[Proposal] Trade JM to either TO MT for a 1sr OR whatever we c

[IBatch]

Some might have noticed a recent article on NHL.com about how both TO and MTL are suffering because their back-ups just can't get it done.

 

For TO this could be their last year in quite some time where their cap won't really interfere with any playoff aspirations and a rental makes a lot of sense.  

 

 JM more then fits the bill, he would provide reliable back-up duties like a middling number one which he is now, and could also carry the team if Andersson goes down.  They've changed the coach - not much has changed now it's time for them to make a trade and it wouldn't be too hard to fit him in under the cap - might have to add a bit (us) and involve a player swap to get it done.  

 

MTL it could work too.  We can't afford to sign JM long term and risk getting saddled with a bad contract with Demko and MD in the wings and the expansion draft coming up.   Both these clubs are current targets - and with the way the seasons going for us it would put us in a sink or swim position.   And by the end of the year management  would know how much TD can handle the job and what sort of back-up they could target in the off-season.

 

edit:  I just added to the title for a first OR whatever we can.   I don't think everyone gets it - that we are either going to have to double down on JM (Markstrom) and trade Demko - let JM walk (fair chance of that) because he's out priced himself - or somehow work with two number ones which doesn't really work and hasn't for a very, very long time (and we need the cap space).  

 

Go back a few years and review PIT situation.   They had MAF under a fair contract but couldn't fit him and Murray under the cap long term.  They tried for a year to shop him - NOBODY took him.   If they had enough foresight they would have done it earlier but wanted him for insurance and it turned out great because they won another cup.   Then they had to pay Vegas a second rounder just to take him off their hands.  

 

I really don't see the logic at all with re-signing JM given his age and that so far TD can do what he can at his best.  Sure maybe it's early and I'd actually love it if we could afford to run with both of them long term (which we could if we abandoned the idea of adding another core guy - say a top four defenseman or top six forward).    This is the same guy that almost broke the record of 132 game without a shut out.  He's not a game changer or a guy that will stand on his head and not let anything in.  He's a mediocre number one.   Both McKenna (a throw away) and Nilsson have found success since leaving last year.  How hard is it to find a guy like that and trade for them?  

 

Also buy low sell high.  IF their is any stomach for it now or over the next couple months is the time to do it.   We don't have to throw the baby out with the bath water and scuttle the season either.   Worse case scenario IMO is re-signing him and he becomes completely untradeable.  

 

Also - MODS - I don't make a lot of threads and can't seem to add. Tag have tried three times. Can you please add Discussion to it for me?

Edited December 6, 2019 by IBatch

[qwijibo]

Montreal literally just brought up they’re highly touted goalie prospect Primeau yesterday after waiving Kinkaid. He looked nervous early against a powerhouse Colorado team, but then locked  it down.  I’m pretty sure they’ll give him a good look before doing anything.  
 

Besides that, rental goalies don’t generally return 1st round picks. You need to go all the way back to Ryan Miller to St Louis to find an example of one. And he was a recent Vezina winner.  
 

Also, the draft is in Montreal this year.  No way Bergevin moves their 1st out for a rental goalie when they have Price locked up long term. 
 

 

[mll]

Toronto has no cap space.  They are running with 21 players and no extra.  They wouldn't even be able to add Markstrom at 50% retained.   Their backup is a 700K cap hit. 

 

Sounds like they want to try and extend him.  Friedman in his latest 31 thoughts writes:

 

23. It’s been a difficult time for Jacob Markstrom, who missed Tuesday’s game against Ottawa to attend his father’s service. Through that, he has continued to play at a high level. He’s an unrestricted free agent, and contract talks are expected to begin in the next little while. As big as term and dollars always are, the Seattle expansion draft looms large over this, too. 

 

Edited December 6, 2019 by mll

[Ghostsof1915]

You don't trade your goalie when you don't know if your backup can handle the load yet. 

[Drakrami]

lol on mutiple levels. 

 

No way Toronto will go 2 year without a 1st round pick, remember they already traded away 1 with Marleau trade. 

