The DumbBrexit / #Wexit thread

[ForsbergTheGreat]

4 minutes ago, Toews said:

Increasing the minimum wage hurts small businesses, startups making it easier for big business to corner the market, it seems no matter what capitalism takes its pound of flesh from the little guy. Capitalism isn't perfect, pretending like these problems don't exist when they are affecting the average Joe is what leads to people becoming more susceptible to political propaganda from fascists/communists. We all pay the price for the greed of the few.

i've never claimed capitalism is perfect but it allows freedom of choice, it allows personal growth and rewards those who are able to supply what society demands. This creates competition which creates efficiency which improves quality of life. It's why you see a "socialist" country like Sweden embrace privatisation of so many industries from Education to health care to pensions.

 

You are bang on about how raising min wage hurts the small business, that's why I'm not totally against a freedom dividend of sort.  Automation is coming, it's going to dramatically reduce jobs at a pace that creation of jobs will not be able to keep up with. 

[Duodenum]

21 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

 

What are you born in the 30's, that's terrible business strategy. No one, especially the CEO's making 10+ million are that dumb to think like that.  You can't drop cost without losing quality. Dropping quality reduced profits, no one, the share holders and the CEO do not win in that situation. That's basic economics 101, Supply, demand, and market equilibrium.  Don't believe me, try opening up a business, then trying paying them less than your competition is paying them, see how long you are able to retain your employees and see how much profit you are able to make.

 

IF you don't think it's generic what is that salary?  What is living wage?  The problem is people trying to live off entery level jobs and not improving their skillset that would demand a higher wage.  

I don't think you get it. These businesses haven't been fighting each other over employee pay, rights, etc. They've been working towards a common goal of keeping workers pay, rights etc weak across the board. Lobbying. Ie. A politician either not increasing or (like Ford just did in Ontario) cancelling a scheduled increase. Don't need to pay more if nobody else is for entry level jobs. It's like you are talking about something completely different.

 

Living wage? That is found easily online. Differs from country to country. Canada averages to around 16$ per hour I think full-time. Currently, the min federal is $11 per. 

 

[Toews]

4 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

i've never claimed capitalism is perfect but it allows freedom of choice, it allows personal growth and rewards those who are able to supply what society demands. This creates competition which creates efficiency which improves quality of life. It's why you see a "socialist" country like Sweden embrace privatisation of so many industries from Education to health care to pensions.

 

You are bang on about how raising min wage hurts the small business, that's why I'm not totally against a freedom dividend of sort.  Automation is coming, it's going to dramatically reduce jobs at a pace that creation of jobs will not be able to keep up with. 

No system is perfect, greed unchecked can bring down just about anything. I believe the growing wealth divide to be of great concern, if discontent continues to rise we may see the rise of more volatile leaders. History generally predicts a bad result when a world is divided into a few haves and a lot of have nots. 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

1 minute ago, Duodenum said:

I don't think you get it. These businesses haven't been fighting each other over employee pay, rights, etc. They've been working towards a common goal of keeping workers pay, rights etc weak across the board. Lobbying. Ie. A politician either not increasing or (like Ford just did in Ontario) cancelling a scheduled increase.

Tin foil hat stuff right there.  How much does WestJet/Air Canada/Forzani pay trudeau to keep min wage low?  Speaking of Ford, Henry ford doubled his employees wage and found that he was able to dramatically increase his profit, productivity increased and he was able to retain his best talent.  When you have a competitive advantage over your competitors you make more profits, that includes your labour force..

 

1 minute ago, Duodenum said:

Don't need to pay more if nobody else is for entry level jobs. It's like you are talking about something completely different.

Yep, i'm speaking basic economics, you're making emotional claims with out logic.  I'm starting to doubt your background on business.

 

1 minute ago, Duodenum said:

Living wage? That is found easily online. Differs from country to country. Canada averages to around 16$ per hour I think full-time. Currently, the min federal is $11 per. 

Actually no it's not, living wage is not a fact, it's an opinion, you can't define a set basic need for every individual as everyone is vastly different..  The living wage in downtown Vancouver is vastly different than the living wage in Weyburn Sask.  Raising min wage to $16 an hour across canada kills small business, increases the rate of automation and ends up putting more people in the unemployment.  

[Ryan Strome]

2 hours ago, inane said:

way to go personal right away? my innocuous post piss you off that much? 

 

maybe reflect on that for awhile. 

 

edit--and what's with the constant kneejerk idiotic reaction people have like this? oh you have don't have glowing reviews of capitalism therefore you're a communist! that's so incredibly stupid it boggles the mind.

Omg really?

