Elevating each other. Teammates.

[danjr]

Looking at the history of a few great hockey teams.  There are some common threads emerging with our young Vancouver Canucks.  In the mid 80's a few players transformed a team, they played for the Edmonton Oilers.  The catalyst of this was Wayne of course.  We all know of his elite talent level.  What he also brought was elevation to his teammates.  What is elevation and how can it be quantified in relation to those around you.

First you have to look into practices.  When you have an elite talent going against you in drills you learn by watching and competing against.  This also reflects in goaltending, defence and offence.    An elite shooter will elevate a goaltenders reaction time and anticipation.  Elite skaters will force D-men to think and react quicker to movement changes and shifty tactics.  Offensively elite playmakers will teach fellow players how to create those openings and get shots off quicker and more accurately.

Another example of a great elite player was of course Mario.  He did the same thing with his team in the 90's.  Very similarly with Edmonton Pittsburgh kept the same goaltenders and developed them.  Sure back in the late 80's early 90's the averages were horrible, but these goalies elevated.  Surely in each case it took a few years to get everything to work.  It did for each of these teams.  I'm not saying that we have a player or two who will be regarded as one of the greatest ever.  Elements of their games are elite though.

Which brings me back to the elite elements elevating the rest of the team.  We have a young D-man with elite skating and playmaking ability.  We have an amazing shooter in Brock and an Elite talent in Skating and play making.  I think that the dividends of the past few years are now showing tangible effects of that.  Looking at Markstrom I think he is one of the best indicators of that inward elevation.  I can also see hints of it within some of our veteran defensive core.  The future is definitely going to be interesting.

What are your thoughts on how internal competition has elevated our team.

(I could have gone deeper with statistics and focusing on work ethic, but that would have made for a long dry read)

[IBatch]

This team is special.  I think any long time fan can feel that.  It’s not going to be all roses going forward but it starts at the top - and that’s GMJB.   He’s put his footprint all over this team.  Only Edler, Tanev and Horvat remain, the rest is his brain child.   And he’s also got his footprint on them with his good signings. 

 

Wayne and Mario could turn a plug into a 30 goal scorer - just like McDavid has - is doing.   We don’t have anyone like that on the team.  Maybe EP can do it maybe he can’t but he’s definitely the closest - Miller is having a career year so far.   Not sure what the purpose of this thread is but I will say I’m the happiest I’ve been as a fan since we went to the final last time .... and that I feel like we are currently witnessing history in the making.   Since Horvat was named the Captain all is right in Canuck land.   JVs in the top six and killing it, and all the guys TG went with are making him look like a genius too.  

[NUCKER67]

The Sedins have always been great examples of hard work and perserverence, but they played a very cerebral game, had a different style.

 

I think the culture started to change with Beagle. Workhorse, and probably in better shape than any of his team mates. Bo also has great work ethic. Pettersson and Hughes want to be the best, super competitive. I really like the players Benning has brought in - Beagle, Roussel, Schaller, Motte, Pearson, Leivo, Benn, Myers and Ferland. With Miller, he might be a revelation. Miller-Pettersson-Boeser might become the best line in the league. I'm also glad they didn't trade Jake, starting to see what he can bring. Players have bought in, they are now a team, and I see no reason for them to slow down.

[Rick Blight]

19 minutes ago, danjr said:

Looking at the history of a few great hockey teams.  There are some common threads emerging with our young Vancouver Canucks.  In the mid 80's a few players transformed a team, they played for the Edmonton Oilers.  The catalyst of this was Wayne of course.  We all know of his elite talent level.  What he also brought was elevation to his teammates.  What is elevation and how can it be quantified in relation to those around you.

First you have to look into practices.  When you have an elite talent going against you in drills you learn by watching and competing against.  This also reflects in goaltending, defence and offence.    An elite shooter will elevate a goaltenders reaction time and anticipation.  Elite skaters will force D-men to think and react quicker to movement changes and shifty tactics.  Offensively elite playmakers will teach fellow players how to create those openings and get shots off quicker and more accurately.

Another example of a great elite player was of course Mario.  He did the same thing with his team in the 90's.  Very similarly with Edmonton Pittsburgh kept the same goaltenders and developed them.  Sure back in the late 80's early 90's the averages were horrible, but these goalies elevated.  Surely in each case it took a few years to get everything to work.  It did for each of these teams.  I'm not saying that we have a player or two who will be regarded as one of the greatest ever.  Elements of their games are elite though.