And you have pondered, if we traded away Markstrom, we are actually in a worse situation than Toronto/Montreal? At least they backups, we have none lol. Not to mention our starter hasn't even been tested yet for a full season. Unless you are saying we are throwing this season away when we are obviously chasing for a playoff spot? 

[CRAZY_4_NAZZY]

Took me a while to understand who "JM" was.

 

Perhaps use his full name for posters who aren't so quick like me lol

[Crabcakes]

Who becomes the Canucks back up?  DiPietro has a 0.708 save % in his 1 NHL game.  I know, small sample size 

 

The Canucks are more than a year away from this conversation.  Nothing needs to be done until the expansion draft is approaching.  Re-signing Markstrom is a red herring.  Until then, you don't make your strength a weakness.  That's bad asset management.

[-SN-]

Note: Tags are mandatory only in the Trades, Rumours, Signings forum and in the Proposals and Armchair GM'ing forum.

[Master Higgins]

1 hour ago, Drakrami said:

lol on mutiple levels. 

 

No way Toronto will go 2 year without a 1st round pick, remember they already traded away 1 with Marleau trade. 

And you have pondered, if we traded away Markstrom, we are actually in a worse situation than Toronto/Montreal? At least they backups, we have none lol. Not to mention our starter hasn't even been tested yet for a full season. Unless you are saying we are throwing this season away when we are obviously chasing for a playoff spot? 

TO’s last year 1st got traded for muzzin. So it would be 3 years of no firsts. 

[Nucker 67]

Maybe if the Canucks were tanking, but they're trying to make the playoffs, so no.

[smokes]

What is is with us and always wanting to trade away the number one goalie? Did it with Luongo now with Markstrom. And this time Markstrom is actually playing well.

[qwijibo]

I don’t think any GM in their right mind uses a 1st to address the back up goalie position.  I can’t imagine a bigger waste of a prime asset than to blow a 1st on a pending UFA goalie 1/3 into the season. He’d end up playing what? Maybe 15 games? 

[coastal.view]

47 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

I don’t think any GM in their right mind uses a 1st to address the back up goalie position.  I can’t imagine a bigger waste of a prime asset than to blow a 1st on a pending UFA goalie 1/3 into the season. He’d end up playing what? Maybe 15 games? 

the premise of a majority of trades proposed on here though

is that the other gm is a fool

i thought you knew that already

[qwijibo]

Just now, coastal.view said:

the premise of a majority of trades proposed on here though

is that the other gm is a fool

i thought you knew that already

Lol. Valid point 

[diesel_3]

7 minutes ago, coastal.view said:

the premise of a majority of trades proposed on here though

is that the other gm is a fool

i thought you knew that already

You can always find out which players had good nights the day before because there are always proposals that would obtain said player, for our trash, of course. 

[VegasCanuck]

3 hours ago, IBatch said:

Some might have noticed a recent article on NHL.com about how both TO and MTL are suffering because their back-ups just can't get it done.

 

For TO this could be their last year in quite some time where their cap won't really interfere with any playoff aspirations and a rental makes a lot of sense.  

 

 JM more then fits the bill, he would provide reliable back-up duties like a middling number one which he is now, and could also carry the team if Andersson goes down.  They've changed the coach - not much has changed now it's time for them to make a trade and it wouldn't be too hard to fit him in under the cap - might have to add a bit (us) and involve a player swap to get it done.  

 

MTL it could work too.  We can't afford to sign JM long term and risk getting saddled with a bad contract with Demko and MD in the wings and the expansion draft coming up.   Both these clubs are current targets - and with the way the seasons going for us it would put us in a sink or swim position.   And by the end of the year management  would know how much TD can handle the job and what sort of back-up they could target in the off-season.

#1, You're making a big assumption that we can't afford to sign Markstrom to a long term deal, we do have room to work with, it will be tight, but there is room there for a guy who will likely be around 5 million per if he keeps playing like he is.

