Andrew Yang's $1000/month UBI

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

1 hour ago, Bob.Loblaw said:

Really?  Him?

 

He is running out of money and steam fast.  Better donate to his campaign if you want to keep seeing him.

Yes and he even mentions this, kind of crappy imo especially now with Billionaire/Millionaires running which basically screws the average person from running anymore, financially they just can't keep up which kind of sucks, so basically going forward in the USA it's going to be Billionaires running the country for years to come 

[ChuckNORRIS4Cup]

1 hour ago, Canorth said:

Buttigieg is by far the smartest kid in the class. Only thing against him is his age and probably that gay thing.

 

Imagine seeing a young, brilliant war veteran going toe to toe with a cognitively impaired, draft dodger.... 

I like him, but I think his time is down the road maybe in another 4 years, then I think he would be much stronger. 

[canuckster19]

Does no one else see the inflation this would cause and render 1000 dollars useless pretty quickly? “I remember when a can of coke was $10...”

[-SN-]

4 hours ago, canuckster19 said:

Does no one else see the inflation this would cause and render 1000 dollars useless pretty quickly? “I remember when a can of coke was $10...”

I would imagine any implementation would take inflation into account.

[JM_]

14 hours ago, Duodenum said:

I've read that it's been implemented in small pockets to some success but I'm still iffy on it. America for sure is not equipped to handle it before we see how more stable countries do with it. I think it's an eventuality with automation coming to steal yer jobzz.

for a lot of jobs thats actually true. 

 

Its something we're going to have to decide as a society, do we allow unfettered automation knowing there will be permanent job losses and also choose not to implement something like universal income? seems like we're allowing the creation of a generation with an even bigger wealth gap. Not a great idea if you're not a fan of reviving communism. 

 

I do think its inevitable that we're going to see some kind of UBI + 25 hour work weeks be the norm. 

[aGENT]

14 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

for a lot of jobs thats actually true. 

 

Its something we're going to have to decide as a society, do we allow unfettered automation knowing there will be permanent job losses and also choose not to implement something like universal income? seems like we're allowing the creation of a generation with an even bigger wealth gap. Not a great idea if you're not a fan of reviving communism. 

 

I do think its inevitable that we're going to see some kind of UBI + 25 hour work weeks be the norm. 

Something's got to happen. And frankly governments are not doing nearly enough to bridge us over that transition IMO. 

[MoneypuckOverlord]

I think Bernie Sanders is also going after the internet giants in the States.

[smokes]

3 hours ago, MoneypuckOverlord said:

I think Bernie Sanders is also going after the internet giants in the States.

I think all government should. Why should Amazon, Facebook, Google etc pay virtually nothing in federal tax when everyone needs to. They should be paying the most especially when they use and sell our data so freely.

[Boudrias]

22 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

for a lot of jobs thats actually true. 

 

Its something we're going to have to decide as a society, do we allow unfettered automation knowing there will be permanent job losses and also choose not to implement something like universal income? seems like we're allowing the creation of a generation with an even bigger wealth gap. Not a great idea if you're not a fan of reviving communism. 

 

I do think its inevitable that we're going to see some kind of UBI + 25 hour work weeks be the norm. 

This smacks of the protests when motorized vehicles were causing massive dislocation in the buggy building industry. Restricting automation runs the risk of falling behind not just in industrial production but also the overall technology. Where do you draw the line if every development has to go before a tribunal to see if it can proceed? If leaving a smaller environmental foot print is a worthy goal then automation and AI will have a significant role. 

 

The impact on employment and wage growth could be very significant and disruptive. To a great extent your favourite politician Trump is appealing to those impacted not just from globalization but also automation that depresses wage growth. One of his efforts is to bring industry back to the USA with the jobs they create. Job numbers are up along with wage growth. 

 

To to your point about wage disparity. I totally agree that it is one of the biggest issues facing OECD nations. Does a guaranteed income solve it? If it would how do you fund it? Would underemployment soothe the masses? I doubt it but something has to be done over and above what is happening now. 

[JM_]

19 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

This smacks of the protests when motorized vehicles were causing massive dislocation in the buggy building industry. Restricting automation runs the risk of falling behind not just in industrial production but also the overall technology. Where do you draw the line if every development has to go before a tribunal to see if it can proceed? If leaving a smaller environmental foot print is a worthy goal then automation and AI will have a significant role. 

 

The impact on employment and wage growth could be very significant and disruptive. To a great extent your favourite politician Trump is appealing to those impacted not just from globalization but also automation that depresses wage growth. One of his efforts is to bring industry back to the USA with the jobs they create. Job numbers are up along with wage growth. 

 

To to your point about wage disparity. I totally agree that it is one of the biggest issues facing OECD nations. Does a guaranteed income solve it? If it would how do you fund it? Would underemployment soothe the masses? I doubt it but something has to be done over and above what is happening now. 

Trump hasn't brought many jobs "back" thats not where the US growth has come from. Automation isn't just a threat to manufacturing floor jobs, AI will transform service industries as well.

