ice and 50.14 percent with Pettersson on the ice.

 

"It's more fun to play in the offensive zone," Pettersson said. "When we play in the [defensive] zone, we focus a lot to play good there and move the puck out of the defensive zone and make plays there. … I feel we have good chemistry, and I feel like I know where they are on the ice."

 

Miller probably will not sustain a point-per-game pace. But his style is sustainable and can help push all three players to new heights.

 

"He has all the attributes of a great hockey player," Boeser said. "He's a veteran guy, so he kind of has taken us under his wing. He plays the right way."

This is exactly it... it may not look as creative or fun, but that’s not the point and in the long run it’s going to be more effective.  
 

As Petey and Brock adapt, they’ll also bring some of that creativity back into this new style of play.  

 

We look like a different team this season... it’s sustainable success. Not just one-off individual efforts.  As always, “it’s early” but I’m not sure this is an issue for the W/L column.

[Dr. Crossbar]

3 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

This is a shift in the right direction, yes it's a bit of sacrifice of Pettersson's skills but it's for the greater good of the team. I would however like to see this skill on display a bit more on the powerplay because we don't lose anything having him rip one timers on the half boards.

I agree. This is a shift in the right direction. Obviously his playmaking is getting others going and we're utilizing his talent in a multidimensional way. Goals will from Petey organically because of how he sees the game and spots opportunities.

 

There's no need to fit him into a one-dimensional role that he needs to carry the team as a goal scorer. What we need, which has been happening, is for others to contribute and get on the score sheet. 

 

I think as the team continues to find their way with the powerplay, we'll see more of Petey taking shots. Right now it looks like they're adapting to Hughes and having better options on the point that weren't there last year. I think we're seeing that evolve in real time. 

[DADDYROCK]

It takes some time to get used to new linemates and I don't see any problems with Peteys game.

He is not scoring at the pace of last year because ,now they put him up against the stronger defensive cores because they now realize the damage he can do if you don't.

Mr. Pettersson is doing great for a "second" year player,what the hell do you expect out of such a young player,even Henrik And Daniel took a while to get rockin'.

[captainhorvat]

14 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Here is what I see as happening to Pettersson:

 

-  He is scoring a lot less... and his goals are garbage goals... picked up from rebounds, close in plays, etc.  They are not the type of creative plays we saw last year.  The fact he is not scoring is completely uncharacteristic... he was known as a scorer in all his teams.

 

-  He is not scoring on the rush and he is not scoring powerplay goals... something he did last year regularly.

 

-  His effectiveness on even strength rushes has basically disappeared.  This is a function of the style that Green coaches.  Which is lunch bucket... play your position, straight up and down, dump the puck in and chase it.  Trying to force Pettersson into this style of play is a waste of his talents.  Pettersson is not a grind it out forechecking style of player... he is not a power forward... to expect him to play this style is a waste of natural skills.  He is a stickhandler, passer, with a tremendous shot who should be getting his opportunities off the rush.  But Green has gotten rid of any creativity on the team... with the exception of Hughes... who has it naturally and hasn't had it beaten out of him yet.  If you don't believe this is Green's plan, then you didn't watch the interview with Brock Boeser during the Washington game... when BB said they were coached to play it safe... get the puck in deep and then dig for it.  You can also see this with your own eyes every game.

 

To be effective, Pettersson should be on a line with players who are willing to skate with the puck out of their position, who can criss cross, use entries into the zone with one lineman behind the leader to take a drop pass, all the different combinations which a good team will use.  If you watched the Washington game, you saw examples of that frequently from the Cap's players... the whole team was criss crossing to confuse the Canuck defense and gain the zone... they used the drop pass frequently.  This type of play is not unusual... it is standard in the repetoire of any good NHL coach.  But unfortunately it seems to be missing in Green's coaching vocabulary.

 

The other completely strange thing is that Green and Newell Brown have completely given up on getting both Pettersson and Boeser one timers on the PP.  How this can be happening is completely a mystery.  The Canucks have in BB and EP two of the best shooters in the league... and Green has basically said... forget about shooting, focus on getting garbage goals from rebounds generated by shots from the point.  To say this is a failure is understating the point.  There are many teams in the league who have players with great one timers... Ovechkin is one.  Do you see the Washington coaches tell the Great 8 he should forget about setups for one timers????  Sure, it can be difficult to get those setups... but you don't give up.

