Elias Pettersson Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 2 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said: This. Probably the worst managed team in the entire NHL. And it’s been going on for decades so it’s not just these guys. Matthews and Mariner are overpaid, Tavares was a rich contract but as a UFA he had all the leverage. Nylander’s contract is a joke. Plus on top of all of that they literally have only one defenseman signed past this year. They will need to sign and/or trade for an entire defensive group in the summer. What a joke. Just brutal. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 3 hours ago, coastal.view said: rich owners should make little difference now given the salary cap Good rich owners can invest more into scouting and player development, plus having a good farm organization. I don't know if Toronto does well by their minor league organizations or not, I'm just mentioning that rich owners can help, if they know what their doing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 5 minutes ago, gurn said: Good rich owners can invest more into scouting and player development, plus having a good farm organization. I don't know if Toronto does well by their minor league organizations or not, I'm just mentioning that rich owners can help, if they know what their doing. All true. Plus I'm not seeing a ton of guys going to a team like Ottawa where there's a good chance their paycheck will bounce because the owner's a bum. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 Management buckles. It's not just their GM, though he's a big part of it. He's got people above him and things still happen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted October 29, 2019 Author Share Posted October 29, 2019 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Coconuts said: Management buckles. It's not just their GM, though he's a big part of it. He's got people above him and things still happen. maybe the assessment of the toronto situation needs a different perspective they had a shanaplan in place it did not account for signing the top ufa in an off season tavares fell into their lap they could not say no to a hometown talent who wanted to return to play for them but he cost them a bundle in salary and cap space which distorted badly their rebuild (and the shanaplan) top brass made silly naive statements such as... we will retain all our top talent.. and likely privately made those statements as serious commitments to key players and then those statements were leveraged against them when that went very badly and they got a lot of bad press with nylander the organization blinked and caved they chose to simply do what it took to re-sign their remaining 2 rfas hoping it would change the salary market in the nhl hence justifying their approach that did not happen (no one thought the leafs approach to contract values was wise) and they seem now to be a ship largely steered by incompetents? or maybe along the way with and/or after the nylander signing they were cynical in deciding to accept that their distorted salary structure would not result in a championship team and as they saw with the raptors with kwahi, if you get the key superstar(s), you can sell out every ticket the raptors did not expect to win the championship with that acquisition but they saw what it did to market share, television viewership, and local fan support which a championship win caused to really crest maybe the leafs are simply signing their top talent to sell tickets and capture larger market share to partly satisfy a fan base that can be rabid about having some of the best nhl players even if that does not result in the best team maybe they no longer care about having the best team and have largely abandoned the original shanaplan i hear very little about the shanaplan since tavares was signed the leafs have a curious history about their rebuilds they never ever stick to them they always try to accelerate them or find an easy out there is just too much money to be made in that hockey market and they simply cannot wait the necessary time to complete a proper rebuild but need to cash in sooner and are prepared to con their fan base in the process maybe we will see leaf jerseys thrown on the ice sooner this go round once the fan base there wakes up and sees what has really happened? there is something wrong with the culture there they believe they can buy the best management buy the best coach that their financial strength means they can buy what they need and players have adopted that approach in relation to their own compensation as that is the top priority in that organization more important then dedication, integrity, loyalty, team camaraderie - the non monetary things that seems to drive real fans of team sport i dunno maybe i'm just spit balling too much in this post Edited October 29, 2019 by coastal.view 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khay Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 Toronto's star players probably feel that they deserve a big piece of the pie (profit) as Toronto does generate a lot more profit/revenue compared to most other NHL cities. For example, let's say an all-star caliber player on any team contributes about 2% to the total revenue generated. If Toronto generates say 1 billion dollars of revenue then, this star player deserves 20 million dollars. But of course, with the cap and parity and all, he won't be able to take 20 million so he settles for maximum that he can get (the upper ceiling is set at 12.5 by McDavid). On the other hand, Vancouver may generate say half of what Toronto generates, so 500 million dollars. A star player of the same caliber should get 10 million dollars (2% of 500 million dollars). So that's kind of in line with what one would consider a discount. And of course, there are players like McDavid who is on a level on his own and probably contributes more than 2% to the total revenue so in his case, he set his own salary, which in my opinion, was a discount for what he brings to that team. Anyhow, that's probably not the only reason why but probably one of the reasons why Toronto players don't want to take a pay cut. in their opinion, they are already taking a pay cut in terms of proportion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapshot85 Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 (edited) My thoughts.... is if the players trying to screw the team.... put the team first... Its simple... trade them to the worst team in the league..... If they want to try for a cup... or love toronto... the will not be happy... how does New jersey sound .. bye bye. Next guy wont hardball.... If they did this with nylander..... Marner wouldnt have hard balled Edited October 29, 2019 by