10pavelbure96 Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 Sorry I've been living under a rock. Is the expansion draft this upcoming off season or the one after?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuckster19 Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, 10pavelbure96 said: Sorry I've been living under a rock. Is the expansion draft this upcoming off season or the one after?? The one after. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 Current team Expansion Reality (I think?) Player (7) Protected Exempt Unprotected Ericksson……………………...………………………...…………………………No...……………...……..Ericksson Boeser……………………………………………..Boeser Horvat...…………………………………………...Horvat Miller...……………………………………………..Miller Sutter...………...…...…………………………......……………………………….No...………...…………..Sutter Pearson...…...…………......…………………...………………………………….No......…………...……..Pearson Baertschi...……………………………………......…………………...…………..No...…………………….Baertschi Beagle...…………………………………………………………………………….No...…………………….Beagle Schaller...…………………………...………………………………………………No...…………………….Schaller Leivo………………………………………………………………………………...No...……………...……..Leivo Virtanen...………………………………………….Virtanen Pettersson...……………………………………….Pettersson Gaudette...…………………………………………Gaudette Roussel...…………………………………………………………………………...No...……………………..Roussel Ferland……………………………………………..Ferland Motte...……………………………………...……………………………………….No...……………………..Motte Goldobin................................................................................................................................................Goldobin Player (3) Protected Exempt Unprotected Myers...……………………………………………Myers Edler...…………………………………………………………………………………………………......…...Edler................will be a UFA and 34 years of age Tanev...…………………………………………………………………………………………...…………….Tanev Hughes...………………………………………………………………………….Hughes Benn...…………………………………………………………………………………………………………..Benn................will be a UFA and 33 years of age Stecher..............................................................Stecher Joulevi…………………………………………......Juolevi Brisebois...............................................................................................................................................Brisebois Sautner..................................................................................................................................................Sautner Tryamkin ......................................................................................................Tryamkin* Goalies (1) Protected Exempt Unprotected Markstrom ..........................................................................................................................................Markstrom Demko.................................................................Demko DiPietro..........................................................................................................DiPietro My understanding is that Tryamkin is safe, because he has been in Europe.....Not 100% sure on that one???? To me, this leaves only Tanev and Markstrom as the only truly above average players exposed for the draft..............what do you want to do??? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 (edited) 10 hours ago, Snapshot85 said: First of all if you read my OP I said he earned it Second no one said hes greedy. Third. Yes its a buisness.... but alot of these guys care far more about winning than money.... you dont become pro by being money driven its love of the game and winning . In every sport there have been numerous times players gave sweetheart deals to play for the team they want and help make them successful.... they want to win! So what exactly is BULL ? Your topic title is bull$&!#. It reads like a buzzfeed hook and implies that either he's "team oriented" and willing to take less or that he's "greedy" and is more interested in money than taking less on a competitive team. You didn't have didn't have to write the word greedy in your op at all because your title already implied it. Your title implies that he's one or the other when it's never that simple in professional sports and I took issue with that. And yes, part of becoming a pro is absolutely money driven. Most hockey players genuinely love the game, but it's naive to think that these guys aren't money driven too. Guys wanna win, absolutely. But if they didn't want to get paid too getting both sides to agree on contract terms would be a helluva lot easier. "In every sport there have been numerous times players gave sweetheart deals to play for the team they want and help make them successful.... they want to win!". This ties in with why I take issue with your title. There are guys who take sweetheart deals, but not doing so doesn't mean a guy doesn't care about winning or that he isn't a team guy. Wanting fair market value doesn't make you greedy or any less invested in team success. Guys who take these deals aren't the norm and it shouldn't be expected that players take sweetheart, team friendly deals. Would it be nice? Absolutely. Should fans or management expect it? Of course not. This is your op. "So I have been pondering Jacob Markstrom .... and it seems to me alot depends on this question...... of Markstrom wants max $$ for performance ( hey he earned it ) then ultimately he probably will be moved at some point... But.... If Marky is a Glory Guy.... and sees the canucks will be entering thier window in a few years... looks at his age... and decides he wants a cup more than $$ and offer canucks such a good contract even with a NMC/NTC they cant refuse.... Well like I said .. is Marky a $$ Guy or a Glory Guy?" What the hell is max dollars? He's not a McDavid, he won't be in that cap stratosphere. He'll want to be paid what him and his agent feels is fair though. What is fair? That's what both sides need to negotiate. Generally there's a bit of give and take in contract negotiations. He's played well, but he hasn't been Carey Price or Braden Holtby. Markstrom wanting to be paid fairly doesn't have to mean he'd be moved eventually. He's not and wouldn't be the only guy with a cap hit on the team. That's not all on him. If Marky's a "glory guy" he'll take less for a chance to win? Again, that's ridiculous. He's a pending ufa and this is probably his last shot to get a sizable contract. Sure, he'll have to weigh that against where he wants to play as that's a reality in the cap world but that's an unfair way of looking at it. Players looking out for themselves doesn't usually mean they're not interested in winning too. And then you repeat your buzzfeed style title at the end, a title that doesn't paint a very fair picture of Markstrom. Edited November 3, 2019 by Coconuts 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said: Current team Expansion Reality (I think?) Player (7) Protected Exempt Unprotected Ericksson……………………...