[Poll] Do you think Canucks need new coaching staff?

[CptCanuck16]

So after a fairly large sample size of 135 votes,  53% agree that there needs to be a coaching change in some form while 47% would like to see things remain as they are. Obviously the fate of the team isn't a democracy but if this is an accurate reflection of the opinions of the overall fanbase I would hope that JB/FA would at least entertain the idea. 

[Roberts]

1 hour ago, coolboarder said:

You might want to wipe the poll and start over with a new poll thread, it was created on Monday before the blown 6-3 lead and too many vocal after the PGT wanting him to be gone.  I'd like to see them with the new poll.

users can still change their vote, there will probably be another similar poll up soon. its sort of a CDC tradition

[*Buzzsaw*]

Total voting for new Staff:  54%

 

Total voting for no change:  46%

 

Personally I think Clarke, the goalie coach should stay, Malhotra should stay, and the rest can go at the end of the season.

 

But getting rid of them now is not a good idea... it is too soon.

 

Benning needs to sit down with Green and tell him in no uncertain terms he needs to re-work his offensive system to allow for more creativity.

 

This is a young team, they need to be able to develop their skills.... they need to learn together... they need to be able to make mistakes because they will learn.

 

Right now they are being stifled by a system which doesn't allow them to use their imaginations.

Edited November 28, 2019 by *Buzzsaw*

[lmm]

5 minutes ago, goalie13 said:

Basically, a coach has only so many tricks up his sleeve to motivate a team.  After a coach has been with a team for a long enough time, he runs out of tricks.  At that point, it is time for a fresh start.  It is rare to see a coach that has been with a team for a long time finally win it all.  It's more typical that a new coach will provide fresh jump to a team and helps take them to another level.

 

Right now the Canucks are not contenders and do not appear to have tuned out the current coaching staff.  I think they are still at least a couple of years worth of maturing and turnover before they start looking like real contenders.  By that time Green will likely have run his course and then a new coach can take the team to the next level.

 

There are exceptions to every rule.

 

I get the feeling aropund here that all coaches deserve 3 years or the length of their contract. 

I think coaches get fired for one of four reasons.

1 as you suggest, they get stale. However, I feel this excuse is used more often than neccesary.

2 They are not suited for the job, bad or inexperienced

3 fired for mistakes by management, (scapegoat)

4 fired with management

examples

1 Marc Crawford- lasted through the WCE era, through the lock out , but fired before the Sedin era started, Fired by Nonis who lasted a couple more years

2 Willie, 

3 AV, lost the room after Gillis + co handed everybody and their cat a NMC or NTC, here is an example of over using the "Lost the Room" excuse for mistakes by management

4 Torts, not the best example because he had other issues, but he was fired within days of the Linden/Benning regime take over.

 

So if Green got fired tomorrow (i doubt he will) or at the end of his contract, what category does he fit into?

 

 

[mll]

On 11/27/2019 at 3:29 AM, CoolCanucklehead said:

How much experience did the Stanley Cup Winner have? Exactly 1 playoff series.

He was named interim coach of a dead last team but yet went on to win it all...

Craig Berube  coaching record...

 

[...]

 

 

He was not a 1st time coach with no prior NHL experience.  Only Brown has NHL experience as assistant coach. Green and Baumgartner came directly from the AHL.  

The Associated Press had an article up this week about how there are very few experienced head coaches available at this point of the season.  Teams have added them to their coaching staff as they see the benefit of having that experience around.   From that article posted below:

 

Of 31 teams, 20 have a former NHL head coach as an assistant and six have more than one. Concerns about having too many cooks in the kitchen are no match for the benefit of having experience dealing with players, handling game situations and scouting opponents.

 

Reirden hired former head coach Scott Arniel without having known him previously - he felt he needed the experience despite having been an assistant coach some 10-11 years.  Montgomery in Dallas has 3 former head coaches as his assistants.  Marc Crawford is working with Colliton in Chicago.  Vigneault has both Yeo and Therrien.  CBJ just added Paul MacLean.   

 

Help not available: NHL staffs brimming with ex-head coaches

Quote

When Kevin Hayes got off to a slow start with the Philadelphia Flyers, coach Alain Vigneault didn’t need to talk to him.

