Ideas If We CRASHED Into January?

[ShawnAntoski]

5 hours ago, Timråfan said:

I think the coach is the only position we have to adjust. Eother Green himself take another strategic step or with someone else that can use the player to their max. 

Directly when players get frustrated you, as a coach, need to slow things down and start all over again. Green just go on with the full speed ahead strategy wich worked fine from the start. Then with injuries and oppo adjusting their strategy it get a lot harder. 

 

But, and a big butt, I don`t know if Green thinks 5 steps ahead and got this covered next season when his players "gettin'it“. But, again, I believe a good coach should adjust the strategy much better than I've seen from Green. Our players are to alone, no one to pass the puck to, and no one(close to anyway) follows up when we crash into ozone.  Our players try but are too ineffective. 

The" no one to pass the puck to" leads to a lot of desperate(dangerous) passing and evidentially loose the puck more often than not. 

 

I would hire a european coach just for the fun of it. They know how the NHL works and probably works a lot better with man management as they are used to it for a long time. NHL is adjusting now and are years away from par example SHL. Utica most definately should hire european coaches... 

 

One NA-player(don't remember his name) that was in KHL and moved to SHL said that KHL played slower but more strategic and SHL played faster, more like NHL. If that can give some clues... 

Good points because they do seem unorganized compared to others and it seems to be more obvious, when they play a passing or more structured team like the Canes or Avs or etc.  Also, if it weren't for the on the fly adjustments of players like EP, we would probably see alot of drives from the boards with a long easy shot on net (a typical Virtanen drive); atleast, have players crashing the net.  

Edited December 13, 2019 by ShawnAntoski

[Smashian Kassian]

16 hours ago, iceman64 said:

Rafferty waves hi with his 21 points this season, a younger tanev, smart, plays positionally well with and without the puck. JB stole one with Raff.. 

Ok in response to most of the OP's thoughts, the Canucks will only get better and November was one of the hardest months of the year (opponent wise) and we had injuries but came out ok and still in the playoff conversation, a lil early for all this no? 

I agree Rafferty looks like a diamond in the rough, but how much room does he have to grow? He's already 24. I think he's an NHL player, maybe a #4/5, but I don't know if I'm counting on him as a corner stone top 4 D. Tanev was playing in the Stanley Cup final at 21.
 

[Nuxfanabroad]

18 minutes ago, Smashian Kassian said:

I agree Rafferty looks like a diamond in the rough, but how much room does he have to grow? He's already 24. I think he's an NHL player, maybe a #4/5, but I don't know if I'm counting on him as a corner stone top 4 D. Tanev was playing in the Stanley Cup final at 21.
 

Sometimes these 'late-bloomers' have the wherewithal & wisdom to live this game at their chosen pace. Applies to many facets of life, including sport. I'm very bullish on this kid, & love seeing the early results.

Edited December 14, 2019 by Nuxfanabroad

[Smashian Kassian]

3 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Sometimes these 'late-bloomers' have the wherewithal & wisdom to live this lgame at their chosen pace. Applies to many facets of life, including sport. I'm very bullish on this kid, & love seeing the early results.

That's fair. I'm bullish on Rafferty too I'm just trying to not put too much expectation on the kid given he is a late bloomer. I share excitement though don't get me wrong.

 

In the NHL he's likely less dynamic than in the AHL, but he seems like he could be a steady player that is good at both ends. I'm excited to see him get a callup this year, hopefully soon. 

Edited December 14, 2019 by Smashian Kassian

[EdgarM]

How bout we just leave things well enough alone and let the kids develop. We have some of them in the NHL and some on the cusp in the minors. Veterans are needed to help develop them so I say don't fix it if it ain't broke. Draft, develop and fill gaps with FA's its pretty simple.

[iceman64]

4 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said:

I agree Rafferty looks like a diamond in the rough, but how much room does he have to grow? He's already 24. I think he's an NHL player, maybe a #4/5, but I don't know if I'm counting on him as a corner stone top 4 D. Tanev was playing in the Stanley Cup final at 21.
 

Well there are exceptions right? Raff looks like one of those and some just pick up late but he's developed really well and he's just getting started, this isn't wishful thinking, great vision and hockey smarts and not small either, and I wouldn't say he's a great offensive guy but not not just a stay at home either and his passes are really good and his skating isn't lacking either so hopefully 2nd pairing but I'm not convinced he's got to his ceiling yet but it already looks really good

. 

Am I saying he's the next tanev?  No but has a lot of the same assets tanev does so with Woo OJ and Chatfield, plus Train in the mix makes our D that much better than it is now.. at least when Tman goes down we have guys who need NHL time for experience and the team to see where they are when playing up and who they fit with properly is going to be equally important. 

[Bertorama]

I’m on the camp of this team is contending for a playoff spot come April and will get it.!  so I kind of reject the hypothesis all together regardless of what our record is end of month. 
 

The division is full of ups and downs so far this season by all accounts and this bodes well for our team who is finding their way one game at a time, sometimes they look unstoppable and other games horrible a perfect learning season if you want to look at it that way. Coyotes leading the Pacific with no pressure on their team to preform but as the season gets tighter it will be interesting to see how that team stands up at the top if they can really be there or not. Really it’s anyone’s playoff spot at this point. I wouldn’t count out any team in our Division save LA from being there for contention in the last 10 games of the season to make a playoff spot. 
 