………………………...…………………………No...……………...……..Ericksson Boeser……………………………………………..Boeser Horvat...…………………………………………...Horvat Miller...……………………………………………..Miller Sutter...………...…...…………………………......……………………………….No...………...…………..Sutter Pearson...…...…………......…………………...………………………………….No......…………...……..Pearson Baertschi...……………………………………......…………………...…………..No...…………………….Baertschi Beagle...…………………………………………………………………………….No...…………………….Beagle Schaller...…………………………...………………………………………………No...…………………….Schaller Leivo………………………………………………………………………………...No...……………...……..Leivo Virtanen...………………………………………….Virtanen Pettersson...……………………………………….Pettersson Gaudette...…………………………………………Gaudette Roussel...…………………………………………………………………………...No...……………………..Roussel Ferland……………………………………………..Ferland Motte...……………………………………...……………………………………….No...……………………..Motte Goldobin................................................................................................................................................Goldobin Player (3) Protected Exempt Unprotected Myers...……………………………………………Myers Edler...…………………………………………………………………………………………………......…...Edler................will be a UFA and 34 years of age Tanev...…………………………………………………………………………………………...…………….Tanev Hughes...………………………………………………………………………….Hughes Benn...…………………………………………………………………………………………………………..Benn................will be a UFA and 33 years of age Stecher..............................................................Stecher Joulevi…………………………………………......Juolevi Brisebois...............................................................................................................................................Brisebois Sautner..................................................................................................................................................Sautner Tryamkin ......................................................................................................Tryamkin* Goalies (1) Protected Exempt Unprotected Markstrom ..........................................................................................................................................Markstrom Demko.................................................................Demko DiPietro..........................................................................................................DiPietro My understanding is that Tryamkin is safe, because he has been in Europe.....Not 100% sure on that one???? To me, this leaves only Tanev and Markstrom as the only truly above average players exposed for the draft..............what do you want to do??? nice chart maybe you should delete from your chart every player who no longer is under contract to the team at the time of expansion then we all can see clearly who will be left exposed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 (edited) You can’t blame a guy for wanting to get paid in what will be his only big money contract. Both in term and dollars. On the open market, his salary is going to start with a 5 at least. There is no rational thought process where he signs for a big discount here without a NMC. Without it, he is actually increasing his chance that he gets picked up against his will during expansion as they would want him more if he was on a value contract. This is a situation where we are just going to have to accept probably losing him for nothing in the near future and not worrying about it. Maybe we have to sign a cheap veteran back up to help Demko transition to a starter while DiPietro is still developing. If we signed Markstrom for a high dollar, short term two year contract, maybe we could end up keeping him by virtue of him being just too expensive (and protecting Demko)... but that would impact signing Petterson and Hughes, and Markstrom has no reason to go for it. Edited November 3, 2019 by Provost 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainhorvat Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 Marky will be resigned to a 4yr 26mill contract extension and Demko will take over as starter in Markys final year of that contract. Jim Benning will send a 2nd rounder or B level prospect to Seattle so they dont claim any of our goalies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapshot85 Posted November 3, 2019 Author Share Posted November 3, 2019 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Coconuts said: Your topic title is bull$&!