NWHL Womens Pro League

[SabreFan1]

3 minutes ago, Snapshot85 said:

This is inaccurate.

 

Think what you will... but dont pretend to know me.

 

Sure social justice is part of it.... its 2019......

 

But my information on girls in hockey is from being involved with minor hockey in canada...

 

And I will say it would be good for the sport of hockey and what's good for the sport of hockey is good for the NHL.

 

If you dont get that I dont know what to say 

 

The bolded text tells me allI need to know.  You are "thinking" with your emotions.  I only think with my wallet and my mind when it comes to something I have a stake in.  And before you ask, I'll tell you again, I watch and go to both NHL and (unlike you) watch and go to NWHL games so anything that happens to either directly affects me.

 

This year I don't plan on going to any NWHL games though because from the games I've watched online, the product has become inferior now that they have scabs playing it while most of the best are on strike.

[Snapshot85]

7 minutes ago, SabreFan1 said:

Just about half of the audience at the womens games are men.  We're already supporting it.

Hey Sabre,

That's awsome. I have alot of respect for that.

 

I understand your point on the matter.

I get what your saying.

 

It's a very capitalist view. 

I'm not saying that's a bad thing.

 

I just dont share your view.

I dont believe the league would have to make money for the NHL to have value and be a worthwhile venture for the NHL.

 

I dont throw out terms like its just a mill cavalierly...

But when you can pay 3 entire teams salary in the nwhl for what one players minimum contract in the nhl would be..... were not talking a large percentage.

 

Cheers.

 

 

[Snapshot85]

10 minutes ago, SabreFan1 said:

 

The bolded text tells me allI need to know.  You are "thinking" with your emotions.  I only think with my wallet and my mind when it comes to something I have a stake in.  And before you ask, I'll tell you again, I watch and go to both NHL and (unlike you) watch and go to NWHL games so anything that happens to either directly affects me.

 

This year I don't plan on going to any NWHL games though because from the games I've watched online, the product has become inferior now that they have scabs playing it while most of the best are on strike.

Bolded text tells me all I need to know.

 

If the league was larger and the nearest team not on the other side of the country I would attend. ... another reason nhl  would be a good thing

 

[SabreFan1]

Just now, Snapshot85 said:

Hey Sabre,

That's awsome. I have alot of respect for that.

 

I understand your point on the matter.

I get what your saying.

 

It's a very capitalist view. 

I'm not saying that's a bad thing.

 

I just dont share your view.

I dont believe the league would have to make money for the NHL to have value and be a worthwhile venture for the NHL.

 

I dont throw out terms like its just a mill cavalierly...

But when you can pay 3 entire teams salary in the nwhl for what one players minimum contract in the nhl would be..... were not talking a large percentage.

 

Cheers.

Yep.  This is one of those agree to disagree talks...

 

Don't worry, it's a Canadian board, there are plenty here that will agree with your social justice view even though they know next to nothing about the NWHL. 

 

It'll likely be the same people I've tried but failed to get interested in the NWHL and now the defunct CWHL in the past.

[SabreFan1]

1 minute ago, Snapshot85 said:

Bolded text tells me all I need to know.

 

If the league was larger and the nearest team not on the other side of the country I would attend. ... another reason nhl  would be a good thing

 

Then I wish you had discovered womens hockey in Canada before the CWHL folded.  Players shuttled back and forth between the two leagues.

 

Also, read up on Dani Rylan, the founder and commissioner of the NWHL.  She's lost a lot of the player's and some investors trust.

[Baer.]

Isn't 15k a year well under minimum wage? If they want to be paid more they should go work at McDonalds...

 

People can preach equality or whatever. Fact of the matter is women are not as good as men at sports and nobody cares about female teamsports.

[The Lock]

7 hours ago, Snapshot85 said:

Bolded text tells me all I need to know.

 

If the league was larger and the nearest team not on the other side of the country I would attend. ... another reason nhl  would be a good thing

 

The problem is you need to be able to keep the league running financially. That requires enough support from fans, and not just from the few fans like yourself who really want to support it. It has to actually be able to play a prominent enough role for it all to be feasible in the end.

 

I want the league to succeed too but if there's not enough money in the end, it makes things difficult. For example, take a look at the WNBA, who are also struggling and have a far more prominent role than women's hockey at the moment: https://www.theringer.com/2019/5/23/18636580/wnba-crossroads-labor-cba-negotiations

 

The uphill battle is real and it's not just a hill, it's a cliff....

Edited October 27, 2019 by The Lock

[Alflives]

8 hours ago, Snapshot85 said:

This is inaccurate.

 

Think what you will... but dont pretend to know me.