 

Some will point to the fact Pettersson has 11 pts in 10 games... with a projection of a 90 pt season.  Well last year at 10 games he was projected to have a 130 pt season with 60 goals.  Everyone tails off at the end of the season.

 

As long as Green keeps restricting Pettersson's creativity, and fails to take advantage of his strong points, then EP will fail to develop.

 

I can already see Petey getting frustrated.

[Dr. Crossbar]

13 minutes ago, DADDYROCK said:

Mr. Pettersson is doing great for a "second" year player,what the hell do you expect out of such a young player,even Henrik And Daniel took a while to get rockin'.

Excellent point about the Sedins. Seemed like it took forever. So much so that people were starting to question their talent.

 

After 3-4 years, they were showing a glimpse of what was to come at 23-24. They really emerged at 25 immediately following the lockout.

 

Petey is only 20. 

[6string]

7 hours ago, IBatch said:

Yep.  And last year his shooting percentage seemed too high to be sustainable, for him to score more the volume need to go up.   Ovi is a volume shooter and gets his goals based on this and the fact he has a lethal shot at that - haven’t checked but I’d bet he’s already shot the puck more then Gretzky did his entire career.    Both BB and EP need to shoot it more if they are going to see a 40 game season anytime soon.   As for the OP, nothing wrong with rebounds, and as far as last year went and EPs ten goals in ten games....it didn’t take long for other teams best defensive lines OR top lines to start matching up - and when they did he started to dry up.   After the all-star game it dried up even further - I for one, am happy to see that he’s getting on the scoreboard even though he doesn’t seem to have hit his stride yet.    We all know what he can do, it’s a matter of time before we see another offensive explosion and four-five point game.   Maybe even on Monday (because you made this thread the odds go up ha ha - I picked on Levio and his usage and the next game he shut me up with one of the nicest shoot-out goals I’ve ever seen, which BTW, EP scored another beauty last game), not too worried about it.   Miller seems to have given that line a kick in the ass too, and he is a dump and chase player - the odds of him getting the puck back are very good, and he’s a good passer too, it’s up to EP and BB to find the shooting lanes when they do this - same with the PP.  

 

It’s early yet, I’m sure at some point things will start to click, but I’m not excepting 100 points from EP anytime soon (maybe in his prime), or a 50 goal season from BB either.   If they finish the season with 70-80 points each id consider it a success. 

Pettersson will be above a point per game this season, I expect there will be some runs where you can't keep him off the scoring sheet like last year - he is that good imo.

 

Boeser will be in the 30g - 30a club or more with assists, he has so much help around him to elevate his game.

[surtur]

I am not concerned.

The players themselves have pointed out that they are playing this way due to having Miller play with them and they are starting to make the smart play more than the risky play.

Is this the best thing for them ? I don't know as I enjoy the entertaining style that they played prior to this but I am also not going to knock ppg for each player on the top line.  That's pretty decent especially if it continues. 

 

I am sure we will still see a few wild high scoring games that get away from the structured play and are just fun as heck to watch this year.

[skategal]

3 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Not a single response to my post has explained Pettersson's complete lack of opportunities on the even strength rush... and how it is directly related to his goal production.

 

No one has explained the complete lack of creativity on the rush this whole team displays... with the exception of Quinn Hughes, no one on the team is showing any creativity.

 

These lackings are a direct result of Green's coaching... which has basically reduced the team's offensive game to one dimension...  dump it in.

 

 

 

 

Clearly we haven't been watching the same games.  I see some dump and chase, I see some carry it in, I see some passing....I think the Canucks like every team read the play and the defensive setup in front of them and take advantage of that.  If one player has the puck ahead of their teammates, or the rest of the team is going for a change, carrying the puck in might not be a good strategy as it's not always going to work and can end up in an odd man rush the other way in a PDQ hurry.  Not something the goaltender union is in favour of!  