Assistants Mike Yeo and Michel Therrien took care of that. Because each had been an NHL head coach before, Vigneault encourages that direction communication.

 

“There’s a confidence factor with AV [Vigneault] knowing that if we’re going to talk to a player, what we’re saying would be the same message that he would be delivering to that player,” Yeo said. “He wanted people that were comfortable and confident to go up to players, whether it’s correcting, whether it’s reinforcing, whether it’s patting somebody on the back. He wants us to be pro-active about that.”

 

It’s not just Yeo and Therrien. Anyone interested in firing a coach this season is in trouble without a successor lined up because almost every potential candidate already has a job.

 

Of 31 teams, 20 have a former NHL head coach as an assistant and six have more than one. Concerns about having too many cooks in the kitchen are no match for the benefit of having experience dealing with players, handling game situations and scouting opponents.

 

“There’s nothing but positives,” Vigneault said. “I’ve got guys that understand exactly what I’m going through and understand exactly what I mean as far as feedback. Nobody understands a head coach better than a former head coach.”

 

Philadelphia’s three-headed monster is bested only by the Dallas Stars having ex-head coaches John Stevens, Rick Bowness and Todd Nelson on Jim Montgomery’s staff. Unlike Vigneault, who carries with him the gravitas of taking two different teams to the Stanley Cup final, Montgomery is a first-time head coach and isn’t at all bothered by having guys directly reporting to him who have done his job before.

 

“I’m a guy that wants information from other people,” said Montgomery, who’s in his second season as Stars coach. “As much information they can give me before I talk to the team, the better knowledge I’m imparting to the team so that we can have quicker points and get right to what we think’s going to help us win hockey games.”

 

Four of the NHL-tested assistants – Detroit’s Dan Bylsma, Chicago’s Marc Crawford, Anaheim adviser Darryl Sutter and St. Louis part-timer Larry Robinson – have won the Stanley Cup as a head coach, and Sutter did it twice. Many more have connections to championship teams or won in the minors.

 

“There’s a lot of little fires that coaches have to go through – head coaches – and I think when you have a staff with experience, they can put those fires out before they get to you,” said Arizona Coyotes coach Rick Tocchet, who has Phil Housley and John MacLean on his staff.

 

Often, a personal connection is enough to create instant chemistry on a staff. Montgomery and Stevens played together in the American Hockey League and won the Calder Cup in 1998, while Vigneault and Therrien have known each other for two decades.

 

Washington’s Todd Reirden in his first head NHL job wanted an assistant with similar experience and hired Scott Arniel without knowing him. After being on a Pittsburgh Penguins staff under Bylsma with former head coaches Tony Granato and Jacques Martin as fellow assistants, Reirden understands the importance of leaning on someone who’s been there before.

 

“I think I had had 10 or 11 years of assistant or associate coach [experience],” said Reirden, who was Barry Trotz’s top assistant when the Capitals won the Cup in 2018.

“But not being a full-time head coach in this league, and I thought it was important to have someone like Scott that had gone through the same type of thing: Good things that worked for him, in the same breath things that he wished he could do over and positives and negatives we could work on together.”

 

Settling in to life as a lieutenant isn’t always easy for former head coaches.

Therrien hadn’t been an assistant since his first job in junior in the early 1990s, while Stevens is coming off being fired by the Los Angeles Kings less than a year ago.

“When you’re the head coach, you’re used to speaking all the time,” said Stevens, who has coached the Flyers and Kings and won the Cup twice as an assistant with Los Angeles. “As an assistant coach, you’ve got to listen and speak at the right time. ... A coaching staff functions like a team. I think you put egos aside.”

 

Fired almost exactly a year ago as Blues coach – St. Louis went on to win the Cup with replacement Craig Berube – Yeo still sees the game as a head coach but changes his messaging from talking directly to players to whispering down the line to Therrien so Vigneault gets the gist.

 

It could be disconcerting for a young coach to look over his shoulder at one or more potential replacements. But some, such as Montgomery, New York Rangers coach David Quinn with Lindy Ruff and new Toronto Maple Leafs coach Sheldon Keefe with Dave Hakstol could do their jobs even better with some extra experience.