#2, When we traded a 1st and a 3rd to Tampa for J.T. Miller, we  signaled to the team, Horvat, Pettersson, Boeser, Hughes etc, that we are ready to compete and that management has faith in their ability to make the playoffs and challenge. With that in mind, why would you EVERY trade away our starting goalie and go with someone unproven? It would be sending mixed messages to the players. Are we moving out of rebuild or back into it???

 

We have the core talent and depth necessary to be a competitive team in today's NHL. Yes, we have been struggling the last couple of weeks, mainly due to missing too many guys through center, guys who make our penalty killing work and keep too much workload off Horvat.

 

PLEASE, stop trying to trade away talent. There are SOOOO many people on this board with a bad case of "Shiny thing syndrome", who would be happy if we were in perpetual rebuild, just so the can constantly debate who the best player is to take in the coming draft.

 

We are in compete mode, we need to act like it!

[JM_]

4 hours ago, IBatch said:

Some might have noticed a recent article on NHL.com about how both TO and MTL are suffering because their back-ups just can't get it done.

 

For TO this could be their last year in quite some time where their cap won't really interfere with any playoff aspirations and a rental makes a lot of sense.  

 

 JM more then fits the bill, he would provide reliable back-up duties like a middling number one which he is now, and could also carry the team if Andersson goes down.  They've changed the coach - not much has changed now it's time for them to make a trade and it wouldn't be too hard to fit him in under the cap - might have to add a bit (us) and involve a player swap to get it done.  

 

MTL it could work too.  We can't afford to sign JM long term and risk getting saddled with a bad contract with Demko and MD in the wings and the expansion draft coming up.   Both these clubs are current targets - and with the way the seasons going for us it would put us in a sink or swim position.   And by the end of the year management  would know how much TD can handle the job and what sort of back-up they could target in the off-season.

I don't mind the idea of a Marky trade in theory, at all, if the return is this good. I do think Demko is the guy that will be the #1 when this team is a legitimate force in 2-3 seasons. In the meantime Demko + a shorter term UFA "B" backup would be just fine and fit our cap needs better. 

 

@mll wouldn't TO have TDL day cap space for this? 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

Vancouver has a better record than both Toronto and Montreal.  We are in a playoff battle and working to get some veterans back from injury.  We need Markstrom more than Toronto and Montreal does as he's currently our starting goalie.  Not sure why Benning would literally throw away the entire season to get an asset for our starting goalie.  The fans would literally revolt against Benning.

 

Our goal is to make the playoffs this year, not trade our top veteran players for picks and prospects.  We've done that for 5 years.  This year is the year we take the next step.

[IBatch]

33 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I don't mind the idea of a Marky trade in theory, at all, if the return is this good. I do think Demko is the guy that will be the #1 when this team is a legitimate force in 2-3 seasons. In the meantime Demko + a shorter term UFA "B" backup would be just fine and fit our cap needs better. 

 

@mll wouldn't TO have TDL day cap space for this? 

 

They could make it work by either shortening the bench or including a support player swap that gives them the space...Leivo is the perfect guy for that - in truth even though it's funny.   Babcock wrote him off completely - Keefe who probably knows him better might have a different view.

[JM_]

6 minutes ago, IBatch said:

They could make it work by either shortening the bench or including a support player swap that gives them the space...Leivo is the perfect guy for that - in truth even though it's funny.   Babcock wrote him off completely - Keefe who probably knows him better might have a different view.

I was asking mll about the tdl cap space thing because according to cap friendly they say the Leaves have 1.2 mil in tdl space to make a move then. If we retained 50% of Marky and took back Hutchinson thats enough room for them to fit in Marky. 

 

I'd have to think about it more in terms of if its really worth it (and compare it to the actual deal Marky is looking for)  but in theory I do think this is possible on TDL day. 

 

If Marky is looking at a very team friendly deal it might not be worth it. But if he and his agent are looking to really cash in and want expansion protection then that would change things for me to look to move him if it meant a late 1st and a prospect back. 

 

Edited December 6, 2019 by Jimmy McGill