Blowing third period leads

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, Googlie said:

Interesting piece from a Washington analyst:

https://novacapsfans.com/2019/10/24/nhl-tale-of-the-tape-where-do-the-washington-capitals-rank-in-age-height-and-weight-for-the-2019-2020-season/

We're middle of the pack in age and weight, but first in average height (way to go, Myers)

 

 

 

First in overall in chin to shoulder ratios too.

[-DLC-]

6 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

1.  we have blown 4 leads in the 3rd period.. 2 of them we came back to win, the other 2 we lost.. that's  4 out of 12 with the lead

 

2.  games that we were badly outplayed in the 3rd period.. the rangers game come to the top of my head

 

3.  don't think it's blowing it out of proportion when i think it's fair to say 50% or more of our games when leading after 2.. we were not just outplayed.. but badly outplayed in the 3rd 

1.  Two.  That's hardly an issue.  Playing pretty gets you no extra points...it's just a wow factor.  Playing ugly is often referred to as "grinding out a win".  Those ugly wins count for two points despite them not meeting fans' standards of being perfect enough.  Points.  That's the overall gauge of "good" and "bad" in this deal.  If you've played good enough to win, you were good (enough).

 

2.  "The top of your head" supplied recollection of one game.  That isn't reason for worry unless you can "think of" more examples.  If not, that's your clue.

 

3.  It is blowing it out of proportion and people here using actual facts and figures are supplying the support in that argument.  It doesn't matter if we were outplayed - the result is the only thing that matters.  Both in league standings and in how a cup is awarded.  Win the game and it's all just meaningless of how you got there.  People jumping to playoffs....you just have to get there then see what unfolds.  Sure, games have to be amped up but this team has shown the capability to do so...it's not like it isn't there.  

 

I challenge people to find a team that's played perfectly every period all year long.  I doubt there are any.

[Jester13]

We have a serious problem here, folks, because other teams have had comebacks to beat us and we've never come back to beat anyone this year or any year! 

 

 

On a serious note, I do find it weird when we dominate a team and then take our feet off the gas to hold onto the lead. Why not keep dominating and tallying up the goals, especially when a great offence creates a really good defence? The good thing is we will 100% learn and get better.

 

[189lb enforcers?]

Yes, it’s a big deal how often and how easily that the Canucks have blown leads, huge leads, in the 3rd period. For only 30 games in, the stats are quite telling. 

 

Not being able to score first, with or without an injured roster, is another stat and KPI to be nervous about as a fan. 

 

 

[bishopshodan]

9 hours ago, Dats hockey said:

That thing also thinks our youngest player is Pettersson...

It has the Nucks around the 4th youngest on average. If it is incorrect, where do you put us?  

 

You mentioned the team not being that young...

 

[apollo]

On 12/7/2019 at 11:36 PM, TheNewGM said:

all I know is .. wearing those retro jerseys makes everything okay.. Gonna cry  next game with the stupid whale again.

The whale is iconic. It represents the city as well as any jersey has especially with the blue and greens if you ask me. 

 

I love the retro jerseys too... especially the flying V they wore for the warm-ups but neither of those jerseys or the stick in rink represent our city as well as the whale with blue and green. 

 

Their logic is to promote the reason billions of people want to live in Vancouver. Our majestic blue waters and luscious green trees everywhere. 

 

I've never seen a whale personally at the beach but I'm sure they come thru lol 

 

Also the whale itself is aboriginal art? 

 

800 Griffiths way is on land that white people stole from the Natives, so why not at the very least, pay a little homage and respect to the men and women that inhabited this glorious province before us? 

 

[-DLC-]

1 hour ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Yes, it’s a big deal how often and how easily that the Canucks have blown leads, huge leads, in the 3rd period. For only 30 games in, the stats are quite telling. 

 

Not being able to score first, with or without an injured roster, is another stat and KPI to be nervous about as a fan. 

 

 

They're (stats/reference) all up there...go check them out.  Unless you provide actual stats that support your argument, I'm disagreeing.

 

Also wai_lai416 - the Rangers game was nearly two months ago??   And we won the game, despite the panic??  So that supports the argument that it's not a huge issue more than it being one.  If you have to dig back and use a game that we won as "problematic".

[PhillipBlunt]

All the third period leads on this site got reeeaallly excited for a second there. 

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Yes, it’s a big deal how often and how easily that the Canucks have blown leads, huge leads, in the 3rd period. For only 30 games in, the stats are quite telling. 

 

Not being able to score first, with or without an injured roster, is another stat and KPI to be nervous about as a fan. 

