It's the Coaching... analysis why

[*Buzzsaw*]

Canucks have now lost or lost in OT four games in a row.

 

And there is a simple reason why... the rest of the league has the book on the Canucks' offense.

 

It didn't take very long, because the Canucks offense is very simple to analyze.

 

90% of the time this is what you will see from the Canucks on the attack:

 

-  Forward skates over the Red line... shoots it into the D zone.  Rest of the forwards chase the puck.

 

-  Hard pass from the D to a forward standing at the opposition Blue line, forward deflects it into the D zone.  Forwards chase the puck.

 

This is as simple an offense as you can get... and yes, it can work at times.  But you need to have all your forwards moving at full speed when the puck is shot or deflected... and you need to place the shoot in where the opposing D aren't... or where the goalie can't stop it.  But if your timing is not right on, its an easy collect for the D, and its out.  And if the Dump and Chase is not working, you need to have something else in your back pocket as an alternative, because if you don't, then you have no offense.  (like the Canucks have no offense now)  When a pass is deflected into the zone by a forward standing at the blue line, the chances of retrieving a puck are even less, because that forward is probably standing still... and likely the other forwards are also not moving at full speed because timing is more complex with a deflected puck.

 

Here's what the opponent's do to counter:

 

-  First of all, the opposing goalie is told to be ready to retrieve the puck as a priority... and when he doesn't have to worry to much about the Canuck forward carrying the puck over the blue line and attacking the net, it makes his job easy.  From there its up to the his D and out.  Modern goalies are better puck handlers than ever before... one of the reasons why most of the coaches in the NHL prefer to have their players gain the zone in possession instead of dumping it in.

 

-  2nd, the defense can cheat back if they know there won't be any attempt to carry the puck in...  no reason to line up at the blue line if nobody in front of you has the puck.  Cheating back means there is even less chance for a Canuck forward to retrieve the puck.

 

Dump and chase rewards the dumping side with puck possession about 1/2 the time... if everything is working.  If timing is off, percentage drops.  Even when the puck is retrieved, the chances of a good shot are limited.  Most of the time the puck is sent back to the point. (what you see with the Canucks)  Shots from the point are low percentage... especially in even strength situations.  The other common result when the puck is retrieved is possession behind the enemy net... and the Canuck player then tries to set someone up out front... with the inevitable problem in doing this at even strength when the assigned checker is draped all over the Canuck with the puck... plus opposing D blocking any attempts to center.  Very rarely does a dump and chase reward a team with possession in front of the net with a clear shot from the area of the face off circles or right between the circles.

 

Dump and chase is also way more demanding of the energy of the forwards than carrying the puck into the zone.  The amount of time required to retrieve the puck... the amount of effort to physically move the opposing D off the puck... the amount of time spent cycling... all of this requires a huge amount of effort on the part of the offensive players who are engaged in Dump and Chase.

 

If you watch most teams in the league... you will see they emphasize entering the zone in possession... if you watched the last three teams the Canucks played... (Jersey, Winnipeg, Chicago) only one of which is considered a Contender... all of them focus on entering the zone in possession.   Very rarely do they dump the puck in.... only on line changes or unusual situations.  Even poorly performing teams manage to enter the zone in possession.

 

Now some of you might say the Canucks don't have the skills to play a game which centers on entering the zone in possession... but that is clearly false.

 

Canucks have a group with excellent speed.... Pettersson, Horvat, Pearson, Leivo, Baertschi, Hughes, Myers... even Brock Boeser can generate good speed if he is allowed to wind up.

 

Unfortunately rarely to the Canucks use that speed due to the coaching system they are playing under.  All through the Jersey game there were hardly any rushes with speed which saw the Canucks enter in possession.  The one exception was Brock Boeser's goal... he was allowed to wind up... then receive a drop pass at speed... enter the zone, blast past the D and get a good shot.

 

There is no reason why this team cannot be coached to play with speed and passing... using all the techniques of a good rushing team... i.e. criss crossing, drop passes, long stretch passes, etc. etc.

 

No reason except that Coach Green hasn't taken the time to teach them.

 

Until this coach starts to display more imagination in how he structures his offense, the team will continue to struggle.

 

The early season is past... the rest of the league knows what they'll see from the Canucks... and they already have the methods to neutralize the team.

[burrardstreetbullies]

Nowell Brown is terrible, I have been banging the table on getting him skidded beginning of last year.    drop passing attempting to gain zone entry every time? just stand up at the blue line and that doesnt work at all.  