Which brings me back to the elite elements elevating the rest of the team.  We have a young D-man with elite skating and playmaking ability.  We have an amazing shooter in Brock and an Elite talent in Skating and play making.  I think that the dividends of the past few years are now showing tangible effects of that.  Looking at Markstrom I think he is one of the best indicators of that inward elevation.  I can also see hints of it within some of our veteran defensive core.  The future is definitely going to be interesting.

What are your thoughts on how internal competition has elevated our team.

(I could have gone deeper with statistics and focusing on work ethic, but that would have made for a long dry read)

What you are saying is all very true but I think it goes substantially beyond this as to why. In Wayne and Mario's case their teams knew that the offensive side of the game was going to be taken care of, kind of felt like they had a 3-0 lead even before the game started. This allowed teammates to not overextend themselves in trying to do too much for an offensively challenged team. In other words they could play to their own strengths whatever they might be to make the team more successful. The offensively gifted players elevated their game and the defensively minded players could just concentrate on playing that role.

 

I think there is always a danger when players try to play beyond their own strengths to compensate for team shortcomings and that rarely works IMHO. As you mentioned, the lessons learned watching and practicing with these elite talents is immeasurable and certainly some players will be much better for the opportunity. I do worry though when I see an offensively challenged player like Chris Tanev trying to emulate a Quinn Hughes as that is simply not where his strengths lie and he does not need to fill that role for the team to be successful.

 

Good post and thought process by the way.

[DADDYROCK]

Sometimes it doesn't take much to elevate your team, even one or two NHL caliber players can do wonders.

Considering we have been hosed by the LOTTO DRAFT an unprecedented four consecutive year,GMJB has done very well at the alternative drafting of our team.

We all hope for the best from the Canucks and with hard work and team work we can win our first STANLEY CUP,

The whole province of B.C. will love it, I'm sure.

[Fanuck]

I would like to see the team sustain the current pace (winning %) for a span of 20 games. 

After that I'd like to see what they do for 20 more games.

Then, I'd like to see how they respond to the inevitable injuries to key personnel which will no doubt occur.

Then we can revisit this. 

[the grinder]

sure those teams you mentioned were greatly skilled and such  but you know what else it took those teams to become great   , gritty hard nosed players  and a supporting cast , skill only gets you so far , it is grit and toughness that carries you further down the road  ,  go back and look at the trades  the oilers and penguins made before they won cups  all acquired grit and support players 

[brownky]

13 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

I would like to see the team sustain the current pace (winning %) for a span of 20 games. 

After that I'd like to see what they do for 20 more games.

Then, I'd like to see how they respond to the inevitable injuries to key personnel which will no doubt occur.

Then we can revisit this. 

If they do/Maintain this after 60 games the chances are good the playoffs might be in the picture.

[brownky]

5 minutes ago, the grinder said:

sure those teams you mentioned were greatly skilled and such  but you know what else it took those teams to become great   , gritty hard nosed players  and a supporting cast , skill only gets you so far , it is grit and toughness that carries you further down the road  ,  go back and look at the trades  the oilers and penguins made before they won cups  all acquired grit and support players 

Jay Beagle won that cup for Washington.

 

Knowing you have a guy who can set the tone against the very best the NHL has to offer on every given night, knowing full well that his engine is turning at 100% and seeing it.

 

He'll do his job. Now "scorers do theirs". Guys like that don't grow on trees. Jim made an extremely good signing picking him up, I said as much at the time. He can score timely goals and wear them down. We saw it in our run, the scorers get run by the grinders. The whistles go away. So if your bottom six can perform and your top six can handle the brutality, you'll do well in the postseason.

 

If you're built like the leafs, you're one-and-done every year.

[Dr. Crossbar]

First, you have two things going on in your post (especially in how you framed the last question) ... 1. Elite talent as elevation 2. Internal competition as elevation. I'd even say a third ... 3. Elite talent as internal competition.

 

In my view, these need to be separated.

 

We saw with the additions of Boeser and Pettersson, elite talent pulling everyone forward. Both of them forced linemates to play at their level and reach higher. Because of that, it exposed who could and couldn't elevate their game to that level. It also exposed the need for players who could play at that level.

 

Their elevation became the new standard and we went out and got players (Miller and Ferland) who could meet that standard, which elevated the entire roster. We're seeing the effects of that now with everyone rising to a similar, elevated level. 

 

Hughes is also doing it but the additions of Myers and Benn, along with Hughes, are elevating our entire D corps to a new level. It's not just Hughes. As he matures, and gains experience, his play will be the standard on D where others will be elevated.

 

The internal competition aspect began with Benning's approach to youth years earlier. Also with veterans. That culture was established early. No one would get a free ride and everyone had to earn their spot. And we've seen that from year to year. Especially as we've gotten better.