Maybe just chill and enjoy the game?  The Canucks are playing some fun hockey to watch, and as others have posted, EP40 is doing just fine.  

[EdgarM]

2 hours ago, ilduce39 said:

This is exactly it... it may not look as creative or fun, but that’s not the point and in the long run it’s going to be more effective.  
 

As Petey and Brock adapt, they’ll also bring some of that creativity back into this new style of play.  

 

We look like a different team this season... it’s sustainable success. Not just one-off individual efforts.  As always, “it’s early” but I’m not sure this is an issue for the W/L column.

 

2 hours ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

I agree. This is a shift in the right direction. Obviously his playmaking is getting others going and we're utilizing his talent in a multidimensional way. Goals will from Petey organically because of how he sees the game and spots opportunities.

 

There's no need to fit him into a one-dimensional role that he needs to carry the team as a goal scorer. What we need, which has been happening, is for others to contribute and get on the score sheet. 

 

I think as the team continues to find their way with the powerplay, we'll see more of Petey taking shots. Right now it looks like they're adapting to Hughes and having better options on the point that weren't there last year. I think we're seeing that evolve in real time. 

This is how Petey will need to play in the playoffs and is valuable experience for him. One dimensional players will be nullified in the playoffs and Petey is learning to go beyond that, that is what makes him special.

[Toyotasfan]

I don’t see Petey dumping the puck. I see him and Hughes as the only guys who constantly gain the blueline by carrying the puck and making moves. 

[iceman64]

18 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Here is what I see as happening to Pettersson:

 

-  He is scoring a lot less... and his goals are garbage goals... picked up from rebounds, close in plays, etc.  They are not the type of creative plays we saw last year.  The fact he is not scoring is completely uncharacteristic... he was known as a scorer in all his teams.

 

-  He is not scoring on the rush and he is not scoring powerplay goals... something he did last year regularly.

 

-  His effectiveness on even strength rushes has basically disappeared.  This is a function of the style that Green coaches.  Which is lunch bucket... play your position, straight up and down, dump the puck in and chase it.  Trying to force Pettersson into this style of play is a waste of his talents.  Pettersson is not a grind it out forechecking style of player... he is not a power forward... to expect him to play this style is a waste of natural skills.  He is a stickhandler, passer, with a tremendous shot who should be getting his opportunities off the rush.  But Green has gotten rid of any creativity on the team... with the exception of Hughes... who has it naturally and hasn't had it beaten out of him yet.  If you don't believe this is Green's plan, then you didn't watch the interview with Brock Boeser during the Washington game... when BB said they were coached to play it safe... get the puck in deep and then dig for it.  You can also see this with your own eyes every game.

 

To be effective, Pettersson should be on a line with players who are willing to skate with the puck out of their position, who can criss cross, use entries into the zone with one lineman behind the leader to take a drop pass, all the different combinations which a good team will use.  If you watched the Washington game, you saw examples of that frequently from the Cap's players... the whole team was criss crossing to confuse the Canuck defense and gain the zone... they used the drop pass frequently.  This type of play is not unusual... it is standard in the repetoire of any good NHL coach.  But unfortunately it seems to be missing in Green's coaching vocabulary.

 

The other completely strange thing is that Green and Newell Brown have completely given up on getting both Pettersson and Boeser one timers on the PP.  How this can be happening is completely a mystery.  The Canucks have in BB and EP two of the best shooters in the league... and Green has basically said... forget about shooting, focus on getting garbage goals from rebounds generated by shots from the point.  To say this is a failure is understating the point.  There are many teams in the league who have players with great one timers... Ovechkin is one.  Do you see the Washington coaches tell the Great 8 he should forget about setups for one timers????  Sure, it can be difficult to get those setups... but you don't give up.

 

Some will point to the fact Pettersson has 11 pts in 10 games... with a projection of a 90 pt season.  Well last year at 10 games he was projected to have a 130 pt season with 60 goals.  Everyone tails off at the end of the season.

 

As long as Green keeps restricting Pettersson's creativity, and fails to take advantage of his strong points, then EP will fail to develop.

 

I can already see Petey getting frustrated

We'll be fine, other looks can tried depending how we look after the end of November, this is a tough month coming playing 16 games and most of that is going to be against the league's best, until then this really isn't a huge issue unless we fall out of the top half of the league.. 