 

one point i will mention back in the good ole days with Vinny a slightly slower canucks team then this constantly got breakaways and odd man rushes.  you barely see this today with the current coaching staff we have. 

 

get Guy boucher on the horn the nucks need an offensive coach RIGHT NOW

[6string]

Dumping the puck in are often just giveaways.

 

Between that and the many blocked shots that Edler and other dmen give up from the point amounts to lost possession time. We are always chasing the play in those two situations of turnovers.

Edited November 11, 2019 by 6string

[Ray_Cathode]

1 hour ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Canucks have now lost or lost in OT four games in a row.

 

And there is a simple reason why... the rest of the league has the book on the Canucks' offense.

 

It didn't take very long, because the Canucks offense is very simple to analyze.

 

90% of the time this is what you will see from the Canucks on the attack:

 

-  Forward skates over the Red line... shoots it into the D zone.  Rest of the forwards chase the puck.

 

-  Hard pass from the D to a forward standing at the opposition Blue line, forward deflects it into the D zone.  Forwards chase the puck.

 

This is as simple an offense as you can get... and yes, it can work at times.  But you need to have all your forwards moving at full speed when the puck is shot or deflected... and you need to place the shoot in where the opposing D aren't... or where the goalie can't stop it.  But if your timing is not right on, its an easy collect for the D, and its out.  And if the Dump and Chase is not working, you need to have something else in your back pocket as an alternative, because if you don't, then you have no offense.  (like the Canucks have no offense now)  When a pass is deflected into the zone by a forward standing at the blue line, the chances of retrieving a puck are even less, because that forward is probably standing still... and likely the other forwards are also not moving at full speed because timing is more complex with a deflected puck.

 

Here's what the opponent's do to counter:

 

-  First of all, the opposing goalie is told to be ready to retrieve the puck as a priority... and when he doesn't have to worry to much about the Canuck forward carrying the puck over the blue line and attacking the net, it makes his job easy.  From there its up to the his D and out.  Modern goalies are better puck handlers than ever before... one of the reasons why most of the coaches in the NHL prefer to have their players gain the zone in possession instead of dumping it in.

 

-  2nd, the defense can cheat back if they know there won't be any attempt to carry the puck in...  no reason to line up at the blue line if nobody in front of you has the puck.  Cheating back means there is even less chance for a Canuck forward to retrieve the puck.

 

Dump and chase rewards the dumping side with puck possession about 1/2 the time... if everything is working.  If timing is off, percentage drops.  Even when the puck is retrieved, the chances of a good shot are limited.  Most of the time the puck is sent back to the point. (what you see with the Canucks)  Shots from the point are low percentage... especially in even strength situations.  The other common result when the puck is retrieved is possession behind the enemy net... and the Canuck player then tries to set someone up out front... with the inevitable problem in doing this at even strength when the assigned checker is draped all over the Canuck with the puck... plus opposing D blocking any attempts to center.  Very rarely does a dump and chase reward a team with possession in front of the net with a clear shot from the area of the face off circles or right between the circles.

 

Dump and chase is also way more demanding of the energy of the forwards than carrying the puck into the zone.  The amount of time required to retrieve the puck... the amount of effort to physically move the opposing D off the puck... the amount of time spent cycling... all of this requires a huge amount of effort on the part of the offensive players who are engaged in Dump and Chase.

 

If you watch most teams in the league... you will see they emphasize entering the zone in possession... if you watched the last three teams the Canucks played... (Jersey, Winnipeg, Chicago) only one of which is considered a Contender... all of them focus on entering the zone in possession.   Very rarely do they dump the puck in.... only on line changes or unusual situations.  Even poorly performing teams manage to enter the zone in possession.

 

Now some of you might say the Canucks don't have the skills to play a game which centers on entering the zone in possession... but that is clearly false.

 

Canucks have a group with excellent speed.... Pettersson, Horvat, Pearson, Leivo, Baertschi, Hughes, Myers... even Brock Boeser can generate good speed if he is allowed to wind up.

 

Unfortunately rarely to the Canucks use that speed due to the coaching system they are playing under.  All through the Jersey game there were hardly any rushes with speed which saw the Canucks enter in possession.  The one exception was Brock Boeser's goal... he was allowed to wind up... then receive a drop pass at speed... enter the zone, blast past the D and get a good shot.

 

There is no reason why this team cannot be coached to play with speed and passing... using all the techniques of a good rushing team... i.e. criss crossing, drop passes, long stretch passes, etc. etc.

 

No reason except that Coach Green hasn't taken the time to teach them.

