It's the Coaching... analysis why

[skategal]

Not sure where the narrative that all the Canucks do is dump and chase originated, but from what I have observed, it largely depends on the situation - sometimes the players on the ice, sometimes the point in the game....need a line change....I certainly don't see that as a singular style that they play.  It might be how a Jake Virtanen is well used, he has the speed to go in hard on the forecheck and punish defenders.  

I don't know why there is so much panic and angst - I don't think anyone thought we were going to win 82 games, and I doubt we'll lose 82 games.  We had a glorious start, but consider our schedule in October was probably the best we could desire and we benefitted from that.  Our schedule in November is more challenging, less practice time, more road time.  It all evens out, and probably by mid January we should have a better idea of what our team actually is.  

2 weeks ago, fans were begging/demanding that Baertschi be inserted back into the lineup....not surprising he hasn't been the saviour….makes me think the coaching/management know more about the players than some of us give credit for.  

The major part of our core is still young, they need time to learn the nuances of the game, feel the pressure to perform night in and night out, and with luck, patience and the adds of a couple more skilled players we will be in a great spot in a year or two.  We still have some growing pains in front of us.

[ItTakesAnArmy]

58 minutes ago, aqua59 said:

Perspective always helps. I think a lot of fans including myself get hung up on the potential and get that mixed up with the reality of how slow things take in the real league.

Perspective and comparison. From my perspective it is unfathomable that no Canadian team has won the cup since Montreal WAAAaay back in the 90's. The odds are better that you get struck by lightning 4 or 5 times than that not happening, but it is good for the NHL.

Things only take a lot of time in Canada some US teams seem to negate the need for a total rebuild altogether, something like Tampa will thanks to all the draft picks they are collecting and really good prospects in development.

NYR essentially 3 years, NJD, 3 years, TO, 3 years, Chicago, just keeps re-tooling. There are exceptions but those have other circumstances included, like Arizona, no matter what is advertised they are still owned (loans) by the NHL.

[Dr. Crossbar]

I can't go to coaching yet. Still too early, imo, but Green and staff do need to find a way to right the ship. If anything, I do agree the dump and chase isn't working and these hot goalies have shut down our perimeter shooting.

 

I really want to see us going to the net, crashing the net, getting greasy opportunities. We have players that can do that. Even Boeser said they need to get greasier goals when things aren't working.

 

After watching the Leafs - Hawks game last night, I really do think it's more that teams are really turning up their game against us. The Hawks really took it to the Laffs last night and outplayed them. It looks like the Hawks are finding their groove. Too bad we fell victim to that.

 

The Jets and Devils turned up their games against us as well. As a team - and this is on Green to prepare - we need to realize that even lower standing teams are raising their play to beat us. That's indicative of how much better we got and no one's taking us lightly.

 

It really proves how hard this season will be. We can't let up and need to find better ways to adapt. Also knowing what we know about Markstrom's dad, it's pretty incredible that he got right back to work after time off and kept us in games.

 

Green is in this with the players and we also need to let him overcome his own adversity. Again, glad this is all happening early. 

[Timråfan]

11 hours ago, BrockBoester said:

Forward this to the Canucks coaching staff ASAP!

 

I'm sure we'll start pouring in the goals again as soon as they read this!

 

Or, you know, the team is in a slump and will return to form soon. Whatever.

 

One of the coaches task is to stop the slumps by changing strategy. I don't see that coming when you only change players in lines while playing exactly the same. De

[IBatch]

11 minutes ago, ItTakesAnArmy said:

Perspective and comparison. From my perspective it is unfathomable that no Canadian team has won the cup since Montreal WAAAaay back in the 90's. The odds are better that you get struck by lightning 4 or 5 times than that not happening, but it is good for the NHL.

Things only take a lot of time in Canada some US teams seem to negate the need for a total rebuild altogether, something like Tampa will thanks to all the draft picks they are collecting and really good prospects in development.

NYR essentially 3 years, NJD, 3 years, TO, 3 years, Chicago, just keeps re-tooling. There are exceptions but those have other circumstances included, like Arizona, no matter what is advertised they are still owned (loans) by the NHL.