Snapshot85 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the grinder Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 because kyle dumbass just had to have john Tavares that is why they are screwed , he thinks it is a basketball roster where you pay 5 guys all the money and fill the bench with guys making league minimum 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toyotasfan Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 They could still be successful with Tavares, Mathews and Marner. There is nothing that makes sense about the Nylander contract. You can buy 2 big defensive players at 3million apiece and the team would be way better off. This is a soft team that doesn’t know how to play defence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted October 29, 2019 Author Share Posted October 29, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Toyotasfan said: They could still be successful with Tavares, Mathews and Marner. There is nothing that makes sense about the Nylander contract. You can buy 2 big defensive players at 3million apiece and the team would be way better off. This is a soft team that doesn’t know how to play defence. define successful and hockey is a team game that requires reasonable team depth not sure how a team can be properly structured when half the payroll is put into the pockets of 4 players since a team roster is 23 players the other 19 players have to be fit into the other half of the cap it likely means the others are less then average quality cuz you generally get what you pay for yet those top 4 eat up what? 20 minutes or so per game there are 5 non goalie playing positions on a hockey team a game is 60 minutes x 5 = 300 minutes of playing time to be filled 4 players get half the cap to cover about 80 minutes of those 300 not sure how that allocation of pay to playing time makes any sense when 2/3 of the playing time is filled by likely less then average talent it's a strange approach to team building by the leafs Edited October 29, 2019 by coastal.view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Buzzsaw* Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 10 hours ago, coastal.view said: what the past 1 year has clearly shown to nhl fans is that top notch nhl talent require a premium in contract value to play for the leafs this problem, which appears to be on par with what many players require to play for the oilers and jets, is puzzling the centre of the universe is not able to attract quality talent at fair market value contracts is the city that awful to live in? are the fan there that intolerable? is mike babcock that demanding of a coach? is the past half century performance of that franchise that big of a stain? so many quality nhl players are born and raised in ontario and one would think they'd be happy to return "home" to play for the leafs but this really does not appear to be the case despite my comment above, even mcdavid reportedly refused a higher value contract from the oilers and insisted on a team friendly aav of 12.5 million we hear none of this coming from the better leaf players looking for answers here our local team is able to sign good players at team sensible value contracts leafs are not please explain It all started with the contract with Wee Willie. The Laffs should have just unloaded him to another team for some defensive prospects. With the money saved they could sign Marner and Mathews and still have money to keep some of the defense they lost to free agency. Dubas really must have flunked out math in primary school... it really shouldn't have been tough to do the calculations... but somehow he forgot to add $7 mill to the total. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sassbs Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 Toronto fans are consistently planning paradE routes, and I am convinced the owners don’t give 2 f’s at all. They raise ticket prices every year and the fans are so relentless they will sell out every single game! No real urgency on the owners for damage repair. They sign a couple big names, see a couple of players dominate the stats and the fans salivate over it. win win. The leafs will never win a cup in our life times. Not under the current management/owners. Way off topic, basically to answer OP, leafs suck!!! thank you 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainhorvat Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 11 hours ago, Alflives said: It's the LOSER LEAFS, so who really cares? Just so long as they suck forever, and their fans suffer, that's all that really matters. #screwtheloserleafsandtheirsmellycity. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainhorvat Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 (edited) Simple answer to this is that thr drafting low character guys that are more concerned about individual success and demand to be paid for it. The Toronto media drives thr egos even higher only to make it worse. Edited October 29, 2019 by captainhorvat 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UFCanuck Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 They are taking advantage of Dumbass. They should’ve kept a guy like Lou lamoreillo as Gm. Nylander would either be traded, still on holdout, or signed for a million less. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 Alf LOVES this thread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tortorella's Rant Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 Cuz they're a big fat market that can afford any player, any price, and they obviously pay up.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted October 29, 2019 Author Share Posted October 29, 2019 46 minutes ago, Tortorella's Rant said: Cuz they're a big fat market that can afford any player, any price, and they obviously pay up.. but there is still a thing called the salary cap that limits what a team can pay to its player roster that evens the field between the teams paying a premium to some players means the team overall is hampered in building solid depth throughout their roster compared to most other teams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Industrious1 Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) I think it was a different culture under Lou, but as soon as he left...... the players all seen dollar signs with Dubas in charge. Edited October 30, 2019 by Industrious1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rekker Posted October 30, 2019 Share Posted October 30, 2019 (edited) But, but. Overpaid? Says who? The media all applauded the deals. JT was a hometown discount, AM was a bargain and so was Nylander. Edited October 30, 2019 by rekker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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