 

Until this coach starts to display more imagination in how he structures his offense, the team will continue to struggle.

 

The early season is past... the rest of the league knows what they'll see from the Canucks... and they already have the methods to neutralize the team.

You should take the schedule into account.  The Canucks have played 7 home games (two of which were singles dropped into the middle of a long road trip) and 11 away games). Practice time is hard to get on the road mixed in with travel. The test is now that they are in the middle of a home stand to improve their game - if not, then yeah, it’s the coaches - strategically, but as for work effort, Green is successful in getting the maximum effort out of his charges.

[BrockBoester]

Forward this to the Canucks coaching staff ASAP!

 

I'm sure we'll start pouring in the goals again as soon as they read this!

 

Or, you know, the team is in a slump and will return to form soon. Whatever.

 

[khay]

Ideally, we should get someone that can make in-game adjustments. Not a stubborn coach who refuses to make adjustments with the season on the line (usually in the playoffs). I think coaching makes a huge difference in the playoffs and that's one of the reasons why we lost to Chicago in 2009. Somehow, all they did was to park Big Buff's fat a$$ in front of the net and we had no answer. 

 

I'm not ready to claim that Green is a bad coach. But we know that he hasn't proven himself yet even in the regular season unlike AV, who was proven in the regular season. If we miss the playoffs this season, his position as the head coach should be re-evaluated and of course, if he goes, the assistant coaches go too (usually the new guy brings in his own people).

[FijianCanuck]

There will always be highs and lows of a season. We'll bounce back.

[-DLC-]

So it was also the coaching when we were winning.

 

I'm reluctant to armchair QB things because it's still too early...these are part of the ebbs and flows of any team.  NO team will go 82-0 and we're competing and the losses are games we could have won.

 

Marky obviously went through something hugely traumatic and a team rallies behind their brothers and things have been a little off.

 

I'd say we "panic" at the end of the month if we're still sliding downward.  

 

These players have done well under Green and sometimes teams lose. 

[LowerMainLander18]

10 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Canucks have now lost or lost in OT four games in a row.

 

And there is a simple reason why... the rest of the league has the book on the Canucks' offense.

 

It didn't take very long, because the Canucks offense is very simple to analyze.

 

90% of the time this is what you will see from the Canucks on the attack:

 

-  Forward skates over the Red line... shoots it into the D zone.  Rest of the forwards chase the puck.

-  Hard pass from the D to a forward standing at the opposition Blue line, forward deflects it into the D zone.  Forwards chase the puck.

Deflection into their zone, from what Ive seen, were done for line changes. I don't remember seeing it happen when we are breaking into their zone for attack.

10 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

This is as simple an offense as you can get... and yes, it can work at times.  But you need to have all your forwards moving at full speed when the puck is shot or deflected... and you need to place the shoot in where the opposing D aren't... or where the goalie can't stop it.  But if your timing is not right on, its an easy collect for the D, and its out.  And if the Dump and Chase is not working, you need to have something else in your back pocket as an alternative, because if you don't, then you have no offense.  (like the Canucks have no offense now)  When a pass is deflected into the zone by a forward standing at the blue line, the chances of retrieving a puck are even less, because that forward is probably standing still... and likely the other forwards are also not moving at full speed because timing is more complex with a deflected puck.

 

Here's what the opponent's do to counter:

 

-  First of all, the opposing goalie is told to be ready to retrieve the puck as a priority... and when he doesn't have to worry to much about the Canuck forward carrying the puck over the blue line and attacking the net, it makes his job easy.  From there its up to the his D and out.  Modern goalies are better puck handlers than ever before... one of the reasons why most of the coaches in the NHL prefer to have their players gain the zone in possession instead of dumping it in.

The play that the Defenceman hates the most in a hockey game is when the puck is dumped into the D-zone onto his side. Expecting to get hit like that is the worst feeling. People learn this from Bantam hockey and up. So that offsets goalie's comfort. 

10 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

-  2nd, the defense can cheat back if they know there won't be any attempt to carry the puck in...  no reason to line up at the blue line if nobody in front of you has the puck.  Cheating back means there is even less chance for a Canuck forward to retrieve the puck.

The reason why we dump the puck in is when the D's are NOT cheating. Rather they are jumping up onto our fwds forcing a dump in. 

I am not sure what you have been seeing. But that's how neutral zone trapping works which seems to be a popular method to stop break ins nowadays.