[Duodenum]

29 minutes ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Tin foil hat stuff right there.  How much does WestJet/Air Canada/Forzani pay trudeau to keep min wage low?  Speaking of Ford, Henry ford doubled his employees wage and found that he was able to dramatically increase his profit, productivity increased and he was able to retain his best talent.  When you have a competitive advantage over your competitors you make more profits, that includes your labour force..

 

Yep, i'm speaking basic economics, you're making emotional claims with out logic.  I'm starting to doubt your background on business.

 

Actually no it's not, living wage is not a fact, it's an opinion, you can't define a set basic need for every individual as everyone is vastly different..  The living wage in downtown Vancouver is vastly different than the living wage in Weyburn Sask.  Raising min wage to $16 an hour across canada kills small business, increases the rate of automation and ends up putting more people in the unemployment.  

Are you actually arguing that big business doesn't lobby against worker rights or am I dreaming right now. This has to be a bad joke of some sort. The battle between Big Business and Big Labor traverses generations. The tin foil is squarely on the person that doesn't think (or ignores) all the history of lobbying. Three big groups in America include ALEC, US Chamber of Commerce, and the Right to Work Committee Lobby groups. ALEC is made up of 3 million businesses and lobbies on behalf of them in part to weaken worker's rights. Your conspiracy insinuations are just bizarre.

 

 BC has had multiple wage increases and small business hasn't gone anywhere. Canada has had regular min wage increases and unemployment hasn't budged. I'm well aware living wage can differ municipality to municipality, that's why I said 'averages'. Many provinces have indexed their minimum wage to the CPI and have already increased their minimum wages (and continue to do so annually). Others are increasing their minimum rate at a faster pace, like BC and Manitoba. 

 

 

 

[inane]

1 hour ago, Ryan Strome said:

Omg really?

Elaborate? 

[Ryan Strome]

20 minutes ago, inane said:

Elaborate? 

It's you, what I quoted is you. 

[Ryan Strome]

27 minutes ago, Duodenum said:

Are you actually arguing that big business doesn't lobby against worker rights or am I dreaming right now. This has to be a bad joke of some sort. The battle between Big Business and Big Labor traverses generations. The tin foil is squarely on the person that doesn't think (or ignores) all the history of lobbying. Three big groups in America include ALEC, US Chamber of Commerce, and the Right to Work Committee Lobby groups. ALEC is made up of 3 million businesses and lobbies on behalf of them in part to weaken worker's rights. Your conspiracy insinuations are just bizarre.

 

 BC has had multiple wage increases and small business hasn't gone anywhere. Canada has had regular min wage increases and unemployment hasn't budged. I'm well aware living wage can differ municipality to municipality, that's why I said 'averages'. Many provinces have indexed their minimum wage to the CPI and have already increased their minimum wages (and continue to do so annually). Others are increasing their minimum rate at a fastier pace, like BC and Manitoba. 

 

 

 

I will leave you two be but the ndp strategy in Alberta of increasing the minimum wage in Alberta did far more harm than it did good.

[inane]

28 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

It's you, what I quoted is you. 

I'd love to understand why you say that when half the things I post are about how narrow minded and lacking in context convos are. 

 

His knee jerk statement claiming I love communism cause I said something bad about capitalism is just one of many examples. 

[Ryan Strome]

4 minutes ago, inane said:

I'd love to understand why you say that when half the things I post are about how narrow minded and lacking in context convos are. 

 

His knee jerk statement claiming I love communism cause I said something bad about capitalism is just one of many examples. 

Man you use it on me all the time just not on this topic.

As for their discussion he does make some great points and maybe he feels that way cause there is a lot of socialist leaning people. I mean capitalism has a track record of proving it is the best system so far but imo it's like democracy, who said that best democracy is the worst form of government we have but it's better than all rest or however it goes.

 

[Boudrias]

8 hours ago, Toews said:

Sadly I agree, I despise Trump greatly and don't believe his lofty claims but Trump has a shelf life. The business model you describe is something I loathe and is here to stay. I realized a long time ago the only real vote that I have is my wallet, and where I choose to spend my money. I am as an individual far too small to enact large scale changes with today's consumerism hence the only (negligible) effect I have is my spending capacity. I do not currently possess the financial means to vastly overpay for ethically/locally produced resources that I consume, but I do my due diligence each time to make sure that I am not buying some knockoff crap produced in some third world country for pennies and sold here. 

I don’t think the existing situation will continue. Trump is squeezing trade partners already. Although under reported some industry is coming back to the USA. Irregardless when the debt bubble burst and it will it won’t make any difference whether Trump is in power or not, trade barriers will go up. Whether GOP or Dems protectionism escalates. I think globalism has been dying for a decade now. 

[RowdyCanuck]

13 hours ago, ForsbergTheGreat said:

Tin foil hat stuff right there.  How much does WestJet/Air Canada/Forzani pay trudeau to keep min wage low?  Speaking of Ford, Henry ford doubled his employees wage and found that he was able to dramatically increase his profit, productivity increased and he was able to retain his best talent.  When you have a competitive advantage over your competitors you make more profits, that includes your labour force..