 

Vigneault felt that way during his first job in Montreal in the mid-1990s when he hired Dave King as an assistant. As the CEO behind the bench, he thinks it’s smart for coaches of all ages to take whatever experience they can get.

“As a young coach, it was real beneficial to me,” Vigneault said. “With my experience now, I can probably use them even better than I did when I started.”

 

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, mll said:

 

He was not a 1st time coach with no prior NHL experience.  Only Brown has NHL experience as assistant coach. Green and Baumgartner came directly from the AHL.  

The Associated Press had an article up this week about how there are very few experienced head coaches available at this point of the season.  Teams have added them to their coaching staff as they see the benefit of having that experience around.   From that article posted below:

 

Of 31 teams, 20 have a former NHL head coach as an assistant and six have more than one. Concerns about having too many cooks in the kitchen are no match for the benefit of having experience dealing with players, handling game situations and scouting opponents.

 

Reirden hired former head coach Scott Arniel without having known him previously - he felt he needed the experience despite having been an assistant coach some 10-11 years.  Montgomery in Dallas has 3 former head coaches as his assistants.  Marc Crawford is working with Colliton in Chicago.  Vigneault has both Yeo and Therrien.  CBJ just added Paul MacLean.   

 

Help not available: NHL staffs brimming with ex-head coaches

 

Pretty sure Larry Robinson was also part of St Louis club last year - largely regarded as one of the best players coaches the last couple decades - Paul McLean is another players coach that the article talks about recently hired in CLB.   Cool article.   Not sure why the NHL teams think they need so much help running a room but kudos to the clubs that are stockpiling talent in this way, makes it easy to find a new coach from within .... it also makes it much harder for teams looking for a new coach to find a good experienced one too.   For those hoping we can fire Green and snap our fingers and get a good replacement with NHL experience (and one with a winning record)...well I guess maybe Babcock is available ha ha.   Also a lot of names on this list that I wouldn’t want either.  Yeo and McLean being two of them for sure, Crow (been there done that) ... Therrien would be ok I guess.  

 

Like it or not - Vancouver would have to wait until the annual purges are over at the end of the year before playing musical regurgitation with another team (swap coaches).  Unless we tank horribly  I don’t think TG will be without work again in this league if he loses his job.  We win he’s great and learning on the job (WSH game), we lose he’s a bum.  

 

[StiffStick33]

ideally Id like to clone Barry trotz

[goalie13]

7 hours ago, lmm said:

So if Green got fired tomorrow (i doubt he will) or at the end of his contract, what category does he fit into?

I don't think he will either, but when he eventually does get fired, I think it will fit into your excuse #1.  He will be stale and have used up all his tricks.

 

I just hope that when the time comes there is someone available that will be a great fit to take the team to the next level.

[DownUndaCanuck]

As much as I like Baumer as a person, we need to really be more solid on the back end and lately we've been giving up big leads and big goals far too often. It's been a combination of bad defensive play and bad goaltending to be fair but we need better structural defensive play. 6 goals against in the third is laughable and now we've blown two massive leads to two strong offences. This team will get shelled against playoff teams.

 

On paper we've got the pieces, we just need a good structure that they can sit in to. Our offence is fine clearly, our PP (as much as people hate it) has been top-5 in the league all year and our PK isn't terrible but out defence and goaltending has been victimized too often. 

[GB5]

I think that Green and team excel at developing young players and bringing them into the fold. I think they are good to stay on at least until the end of the season.

Eventually though, this team will need to move on and find someone who will take them to the next level and be able to hold a lead, play 60 minutes and win in the playoffs.

 

I know that ownership wants the playoffs now but this is a young developing team so I am patient to allow them to keep developing.....at least for another 55 games or so and then we'll see at season's end.

[snucks]

So they blew a 6-3 lead in the 3rd period when they had come back from a 2 goal deficit in the 1st period. This tells me that coaching told the team to play defense in the 3rd instead of continuing to play offense. This team has great goal tending but the D is very weak. Green seems to favour sitting on leads. The game was lost because of some D standing around puck watching. The best defense is strong offense but Canuck coaching has always stifled attacking minded players. When the oilers had Gretsky they got scored on but they overcame that by scoring lots of goals. The coach is still learning to coach in the big league, but he needs to let the team attack. I

[canuck2288]

On 11/26/2019 at 7:11 AM, Bertuzzi44ever said:

Yes! Lets us set us back ten years.

