Ryan Strome Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 @ForsbergTheGreat I really like how you very clearly explained equalization but my friend you are on your own I give up explaining it to hip and Jim. It's Jimmy who really shocks me given his education level. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 31 minutes ago, Boone Jenner said: Within reason everything has up's and downs.. Western Canada has been supporting Eastern Canada long enough and still cant even garnish a right to even have their vote heard. When was the last time the east has put up for equalization payments? to use the last 4 years in perspective to the last 35 with how the west has supported is bogus. Questions to ask, Is this system fair to the west? Why hasn't electoral reform happened? The east shouldn't hold all the cards, parity and fairness should be in the fore front for this country, the pride for diversity can take a back seat. well, Saskatchewan has benefitted greatly from equalization in the past. And Manitoba has always been a have not province, and still are. BC currently does not get any equalization payments either, but there isn't anything like the anger in Alberta over it. So its not the entire west. As a political ploy, stoking anger over equalization is very misleading. It makes it sound like AB "gets nothing" which is far from true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: I didn't quote government stats Alf, I used the actual money transferred and the article explaining how equalization is calculated is pure bean counting, no spin. Thats why I picked them, so we'd all have a real base of info to argue from. No you didn't as ftg pointed out again you're wrong. You pick certain links...there is no doubt in my mind you're one hell of a lawyer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: well, Saskatchewan has benefitted greatly from equalization in the past. And Manitoba has always been a have not province, and still are. BC currently does not get any equalization payments either, but there isn't anything like the anger in Alberta over it. So its not the entire west. As a political ploy, stoking anger over equalization is very misleading. It makes it sound like AB "gets nothing" which is far from true. BC contributes 4 billion not over 20 billion ffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said: @ForsbergTheGreat I really like how you very clearly explained equalization but my friend you are on your own I give up explaining it to hip and Jim. It's Jimmy who really shocks me given his education level. you just don't like to admit AB gets billions back. Look at all of the federal transfers on a per capita basis which I know is a metric you like. Its equivalent on health and social transfers, which is most of the money everyone else gets too. As i pointed out, even if AB got equalization back on a per capita basis, its hardly an amount to separate over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said: No you didn't as ftg pointed out again you're wrong. You pick certain links...there is no doubt in my mind you're one hell of a lawyer. Forsberg is a troll that I have on ignore. I picked facts RS, you can't argue with the actual transfer payments 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Boone Jenner said: And every PM before him, not one person who was running had electoral reform in their parties platform. Neither of the big two, that's for sure. They both have the most to lose from it is probably the biggest reason why Edited October 28, 2019 by aGENT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philthy Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: well, Saskatchewan has benefitted greatly from equalization in the past. And Manitoba has always been a have not province, and still are. BC currently does not get any equalization payments either, but there isn't anything like the anger in Alberta over it. So its not the entire west. As a political ploy, stoking anger over equalization is very misleading. It makes it sound like AB "gets nothing" which is far from true. Its far less, on the same notion they're on route to an even larger downward spiral after having a sustainable economy for years, the fairness rides in that 54 plus billion that east continually get for equalization. Hind sight 50/50 sure Alberta should've looked at investing in other economies, but no one was complaining while oil was up and they were sustainable.I cant speak in regard to all Albertans but I feel they just want the support in fairness that Quebec and Ontario have been offered for the last 10-15 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violator Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Why are we jumping on alberta when the bloc have been rattling the seperation sword since before and after the election? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Boone Jenner said: Its far less, on the same notion they're on route to an even larger downward spiral after having a sustainable economy for years, the fairness rides in that 54 plus billion that east continually get for equalization. Hind sight 50/50 sure Alberta should've looked at investing in other economies, but no one was complaining while oil was up and they were sustainable.I cant speak in regard to all Albertans but I feel they just want the support in fairness that Quebec and Ontario have been offered for the last 10-15 years. There's two big issues with that though. One is the assumption that there's no benefit to Alberta in maintaining equality of services across Canada, which is far from true. One of the main benefits is labour mobility, which conveniently gets forgotten for one thing. Second, most transfer money is fairly distributed back. Alberta gets the same health and social transfer money back as everyone else does, close to 7 billion per year. If you gave them equalization back on the same basis it would be up to ~9 billion. Not really that big of a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, Violator said: Why are we jumping on alberta when the bloc have been rattling the seperation sword since before and after the election? because Wexit is such an epically stupid