Edited October 28, 2019 by iceman64

[TU90]

8 hours ago, bree2 said:

if you are not watching Boeser , then what games are you watching? 9 points in 10 games is nothing to sneeze at

So you're saying Boeser has looked like the Boeser we all fell in love with in his rookie year to you?

 

Remember when he hit the crossbar in OT from outside the blueline against the Leafs? That kid believed he could score from anywhere and he could. I haven't seen that from him lately. 

[PistolPete13]

16 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

lol it's only hovering at 20% coz we are 6 for 12 combined total against Detroit and LA.. sure it looked a little better the last 3 games? but 2 of the 3 games are against the bottom 10 teams in the league for PK lol so i wouldn't put too much stock into it... we are 3 for 32 on the powerplay this season if we don't include Detroit and LA.. and if we want to take it further.. we are 2 for 29 against teams ranked higher than 20th on the PK

This just in. Other teams do well on the pp against weaker teams too. Lol.
Can’t complain   about our failure to score against backup goalies, so now it’s on to who we score against on on the PP?

Got to hand it to you. Your complaints are very creative. 

 

[PistolPete13]

8 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Not a single response to my post has explained Pettersson's complete lack of opportunities on the even strength rush... and how it is directly related to his goal production.

 

No one has explained the complete lack of creativity on the rush this whole team displays... with the exception of Quinn Hughes, no one on the team is showing any creativity.

 

These lackings are a direct result of Green's coaching... which has basically reduced the team's offensive game to one dimension...  dump it in.

 

 

 

 

You made a good case for your argument. But since the team is scoring a lot of goals. It’s hard to knock the way that their playing.

Opponents tend to plug up the neutral zone against teams that try to score off the rush. hence the need to play dump and chase.

 

The Stanley Cup is the goal, and playing with creativity is a very difficult way to win it. You gotta be able to grind it out. I’m glad to see that the Canucks seem to be learning to play this way.

 

[Devron]

My favourite part in this whole thread is “Petey will fail to develop” c’mon man he’s 20 years old 

 

Even when this team is playing well there’s posts like this being made it’s ludicrous 

[Hindustan Smyl]

@Psycho_Path - care to explain yourself son?

 

You don’t agree with my comments about Petey and Boeser........why?

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

Excellent point about the Sedins. Seemed like it took forever. So much so that people were starting to question their talent.

 

After 3-4 years, they were showing a glimpse of what was to come at 23-24. They really emerged at 25 immediately following the lockout.

 

Petey is only 20. 

Keep in mind the Sedins were behind a deep team when they came in. (WCE era) 

 

In other words, they weren’t getting first line minutes like EP40 is. They did in 2006 (when they were finally ready and the rest is history) 

 

EP40 was not given this luxury( a top line like the WCE to play behind and develop). He has to shoulder more pressure and go against much tougher competition at a younger age. 

 

Keeping all this mind I actually think EP40 is developing at a faster rate than the Sedins. 

 

We just need to be patient like we were with the Sedins and let the seed eventually turn into that fruit bearing gift year after year. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[4thLineGrinder]

 

kathy bates was awesome in misery,

 

fire green and get tonya harding for new coach

[Bertorama]

I wasn’t considering Petterson’s lack of production Saturday morning....

 

 

I was more wondering how our team failed with .03 seconds in a period giving an opposing forward like 4 seconds in the slot to shoot a puck ......

 

Then I was thinking who’s going to Stop the bleeding on team defence. 

 

I'm just chalking it up to young emotions getting the better of a team that was probably getting a little too confident for their britches. So was the CDC game day thread me included. 
 

Hopefully the post game embarrassment doesn’t hold the kids hostage in their heads and they can use it as fuel to get after the Panthers and back to a team game for 60 Mins.  
 

 

Back to this thread. 
 

If I was Green I would have slightly enjoyed watching my team get handed that loss, as a coach it gives him plenty of ammo to work the team in practices and talk the importance of the team game, little improvements each game as a group will end up in rewards for young players like Brock and Pete.  
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2019 by Bertorama