ShawnAntoski Posted December 8, 2019 Author Share Posted December 8, 2019 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Canucklehead73 said: Myself I feel the passive box defense is not working for us on a couple fronts... This system only really work for smart defensive players who can read passing lanes, block shots and have good instincts with their sticks. The average player will end up getting in the goalies sight lines, let shots through and or deflect pucks past their own goalies... Secondly and this is more my mindset on the matter, the passive box firstly allows opposing skilled players to use their strengths to make plays and unleash quality shots on net and secondly if your players are out pressuring the shots are of a lesser quality and there is a bit more room for the goalie to see shots for the goalie. just my 2 cents. Based on the eye test, I would agree but perhaps this can be mostly be attributed to a youngish team and coaching staff learning to win or be competitive for the first time in the NHL ? Hopefully, the learning curve for both are not too big to affect our playoff chances... Edited December 8, 2019 by ShawnAntoski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 Here's another "big picture" consideration as I debunk the myth. There were 4 penalties awarded in the second/third. All to Vancouver. A team that's on the PK will wear down (in what some see as "letting down"). And a team that gets to play with a man advantage generally will start to generate some momentum (or at least should). Tends to make things a little lopsided and, to the untrained eye, seem like a team is blowing things. Whe, really, they're trying to kill of man advantages which isn't easy when it's several in a row. If we're going to do this (look at "blown leads" as an issue for the team), let's make sure our eyes see things that factor in, like the shorthanded minutes being played by one team that maybe deplete the reserves a bit. Reasons of "why" they may not just surge ahead with a lead. This is, by no means, to undermine some of the great comments here (that I happen to agree with). Some of these things DO happen...I just think there are reasons behind some of them and it's not just a matter of the team breaking down because they don't know any better (or don't care). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zimmy Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 20 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said: Here's another "big picture" consideration as I debunk the myth. There were 4 penalties awarded in the second/third. All to Vancouver. A team that's on the PK will wear down (in what some see as "letting down"). And a team that gets to play with a man advantage generally will start to generate some momentum (or at least should). If we're going to do this (look at "blown leads" as an issue for the team), let's make sure our eyes see things that factor in, like the shorthanded minutes being played by one team that maybe deplete the reserves a bit. Reasons of "why" they may not just surge ahead with a lead. This is, by no means, to undermine some of the great comments here (that I happen to agree with). Some of these things DO happen...I just think there are reasons behind some of them and it's not just a matter of the team breaking down because they don't know any better (or don't care). And maybe it’s best to just be happy with what we have today. Its just that I (and I could be alone on this) like to project forward and imagine a playoff series in the not too distant future. I draw on my decades of watching this game and make this generalization about teams that ultimately win : they know how to shut it down, they know how to impose their will on a game and on an opponent and once they have a strangle hold they do not let go, they win without drama and without taxing themselves to the extreme. Obviously even the best of the best can’t be 100% successful with this approach but when this mindset prevails, the team has significant long term success. As much as I love our boys, they are not nearly at this level yet. It promises to be a great ride though! (Never a dull moment!) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptCanuck16 Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 44 minutes ago, Brad Marchand said: IMO this is on the players as much as the coaching. Whatever the systems are, I find it hard to imagine that the coaching staff wants them to play that passively. I'm not convinced. Did you hear Greens post game? When a member of the media said something along the lines of "probably not the finish you were looking for but you still got the 2 points in the end" Green responded, "Are you kidding me? It was a great game." So this leads me to believe that either the team was playing the final couple of minutes exactly how Green wanted them too, or he is a 'participation trophy' type of coach and he'll always applaud their effort and won't criticize any faults. Either way, that kind of play isn't what will win is Cups so Green needs to go. 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, CptCanuck16 said: I'm not convinced. Did you hear Greens post game? When a member of the media said something along the lines of "probably not the finish you were looking for but you still got the 2 points in the end" Green responded, "Are you kidding me? It was a great game." So this leads me to believe that either the team was playing the final couple of minutes exactly how Green wanted them too, or he is a 'participation trophy' type of coach and he'll always applaud their effort and won't criticize any faults. Either way, that kind of play isn't what will win is Cups so Green needs to go. It was a great game. And they got the two points. If they'd lost, I imagine he'd feel differently. They won. What more do you want? Oh right...them to win convincingly. Well even the best don't at times. They scored a lot of goals...enough, in the end, to take the points. That's the point. People want to complicate it by ff'ing to playoffs and projecting we won't do well. We could. We beat teams that were there last year. That's what you have to do. Health is a huge factor...if "they" (meaning any opponent we're up against) is banged up and we're not...sky's the limit. Goaltending? We've got that one covered and it can be the difference in a series. Your second paragraph really is just assumption...they played to win and they won. I don't really see a problem with that. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 I have all day to defend this young team that's really giving me some great entertainment this year. Not picture perfect, but no team ever is. They can have flashes of brilliance but all teams will have periods where they let things slide a little. For various reasons that are mostly ignored here. Keep it coming.... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted December 8, 2019 Author Share Posted December 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said: I have all day to defend this young team that's really giving me some great entertainment this year. Not picture perfect, but no team ever is. They can have flashes of brilliance but all teams will have periods where they let things slide a little. For various reasons that are mostly ignored here. Keep it coming.... enjoying the engagements. Hope more will chime in and provide there own personal perspective. It is still early enough and the team is still in the hunt; hopefully this group of coaches and players will quickly win together. I understand, that there is a process because after all, this is really the first time this roster and coaching staff are actually being presented with a legit chance to be a playoff team. I hope that as season roles along that some adjustments are made that even my UNTRAINED eye can see some improvement(s) - perhaps in a few months with a little more context we can return to this discussion. Still hopeful to making the playoffs this year. GCG ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johngould21 Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 32 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said: Here's another "big picture" consideration as I debunk the myth. There were 4 penalties awarded in the second/third. All to Vancouver. A team that's on the PK will wear down (in what some see as "letting down"). And a team that gets to play with a man advantage generally will start to generate some momentum (or at least should). If we're going to do this (look at "blown leads" as an issue for the team), let's make sure our eyes see things that factor in, like the shorthanded minutes being played by one team that maybe deplete the reserves a bit. Reasons of "why" they may not just surge ahead with a lead. This is, by no means, to undermine some of the great comments here (that I happen to agree with). Some of these things DO happen...I just think there are reasons behind some of them and it's not just a matter of the team breaking down because they don't know any better (or don't care). Exactly, even though the Canucks got a shorty, when most of your offensive players aren't on the ice for extended parts of the game, the other guys are bound to get momentum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 10 hours ago, Dats hockey said: We honestly aren’t that young Yes, the Canucks are pretty young. https://www.rosterresource.com/nhl-roster-breakdowns/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zimmy Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 13 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said: I have all day to defend this young team that's really giving me some great entertainment this year. Not picture perfect, but no team ever is. They can have flashes of brilliance but all teams will have periods where they let things slide a little. For various reasons that are mostly ignored here. Keep it coming.... Agreed. Teams are ever evolving through different phases/periods. I guess I’m just in my “let’s shut’r down and take this one home” phase. But maybe I’m asking for too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted December 8, 2019 Author Share Posted December 8, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, zimmy said: Agreed. Teams are ever evolving through different phases/periods. I guess I’m just in my “let’s shut’r down and take this one home” phase. But maybe I’m asking for too much. Most of us are loooong time fans and there is alot to be excited about when it comes to this team ! GCG ! Edited December 8, 2019 by ShawnAntoski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DADDYROCK Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 Confidence helps, at times we look like Virgins on their wedding night.Just a bit rattled. You sure can't fault the goalies,guys being left alone right in front and shooting point blank shots. Stop running around and look to the front of your net and the danger areas,then block out players and collapse when the puck arrives.No rebounds, no goals. Having a big "mean" defense man in front to flatten guys would not hurt whatsoever,because 5' 10 and under 200lbs is not going to do too much against huge players for the other teams battling for the puck. SURE SOUNDS EASY,but it is not. However when we have all our defensive minded forwards back (Sutter, Beagle),we will not be so rattled on the ice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayinblack Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 1 hour ago, debluvscanucks said: Here's another "big picture" consideration as I debunk the myth. There were 4 penalties awarded in the second/third. All to Vancouver. A team that's on the PK will wear down (in what some see as "letting down"). And a team that gets to play with a man advantage generally will start to generate some momentum (or at least should). If we're going to do this (look at "blown leads" as an issue for the team), let's make sure our eyes see things that factor in, like the shorthanded minutes being played by one team that maybe deplete the reserves a bit. Reasons of "why" they may not just surge ahead with a lead. This is, by no means, to undermine some of the great comments here (that I happen to agree with). Some of these things DO happen...I just think there are reasons behind some of them and it's not just a matter of the team breaking down because they don't know any better (or don't care). All the more reason to not shorten the bench and further wear out the defensive/PK players TG leans on to protect a lead. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayinblack Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 38 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said: I have all day to defend this young team that's really giving me some great entertainment this year. Not picture perfect, but no team ever is. They can have flashes of brilliance but all teams will have periods where they let things slide a little. For various reasons that are mostly ignored here. Keep it coming.... This.... in a big way. Can't overstate how much more enjoyable a team we have to watch this year. Can't wait to watch this core mature together. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 44 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: Yes, the Canucks are pretty young. https://www.rosterresource.com/nhl-roster-breakdowns/ After the Sedins retired we became a younger team. It's Horvat's team now - barely in his mid twenties and the elder statesman of our drafted core (of which "ancient" Miller is now a big part of). Can't find many teams like us in the NHL - CAR and COL come to mind and both are a little ahead in their rebuilds (regardless of duration). No team like it in our division and not many like it league wide. Blue ocean - it will take some time to earn our stripes - the best is surely yet to come. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the grinder Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 the reason for blowing the lead , 4 straight penalties and then beagle and schaller are over extended , then green tries to play 4th line vs Eichel line 15 mins toi 4.44 on the pk for schaller -3 , beagle 14 mins toi , 3.55 on pk -3 , ferland -2 in 8 mins there is the blown lead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted December 8, 2019 Author Share Posted December 8, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, the grinder said: the reason for blowing the lead , 4 straight penalties and then beagle and schaller are over extended , then green tries to play 4th line vs Eichel line 15 mins toi 4.44 on the pk for schaller -3 , beagle 14 mins toi , 3.55 on pk -3 , ferland -2 in 8 mins there is the blown lead So in your opinion (for this particular game), the deployment of overplaying trusted players did not help ? Edited December 8, 2019 by ShawnAntoski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awalk Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 It can be tough to swallow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the grinder Posted December 8, 2019 Share Posted December 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said: So in your opinion (for this particular game), the deployment of overplaying trusted players did not help ? the stats point that way don't they ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnAntoski Posted December 8, 2019 Author Share Posted December 8, 2019 Just now, the grinder said: the stats point that way don't they ? Would you say the same for the Pits game or not ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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