 

 

You bet.  The season feels longer then it really is - from the first game against Calgary when Rittich stood on his head and we started with a couple losses - to the offensive explosion (how many 5 plus goal games have we had? - plus we shouldn't be losing games when we score 5-6 goals OR giving the other team a point) to the same old injury scheme rearing its ugly head.  

 

Scoring four goals in the third to catch up ... tying it with a couple minutes in the third and winning..Miller coming in and looking like and acting an alternate Captain/MVP after using a 1 and 3 rounder to get him.   Myers and Huges plugging massive holes in our defense.  Demko teasing us with his potential.  So far our 50th anniversary has been an adventure to say the least...the pieces seem there - once it comes together other team won't looking forward to playing us much.  Roussel is back.  Scoring too. Good times 

[Dats hockey]

2 hours ago, bishopshodan said:

It has the Nucks around the 4th youngest on average. If it is incorrect, where do you put us?  

 

You mentioned the team not being that young...

 

I don’t think you can change my mind that’s such a poor excuse for blowing leads, I refuse our team blows them because Pete Brock Hughes and Guadette are “young”

[bishopshodan]

31 minutes ago, Dats hockey said:

I don’t think you can change my mind that’s such a poor excuse for blowing leads, I refuse our team blows them because Pete Brock Hughes and Guadette are “young”

Oh, I don't think I was saying anything about their play or blowing leads.

 

I just saw your post saying that the team wasn't young. That's incorrect, they are a young squad.

 

Though, to comment on your point. I would think more experience would give them better composure under pressure, such as defending leads. 

Or it may be the way they are coached. I have a few concerns about deployment when it comes to Green.

 

All that said, I see a very bright future for the club and think we are really doing well compared to what we looked like in the last couple seasons. An exciting team that scores a lot and seems more balanced than ever. 

[Canucklehead73]

One thing stats guys always forget when painting a negative narrative... the other teams play... without context stats have little value.

 

 

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, Dats hockey said:

I don’t think you can change my mind that’s such a poor excuse for blowing leads, I refuse our team blows them because Pete Brock Hughes and Guadette are “young”

Why not?  They aren't grizzled wise vets by any stretch and so far aside from AG if they aren't producing (scoring) they don't add much else.   It's not like QH is Potvin or something (back when they drafted 20 years olds).    

 

Someone used the Oilers as an example.  They had the best team and most talented team on paper all-time by a fair margin (MTL next up, then NYI).   All three of those dynasties paid their dues and had to overcome big obstacles on their way to building their dynasties.   A 20 year old Lafluer, Potvin, Trottier, Gretzky, Messier, Robinson won nothing.   They all had to work for it.   Heck Robinson had to beat up each of the Flyers tough guys one a time - before he came along the Habs had an awful case of the PHI flue .... he made that team ten feet taller.  

 

Potvin had the same impact on the NYI team - and I hate to say it but the origin story of Messier's greatness started when he challenged Robinson and the entire Habs team (they were still a powerhouse) when they first met in the playoffs saying if they wanted to target their stars they'd first have to go through him.   It worked and the beat them. 

 

NYI were a tired team when EDM finally took the crown - BUT if it wasn't for broomimg the previous year they wouldn't have learned their lessons.   

 

This team will still have the training wheels on until they make the playoffs and also will have to pay their dues once they make it.  The only core player that's doing it right now is surprise surprise... Miller.  

 

Edit:  and Dats Hockey ... sorry couldn't help myself / point is Miller has been around but long enough to both get man strength and play the game the right way.   He's our MVP by a long shot so far ... what will EP do once he's 25-26?  A lot more - and this is all on JB addind a player that can have this much impact and he's teaching BB and EP the ropes...when their skill set is unleashed at the same age no way are we blowing leads with any regularity... heck we barely are now as several have pointed out.  

Edited December 9, 2019 by IBatch

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Canucklehead73 said:

One thing stats guys always forget when painting a negative narrative... the other teams play... without context stats have little value.

 

 

Aren't Sutter and Beagle supposed to be back next game.  They will help lock down leads.  

[Dats hockey]

1 hour ago, bishopshodan said:

Oh, I don't think I was saying anything about their play or blowing leads.

 

I just saw your post saying that the team wasn't young. That's incorrect, they are a young squad.

 

Though, to comment on your point. I would think more experience would give them better composure under pressure, such as defending leads. 

Or it may be the way they are coached. I have a few concerns about deployment when it comes to Green.

 

All that said, I see a very bright future for the club and think we are really doing well compared to what we looked like in the last couple seasons. An exciting team that scores a lot and seems more balanced than ever. 