10 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Dump and chase rewards the dumping side with puck possession about 1/2 the time... if everything is working.  If timing is off, percentage drops.  Even when the puck is retrieved, the chances of a good shot are limited.  Most of the time the puck is sent back to the point. (what you see with the Canucks)  Shots from the point are low percentage... especially in even strength situations.  The other common result when the puck is retrieved is possession behind the enemy net... and the Canuck player then tries to set someone up out front... with the inevitable problem in doing this at even strength when the assigned checker is draped all over the Canuck with the puck... plus opposing D blocking any attempts to center.  Very rarely does a dump and chase reward a team with possession in front of the net with a clear shot from the area of the face off circles or right between the circles.

Dump and chase is done to pressure their D's and force a mistake out of them. And estimating the puck possession resulting from it as 1/2 is inaccurate. 

I am not saying Dump and chase should be our prioritized break ins but often I see it happen due to us being clogged in the neutral zone. 

If there is a play where we have to carry the puck in, we do it. Saw plenty. 

People are just caught up with few dump and chase plays and make a bigger deal out of it then it is. 

There is nothing wrong about dump and chase. What's wrong is the first outlet pass and our forwards jetting out of our D-zone, forcing our D's to make a long pass to an already clogged neutral zone. Break out should start in our own zone. 

10 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

 

Dump and chase is also way more demanding of the energy of the forwards than carrying the puck into the zone.  The amount of time required to retrieve the puck... the amount of effort to physically move the opposing D off the puck... the amount of time spent cycling... all of this requires a huge amount of effort on the part of the offensive players who are engaged in Dump and Chase.

This is a wrong information. Dump and chase is a double edged sword. Their D's hate it because it wears them down, too. 

Only downside is that our fwds often are not physical enough on them nowadays. 

10 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

If you watch most teams in the league... you will see they emphasize entering the zone in possession... if you watched the last three teams the Canucks played... (Jersey, Winnipeg, Chicago) only one of which is considered a Contender... all of them focus on entering the zone in possession.   Very rarely do they dump the puck in.... only on line changes or unusual situations.  Even poorly performing teams manage to enter the zone in possession.

First, It is wrong to compare ourselves amongst contenders. Our goal is to make the playoffs, first. Let's not jump the gun so much.

Second, Chicago just beat Toronto last night. They played well against us and they are on a roll. Not saying they are good enough to beat us on a given night but just saying that the standings right now across the league has misconceptions. 

10 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Now some of you might say the Canucks don't have the skills to play a game which centers on entering the zone in possession... but that is clearly false.

I agree.

10 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Canucks have a group with excellent speed.... Pettersson, Horvat, Pearson, Leivo, Baertschi, Hughes, Myers... even Brock Boeser can generate good speed if he is allowed to wind up.

If they want to use speed and skills to mess up the other team's neutral zone trap, they would need to come back into our own zone and break out together. 

I hate Boston more than any team in the league. But I see them doing it effectively with their skilled guys. 

Colorado does the same thing. I rarely see MacKinnon pick cherries to receive a long outlet pass. He and his line-mates break out from their own zone. 

I am not sure if the Nux fwds are trying to make perfect pass or worry about sending out a blind suicide pass to the middle of the ice but I see those wingers on the wall curl back way too often, sending the puck right back to our D's. Again, this kind of plays, players are responsible just as much as the coaches. 

 

10 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Unfortunately rarely to the Canucks use that speed due to the coaching system they are playing under.  All through the Jersey game there were hardly any rushes with speed which saw the Canucks enter in possession.  The one exception was Brock Boeser's goal... he was allowed to wind up... then receive a drop pass at speed... enter the zone, blast past the D and get a good shot.

Nope. It's not solely on the coaches. It's also on the first winger that receives the puck on the wall. 

10 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

There is no reason why this team cannot be coached to play with speed and passing... using all the techniques of a good rushing team... i.e. criss crossing, drop passes, long stretch passes, etc. etc.

 

No reason except that Coach Green hasn't taken the time to teach them.

 

Until this coach starts to display more imagination in how he structures his offense, the team will continue to struggle.

 

The early season is past... the rest of the league knows what they'll see from the Canucks... and they already have the methods to neutralize the team.

It's so convenient and easy to find an excuse or blame everything on one thing.

But most often, it's a combination of multiple things. Firing Green will suddenly make us into a contender? Absolutely not.

Perhaps it's better to speak out a solution while ranting out (for instance, which coach should be a better fit).  

 

[189lb enforcers?]

