[Proposal] Trade JM to either TO MT for a 1sr OR whatever we c

[IBatch]

35 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Vancouver has a better record than both Toronto and Montreal.  We are in a playoff battle and working to get some veterans back from injury.  We need Markstrom more than Toronto and Montreal does as he's currently our starting goalie.  Not sure why Benning would literally throw away the entire season to get an asset for our starting goalie.  The fans would literally revolt against Benning.

 

Our goal is to make the playoffs this year, not trade our top veteran players for picks and prospects.  We've done that for 5 years.  This year is the year we take the next step.

Believe me I get it.   But what would you rather have - the next 2/3 of a season be a nail biter that id say 50/50 odds of us making the playoffs the way things have gone so far - and then sign possibly sign JM to a 5.5 x 5 year deal that likely becomes an anchor that's impossible to trade and literally blocks Demko - (sorry but I don't buy that Seattle will take him one bit.  Holtby and other more proven number ones will be available) -  OR be pro-active (instead of reacting to what is likely to come) - and trade JM while we actually can ( not a chance in a million years we will be able to after he's signed), get something back for him and then find a cheap proven vet like Elliot to teach Demko the ropes?   

 

Playoffs are not a foregone conclusion at all right now- even with a healthy team.  SJ looks unstoppable right now and is playing to the peak of their powers, Vegas is just getting started (and they are better on paper by far then they've ever been), EDM is riding prime McDavid and Drasaitl all the way to the show and the other division is probably better.  Plus ARI.  

 

Yeah playoffs would be great - but do you really think if we traded JM things would be much different?  Maybe.  This is a learning year and with the ED looming the team needs to back the horse they are going with.  Maybe their plans are to keep them both which isn't the worst one in the world - but personally another first (quite possibly a lottery ticket even) in this years draft will go a long way and is greater by far then losing JM for nothing this summer - or even worse and a long term deal. 

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, qwijibo said:

Montreal literally just brought up they’re highly touted goalie prospect Primeau yesterday after waiving Kinkaid. He looked nervous early against a powerhouse Colorado team, but then locked  it down.  I’m pretty sure they’ll give him a good look before doing anything.  
 

Besides that, rental goalies don’t generally return 1st round picks. You need to go all the way back to Ryan Miller to St Louis to find an example of one. And he was a recent Vezina winner.  
 

Also, the draft is in Montreal this year.  No way Bergevin moves their 1st out for a rental goalie when they have Price locked up long term. 
 

 

Great points.  You just never know - depends on how desperate teams get - but I definitely think TO is a good trade partner which is why I concentrated on them.

[IBatch]

42 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Vancouver has a better record than both Toronto and Montreal.  We are in a playoff battle and working to get some veterans back from injury.  We need Markstrom more than Toronto and Montreal does as he's currently our starting goalie.  Not sure why Benning would literally throw away the entire season to get an asset for our starting goalie.  The fans would literally revolt against Benning.

 

Our goal is to make the playoffs this year, not trade our top veteran players for picks and prospects.  We've done that for 5 years.  This year is the year we take the next step.

Believe me I get it.   But what would you rather have - the next 2/3 of a season be a nail biter that id say 50/50 odds of us making the playoffs the way things have gone so far - and then sign possibly sign JM to a 5.5 x 5 year deal that likely becomes an anchor that's impossible to trade and literally blocks Demko - (sorry but I don't buy that Seattle will take him one bit.  Holtby and other more proven number ones will be available) -  OR be pro-active (instead of reacting to what is likely to come) - and trade JM while we actually can ( not a chance in a million years we will be able to after he's signed), get something back for him and then find a cheap proven vet like Elliot to teach Demko the ropes?   

 

Playoffs are not a foregone conclusion at all right now- even with a healthy team.  SJ looks unstoppable right now and is playing to the peak of their powers, Vegas is just getting started (and they are better on paper by far then they've ever been), EDM is riding prime McDavid and Drasaitl all the way to the show and the other division is probably better.  Plus ARI.  

 

Yeah playoffs would be great - but do you really think if we traded JM and acquired a decent 

[Lancaster]

If someone is offering a 1st rounder for Markstrom... take it and run.  

 

As good as Markstrom is, he is still unproven in the post-season.  He did play very good with Utica in their Calder Cup run, but the NHL is a different beast.  Not saying Demko is automatically the guy, but since Jacob is already 29 years old, he may only have another 5 years left of high level hockey in him.  

Unless Markstrom really enjoys staying in Vancouver and is willing to take a team friendly contract (5 million x 5 years, limited NTC for a few of those years), it will be better to start thinking about succession planning.  

 

Having Demko as the "goalie of the future" and then have a very competent and established backup goalie (a few millions in cap space saved can be used to bolster the team) isn't a bad way to hold down the fort should another team really want Markstrom.  