 

That commitment to internal competition has continued to elevate the entire team. It has also kept players sharp and made them better. With more prospects in the wings and doing well, guys have to play at their best or they'll be replaced. This maintains the elevation as more prospects compete for spots. 

 

It's interesting to look at Tryamkin in this regard. When he was here, we were just beginning to instill that culture of internal competition. Yet he wanted a spot and top minutes without competing for them.

 

Now we're at a higher, elevated level and it's going to be even more of a challenge to simply gift him a spot. In some regard, he does have to earn like the others. The reality is, he'll need to reach higher to a level that didn't exist when he was here before. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out.

 

The elite talent we now have (Boeser, Pettersson, Hughes especially) at an elevated level not only makes us more competitive as a team but serves to create and motivate competition from within. Not only on-ice play but also in work ethic, conditioning, mindset, health, learning, desire to win and how they approach life to achieve results.

 

Just look at the Sedins and their effect. They sparked a different type of competitiveness among teammates to be better people. And it's this type of competitiveness that bonds teammates on a deeper level. It's elevation on a life level. There was an upward ripple effect from Linden to the Sedins to now Bo, Boes, Pettersson, and Hughes. And it's also interesting to see how the focus on character was a form of elevation as well.

[N7Nucks]

I want to bring up another really good point, a team plays better when they have players in the top 6 that ARE top 6 players. Last season we had 3. One a rookie, the other a injured sophomore and the third was Bo Horvat. Now we have 5 players in the top 6 that are legit top 6 players. Virtanen I think we can all agree is not a bonafide top 6 talent, maybe this season is his coming out party but we need to wait and see on that.

 

Sometimes the best way to have a good team is to have good players play on that team. Benning revamped the forward group and revamped the defense. Benn, Myers and Hughes have been major contributors for this team. Miller's impact goes without saying but he is having more of an impact on the team than I'd say Boeser and Petey are. Pearson and Bo have been nothing short of fantastic together on that 2nd line. Defensively responsible and a handful on offence. I'd say Miller is elevating this team more than the guys you mentioned in the OP. Miller and Bo are both MVP candidates for this team so far and it's not even close.

 

I think the role players on this team deserve a lot of credit. Beagle is a dog out there. Guy commands respect. Miller is a beast. I love the stability guy's like Benn and Stecher have on defense, healthy Tanev going a long way too. Schaller has played really good so far. Sutter is healthy and looking good. These guys most weren't a fan of bringing in at first cause "rEbUiLd" have been instrumental in turning this team into what it is, and their guidance will pay huge dividends when the stars fully come into their own.

[danjr]

31 minutes ago, the grinder said:

sure those teams you mentioned were greatly skilled and such  but you know what else it took those teams to become great   , gritty hard nosed players  and a supporting cast , skill only gets you so far , it is grit and toughness that carries you further down the road  ,  go back and look at the trades  the oilers and penguins made before they won cups  all acquired grit and support players 

I would have loved to touch on this as well as bringing stats into it.  Probably could have made this a very lengthy article.  At that point though it harms people actually taking the time to read it and react to it.
Surely I do respect the aspect that those kind of players bring to the game.  So many of these guys become local legends, but not the recognition they deserve for the efforts they bring day in and day out.  Especially in the playoffs.

[tas]

I think a lot of it boils down to belief. these guys aren't idiots -- they can read a depth chart as well as any of us. if they look around the room and think to themselves, "we don't have a prayer ..." things aren't going to turn out well. when the team makes key additions and puts together a strong roster that allows the guys to think, "you know, we've got as good a chance as anyone ..." it hugely impacts the collective confidence and determination of the group. 

[BrockBoester]

I think our "big 4" of Petey, Brock, Bo and Hughes (and Markstrom in an inspirational sense) all help to elevate the game of the other teammates on the ice.

 

It's a great time to be a Canucks fan.

 

Back on the wagon, 2011 fans!

[Nuxfanabroad]

Good thread, & lots of positive posts. Almost all trends with the team are pretty sweet, these days.

 

The one potential prob lies with the cap. When Roussel returns, appears the question now is, who goes?

 

I've read the team could incur pretty significant rookie bonuses. Has anyone here gone over this, & is satisfied JB can work it? The Lu-recapture crap was so bogus, & it appears LE is staying mighty late at the party, as well. Wouldn't surprise me if one or two names must exit, (merely for middling picks), to shave away some cap-expense.

[IBatch]

39 minutes ago, tas said:

I think a lot of it boils down to belief. these guys aren't idiots -- they can read a depth chart as well as any of us. if they look around the room and think to themselves, "we don't have a prayer ..." things aren't going to turn out well. when the team makes key additions and puts together a strong roster that allows the guys to think, "you know, we've got as good a chance as anyone ..." it hugely impacts the collective confidence and determination of the group. 