 

 

[Bertuzzi44ever]

I could do without greens stupid face he makes after every Canuck penalty 

[ItTakesAnArmy]

2 hours ago, LowerMainLander18 said:

12 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Canucks have now lost or lost in OT four games in a row.

 

And there is a simple reason why... the rest of the league has the book on the Canucks' offense.

 

It didn't take very long, because the Canucks offense is very simple to analyze.

 

90% of the time this is what you will see from the Canucks on the attack:

 

-  Forward skates over the Red line... shoots it into the D zone.  Rest of the forwards chase the puck.

-  Hard pass from the D to a forward standing at the opposition Blue line, forward deflects it into the D zone.  Forwards chase the puck.

Deflection into their zone, from what Ive seen, were done for line changes. I don't remember seeing it happen when we are breaking into their zone for attack.

Quote

This is as simple an offense as you can get... and yes, it can work at times.  But you need to have all your forwards moving at full speed when the puck is shot or deflected... and you need to place the shoot in where the opposing D aren't... or where the goalie can't stop it.  But if your timing is not right on, its an easy collect for the D, and its out.  And if the Dump and Chase is not working, you need to have something else in your back pocket as an alternative, because if you don't, then you have no offense.  (like the Canucks have no offense now)  When a pass is deflected into the zone by a forward standing at the blue line, the chances of retrieving a puck are even less, because that forward is probably standing still... and likely the other forwards are also not moving at full speed because timing is more complex with a deflected puck.

 

Here's what the opponent's do to counter:

 

-  First of all, the opposing goalie is told to be ready to retrieve the puck as a priority... and when he doesn't have to worry to much about the Canuck forward carrying the puck over the blue line and attacking the net, it makes his job easy.  From there its up to the his D and out.  Modern goalies are better puck handlers than ever before... one of the reasons why most of the coaches in the NHL prefer to have their players gain the zone in possession instead of dumping it in.

The play that the Defenceman hates the most in a hockey game is when the puck is dumped into the D-zone onto his side. Expecting to get hit like that is the worst feeling. People learn this from Bantam hockey and up. So that offsets goalie's comfort. 

Quote

-  2nd, the defense can cheat back if they know there won't be any attempt to carry the puck in...  no reason to line up at the blue line if nobody in front of you has the puck.  Cheating back means there is even less chance for a Canuck forward to retrieve the puck.

The reason why we dump the puck in is when the D's are NOT cheating. Rather they are jumping up onto our fwds forcing a dump in. 

I am not sure what you have been seeing. But that's how neutral zone trapping works which seems to be a popular method to stop break ins nowadays.

Quote

Dump and chase rewards the dumping side with puck possession about 1/2 the time... if everything is working.  If timing is off, percentage drops.  Even when the puck is retrieved, the chances of a good shot are limited.  Most of the time the puck is sent back to the point. (what you see with the Canucks)  Shots from the point are low percentage... especially in even strength situations.  The other common result when the puck is retrieved is possession behind the enemy net... and the Canuck player then tries to set someone up out front... with the inevitable problem in doing this at even strength when the assigned checker is draped all over the Canuck with the puck... plus opposing D blocking any attempts to center.  Very rarely does a dump and chase reward a team with possession in front of the net with a clear shot from the area of the face off circles or right between the circles.

Dump and chase is done to pressure their D's and force a mistake out of them. And estimating the puck possession resulting from it as 1/2 is inaccurate. 

I am not saying Dump and chase should be our prioritized break ins but often I see it happen due to us being clogged in the neutral zone. 

If there is a play where we have to carry the puck in, we do it. Saw plenty. 

People are just caught up with few dump and chase plays and make a bigger deal out of it then it is. 

There is nothing wrong about dump and chase. What's wrong is the first outlet pass and our forwards jetting out of our D-zone, forcing our D's to make a long pass to an already clogged neutral zone. Break out should start in our own zone. 

Quote

 

Dump and chase is also way more demanding of the energy of the forwards than carrying the puck into the zone.  The amount of time required to retrieve the puck... the amount of effort to physically move the opposing D off the puck... the amount of time spent cycling... all of this requires a huge amount of effort on the part of the offensive players who are engaged in Dump and Chase.

This is a wrong information. Dump and chase is a double edged sword. Their D's hate it because it wears them down, too. 

Only downside is that our fwds often are not physical enough on them nowadays. 

Quote

If you watch most teams in the league... you will see they emphasize entering the zone in possession... if you watched the last three teams the Canucks played... (Jersey, Winnipeg, Chicago) only one of which is considered a Contender... all of them focus on entering the zone in possession.   Very rarely do they dump the puck in.... only on line changes or unusual situations.  Even poorly performing teams manage to enter the zone in possession.