NJ and TO have been rebuilding for a long time.   NYR they haven’t but it’s far from over.   TB - they haven’t really had a low yet - but it will come, closest thing to a modern day Det - with the exception one cup instead of three.  And Waaay back in the 90’s isn’t that far back for some of us / perspective does matter.   

[Nucker 67]

I'm not confident in Green taking this team to the next level. Great development coach, good for the young players, but as far as leading a great team to a Cup? I don't think he's the right guy.

[Toyotasfan]

tougher schedule, tougher competition might be what the Canucks need. They might have to ADJUST their game. 

 

[Alflives]

8 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

I'm not confident in Green taking this team to the next level. Great development coach, good for the young players, but as far as leading a great team to a Cup? I don't think he's the right guy.

Same was said about Al Arbour.  Green’s an Al Arbour student.  

[Topcheeze86]

Ya not really feeling the dump and chase on line one there to skilled to be givibg up the puck in hopes they win the board play 

[mll]

42 minutes ago, IBatch said:

NJ and TO have been rebuilding for a long time.   NYR they haven’t but it’s far from over.   TB - they haven’t really had a low yet - but it will come, closest thing to a modern day Det - with the exception one cup instead of three.  And Waaay back in the 90’s isn’t that far back for some of us / perspective does matter.   

NJD started their rebuild under Shero.  He took over in May 2015.  NJD went to finals in 2012.  They traded their 2013 1st for Schneider.  In 2014 they were penalised for the Kovalchuk contract and drafted last in the 1st round. 

[IBatch]

12 minutes ago, mll said:

NJD started their rebuild under Shero.  He took over in May 2015.  NJD went to finals in 2012.  They traded their 2013 1st for Schneider.  In 2014 they were penalised for the Kovalchuk contract and drafted last in the 1st round. 

 

2012 was Broduers swan song - go they weren’t relevant for awhile before then.  They lost Neidermayer and Stevens retired - Elias too - would you really put their rebuild at 2015?  I don’t.

Edited November 11, 2019 by IBatch

[mll]

23 minutes ago, IBatch said:

 

2012 was Broduers swan song - go they weren’t relevant for awhile before then.  They lost Neidermayer and Stevens retired - Elias too - would you really put their rebuild at 2015?  I don’t.

Lamoriello wasn't rebuilding - he even talked about not doing a rebuild.  He then moved on to Toronto when Shero took over.  Shero moved out veterans and leveraged their cap space for draft picks.  He made several moves to add guys like Hall, Palmieri, Johansson, Mueller and continued to draft.    

 

Edited November 11, 2019 by mll

[Dannydog]

CONTACT on the fore check would help immensely if they are going to dump and chase. Not just blow by with a stick tap on the shins but contact. Hit,roll off, carry on.

[RU SERIOUS]

17 hours ago, burrardstreetbullies said:

Nowell Brown is terrible, I have been banging the table on getting him skidded beginning of last year.    drop passing attempting to gain zone entry every time? just stand up at the blue line and that doesnt work at all.  

 

one point i will mention back in the good ole days with Vinny a slightly slower canucks team then this constantly got breakaways and odd man rushes.  you barely see this today with the current coaching staff we have. 

 

get Guy boucher on the horn the nucks need an offensive coach RIGHT NOW

Don't worry TG and NB are on their last legs.  They were always expected to be "interim" coaches used for rebuild purposes only.   Unless the Canucks succeed into the playoffs, they will both be gone at years end as the Cunucks rebuild has just about reached the point that they're ready for an real - experienced coach.    Be patient  - its all part of the plan!

[Johnny Torts]

I’d rather enter the zone with possession 

[Toyotasfan]

We still don’t have a top 6 , we have 4 of the spots filled. 

Insert any other forward into gaps. Have we tried Schaller with Horvat yet ? I think we tried Motte there last year.  Is Vanek available for a PTO ?

[Westcoasting]

1 hour ago, RU SERIOUS said:

Don't worry TG and NB are on their last legs.  They were always expected to be "interim" coaches used for rebuild purposes only.   Unless the Canucks succeed into the playoffs, they will both be gone at years end as the Cunucks rebuild has just about reached the point that they're ready for an real - experienced coach.    Be patient  - its all part of the plan!