Great point.  Right now I’m sure everyone is gaining confidence.  Also Millers play is influencing EPs and BBS, the same way that Hughes calm smooth break outs are the defense.  Everyone learns and plays off of each other - confidence plays a huge role in this.  Right now this team is playing confident hockey - the longer it stays, the longer we get to enjoy it.   So far we’ve been all over the scoresheet and that’s a sign of a good confident team. 

[Snapshot85]

I REALLY REALLY ENJOY KICKING THE @$%# OUT OF THE KINGS.

 

IT MAKES ME SMILE EVERY TIME AND BRINGS IMENSE JOY TO MY LIFE.

 

TONIGHT WILL BE NO DIFFRENT

 

THANKS DREW FOR MORE MOTIVATION .... US CANUCKS WILL NOW PROCEDED TO PUT A MYERS SIZE SKATE STRAIGHT UP YOUR @$$ TONIGHT!

 

ENJOY!

COURTESY YOUR FREINDLY NEIGHBORHOOD CANUCKS FANS!!

 

 

.... Darn wrong thread

Edited October 30, 2019 by Snapshot85

[Rick Blight]

1 hour ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Good thread, & lots of positive posts. Almost all trends with the team are pretty sweet, these days.

 

The one potential prob lies with the cap. When Roussel returns, appears the question now is, who goes?

 

I've read the team could incur pretty significant rookie bonuses. Has anyone here gone over this, & is satisfied JB can work it? The Lu-recapture crap was so bogus, & it appears LE is staying mighty late at the party, as well. Wouldn't surprise me if one or two names must exit, (merely for middling picks), to shave away some cap-expense.

Nux, they do have a pretty large exposure for performance bonuses this year but the good news (sorta) is that they can be carried over to the following year and at least buys us a little more time. We have an exposure of $4.55M this year and $3.7M for next year with the players currently under contract.

Potential Bonuses Performance Bonuses that players on the active roster are eligible to achieve. A team can exceed the salary cap due to performance bonuses, but they carry over to the following season.

$4,550,000

$3,700,000

$0

$0

Edited October 30, 2019 by Rick Blight

[Nuxfanabroad]

2 minutes ago, Rick Blight said:

Nux, they do have a pretty large exposure for performance bonuses this year but the good news (sorta) is that they can be carried over to the following year and at least buys us a little more time. We have an expsure of $4.55M this year and $3.7M for next year with the players currently under contract.

Potential Bonuses Performance Bonuses that players on the active roster are eligible to achieve. A team can exceed the salary cap due to performance bonuses, but they carry over to the following season.

$4,550,000

$3,700,000

$0

$0

With such notions(the way this league is run), I really don't like them kicking the can down the road. They should try & stay compliant every season(not pushing bonuses into future). If it were a US franchise, you'd see players loaned to France, skin rashes, or some random evasion of contract/cap duty. Anything to dirty dance around strict boundaries.

 

But maybe these dbl standards are FORCing the team to be more disciplined in expense, & efficient with their draft picks? We appear to have a number of high-end kids that'll be arriving on ELC-gigs. Serendipity, or evolution? As fans, our impatience might dictate that we shouldn't trade away guys who are fitting in well; but a GM should view this matter from(perhaps?) a 2-5 season perspective.

[Rick Blight]

19 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

With such notions(the way this league is run), I really don't like them kicking the can down the road. They should try & stay compliant every season(not pushing bonuses into future). If it were a US franchise, you'd see players loaned to France, skin rashes, or some random evasion of contract/cap duty. Anything to dirty dance around strict boundaries.

 

But maybe these dbl standards are FORCing the team to be more disciplined in expense, & efficient with their draft picks? We appear to have a number of high-end kids that'll be arriving on ELC-gigs. Serendipity, or evolution? As fans, our impatience might dictate that we shouldn't trade away guys who are fitting in well; but a GM should view this matter from(perhaps?) a 2-5 season perspective.

I concur carrying over performance bonuses would not be the ideal situation and I am sure the management team is assessing the potential for payouts as the season progresses and taking the appropriate actions for cap purposes. Right now the $4.55M exposure for this year is attributable to 3 players as follows:

 

Pettersson - $2.85M

Hughes - $850K

Gaudette - $850K

 

The link below shows how players can earn their bonuses.

 

https://puckpedia.com/salary-cap/entry-level-performance-bonuses

 

 

 

 

Edited October 30, 2019 by Rick Blight