First, It is wrong to compare ourselves amongst contenders. Our goal is to make the playoffs, first. Let's not jump the gun so much.

Second, Chicago just beat Toronto last night. They played well against us and they are on a roll. Not saying they are good enough to beat us on a given night but just saying that the standings right now across the league has misconceptions. 

Quote

Now some of you might say the Canucks don't have the skills to play a game which centers on entering the zone in possession... but that is clearly false.

I agree.

Quote

Canucks have a group with excellent speed.... Pettersson, Horvat, Pearson, Leivo, Baertschi, Hughes, Myers... even Brock Boeser can generate good speed if he is allowed to wind up.

If they want to use speed and skills to mess up the other team's neutral zone trap, they would need to come back into our own zone and break out together. 

I hate Boston more than any team in the league. But I see them doing it effectively with their skilled guys. 

Colorado does the same thing. I rarely see MacKinnon pick cherries to receive a long outlet pass. He and his line-mates break out from their own zone. 

I am not sure if the Nux fwds are trying to make perfect pass or worry about sending out a blind suicide pass to the middle of the ice but I see those wingers on the wall curl back way too often, sending the puck right back to our D's. Again, this kind of plays, players are responsible just as much as the coaches. 

 

Quote

Unfortunately rarely to the Canucks use that speed due to the coaching system they are playing under.  All through the Jersey game there were hardly any rushes with speed which saw the Canucks enter in possession.  The one exception was Brock Boeser's goal... he was allowed to wind up... then receive a drop pass at speed... enter the zone, blast past the D and get a good shot.

Nope. It's not solely on the coaches. It's also on the first winger that receives the puck on the wall. 

Quote

There is no reason why this team cannot be coached to play with speed and passing... using all the techniques of a good rushing team... i.e. criss crossing, drop passes, long stretch passes, etc. etc.

 

No reason except that Coach Green hasn't taken the time to teach them.

 

Until this coach starts to display more imagination in how he structures his offense, the team will continue to struggle.

 

The early season is past... the rest of the league knows what they'll see from the Canucks... and they already have the methods to neutralize the team.

It's so convenient and easy to find an excuse or blame everything on one thing.

But most often, it's a combination of multiple things. Firing Green will suddenly make us into a contender? Absolutely not.

Perhaps it's better to speak out a solution while ranting out (for instance, which coach should be a better fit).  

Pretty decent insight and analysis, at least it is looking at the overall picture. Rarely is it just one thing.

An area not scrutinized here though is the "mental" aspect, the team physique. This is a team that has, for most of the group, never been on a winning NHL team as a Canuck and players can catch the loser mentality as did Edmonton and Calgary. This is an expectation of waiting for the other shoe to drop and as soon as things start going south the players try harder and harder, squeeze the sticks harder and just get frustrated. All the losing the team has done has taught them acceptance.

They came out of the gate on fire, the bottom three lines were lighting it up and the PP was rolling. The team has an aggressive forecheck and a dman rushing and going deep just about every shift, playing a little like Niedemyere used to or old school hockey, almost a Scott Niedermayer type of dman which relies on a forward to play defence, this is seen most often when Hughes is on the ice and results in why Hughes has the worst plus minus on the team.

 

It isn't JUST the coaching, it is the assembly of players, while a good supporting cast, that is what they are, a supporting cast and they are expected to all have career seasons for this team to succeed.

 

The other thing also is the expectations piled on the team by the fans, media and management, the fans because of hope, the media to sell more time and management to sell more tickets.

 

It is simply too soon for this team to carry the load, the good teams can relax and play, this team has to play with a frantic desperation still, they have to learn to "expect to win" yet. There are just too many older vets that know they are on retirement contracts or maybe have one more deal left if they can be very good supporting cast players.

Edited November 11, 2019 by ItTakesAnArmy

[Maddogy]

My biases:

-  I like point form posts

- I do not rave over Canucks' prospects like many fans here do

- I did not post how incredible our team was just a week and a half ago because they were overachieving

 

My opinion on the losing streak so far:

 

- This league becomes tougher to score on as the season moves along, if you think this is bad wait for March 2020

 

- Canucks is a hard working team with above average possession and zone play numbers as well as above average talent level, that is provided there are no significant injuries

 

- Goal tending is still good during the losing streak

 

- D is OK during the losing streak, it is still preferable compared to last year's D core

 

- Many forwards exhibit hard work, but with terrible finish. The player that I am very disappointed with is Josh Leivo. His shot is gone. He has trouble receiving routine passes from his line mates. I expected him to take another step this year. 