idea, even worse than Quebec leaving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philthy Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 4 minutes ago, aGENT said: Neither of the big two, that's for sure. They both have the most to lose from it is probably the biggest reason why I'll quote the genius him self. "Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over expecting the same results." This is my frustration, will we see another scandal? Will we have more broken promises? Stay tuned in Canadian politics. It's really unfortunate also that they tell everyone to go and vote, your vote makes a difference when its the same pissing pot every 4 years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 1 minute ago, Boone Jenner said: I'll quote the genius him self. "Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over expecting the same results." This is my frustration, will we see another scandal? Will we have more broken promises? Stay tuned in Canadian politics. It's really unfortunate also that they tell everyone to go and vote, your vote makes a difference when its the same pissing pot every 4 years. Your vote can/does make a difference. Just not as much of one as if we had election reform (which isn't in the best interests of either of the two main parties). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Alberta election cycle: Elect conservatives for decades who do nothing other than whine about Liberals, play the victim and then wonder why the rest of the country doesn’t want to work with them https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/opinion/no-one-should-feel-sorry-for-alberta/article36782945/ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 So how come in the boom times, Alberta isn't investing in diversification? I'm old enough to remember the same BS happened in the 80's. Then the oil companies point fingers, lay everyone off and laugh because their profit margins stay the same. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 18 minutes ago, Boone Jenner said: I'll quote the genius him self. "Insanity: Doing the same thing over and over expecting the same results." This is my frustration, will we see another scandal? Will we have more broken promises? Stay tuned in Canadian politics.It's really unfortunate also that they tell everyone to go and vote, your vote makes a difference when its the same pissing pot every 4 years. 15 minutes ago, aGENT said: Your vote can/does make a difference. Just not as much of one as if we had election reform (which isn't in the best interests of either of the two main parties). I look at it this way: Suppose, for sake of argument, that "Redmonton" elected a Liberal candidate. (I know, it's far-fetched, but bear with me) Unless that MP was a complete neophyte, he or she would be virtually guaranteed a cabinet position and a platform from which to promote an Alberta friendly agenda. Instead, Albertans went all-in on the Trudeau hating and as a result, don't have a seat at the adult table. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 3 minutes ago, RUPERTKBD said: I look at it this way: Suppose, for sake of argument, that "Redmonton" elected a Liberal candidate. (I know, it's far-fetched, but bear with me) Unless that MP was a complete neophyte, he or she would be virtually guaranteed a cabinet position and a platform from which to promote an Alberta friendly agenda. Instead, Albertans went all-in on the Trudeau hating and as a result, don't have a seat at the adult table. Yet people in Quebec keep voting Bloc. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 39 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: you just don't like to admit AB gets billions back. Look at all of the federal transfers on a per capita basis which I know is a metric you like. Its equivalent on health and social transfers, which is most of the money everyone else gets too. As i pointed out, even if AB got equalization back on a per capita basis, its hardly an amount to separate over. Jim Alberta gave 49 billion and received back 22 billion for a difference of 27 billion in 2016. 38 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: Forsberg is a troll that I have on ignore. I picked facts RS, you can't argue with the actual transfer payments Same answer as above 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUPERTKBD Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Just now, Ghostsof1915 said: Yet people in Quebec keep voting Bloc. Honestly G, I've stopped trying to guess why people vote the way they do. My first election was 40 years ago and I'm no closer to figuring it out.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancaster Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 I think the issue goes beyond just equalization or whatever monetary transfer. It is the fact that each province is more keen on focusing on itself rather than Canada as whole. Not saying provincial issues should be made secondary, but when you have Alberta being an energy rich location and the provinces with access to markets being more adversarial, it's easy to feel alienated. More pipeline to the BC coast... BC says no. Pipeline going East.... Ontario and Quebec says no. Maybe have oil sent to the port of Churchill.... Manitoba says no. I mean each has their own risks, but instead of both sides plus the feds actually sitting at the table hammering out the best deal possible, they're all acting like inexperienced business owners trying to scrape for every single nickle available because they are unable to see the big picture. Or worse, just outright "no" with some vague rationale that is easily debunked with like 5 minutes of empirical research. Responsibility/ownership/control between provinces and the federal government isn't anything new and it affects many aspect of Canada. I mean, there's a reason the SEC in the US are way more effective than Canada and it's OSC, BCSC, etc. Each province in Canada doesn't want to share anything with each other. The system is so entrenched now that there's nothing that can really be done anymore. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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