 

Yep, i'm speaking basic economics, you're making emotional claims with out logic.  I'm starting to doubt your background on business.

 

Actually no it's not, living wage is not a fact, it's an opinion, you can't define a set basic need for every individual as everyone is vastly different..  The living wage in downtown Vancouver is vastly different than the living wage in Weyburn Sask.  Raising min wage to $16 an hour across canada kills small business, increases the rate of automation and ends up putting more people in the unemployment.  

Raising minimal wage up is just like turning the heat up on the frog so he doesn't know his cooking.....

raising it , only makes the cost of living go up for everyone and their dollar goes the same distance as before.....

if you can't afford to live in Van or Calgary move to s.k or Manitoba , it's cheaper.....

like you said basic ha

 

[ForsbergTheGreat]

12 hours ago, Duodenum said:

Are you actually arguing that big business doesn't lobby against worker rights or am I dreaming right now. This has to be a bad joke of some sort. The battle between Big Business and Big Labor traverses generations. The tin foil is squarely on the person that doesn't think (or ignores) all the history of lobbying. Three big groups in America include ALEC, US Chamber of Commerce, and the Right to Work Committee Lobby groups. ALEC is made up of 3 million businesses and lobbies on behalf of them in part to weaken worker's rights. Your conspiracy insinuations are just bizarre.

 

That’s straight from page one of the conspiracy theory dictionary.  Haha.  It’s all part of some backdoor meeting where McDonalds and Wendy’s meets up with the king (burger king) and queen (dairy queen) to discuss how they are going to screw over the low income people and remove there worker rights.  Unfortunately chik fil a couldn’t be there because it was held on a Sunday, they missed the memo and decided to pay their employee’s more screwing up the whole plan.  Lol.  Unfortunately none of the companies mentioned are corporations involved with ALEC, welp looks like that fast food industry is out.  But thanks for the laugh. 

 

The funny part is if there was a wage fix amongst companies, not only it is illegal, but if the gov’t is helping enforce and regulate that price fix that’s not capitalism, that’s wait for it…socialism, in a free market, all it would take is one competitor to increase there wages to attract and retain more competent talent and they immediately gain a huge competitive advantage over their industry.   

 

12 hours ago, Duodenum said:

 BC has had multiple wage increases and small business hasn't gone anywhere. Canada has had regular min wage increases and unemployment hasn't budged. I'm well aware living wage can differ municipality to municipality, that's why I said 'averages'. Many provinces have indexed their minimum wage to the CPI and have already increased their minimum wages (and continue to do so annually). Others are increasing their minimum rate at a faster pace, like BC and Manitoba. 

Oh good, more anecdotal opinion where facts don’t support.  For example The Business Barometer for BC small businesses shows that confidence as been consistently dropping and BC sits with the second lowest score in the country slightly ahead of Sask as of December of 2019.  .  

 

In addition, 69.1 per cent of BC business owners in July said taxes and regulatory costs are causing major challenges for their business, representing a 1.1 point increase over the previous month.

“July marks the two-year anniversary of BC’s current government. Over that time, small business concerns over taxes and regulatory costs has risen by more than 10 points,” says Richard Truscott, Vice-President, BC and Alberta. “This is clearly a red flag and should come as no surprise to provincial policy makers. Business owners face a multitude of new costs from the BC government, including imposition of the new Employer Health Tax and the rapidly rising minimum wage.”

https://www.cfib-fcei.ca/en/media/business-barometerr-bc

 

This was also reflected in the  BC Chamber of Commerce in the annual Collective Perspective survey that showed that the province’s small and medium-sized businesses feel left behind by current government policies.

http://www.bcchamber.org/collective-perspective-2018-2019-survey-report-0

 

Because of these concerns and businesses that have been struggling MLA Bruce Ralston Minister of Jobs, Trade and Technology, was put in charge to create the Small Business Task Force.  This was to come up with special interest ways to help support small business, from lowering taxes, to reducing the Property Transfer Tax rate to support small business succession, to introduce a lower minimum training wage to offset the high costs of training and lower productivity of those just entering the workforce, implement a training tax credit for inexperienced new hires and Ensure future minimum wage increases are predictable and tied to the Consumer Price Index or other economic indicators for British Columbia to accommodate inflation, as recommended by the Fair Wages Commission.

http://bbot.ca/file/BC-Small-Business-TaskForce-Final-Report.pdf

 

So in conclusion that this myth that raising min wage doesn’t hinder small business well, it was determined, that was a lie.  Here’s a interview from a while ago with democratic nominee Andrew Yang who really got the short end of the stick and his views on raising min wage.  It’s funny listening to him and Dave Rubin discuss the mind boggling logic of how people like yourself just can’t seem connect the dots. 