[mll]

2 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I don't mind the idea of a Marky trade in theory, at all, if the return is this good. I do think Demko is the guy that will be the #1 when this team is a legitimate force in 2-3 seasons. In the meantime Demko + a shorter term UFA "B" backup would be just fine and fit our cap needs better. 

 

@mll wouldn't TO have TDL day cap space for this? 

 

Not unless they have players with a high enough cap hit on LTIR or trade one of their higher paid players.

 

Cap is also pro-rated.  Toronto is operating right at the cap.  Halfway through the season a player's cap hit is half but the cap space remaining is also half.  

 

I've posted right before they've put Johnsson on LTIR - him going on LTIR creates some additional cap space provided he stays on LTIR for the remaining of the season - he's not expected to though.   He blocked a shot.  

 

Toronto has several contracts between 700-900K.  They would need to trade too many of those to create the cap room and will no longer have a 20 player roster.  The only way to get the necessary cap to add is to trade a higher paid player but those are the guys they seem to want to retain.  Do they want to trade Ceci, Hyman, Kapanen etc.  

 

Edited December 6, 2019 by mll

[mll]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Great points.  You just never know - depends on how desperate teams get - but I definitely think TO is a good trade partner which is why I concentrated on them.

They don't have the cap space.   Teams can't go below a 20 player roster.  There's no indication that Toronto is interested in moving Kapanen, Johnsson etc.  

[JM_]

24 minutes ago, mll said:

Not unless they have someone on LTIR or trade one of their higher paid players.

 

Cap is also pro-rated.  Toronto is operating right at the cap.  Halfway through the season a player's cap hit is half but the cap space remaining is also half.  

 

I've posted right before they've put Johnsson on LTIR - him going on LTIR creates some additional cap space provided he stays on LTIR for the remaining of the season - he's not expected to though.   He blocked a shot.  

 

Toronto has several contracts between 700-900K.  They would need to trade too many of those to create the cap room and will no longer have a 20 player roster.  The only way to get the necessary cap to add is to trade a higher paid player but those are the guys they seem to want to retain.  Do they want to trade Ceci, Hyman, Kapanen etc.  

 

I guess I don't understand what cap friendly means by TDL cap space - this is what they say the Leafs have: DEADLINE CAP SPACE Tooltip : $1,267,017

 

So if we retained 50% of Marky's 3,666,667 = 1,833,334 and took back Hutchison at 0.700 why doesn't that work for the Leaves? the deal would leave TO 133k under the cap and the same number of roster players.

 

 

[mll]

20 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I guess I don't understand what cap friendly means by TDL cap space - this is what they say the Leafs have: DEADLINE CAP SPACE Tooltip : $1,267,017

 

So if we retained 50% of Marky's 3,666,667 = 1,833,334 and took back Hutchison at 0.700 why doesn't that work for the Leaves? the deal would leave TO 133k under the cap and the same number of roster players.

 

 

They only have that cap space because Johnsson was put on LTIR today but that is only temporary.   He's not expected out the full season - he blocked a shot.  Earlier today their deadline cap space was maybe around 40K iirc.  They will need to clear cap to activate Johnsson once he is ready to return - they will re-evaluate after the Christmas break.      

 

You can see here that they have no LTIR days yet for Johnsson but he is marked as on LTIR - it happened today.  https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/mapleleafs/cap-tracker

CapFriendly shows the Canucks with over 4.5M in deadline cap space but once Sutter and Ferland come off LTIR that number will go down significantly - it's only because they are on LTIR.

 

Edited December 6, 2019 by mll

[Vinny in Vancouver]

This is definitely arguable, but imho, Markstrom has been the defensive MVP for the Canucks this season. He rarely gives up bad goals (the only game I remember was his first-game back from when his father passed away) and some of his saves have been downright filthy thefts. Without Markstrom, I predict the Canucks are a lottery team. As for overall MVP, imho, it's a toss-up between Markstrom, Bo (two-way game), Petey (creating something out of nothing; PP), and Miller (just clutch everywhere).

Edited December 6, 2019 by vinny_in_vancouver

[Nave]

Trading Markstrom would be foolish. We got a good thing going with the Markstrom - Demko tandem. 

[IBatch]

53 minutes ago, mll said:

Not unless they have players with a high enough cap hit on LTIR or trade one of their higher paid players.

 

Cap is also pro-rated.  Toronto is operating right at the cap.  Halfway through the season a player's cap hit is half but the cap space remaining is also half.  

 

I've posted right before they've put Johnsson on LTIR - him going on LTIR creates some additional cap space provided he stays on LTIR for the remaining of the season - he's not expected to though.   He blocked a shot.  

 

Toronto has several contracts between 700-900K.  They would need to trade too many of those to create the cap room and will no longer have a 20 player roster.  The only way to get the necessary cap to add is to trade a higher paid player but those are the guys they seem to want to retain.  Do they want to trade Ceci, Hyman, Kapanen etc.  

