Canada loses 71,200 jobs in the biggest drop in employment in a decade

[JM_]

1 hour ago, Ryan Strome said:

How on earth did Canada even have any businesses here before him? 

 well i wouldn't go that far.

 

But in terms of what Canada got for its debt, its a pretty safe argument that we got the most benefit under BM. Too bad he had to go brown bag some payments at the end there to destroy his reputation. 

[Standing_Tall#37]

On 12/6/2019 at 7:07 PM, SabreFan1 said:

Thanks for the perspective.  I didn't realize that Canada's job market had huge swings like this.  I'll edit my original post.

What they’re not mentioning is most of the jobs created are most likely minimum wage jobs whereas the ones lost are heavy in the forestry and oil industries(which are $100,000-$200,000/year) 

[bishopshodan]

7 minutes ago, Standing_Tall#37 said:

What they’re not mentioning is most of the jobs created are most likely minimum wage jobs whereas the ones lost are heavy in the forestry and oil industries(which are $100,000-$200,000/year) 

Is there a breakdown of how many were part time vs full time jobs in the 71k lost?

 

I ran a few businesses in the city until last month. I've moved to the country! Anyway month vs month numbers ( KPI's)  didn't worry me as much if there was a reason and the yr vs yr was doing ok.

 

That said, seeing a drop is never good. Hard to lose a job at this time of the year.

 

Edit: there was a previous up tick due to election hiring...according to article..

Some of the losses in the month were in public administration, which saw a pickup last month due to election-related hiring

Edited December 8, 2019 by bishopshodan

[Boudrias]

1 hour ago, SabreFan1 said:

It was the case under every president after Bill Clinton.  Dubya lost jobs overall after steering the world into a recession I believe, low paying jobs were a big problem with Obama, and continues with Trump.  Also, the unemployment numbers get slightly artificially deflated because of the way they define unemployment.

Once your unemployment runs out then you are dropped off the stats. IMO a more reliable number is the participation %. I believe Canada is slightly higher than the USA.  

[SabreFan1]

8 hours ago, Standing_Tall#37 said:

What they’re not mentioning is most of the jobs created are most likely minimum wage jobs whereas the ones lost are heavy in the forestry and oil industries(which are $100,000-$200,000/year) 

Same as the US. Good jobs leave, crap jobs replace them.  That's one of the reasons why there are so many working poor.

Edited December 9, 2019 by SabreFan1

[SabreFan1]

8 hours ago, Boudrias said:

Once your unemployment runs out then you are dropped off the stats. IMO a more reliable number is the participation %. I believe Canada is slightly higher than the USA.  

Yep.  It's always bothered me how they do that and then pretend that those people magically got jobs.

[Boudrias]

11 hours ago, SabreFan1 said:

Yep.  It's always bothered me how they do that and then pretend that those people magically got jobs.

It is a more difficult approach but does not have a political bias as both USA parties use it. Again IMO the participation rate is a more relevant number. A more accurate reflection even tho much harder for casual observers to appreciate. While the USA participation rate has improved during the Trump era Canada is still slightly better. Neither of these numbers addresses the quality of jobs which is more detail than most people want to consider. 

[nuckin_futz]

On 12/8/2019 at 9:18 AM, Standing_Tall#37 said:

What they’re not mentioning is most of the jobs created are most likely minimum wage jobs whereas the ones lost are heavy in the forestry and oil industries(which are $100,000-$200,000/year) 

CAD wages have been rising gradually. No doubt well paying jobs in the oil patch have disappeared since 2015 when oil prices plummeted. But if it were truly a problem wages overall would be stagnant or in decline.

 

 

[aGENT]

16 hours ago, SabreFan1 said:

Same as the US. Good jobs leave, crap jobs replace them.  That's one of the reasons why there are so many working poor.

That likely has far more to do with automating jobs away and the vast majority of manufacturing moving to China etc than whichever flavour happens to be in power in either country.

 

 

[Boudrias]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

That likely has far more to do with automating jobs away and the vast majority of manufacturing moving to China etc than whichever flavour happens to be in power in either country.

 

 

I remember reading Steve Jobs book. Apparently he told Bush or maybe Obama that he would hire 100,000 tech engineers immediately if they were available. Schools weren’t producing enough of them. That shortfall is now 1 million I believe. India produces lots of engineers and we wonder why we are sliding behind. 

[aGENT]

18 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

I remember reading Steve Jobs book. Apparently he told Bush or maybe Obama that he would hire 100,000 tech engineers immediately if they were available. Schools weren’t producing enough of them. That shortfall is now 1 million I believe. India produces lots of engineers and we wonder why we are sliding behind. 

Not everyone can be a tech engineer though. That's a very real problem people tend to ignore.