 

UBI has to be funded through corporate taxation, thats where the value is going to be from automation. It has to, otherwise they'll have no customers. 

[smokes]

1 hour ago, Boudrias said:

To to your point about wage disparity. I totally agree that it is one of the biggest issues facing OECD nations. Does a guaranteed income solve it? If it would how do you fund it? Would underemployment soothe the masses? I doubt it but something has to be done over and above what is happening now. 

https://www.yang2020.com/what-is-freedom-dividend-faq/

It would be easier than you might think. Andrew proposes funding the Freedom Dividend by consolidating some welfare programs and implementing a Value Added Tax of 10 percent. Current welfare and social program beneficiaries would be given a choice between their current benefits or $1,000 cash unconditionally – most would prefer cash with no restriction.

A Value Added Tax (VAT) is a tax on the production of goods or services a business produces. It is a fair tax and it makes it much harder for large corporations, who are experts at hiding profits and income, to avoid paying their fair share. A VAT is nothing new. 160 out of 193 countries in the world already have a Value Added Tax or something similar, including all of Europe which has an average VAT of 20 percent.

The means to pay for the basic income will come from four sources:

1. Current spending: We currently spend between $500 and $600 billion a year on welfare programs, food stamps, disability and the like. This reduces the cost of the Freedom Dividend because people already receiving benefits would have a choice between keeping their current benefits and the $1,000, and would not receive both.

Additionally, we currently spend over 1 trillion dollars on health care, incarceration, homelessness services and the like. We would save $100 – 200+ billion as people would be able to take better care of themselves and avoid the emergency room, jail, and the street and would generally be more functional. The Freedom Dividend would pay for itself by helping people avoid our institutions, which is when our costs shoot up. Some studies have shown that $1 to a poor parent will result in as much as $7 in cost-savings and economic growth.

2. A VAT: Our economy is now incredibly vast at $19 trillion, up $4 trillion in the last 10 years alone. A VAT at half the European level would generate $800 billion in new revenue. A VAT will become more and more important as technology improves because you cannot collect income tax from robots or software.

3. New revenue: Putting money into the hands of American consumers would grow the economy. The Roosevelt Institute projected that the economy will grow by approximately $2.5 trillion and create 4.6 million new jobs. This would generate approximately $800 – 900 billion in new revenue from economic growth.

4. Taxes on top earners and pollution: By removing the Social Security cap, implementing a financial transactions tax, and ending the favorable tax treatment for capital gains/carried interest, we can decrease financial speculation while also funding the Freedom Dividend. We can add to that a carbon fee that will be partially dedicated to funding the Freedom Dividend, making up the remaining balance required to cover the cost of this program.

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, Boudrias said:

This smacks of the protests when motorized vehicles were causing massive dislocation in the buggy building industry. Restricting automation runs the risk of falling behind not just in industrial production but also the overall technology. Where do you draw the line if every development has to go before a tribunal to see if it can proceed? If leaving a smaller environmental foot print is a worthy goal then automation and AI will have a significant role. 

 

The impact on employment and wage growth could be very significant and disruptive. To a great extent your favourite politician Trump is appealing to those impacted not just from globalization but also automation that depresses wage growth. One of his efforts is to bring industry back to the USA with the jobs they create. Job numbers are up along with wage growth. 

 

To to your point about wage disparity. I totally agree that it is one of the biggest issues facing OECD nations. Does a guaranteed income solve it? If it would how do you fund it? Would underemployment soothe the masses? I doubt it but something has to be done over and above what is happening now. 

I don't think anyone is suggesting we stop automation/innovation.

 

But that automation and innovation is going to MASSIVELY disrupt our current employment/tax/economy etc model. Unemployment during the great depression was 24.9% in the US. Go and look at what percentage of US jobs are in manufacturing and some sort of driving alone and tell me don't need to start planning 'yesterday' on how we're going to bridge to this new reality.

Edited December 12, 2019 by aGENT

[JM_]

27 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I don't think anyone is suggesting we stop automation/innovation.

 

But that automation and innovation is going to MASSIVELY disrupt our current employment/tax/economy etc model. Unemployment during the great depression was 24.9% in the US. Go and look at what percentage of US jobs are in manufacturing and some sort of driving alone and tell me don't need to start planning 'yesterday' on how we're going to bridge to this new reality.

So many things are linked to AI and automation. If companies aren't taxed more, then prices will have to plummet. Take your pick. You can't have a drastic cut in wages and retain customers or consumer confidence. 

 

So we'll see a mix of UBI-type programs and shorter work weeks for the same salaries (or close to) as we see now imo. We have to otherwise the system implodes into what you're talking about. 

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said:

So many things are linked to AI and automation. If companies aren't taxed more, then prices will have to plummet. Take your pick. You can't have a drastic cut in wages and retain customers or consumer confidence. 

 

So we'll see a mix of UBI-type programs and shorter work weeks for the same salaries (or close to) as we see now imo. We have to otherwise the system implodes into what you're talking about. 