 

 

 

[bishopshodan]

5 minutes ago, RowdyCanuck said:

Raising minimal wage up is just like turning the heat up on the frog so he doesn't know his cooking.....

raising it , only makes the cost of living go up for everyone and their dollar goes the same distance as before.....

if you can't afford to live in Van or Calgary move to s.k or Manitoba , it's cheaper.....

like you said basic ha

 

Should there be a minimum at all?

 

If so, how do you calculate how much? 

[RowdyCanuck]

3 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

Should there be a minimum at all?

 

If so, how do you calculate how much? 

That's the thing.....you can't really calculate cause it depends on the person, I was raised you work harder you'll make more....

so yea not to be rude but if someone is working at a fast food place well there only going to make maybe 1200 a month( that's a ruff guess) well you can't survive on that but those type of jobs are meant for high school students or for people down on their luck trying to get a better life but I know some people that make it a career manager and so forth but some people are just to lazy to find better work......or some couples have one spouse making extra money that way but dead end jobs arnt meant to support a family....imho I'm sorry if I come across as an ahole and looking down on that type of work but I'm not, I just don't see how a family of four can survive when both parents make mim wage. So my think is, find a better we job.....I grew up in Manitoba but my dad worked pipeline so I know it's painful to work away from your family but sometimes sacrafices have to be made......

 

[bishopshodan]

1 minute ago, RowdyCanuck said:

That's the thing.....you can't really calculate cause it depends on the person, I was raised you work harder you'll make more....

so yea not to be rude but if someone is working at a fast food place well there only going to make maybe 1200 a month( that's a ruff guess) well you can't survive on that but those type of jobs are meant for high school students or for people down on their luck trying to get a better life but I know some people that make it a career manager and so forth but some people are just to lazy to find better work......or some couples have one spouse making extra money that way but dead end jobs arnt meant to support a family....imho I'm sorry if I come across as an ahole and looking down on that type of work but I'm not, I just don't see how a family of four can survive when both parents make mim wage. So my think is, find a better we job.....I grew up in Manitoba but my dad worked pipeline so I know it's painful to work away from your family but sometimes sacrafices have to be made......

 

I get your gist.

 

But there has to be some calculation for min wage if you are going to have one. How is that established, what factors go in to coming up with a fair amount? 

Or, what would happen if it was done away with? 

 

 

 

[Boudrias]

13 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

Should there be a minimum at all?

 

If so, how do you calculate how much? 

Minimum wage or not IMO it is about a family being able to sustain itself. Every year that governments deficit spend they lessen the buying power of what money is brought into the home. It is inflationary and subtle. Politicians don’t want people to truly understand what they are doing. They make promises they cannot pay for and tell voters they will get the money from the ‘rich guys’. That never works as the economy corkscrews downward. The socialist/communists like Sanders always point to the socialist dream countries in Euroland but doesn’t tell you they are broke. The Brits wanted out for a reason.

 

If politicians truly wanted to help the people they would teach financial literacy in the schools. Neither side left or right do this, why? Any citizen with a strong financial understanding cannot be duped by those who want to exploit him. They would ask embarrassing questions of would be leaders who in all reality have trouble running a lemonade stand.

[RowdyCanuck]

5 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

I get your gist.

 

But there has to be some calculation for min wage if you are going to have one. How is that established, what factors go in to coming up with a fair amount? 

Or, what would happen if it was done away with? 

 

 

 

No I agree but it's suppose to be a base wage....

not a starting wage if you know what I mean. 

Companies that make more money pay their people more money....it's also tied to how tough the job is and dangerous it is too. 

Well you ever hear your grandparents say well in my day I could buy this or that for a dime ?

lowering min wage , lowers the cost of living.....

it also makes our money worth more and go further in every day life but it would push people out of the dead end jobs or force them to deal with their choice.....

[Boudrias]

Just now, RowdyCanuck said:

No I agree but it's suppose to be a base wage....

not a starting wage if you know what I mean. 

Companies that make more money pay their people more money....it's also tied to how tough the job is and dangerous it is too. 

Well you ever hear your grandparents say well in my day I could buy this or that for a dime ?

lowering min wage , lowers the cost of living.....

it also makes our money worth more and go further in every day life but it would push people out of the dead end jobs or force them to deal with their choice.....

Any wage is a function of the company’s ability to pay it. Either the company has a high enough margin and revenue stream or it doesn’t. If it doesn’t then it has to take money from other parts of the business to pay for labor. Survivablity then becomes a question. Minimum wage cannot become the standard. People on minimum wage are exploited by all facets of society better organized than they are. Having a clear idea of how business works is a starter.