 

Sure social justice is part of it.... its 2019......

 

But my information on girls in hockey is from being involved with minor hockey in canada...

 

And I will say it would be good for the sport of hockey and what's good for the sport of hockey is good for the NHL.

 

If you dont get that I dont know what to say 

Girls play soccer more than they play hockey.  Should we have a pro girls soccer league?  Girls have fun, just as boys do playing hockey and other sports.  

Becoming a professional player of your sport should never be a parents pursuit for their child.  Lots and lots of men and women play adult sports for fun.  

[TheRealistOptimist]

Women's Professional sports this is a topic I've wanted to debate with someone preferably a woman but let's see what people here think about this.

So I have been getting a little annoyed over the past few years with the whole demand for equal payment argument that Female Professional Athletes have been having. Whether it's the US Women's Soccer team, US or Canadian Women's hockey team or the WNBA players, it never seems to have any rationale behind the argument. It's just the men get paid more than us...we should get paid the same, despite it not being an apples to apples comparison.

There is so much to this and I could ramble on forever, however I will try and keep this relatively short.

 

Is playing professional women's hockey a job that a woman can have and provide for their themselves or their families without having another income? In most cases no, their salaries are pretty terrible for a professional league. However there are valid reasons for this at this stage of the leagues development. 

 

I think people need to remember Women's Professional hockey is still in it's infancy as a league and therefore you are not going to have million dollar plus salaries, even if it is 2019. Male Professional leagues didn't have these salaries in the beginning either. 

 

I think whenever women's leagues fail to attract big attendance or sponsorship numbers which would lead to higher salaries, it always feels like it's an attack against men (at least that's my opinion).

 

I watch sports because I grew up playing them and always loved them, I was always trying to emulate my favourite athlete's on the playing field no matter what sport I was playing. I think that is the same for a lot of male sports fans, we've had that luxury seeing as there have been well established Men's Leagues for a long time now. I'm going to generalize here but I think we watch sports to see the spectacular and to see these professional athlete's do things we could only dream of doing. So when the top women athlete's are playing at a level comparable to an elite level 15-16 year old boys team, I just find it hard to generate that same excitement and passion that I have for the professional men's teams. 

 

And I don't believe I or any other man should be crucified for feeling that way. 

 

The fact of the matter is that women are essentially half of the population, so why do men who like and watch men's sports have to also like and watch women's sports?

 

I think Women's Professional Leagues should be mainly aiming to attract female fans. Female fans are the one's who can relate to these Professional Women's Leagues, sponsorship dollars can be directed toward a majority female fan base. Male fans will show up naturally and they will probably come in droves once the League is well established. However I think it is a mistake to just think Men like _____ men's sport, so they should like and support the equivalent _____ women's sport. 
 

Men already have enough sports to choose from, why would they choose to watch an inferior on field product. That may sound harsh, but it is essentially just me saying the Vancouver Giants are an inferior product to the Vancouver Canucks, so can you blame anybody if they choose not to watch it or support it?

 

It will take time but you can't go from 0 to 100 right away, you have to work your way up to it. 

Anyways I'd be interested in hearing anybody's opinions in regards to my thoughts, especially the demographics these Women's Leagues should be targeting. 

Edited October 31, 2019 by TheRealistOptimist

[189lb enforcers?]

Would I pay 20 bucks to watch one of these games?

mehhhh...  

Would you?

 

Would I spend the three hours it would take to go do that?

No. 

Entertaining as it may be for some, it isn’t to me. 

Would you? 

 

If there is a market, good, as for anything.

 

Should this business be subsidized? I don’t think so.

It should be profitable on its own merits, not inclusion or other identity politics pressure, which is where most of the support appears to be coming from. 

 

Edited October 31, 2019 by 189lb enforcers?

[SabreFan1]

9 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Would I pay 20 bucks to watch one of these games?

mehhhh...  

Would you?

I do go to the occasional Buffalo Beauts game.  I won't this year though because there are mostly scabs on the ice who are playing in place of the actual pros who are on strike.  I've watched this season's games online and it's pretty rough.  Boston is the only team with half decent, but still largely inferior, players and they are crushing everyone else in the league because of it.

 

This strike isn't helping women's hockey at all.  The NHL so far has balked on starting their own women's league, especially while there is a viable alternative.  Unless the current strike forces the NWHL to fold and the NHL to create a league and give them money, it will end up as a giant failure and the players will have lost a year's worth of playing truly competitive hockey.

 

Quote

Would I spend the three hours it would take to go do that?

No. 

Entertaining as it may be for some, it isn’t to me. 

Would you?