 

 

 

 

 

10 years ago we were in the playoffs 

 

Pretty sure Green is not leading us anywhere 

 

will now be 3 years and no playoffs 

[CanadianRugby]

On 11/26/2019 at 7:36 AM, Jimmy McGill said:

what? you mean its hard to win games without Beagle, Sutter, Roussel and Ferland in our lineup? fire everyone!!! 

Except the Pens were missing much better players. 

[Timråfan]

16 hours ago, IBatch said:

 Not sure why the NHL teams think they need so much help running a room

 

You only have so much time. More than one quality coach means that the head coach can relax and look at other aspects. 

 

16 hours ago, IBatch said:

 it also makes it much harder for teams looking for a new coach to find a good experienced one too.   For those hoping we can fire Green and snap our fingers and get a good replacement with NHL experience (and one with a winning record)...

I don't think it's problem. 

Greens position is wanted by those who want to work with a hot team on the rise. 

 

16 hours ago, IBatch said:

 

well I guess maybe Babcock is available ha ha.   

A big No to him. 

[lmm]

15 hours ago, goalie13 said:

I don't think he will either, but when he eventually does get fired, I think it will fit into your excuse #1.  He will be stale and have used up all his tricks.

 

I just hope that when the time comes there is someone available that will be a great fit to take the team to the next level.

I guess I can infer from that statement that you think Green has more tricks in his bag, and that he has used more than the one I have seen to date.

That is where we differ.

 

Let me know when he dips into that bag of tricks and pulls out a new one will you?

I suppose if I am honest, he has used two tricks so far, bench the new guy and line blender.

[PhillipBlunt]

4 minutes ago, lmm said:

I guess I can infer from that statement that you think Green has more tricks in his bag, and that he has used more than the one I have seen to date.

That is where we differ.

 

Let me know when he dips into that bag of tricks and pulls out a new one will you?

I suppose if I am honest, he has used two tricks so far, bench the new guy and line blender.

He’s got a few other tricks:
 

The Castlegar Conundrum  

 

Slap a Chickenhawk and see what happens

 

The Brown and BumGardener Boilerplate

[spook007]

This poll is like watching Brexit in the UK...

There is close to a 50/50 split (slight majority in favour of breaking it up), but the folks that wants to break it up don't agree on how...

 

Interesting...

Edited November 29, 2019 by spook007

[Ajax-]

I read all the pundits that want TG, NB, fired ASAP, OK, if your really serious please put your constructive suggestions for their replacement??

 

Who is available right now to take over coaching? Head coach, assistants?

 

 

[Ajax-]

19 hours ago, snucks said:

So they blew a 6-3 lead in the 3rd period when they had come back from a 2 goal deficit in the 1st period. This tells me that coaching told the team to play defense in the 3rd instead of continuing to play offense. This team has great goal tending but the D is very weak. Green seems to favour sitting on leads. The game was lost because of some D standing around puck watching. The best defense is strong offense but Canuck coaching has always stifled attacking minded players. When the oilers had Gretsky they got scored on but they overcame that by scoring lots of goals. The coach is still learning to coach in the big league, but he needs to let the team attack. I

Weak ? I thought our new defence was stronger, deeper, more balanced, you don't agree??

Edited November 29, 2019 by AbrasiveAjax
sp

[Ajax-]

19 hours ago, snucks said:

So they blew a 6-3 lead in the 3rd period when they had come back from a 2 goal deficit in the 1st period. This tells me that coaching told the team to play defense in the 3rd instead of continuing to play offense. This team has great goal tending but the D is very weak. Green seems to favour sitting on leads. The game was lost because of some D standing around puck watching. The best defense is strong offense but Canuck coaching has always stifled attacking minded players. When the oilers had Gretsky they got scored on but they overcame that by scoring lots of goals. The coach is still learning to coach in the big league, but he needs to let the team attack. I

the game was not lost only because some D standing around puck watching, that is a rather narrow view snucks

 

Dude, the whole team collapsed, forwards, defence and goalie