 

- When the scoring dries up the  correct identity for the Canucks is the St. Louis brand of grinding, tight checking hockey. The Canucks should seriously consider more of a trapping game. They do not have the talent to score a bunch on a game to game basis. They do have more talent than Arizona and are comparable to NY Islanders. Travis Green needs to demonstrate that he is capable of adjusting the team's play style on the fly. He has the personnel to do it with. The Canucks have a lot of big, fast and fairly skilled forwards.  

 

- Recall that Alain Vigneault's Canucks went through a terrible stretch, Gillis did not fire him. The team developed into a contender in the following season. 

 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2019 by Maddogy

[JustRich]

21 minutes ago, Bertuzzi44ever said:

I could do without greens stupid face he makes after every Canuck penalty 

Man you are so negative.  Maybe watch another team or take up a cool hobby, if you're letting a game have such a bearing on your life.

[Warhippy]

11 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Canucks have now lost or lost in OT four games in a row.

This is all you need to key in to.

 

The Canucks have lost 4 OT games in a row.  Not outright, not blow out losses not completely terrible games but in OT

 

6th in the west, top 5 scoring team in the league.  top 10 GAA and 4-3-3 in their last 10 which could easily be 8-1-1 or 4-6 or some nonsense

 

I think you're seeing demons where there aren't any.  Not sure where everyone else though this team would finish but I was always saying this would be our bubble year and the strides this team has already made have been fun to see.

[aqua59]

11 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Canucks have now lost or lost in OT four games in a row.

 

And there is a simple reason why... the rest of the league has the book on the Canucks' offense.

 

It didn't take very long, because the Canucks offense is very simple to analyze.

 

90% of the time this is what you will see from the Canucks on the attack:

 

-  Forward skates over the Red line... shoots it into the D zone.  Rest of the forwards chase the puck.

 

-  Hard pass from the D to a forward standing at the opposition Blue line, forward deflects it into the D zone.  Forwards chase the puck.

 

This is as simple an offense as you can get... and yes, it can work at times.  But you need to have all your forwards moving at full speed when the puck is shot or deflected... and you need to place the shoot in where the opposing D aren't... or where the goalie can't stop it.  But if your timing is not right on, its an easy collect for the D, and its out.  And if the Dump and Chase is not working, you need to have something else in your back pocket as an alternative, because if you don't, then you have no offense.  (like the Canucks have no offense now)  When a pass is deflected into the zone by a forward standing at the blue line, the chances of retrieving a puck are even less, because that forward is probably standing still... and likely the other forwards are also not moving at full speed because timing is more complex with a deflected puck.

 

Here's what the opponent's do to counter:

 

-  First of all, the opposing goalie is told to be ready to retrieve the puck as a priority... and when he doesn't have to worry to much about the Canuck forward carrying the puck over the blue line and attacking the net, it makes his job easy.  From there its up to the his D and out.  Modern goalies are better puck handlers than ever before... one of the reasons why most of the coaches in the NHL prefer to have their players gain the zone in possession instead of dumping it in.

 

-  2nd, the defense can cheat back if they know there won't be any attempt to carry the puck in...  no reason to line up at the blue line if nobody in front of you has the puck.  Cheating back means there is even less chance for a Canuck forward to retrieve the puck.

 

Dump and chase rewards the dumping side with puck possession about 1/2 the time... if everything is working.  If timing is off, percentage drops.  Even when the puck is retrieved, the chances of a good shot are limited.  Most of the time the puck is sent back to the point. (what you see with the Canucks)  Shots from the point are low percentage... especially in even strength situations.  The other common result when the puck is retrieved is possession behind the enemy net... and the Canuck player then tries to set someone up out front... with the inevitable problem in doing this at even strength when the assigned checker is draped all over the Canuck with the puck... plus opposing D blocking any attempts to center.  Very rarely does a dump and chase reward a team with possession in front of the net with a clear shot from the area of the face off circles or right between the circles.

 

Dump and chase is also way more demanding of the energy of the forwards than carrying the puck into the zone.  The amount of time required to retrieve the puck... the amount of effort to physically move the opposing D off the puck... the amount of time spent cycling... all of this requires a huge amount of effort on the part of the offensive players who are engaged in Dump and Chase.