What is the plan exactly? Fire everyone at season's end and start over?

[*Buzzsaw*]

9 hours ago, LowerMainLander18 said:

Deflection into their zone, from what Ive seen, were done for line changes. I don't remember seeing it happen when we are breaking into their zone for attack.

The play that the Defenceman hates the most in a hockey game is when the puck is dumped into the D-zone onto his side. Expecting to get hit like that is the worst feeling. People learn this from Bantam hockey and up. So that offsets goalie's comfort. 

The reason why we dump the puck in is when the D's are NOT cheating. Rather they are jumping up onto our fwds forcing a dump in. 

I am not sure what you have been seeing. But that's how neutral zone trapping works which seems to be a popular method to stop break ins nowadays.

Dump and chase is done to pressure their D's and force a mistake out of them. And estimating the puck possession resulting from it as 1/2 is inaccurate. 

I am not saying Dump and chase should be our prioritized break ins but often I see it happen due to us being clogged in the neutral zone. 

If there is a play where we have to carry the puck in, we do it. Saw plenty. 

People are just caught up with few dump and chase plays and make a bigger deal out of it then it is. 

There is nothing wrong about dump and chase. What's wrong is the first outlet pass and our forwards jetting out of our D-zone, forcing our D's to make a long pass to an already clogged neutral zone. Break out should start in our own zone. 

This is a wrong information. Dump and chase is a double edged sword. Their D's hate it because it wears them down, too. 

Only downside is that our fwds often are not physical enough on them nowadays. 

First, It is wrong to compare ourselves amongst contenders. Our goal is to make the playoffs, first. Let's not jump the gun so much.

Second, Chicago just beat Toronto last night. They played well against us and they are on a roll. Not saying they are good enough to beat us on a given night but just saying that the standings right now across the league has misconceptions. 

I agree.

If they want to use speed and skills to mess up the other team's neutral zone trap, they would need to come back into our own zone and break out together. 

I hate Boston more than any team in the league. But I see them doing it effectively with their skilled guys. 

Colorado does the same thing. I rarely see MacKinnon pick cherries to receive a long outlet pass. He and his line-mates break out from their own zone. 

I am not sure if the Nux fwds are trying to make perfect pass or worry about sending out a blind suicide pass to the middle of the ice but I see those wingers on the wall curl back way too often, sending the puck right back to our D's. Again, this kind of plays, players are responsible just as much as the coaches. 

 

Nope. It's not solely on the coaches. It's also on the first winger that receives the puck on the wall. 

It's so convenient and easy to find an excuse or blame everything on one thing.

But most often, it's a combination of multiple things. Firing Green will suddenly make us into a contender? Absolutely not.

Perhaps it's better to speak out a solution while ranting out (for instance, which coach should be a better fit).  

 

I am not saying Dump and Chase should never be used.... but it should be only one part of the toolkit.

 

This team needs to develop a system for zone entry in possession, and they need to practice it till they are reasonably good.

 

They can't default to shooting or deflecting the puck in every time because it makes the oppositions job much easier.

 

Right now this team is one dimensional in its offensive strategy... and Green needs to start working on a Plan B.

[spook007]

16 hours ago, Warhippy said:

This is all you need to key in to.

 

The Canucks have lost 4 OT games in a row.  Not outright, not blow out losses not completely terrible games but in OT

 

6th in the west, top 5 scoring team in the league.  top 10 GAA and 4-3-3 in their last 10 which could easily be 8-1-1 or 4-6 or some nonsense

 

I think you're seeing demons where there aren't any.  Not sure where everyone else though this team would finish but I was always saying this would be our bubble year and the strides this team has already made have been fun to see.

Thanks...

Amazing how many have forgotten the pre season talk, where the vast majority agreed this season would see us as a bubble team either very close to play offs or just in the play offs...

Ups and downs... life of a young team coming together as a team.

[smokes]

The Canucks losing in November is nothing new. It's been like that for a long time. I blame it on the month.