#. It reads like a buzzfeed hook and implies that either he's "team oriented" and willing to take less or that he's "greedy" and is more interested in money than taking less on a competitive team. You didn't have didn't have to write the word greedy in your op at all because your title already implied it. Your title implies that he's one or the other when it's never that simple in professional sports and I took issue with that. And yes, part of becoming a pro is absolutely money driven. Most hockey players genuinely love the game, but it's naive to think that these guys aren't money driven too. Guys wanna win, absolutely. But if they didn't want to get paid too getting both sides to agree on contract terms would be a helluva lot easier. "In every sport there have been numerous times players gave sweetheart deals to play for the team they want and help make them successful.... they want to win!". This ties in with why I take issue with your title. There are guys who take sweetheart deals, but not doing so doesn't mean a guy doesn't care about winning or that he isn't a team guy. Wanting fair market value doesn't make you greedy or any less invested in team success. Guys who take these deals aren't the norm and it shouldn't be expected that players take sweetheart, team friendly deals. Would it be nice? Absolutely. Should fans or management expect it? Of course not. This is your op. "So I have been pondering Jacob Markstrom .... and it seems to me alot depends on this question...... of Markstrom wants max $$ for performance ( hey he earned it ) then ultimately he probably will be moved at some point... But.... If Marky is a Glory Guy.... and sees the canucks will be entering thier window in a few years... looks at his age... and decides he wants a cup more than $$ and offer canucks such a good contract even with a NMC/NTC they cant refuse.... Well like I said .. is Marky a $$ Guy or a Glory Guy?" What the hell is max dollars? He's not a McDavid, he won't be in that cap stratosphere. He'll want to be paid what him and his agent feels is fair though. What is fair? That's what both sides need to negotiate. Generally there's a bit of give and take in contract negotiations. He's played well, but he hasn't been Carey Price or Braden Holtby. Markstrom wanting to be paid fairly doesn't have to mean he'd be moved eventually. He's not and wouldn't be the only guy with a cap hit on the team. That's not all on him. If Marky's a "glory guy" he'll take less for a chance to win? Again, that's ridiculous. He's a pending ufa and this is probably his last shot to get a sizable contract. Sure, he'll have to weigh that against where he wants to play as that's a reality in the cap world but that's an unfair way of looking at it. Players looking out for themselves doesn't usually mean they're not interested in winning too. And then you repeat your buzzfeed style title at the end, a title that doesn't paint a very fair picture of Markstrom. Get a grip, I'm sorry you read that into it. It's a very simple question. Funny thing is..... I have never stated if we need him or not....if it would be in our best intrest for him to remain here... It's what does drives marky. No more no less. Money absolutely does not drive pro athletes to become pro.... they'd never make it. Yes once there in it... they want more.... but some could care less.... some want glory. These are not good or bad things just characteristics of the athlete and what pushes them. Sorry man I dont agree with you pushing your values onto the thread stating what is or is not right wrong or implied. For example. Brock gave the canucks a good contract to help with cap hit.... I think money does not drive him as much..... does this make him more or less greedy than if he'd pushed for max value and term ? ,no because it's not about greed..... just brocks desire to be on the canucks for whatever reason he has. It's funny to think you would state that someone wanting to make the most they can makes them greedy...or any negative context. It's sad that you would state that if Markstrom did this he is somehow greedy. I believe if he took a big contact he deserves it! But at the same time doesnt care who he plays for because a smaller contract probably would have given him more leverage on where he plays. It's all about what Marky wants Edited November 3, 2019 by Snapshot85 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptCanuck16 Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 12 hours ago, canuckster19 said: I’m not sure what you mean, but I think Demko has earned more starts, Markstrom has been great, but you can only let a stinker of a first goal in for so long before it starts to bite your team. Same thing happened constantly last year. What?????? Markstrom played lights out last year. He kept us in a ton of games and is (mostly) the reason we stayed in the playoff hunt for so long. This season he picked up right where he left off. That game against WSH was his first indication in a long time that, yes, he is human and can have a bad game every once in awhile. If Demko continues to play like he currently is and gets more starts throughout the season I don't see a problem with that and I don't think Markstrom will mind either as long as the team keeps winning. 50/30 isn't a bad ratio. If Demko continues to get starts at the same rate as he currently has he'll get 20+ starts this year. As for the OP and Markstoms offer sheet, I would offer him $5.5m. Roughly the same as Horvat, Boeser, and Miller. Not only is it fair but it sends the message that it's a team game and no one player is more important than anyone else. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 51 minutes ago, coastal.view said: nice chart maybe you should delete from your chart every player who no longer is under contract to the team at the time of expansion then we all can see clearly who will be left exposed Thanks Coastal Do we assume status quo and assume that all the contracts due this year are resigned? Aka Tanev? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phat Fingers Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 12 hours ago, Snapshot85 said: So I have been pondering Jacob Markstrom .... and it seems to me alot depends on this question...... of Markstrom wants max $$ for performance ( hey he earned it ) then ultimately he probably will be moved at some point... But.... If Marky is a Glory Guy.... and sees the canucks will be entering thier window in a few years... looks at his age... and decides he wants a cup more than $$ and offer canucks such a good contract even with a NMC/NTC they cant refuse.... Well like I said .. is Marky a $$ Guy or a Glory Guy? Markstrom, hard to say, but my money would be on staying with a team friendly deal for good term. With Dipietro coming up behind Demko, it could make Demko a good trading chip. Markstrom struggled for a long time to get to where he is. If I was him, I would want to stay where I obtained success and keep that train rolling. He is going to get paid. Honestly I don't understand these millionaires just going for max dollars. Winning is fun, make a little less and win a lot more. Teams that maxed out for one or two guys have been having a hard time lately. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckNORRIS4Cup Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 If he wants to get paid he deserves to get paid, let's not forget 4 years ago the Canucks had Markstrom on the waivers for anyone to take, luckily no one took him, but he stuck it out and kept at it and look at him now he's a solid #1 now, so if he wants to get paid he's earned it in my books, the only question is will it be here or somewhere else, time will tell. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptCanuck16 Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 27 minutes ago, Snapshot85 said: Brock gave the canucks a good contract to help with cap hit.... I think money does not drive him as much..... does this make him more or less greedy than if he'd pushed for max value and term Boeser just went from being an ELC making $900,000 to $5.8m. That's an increase of over 500%! When was the last time you got a 500% raise at your job? He's over the moon about becoming a 23 year old millionaire. I can almost guarantee you that Boesers holding out on signing had more to do with his agents greed than with Brock himself. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 (edited) 9 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said: Thanks Coastal Do we assume status quo and assume that all the contracts due this year are resigned? Aka Tanev? up to you that is where the real work is !!! if tanev is re-signed he'd get protected for expansion ahead of stetcher and that assumes stetch is re-signed as well or do we move on from him and go with joulevi instead if marky is re-signed he'd likely have to be protected as well.. or he may as well exercise his free agent rights and move to a team of his choosing rather then default to an expansion team these are not easy decisions and it is why gm jb gets paid bigger bucks then you or i Edited November 3, 2019 by coastal.view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snapshot85 Posted November 3, 2019 Author Share Posted November 3, 2019 Just now, CptCanuck16 said: Boeser just went from being an ELC making $900,000 to $5.8m. That's an increase of over 500%! When was the last time you got a 500% raise at your job? He's over the moon about becoming a 23 year old millionaire. I can almost guarantee you that Boesers holding out on signing had more to do with his agents greed than with Brock himself. I agree with that. Every interview he says he just wants to play hockey.... and he wants to in vancouver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 12 minutes ago, CptCanuck16 said: Boeser just went from being an ELC making $900,000 to $5.8m. That's an increase of over 500%! When was the last time you got a 500% raise at your job? He's over the moon about becoming a 23 year old millionaire. I can almost guarantee you that Boesers holding out on signing had more to do with his agents greed than with Brock himself. not really that was his base salary he earned more though there were bonuses in his elc using your analogy mcdavid went from 900K to 12.5 million 1250% increase and no, that did not happen either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 7 minutes ago, coastal.view said: up to you that is where the real work is !!! if tanev is re-signed he'd get protected for expansion ahead of stetcher and that assumes stetch is re-signed as well or do we move on from him and go with joulevi instead if marky is re-signed he'd likely have to be protected as well.. or he may as well exercise his free agent rights and move to a team of his choosing rather then default to an expansion team these are not easy decisions and it is why gm jb gets paid bigger bucks then you or i Yup 100% agree with you And that was my point of building the chart I know you, realize that there is only so much cap and so many protection spots... But some not so much So, my statement to CDC is, we can't afford all and we can't protect all So do you move on this year, and prepare yourself, or do you accept you will loose a valuable asset in the draft Personally, I think this year should be a year to make those adjustments But as you pointed out, and I agree with, it is why Benning gets the big bucks My phone never rings 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptCanuck16 Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, coastal.view said: not really that was his base salary he earned more though there were bonuses in his elc using your analogy mcdavid went from 900K to 12.5 million 1250% increase and no, that did not happen either Well okay, factoring in performance bonuses Brock averaged $1.4M per season on his ELC. From 1.4 to 5.8 is still an increase of over 400%. That's not an analogy, it's called basic math bud. Edited November 3, 2019 by CptCanuck16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 Just now, CptCanuck16 said: Well okay, factoring in performance bonuses Brock averaged $1.4M per season on his ELC. From 1.4 to 5.8 is still an increase of over 400%. That's not an analogy, it's called basic math bud. the mcdavid comparison is the analogy bud that is called basic english comprehension Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptCanuck16 Posted November 3, 2019 Share Posted November 3, 2019 10 minutes ago, coastal.view said: the mcdavid comparison is the analogy bud that is called basic english comprehension Comparing McDavids salary to Boesers is NOT an analogy. I think it is you who needs some work on your English language skills. Lord have mercy. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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