 

If you watch most teams in the league... you will see they emphasize entering the zone in possession... if you watched the last three teams the Canucks played... (Jersey, Winnipeg, Chicago) only one of which is considered a Contender... all of them focus on entering the zone in possession.   Very rarely do they dump the puck in.... only on line changes or unusual situations.  Even poorly performing teams manage to enter the zone in possession.

 

Now some of you might say the Canucks don't have the skills to play a game which centers on entering the zone in possession... but that is clearly false.

 

Canucks have a group with excellent speed.... Pettersson, Horvat, Pearson, Leivo, Baertschi, Hughes, Myers... even Brock Boeser can generate good speed if he is allowed to wind up.

 

Unfortunately rarely to the Canucks use that speed due to the coaching system they are playing under.  All through the Jersey game there were hardly any rushes with speed which saw the Canucks enter in possession.  The one exception was Brock Boeser's goal... he was allowed to wind up... then receive a drop pass at speed... enter the zone, blast past the D and get a good shot.

 

There is no reason why this team cannot be coached to play with speed and passing... using all the techniques of a good rushing team... i.e. criss crossing, drop passes, long stretch passes, etc. etc.

 

No reason except that Coach Green hasn't taken the time to teach them.

 

Until this coach starts to display more imagination in how he structures his offense, the team will continue to struggle.

 

The early season is past... the rest of the league knows what they'll see from the Canucks... and they already have the methods to neutralize the team.

I hate to agree with this but I believe you to right on many fronts.

 

I like green and his crew but it's about results. Newell Brown is retread return guy that doesn't have the Sedins.That's when he was last successful. He had little to no success in Anaheim.

 

I actually just started question this group of coaches when I see Luoi and Sven getting the nod. I thought we were past these two. 

 

Looks like last season when i see these two out there. Stale bread and old plan that's being forced through the system. 

 

For the most part the payers have bought into the so called plan but the results are starting to flatten out rather quickly.

 

I'm concerned for the pattern of the same old reminds me of WD..  

 

 

 

 

 

[aqua59]

5 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

This is all you need to key in to.

 

The Canucks have lost 4 OT games in a row.  Not outright, not blow out losses not completely terrible games but in OT

 

6th in the west, top 5 scoring team in the league.  top 10 GAA and 4-3-3 in their last 10 which could easily be 8-1-1 or 4-6 or some nonsense

 

I think you're seeing demons where there aren't any.  Not sure where everyone else though this team would finish but I was always saying this would be our bubble year and the strides this team has already made have been fun to see.

Yup, a full season of perspective.

[Western Red]

At this point, a .500 November would be great, though maybe unlikely. (schedule at the end of the months is kinda rough)

 

Boston has dropped 3 and a couple other big boys have slowed down.

 

Re: coaching. They'll figure it out. Some passengers on the team all of a sudden, thinking Leivo and Pearson. 

 

 

 

[aqua59]

23 minutes ago, Maddogy said:

My biases:

-  I like point form posts

- I do not rave over Canucks' prospects like many fans here do

- I did not post how incredible our team was just a week and a half ago because they were overachieving

 

My opinion on the losing streak so far:

 

- This league becomes tougher to score on as the season moves along, if you think this is bad wait for March 2020

 

- Canucks is a hard working team with above average possession and zone play numbers as well as above average talent level, that is provided there are no significant injuries

 

- Goal tending is still good during the losing streak

 

- D is OK during the losing streak, it is still preferable compared to last year's D core

 

- Many forwards exhibit hard work, but with terrible finish. The player that I am very disappointed with is Josh Leivo. His shot is gone. He has trouble receiving routine passes from his line mates. I expected him to take another step this year. 

 

- When the scoring dries up the  correct identity for the Canucks is the St. Louis brand of grinding, tight checking hockey. The Canucks should seriously consider more of a trapping game. They do not have the talent to score a bunch on a game to game basis. They do have more talent than Arizona and are comparable to NY Islanders. Travis Green needs to demonstrate that he is capable of adjusting the team's play style on the fly. He has the personnel to do it with. The Canucks have a lot of big, fast and fairly skilled forwards.  

 

- Recall that Alain Vigneault's Canucks went through a terrible stretch, Gillis did not fire him. The team developed into a contender in the following season. 

 

 

 

Perspective always helps. I think a lot of fans including myself get hung up on the potential and get that mixed up with the reality of how slow things take in the real league.

[Canckelhead]

1 hour ago, FilthyRich said:

Man you are so negative.  Maybe watch another team or take up a cool hobby, if you're letting a game have such a bearing on your life.

Thats what this forum if for, so ppl can share the likes or dislikes of the team they care about. Don't be such a