I am entertained by it, but I enjoy the game of hockey itself.  99% only enjoy watching the best players in the world which is why men and the NHL have the fan's eyeballs.

 

Quote

If there is a market, good, as for anything.

Absolutely.  It's called capitalism.  Right now the market is only just under 1k per game at $20 a head.

 

Quote

Should this business be subsidized? I don’t think so.

It should be profitable on its own merits, not inclusion or other identity politics pressure, which is where most of the support appears to be coming from.

This times 100.  As popular as the NFL is now, it was once played in dirt parking lots and grass fields by men with day jobs.  Why should it be different for women?  They should be pioneers and build their own league so that some day women can make an actual living at it.  If it fails like past men's leagues have in every major sport, it was never meant to be.  Someone else can try again in the future when there's more of a market and a better business plan.

Edited November 1, 2019 by SabreFan1

[189lb enforcers?]

The brutality and violence in hockey delivers an element of entertainment and fandom that Women’s hockey just can’t match. 

 

Even if the league gets up off the ground, it will be doomed to nothingness and I wager that it will be a business failure before long and once the gender equality myths are fully realized out there. 

 

I get a kick out of in this sport - the gobs of fake-up these ladies wear under their visors. 

Edited November 2, 2019 by 189lb enforcers?

[SabreFan1]

Canada is definitely not a fan of Women's hockey.  Even the UK likes it more.  Not only did the CWHL fold for lack of attendance and viewership and most of all actually having to pay players, but Canada only makes up 9% of the viewership of the only women's hockey league left in North America.

 

Quote

Viewers are tuning from all over the world as only 60 percent of the views are from the US. Ten percent are in the United Kingdom with another 9 percent in Canada. The remaining 21 percent was unreported.

https://www.theicegarden.com/2019/11/8/20954136/nwhl-releases-twitch-streaming-viewership-data-season-five-2019-2020-womens-hockey

[Alflives]

19 hours ago, SabreFan1 said:

Canada is definitely not a fan of Women's hockey.  Even the UK likes it more.  Not only did the CWHL fold for lack of attendance and viewership and most of all actually having to pay players, but Canada only makes up 9% of the viewership of the only women's hockey league left in North America.

 

https://www.theicegarden.com/2019/11/8/20954136/nwhl-releases-twitch-streaming-viewership-data-season-five-2019-2020-womens-hockey

Does that PowderPuff football league still exist?  

[SabreFan1]

5 hours ago, Alflives said:

Does that PowderPuff football league still exist?  

Yep.

 

*NSFW

Spoiler

 

 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, SabreFan1 said:

Yep.

 

*NSFW

  Hide contents

 

 

Sex sells.  Maybe the women hockey players need see through jerseys? 

[SabreFan1]

Just now, Alflives said:

Sex sells.  Maybe the women hockey players need see through jerseys? 

Nah.  They need to be able to check though for sure.  I think that would make their game more exciting.

 

As for the girls who play football, they may be in skimpy outfits, but those girls play hard.  Those hits that they dish out and take are no joke.

[Tortorella's Rant]

Women's sports for the most part suck.

Sorry.. 

[189lb enforcers?]

The size of this thread, most of which is negative anyways, is an indication of how much interest there is in following professional Women’s Hockey. 

 

Last night, they had Spooner on in the intermission, peddling emotions about girls’ dreams and a career opportunity for them playing hockey.

 

She referred to it being “a need”. 

 

Really, a need? 

Socialist thinking, perhaps?

This league is a fantasy league; one supported by emotion and subsidies by tax payers, you know, so they can make a living “playing” too. 

 

 

[SabreFan1]

On 12/11/2019 at 11:11 AM, 189lb enforcers? said:

The size of this thread, most of which is negative anyways, is an indication of how much interest there is in following professional Women’s Hockey. 

 

Last night, they had Spooner on in the intermission, peddling emotions about girls’ dreams and a career opportunity for them playing hockey.

 

She referred to it being “a need”. 

 

Really, a need? 

Socialist thinking, perhaps?

This league is a fantasy league; one supported by emotion and subsidies by tax payers, you know, so they can make a living “playing” too.

I'd be surprised if they got anything from tax subsidies beyond the usual write-off for incurring business related losses.

 

The bulk of their operating cash comes from investment, donations, sponsorships, and sales.

 

As for being a "need".  That's ridiculous.  I'll copy/paste what I wrote in October:

 

Quote

As popular as the NFL is now, it was once played in dirt parking lots and grass fields by men with day jobs.  Why should it be different for women?  They should be pioneers and build their own league so that some day women can make an actual living at it.  If it fails like past men's leagues have in every major sport, it was never meant to be.  Someone else can try again in the future when there's more of a market and a better business plan.