 

Yes they are near the cap.  AJ isn't that bad so if they do put him there it won't be for long.  JM cap hit is pretty easy to accommodate and retain plus a support player.  OR if they aren't interested look elsewhere.   The point of the thread is to discuss what we should do with Markstrom too.   I really don't think re-signing him makes any sense unless management doesn't have the confidence in Demko.  It's one or the other in the long haul - maybe it's Demko who's been shopped or should be shopped.  Can they afford Demko?

[Tre Mac]

You guys can question trading Marky all you want but I see a reality where he walks for nothing.  You do not sign him long-term and why would he and his agent accept a short-term deal knowing he can be exposed to Seattle?  Benning is going to have to nail this and honestly I don't think he's capable of doing that.  

[IBatch]

8 minutes ago, NaveJoseph said:

Trading Markstrom would be foolish. We got a good thing going with the Markstrom - Demko tandem. 

What do you think about signing Markstrom long term?  Is that foolish?  You know this is only a one year thing right.

[mll]

19 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Yes they are near the cap.  AJ isn't that bad so if they do put him there it won't be for long.  JM cap hit is pretty easy to accommodate and retain plus a support player.  OR if they aren't interested look elsewhere.   The point of the thread is to discuss what we should do with Markstrom too.   I really don't think re-signing him makes any sense unless management doesn't have the confidence in Demko.  It's one or the other in the long haul - maybe it's Demko who's been shopped or should be shopped.  Can they afford Demko?

 

Toronto has several players between 700-800K to complete their roster but they are still right at the cap while operating with only some 20 maybe 21 roster players.  To add Markstrom at 50% they have to remove 3 of those 700-800K players which puts them under the 20 player minimum roster.  It doesn't work unless they trade someone with a higher cap hit or have someone else on LTIR.  

 

It sounds like the Canucks are looking to extend Markstrom per Friedman.

 

Edited December 6, 2019 by mll

[BigTramFan]

28 minutes ago, mll said:

 

Toronto has several players between 700-800K to complete their roster but they are still right at the cap while operating with only some 20 maybe 21 roster players.  To add Markstrom at 50% they have to remove 3 of those 700-800K players which puts them under the 20 player minimum roster.  It doesn't work unless they trade someone with a higher cap hit or have someone else on LTIR.  

 

It sounds like the Canucks are looking to extend Markstrom per Friedman.

 

I personally want to keep Markstrom. As you say, a deal with TOR would need to be assets for assets (unlikely picks being moved) because we are both at cap limit.

One possible trade idea, with fair values IMO, but which is unlikely to go ahead from either teams perspective would be:

 

To TOR: Marky (50% retained), Stecher 

 

To VAN: Barrie, Mikheyev, Hutchinson

 

$4.158m cap in for TOR

$4.375m cap out for TOR

[JM_]

1 hour ago, mll said:

They only have that cap space because Johnsson was put on LTIR today but that is only temporary.   He's not expected out the full season - he blocked a shot.  Earlier today their deadline cap space was maybe around 40K iirc.  They will need to clear cap to activate Johnsson once he is ready to return - they will re-evaluate after the Christmas break.      

 

You can see here that they have no LTIR days yet for Johnsson but he is marked as on LTIR - it happened today.  https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/mapleleafs/cap-tracker

CapFriendly shows the Canucks with over 4.5M in deadline cap space but once Sutter and Ferland come off LTIR that number will go down significantly - it's only because they are on LTIR.

 

ah OK thanks for that. 

 

 

 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 hour ago, mll said:

Teams can't go below a 20 player roster.

Flamers did for a short time I believe a few years ago.  League predictably did nothing.

 

Now if it were the Canucks, you better believe Buttman would've brought the hammer down on us.

[BrockBoester]

7 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

You don't trade your goalie when you don't know if your backup can handle the load yet. 

Especially if your goalie is a Swedish Monster named Jacob Markstrom

[IBatch]

7 hours ago, mll said:

Toronto has no cap space.  They are running with 21 players and no extra.  They wouldn't even be able to add Markstrom at 50% retained.   Their backup is a 700K cap hit. 

 

Sounds like they want to try and extend him.  Friedman in his latest 31 thoughts writes:

 

23. It’s been a difficult time for Jacob Markstrom, who missed Tuesday’s game against Ottawa to attend his father’s service. Through that, he has continued to play at a high level. He’s an unrestricted free agent, and contract talks are expected to begin in the next little while. As big as term and dollars always are, the Seattle expansion draft looms large over this, too. 

 

They could swap Stetcher and Ceci...maybe a little retention..it's possible depending on if both clubs want to make a deal.  

[BrockBoester]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

They could swap Stetcher and Ceci...maybe a little retention..it's possible depending on if both clubs want to make a deal.  

But he'd smell like Toronto