I get the average age thing but what’s the average age of the players green is deploying to defend the lead because I don’t normally see out young guys out there during the end of games to protect leads, that’s why I think this average age thing is irrelevant 

[IBatch]

5 minutes ago, Dats hockey said:

I get the average age thing but what’s the average age of the players green is deploying to defend the lead because I don’t normally see out young guys out there during the end of games to protect leads, that’s why I think this average age thing is irrelevant 

Just let it go.  What's next statistics on the average age of the team if we have a lead, are one goal behind or losing badly in the "turd" period.

Edited December 9, 2019 by IBatch

[Dats hockey]

11 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Why not?  They aren't grizzled wise vets by any stretch and so far aside from AG if they aren't producing (scoring) they don't add much else.   It's not like QH is Potvin or something (back when they drafted 20 years olds).    

 

Someone used the Oilers as an example.  They had the best team and most talented team on paper all-time by a fair margin (MTL next up, then NYI).   All three of those dynasties paid their dues and had to overcome big obstacles on their way to building their dynasties.   A 20 year old Lafluer, Potvin, Trottier, Gretzky, Messier, Robinson won nothing.   They all had to work for it.   Heck Robinson had to beat up each of the Flyers tough guys one a time - before he came along the Habs had an awful case of the PHI flue .... he made that team ten feet taller.  

 

Potvin had the same impact on the NYI team - and I hate to say it but the origin story of Messier's greatness started when he challenged Robinson and the entire Habs team (they were still a powerhouse) when they first met in the playoffs saying if they wanted to target their stars they'd first have to go through him.   It worked and the beat them. 

 

NYI were a tired team when EDM finally took the crown - BUT if it wasn't for broomimg the previous year they wouldn't have learned their lessons.   

 

This team will still have the training wheels on until they make the playoffs and also will have to pay their dues once they make it.  The only core player that's doing it right now is surprise surprise... Miller.  

 

Edit:  and Dats Hockey ... sorry couldn't help myself / point is Miller has been around but long enough to both get man strength and play the game the right way.   He's our MVP by a long shot so far ... what will EP do once he's 25-26?  A lot more - and this is all on JB addind a player that can have this much impact and he's teaching BB and EP the ropes...when their skill set is unleashed at the same age no way are we blowing leads with any regularity... heck we barely are now as several have pointed out.  

I don’t discount experience but age and experience are different things, Will we be better when our core is older we’ll duhhh, but I personally think we have deficiencies other places other than “Age” and that starts with coaching and scheme and I personally don’t think we are a well coach team. We are a team that relies on effort and we seem to have no game plan for playing  in the offensive zone when leading because I feel green doesn’t like people who take chances when having a lead. There is a reason our shots per 60 drop dramatically after a single period were we out score and out play an opponent. Than we end up playing a bunch in our zone and the rest is history

[189lb enforcers?]

4 hours ago, debluvscanucks said:

They're (stats/reference) all up there...go check them out.  Unless you provide actual stats that support your argument, I'm disagreeing.

 

Also wai_lai416 - the Rangers game was nearly two months ago??   And we won the game, despite the panic??  So that supports the argument that it's not a huge issue more than it being one.  If you have to dig back and use a game that we won as "problematic".

You’re right Deb, I have no argument, only an opinion. 

 

[189lb enforcers?]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

You bet.  The season feels longer then it really is - from the first game against Calgary when Rittich stood on his head and we started with a couple losses - to the offensive explosion (how many 5 plus goal games have we had? - plus we shouldn't be losing games when we score 5-6 goals OR giving the other team a point) to the same old injury scheme rearing its ugly head.  

 

Scoring four goals in the third to catch up ... tying it with a couple minutes in the third and winning..Miller coming in and looking like and acting an alternate Captain/MVP after using a 1 and 3 rounder to get him.   Myers and Huges plugging massive holes in our defense.  Demko teasing us with his potential.  So far our 50th anniversary has been an adventure to say the least...the pieces seem there - once it comes together other team won't looking forward to playing us much.  Roussel is back.  Scoring too. Good times 

This fan-ride is one of the best I’ve been on as a Canucks fan. 

Maybe because I appreciate it more now that I understand things better? 

 

The 92-94 years felt great too, as did that 01-03 stretch, but this team is my favourite. Once they iron out the kinks, via a few trades I’m sure, look the F out. Finally, a roster built for playoff hockey. What’s not to like? 

 

Blowing massive leads and not scoring first does remind me of the early 2000’s Canucks though. 

[189lb enforcers?]

27 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Just let it go.  What's next statistics on the average age of the team if we have a lead, are one goal behind or losing badly in the "turd" period.

That runt of a stats geek who writes for TSN will probably run with your idea.