 

It's not as easy as: "Let's just retrain the out of work truckers and assembly line jockeys, to tech engineers".

Edited December 9, 2019 by aGENT

[Kragar]

6 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Not everyone can be a tech engineer though. That's a very real problem people tend to ignore.

 

It's not as easy as: "Let's just retrain the out of work truckers and assembly line jockeys, to tech engineers".

Yeah, "learning to code" cannot be done overnight. 

 

It does bother me though to see how much tech work is either sent overseas (typically India), or the large number of Indian workers here on visas doing technical work here in the L.A. area.  Although, at least those working onsite have generally been quality workers.  I can't say my experience with offshore teams has been as good.

 

I don't know if it comes down to a lack of local workers or cutting costs.  If citizens aren't lacking for opportunity, then there's not much wrong with the concept of bringing in those from other countries.  But when you have people bitching about low wages and the 6-figure potential in many tech jobs, you'd think those people could be better prepared for going after these higher quality jobs.

[Gurn]

2 hours ago, nuckin_futz said:

CAD wages have been rising gradually. No doubt well paying jobs in the oil patch have disappeared since 2015 when oil prices plummeted. But if it were truly a problem wages overall would be stagnant or in decline.

 

 

While the wages may have been climbing what happens when that increase is measured against inflation.?

 

I recently compared my wage in 1996 to 2018 and concluded inflation had gone up 40.48. (Stats Can figure) However that inflation figure does not include oil and tax increase.

Wage went up 43%. So it looks like I'm doing better until I go to the gas pump and pay my taxes.

 

Edited December 9, 2019 by gurn

[langlands]

3 minutes ago, gurn said:

While the wages may have been climbing what happens when that increase is measured against inflation.?

 

I recently compared my wage in 1996 to 2018 and concluded inflation had gone up 40.48. (Stats Can figure) However that inflation figure does not include oil and tax increase.

Wage went up 43%. So it looks like I'm doing better until I go to the gas pump and pay my taxes.

 

Things are working perfectly then. The answer is to buy an electric car. That's what the carbon tax is for. Make energy costs so high that electric cars are a worthwhile option. The even bigger problem is electricity costs will then go up too. Way up. We will never get back to cheap transportation.

[Gurn]

2 minutes ago, langlands said:

Things are working perfectly then. The answer is to buy an electric car. That's what the carbon tax is for. Make energy costs so high that electric cars are a worthwhile option. The even bigger problem is electricity costs will then go up too. Way up. We will never get back to cheap transportation.

Member when Diesel was so much cheaper than gas, then more people changed to diesel fueled vehicles and the price of diesel went up?

I remember that.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, langlands said:

Things are working perfectly then. The answer is to buy an electric car. That's what the carbon tax is for. Make energy costs so high that electric cars are a worthwhile option. The even bigger problem is electricity costs will then go up too. Way up. We will never get back to cheap transportation.

If we don't have enough hydro dams to generate all the electricity needs, then we could build some coal fired electric plants.  Or nuclear plants are clean.  There are plenty of ways to increase our electricity needs for all the electric vehicles that need 12 to 24 hours to slurp up energy.  

[SabreFan1]

2 hours ago, aGENT said:

That likely has far more to do with automating jobs away and the vast majority of manufacturing moving to China etc than whichever flavour happens to be in power in either country.

I'm referring to the last of the manufacturing jobs being lost to both Mexico and China.  People who create widgets aren't qualified to do anything else once their job is moved to Mexico.  So in order to live, they have to move onto open low-paying menial positions.

 

A guy I knew in the mid-late 90's moved to Ohio to take work at a auto parts manufacturing and stamping plant.  Of and on I wonder if he kept that job long or if it eventually moved to Mexico, Canada, or China.

[SabreFan1]

45 minutes ago, Alflives said:

If we don't have enough hydro dams to generate all the electricity needs, then we could build some coal fired electric plants.  Or nuclear plants are clean.  There are plenty of ways to increase our electricity needs for all the electric vehicles that need 12 to 24 hours to slurp up energy.  

Coal plants are being shuttered.  Natural Gas power plants are cheaper, cleaner, and easier.

 

Trump has made a half-hearted attempt at slowing down the conversion to mollify his base, but as he's found out, it's too late.  Coal burning power plants are going the way of the dodo.

[Kragar]

7 minutes ago, SabreFan1 said:

Coal burning power plants are going the way of the dodo.

Dodos have been found in China?  Awesome news!

[SabreFan1]

4 hours ago, Kragar said:

Dodos have been found in China?  Awesome news!

China's burning massive amounts of coal for power?  Didn't know that.  Thought they had some huge hydro-electric projects that they were creating.  I remember reading a couple years back about their agricultural industry being upset that rivers were being redirected and dammed up.

Edited December 10, 2019 by SabreFan1
Typed "Gina"