Given the track records of corporations/wall street putting profit margins ahead of long term economic stability and bilking tax payers to pay for their gambling and profit schemes (2008 says hi), not to mention government complacency (and complicity) in all of it... forgive me for my lack of faith on their ability to promptly or properly prepare for this impending disaster.

 

Just look at how that establishment is fighting those very things with the Democratic candidates.

 

There's some very rich people who don't give two $&!#s that countries will tear themselves to shreds if it means they 'win' their game of profits over people. 

 

Here's hoping leveler heads prevail....

[JM_]

4 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Given the track records of corporations/wall street putting profit margins ahead of long term economic stability and bilking tax payers to pay for their gambling and profit schemes (2008 says hi), not to mention government complacency (and complicity) in all of it... forgive me for my lack of faith on their ability to promptly or properly prepare for this impending disaster.

 

Just look at how that establishment is fighting those very things with the Democratic candidates.

 

There's some very rich people who don't give two $&!#s that countries will tear themselves to shreds if it means they 'win' their game of profits over people. 

 

Here's hoping leveler heads prevail....

well... then here's hoping all our mortgages are paid off when it all goes to $&!#.

 

The US has to vote in someone who will bring in the corporate tax changes needed to make UBI happen. They'll have to be dragged kicking and screaming into it, its either that or maybe the communism you've been worried about actually starts to get some traction. 

[aGENT]

11 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

well... then here's hoping all our mortgages are paid off when it all goes to $&!#.

 

The US has to vote in someone who will bring in the corporate tax changes needed to make UBI happen. They'll have to be dragged kicking and screaming into it, its either that or maybe the communism you've been worried about actually starts to get some traction. 

I'm not especially concerned about 'communism' per se. I'm concerned about the extreme left wing nonsense, ideology, identity groups etc and tactics emanating out of our post secondary schools that is attacking freedom of speech in particular and increasingly infecting corporations and society at large.

 

Have you been keeping up with the upcoming 'terms of service' changes on Youtube for example? We'll see what happens but it sure looks an awful lot like they plan on banning and deleting any uploads they don't agree with or happen to like. Including retroactively anything that was previously 'fine' under the existing TOS agreement. That's some shady-ass BS.

 

And this is after Google blocking Tulsi Gabbard a few months ago with no reason or explanation. They're increasingly trying to control the information and 'message' you and I get and silencing anyone they don't happen to agree with including interfering with elections. 

 

People should be VERY concerned.

Edited December 12, 2019 by aGENT

[JM_]

10 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I'm not especially concerned about 'communism' per se. I'm concerned about the extreme left wing nonsense, ideology, identity groups etc and tactics emanating out of our post secondary schools that is attacking freedom of speech in particular and increasingly infecting corporations and society at large.

 

Have you been keeping up with the upcoming 'terms of service' changes on Youtube for example? We'll see what happens but it sure looks an awful lot like they plan on banning and deleting any uploads they don't agree with or happen to like. Including retroactively anything that was previously 'fine' under the existing TOS agreement. That's some shady-ass BS.

 

And this is after Google blocking Tulsi Gabbard a few months ago with no reason or explanation. They're increasingly trying to control the information and 'message' you and I get and silencing anyone they don't happen to agree with including interfering with elections. 

 

People should be VERY concerned.

no, I pretty much use you tube for watching Colbert. I don't expect things like you tube or google to do anything else but whats in their interest tho, so no big shocker to me. 

 

As they say: if its free, you are the product. 

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said:

no, I pretty much use you tube for watching Colbert. I don't expect things like you tube or google to do anything else but whats in their interest tho, so no big shocker to me. 

 

As they say: if its free, you are the product. 

Sure but in 2019 things like Youtube and Google are where a LOT of people, particularly younger people, get their information (and share information). If that information is being heavily censored and manipulated, including in relation to governance and elections, that's not good for anybody. Like REALLY not good. Like even George Orwell would be shocked not good.

 

And it's in direct correlation with what I've been talking about and fearful of. If you don't see reason as to why this might be concerning or in relation to that slippery slope I've been warning about...

[JM_]

21 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Sure but in 2019 things like Youtube and Google are where a LOT of people, particularly younger people, get their information (and share information). If that information is being heavily censored and manipulated, including in relation to governance and elections, that's not good for anybody. Like REALLY not good. Like even George Orwell would be shocked not good.

 

And it's in direct correlation with what I've been talking about and fearful of. If you don't see reason as to why this might be concerning or in relation to that slippery slope I've been warning about...

I'm not really concerned, no. U25s are far more media savvy than their parents ever were. I think they know when they're being manipulated and will drop a service in a heartbeat that they think is playing them. There's just too many ways to get and share and fact check info now for you tube to go too far. 

[aGENT]

6 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I'm not really concerned, no. U25s are far more media savvy than their parents ever were. I think they know when they're being manipulated and will drop a service in a heartbeat that they think is playing them. There's just too many ways to get and share and fact check info now for you tube to go too far. 

I'd suggest they already are. But here's hoping you're right in the longer term.