We need to move off the tanking theories and look at subtle moves to continue to build on this group. Winning is an attitude. Not bought by draft picks. 
 

Just look at everyone’s  last ten games every team is Meh except a run by the flames. 
 

 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2019 by Bertorama

[ItTakesAnArmy]

The team has had a problem playing 5 on 5, with Demko hurt the only option is to play Markstrom until he drops and for him to continue to be one of the best in the league to have a hope.

Regardless of some of the posters optimism this team has not done well vs divisional rivals.

IMO if they win 5 games this month they are doing as expected, if Markstrom can steal an additional one or two games then they are just keeping up with teams already ahead of them.

They have to win as many as they lose to have a chance, already they have to win 3 or 4 more games than teams ahead of them to catch up let alone pass.

Because of what happened last year I don't expect too many teams to start mailing it in until the end of February and if the Canucks are close that is when I expect Benning to get fleeced at the TDL trading away another 1rst round pick, so far he has traded away two and blown one, McCann, the future and OJ. Even if OJ somehow makes the NHL it will be as a 7/8 guy on most teams.

Edited December 14, 2019 by ItTakesAnArmy

[Gurn]

On 12/12/2019 at 10:46 AM, GritGrinder said:

Given some of the opponents and the perceived improvement in talent the Canucks have had so far this year they should have a much better record through 31 games then they had last year, yet they are only slightly ahead of where they were last season.

 

2018-19 31gp 12-16-3 27pts -19 goal differential, had significant injuries throughout the lineup yet managed to beat teams like TB, Bos.(twice), Pit, Col., VGK.

 

2019-20 31gp 15-12-4 34pts +9 goal differential, no significant injuries to the top 10 scorers, d-men or goalies, 9 wins against teams currently in the bottom ten in the league.

 

A 28 goal differential, easier opponents and the top players haven't missed a game should have translated to way more than 3 more wins.

 

 

Markstrom missed games on family leave. Edler has missed games with injury. Sutter and Beagle missed games forcing Horvat to play a defensive draw taker role thus limiting his offensive ice time. Ferland  and Roussell, middle six players, have missed games. 

And yet the team has more points than last year.

On 12/13/2019 at 3:39 AM, StanleyCupOneDay said:

27 points vs 34 points with over 1/3rd of the season passed is actually quite a big difference.

 

At the 2018-2019 pace we would have 71 points at game 82. We ended up with 81 points.

 

At the 2019-2020 pace we would have 90 points at game 82. A noticeable and substantial improvement. Yet to see how many points we end up with of course, but that performance puts us close to/in the mix for a wildcard spot.

This.

[Nuxfanabroad]

On 12/14/2019 at 1:09 PM, EdgarM said:

How bout we just leave things well enough alone and let the kids develop. We have some of them in the NHL and some on the cusp in the minors. Veterans are needed to help develop them so I say don't fix it if it ain't broke. Draft, develop and fill gaps with FA's its pretty simple.

Pretty hard to argue with this.

[Timråfan]

On 12/13/2019 at 12:39 PM, StanleyCupOneDay said:

27 points vs 34 points with over 1/3rd of the season passed is actually quite a big difference.

 

At the 2018-2019 pace we would have 71 points at game 82. We ended up with 81 points.

 

At the 2019-2020 pace we would have 90 points at game 82. A noticeable and substantial improvement. Yet to see how many points we end up with of course, but that performance puts us close to/in the mix for a wildcard spot.

If we take today as mark we played 36 games last season and got 36 points. 

This season it's 34 games and 36 points. 

We've added Miller, Hughes, Benn, Myers, Fantenberg, Ferland, Roussell is back and Gaudette is in. 

 

2 more losses and we haven't moved an inch since last season except a few high scoring games. Wich maybe will be a few more if some teams are tanking. 

[HockeyHarry]

We (Canucks) keep trucking forward regardless. If we make playoffs it’s great for the Young Team group...if we don’t make the playoffs Canucks keep the 1st rounder and continue to keep building the prospect pool. 

 

Playoffs would be great to see Jake, Bo and the others in full playoff mode. Jake and Bo I’m the most intrigued by cuz I feel they have a hidden top gear game mode we haven’t seen yet. This season just to be in the playoffs the team would benefit hugely.

 

If we Don’t make the playoff show we Draft and fill the pool of prospects. In time we will have the option too trade for higher end missing pieces with the pool of prospect currency or fill spots with what I hope are solid young home grown drafted Canucks.

 

Go Canucks Goo

[BrockBoester]

On 12/13/2019 at 5:37 AM, Timråfan said:

I think the coach is the only position we have to adjust. Eother Green himself take another strategic step or with someone else that can use the player to their max.

I'm now fully convinced that you are actually Loui Eriksson himself.

 

Nice to meet you!

[Nuxfanabroad]

Another thread(today) a poster listed our middlish cast of depth fwds, which totaled(? I think) 30-40 mill of our cap hit. Almost all these placeholders are off the books in a yr or two. Long as JB doesn't replace them with more dreck..folx should just wait it out.

 

Our depth-bums are providing bodies so we don't have to rush a nice, deep stash of youth. We all just need patience to bide a bit more time.

 

Look how many teams have huge, longgggggggggggg contracts committed to aging stars, some already significantly fading. Dallas, SJ, Habs, Cats, Preds, et al..so many teams have $ commitments close to a decade remaining.

 

Our current cap-crunch will simply force Mgt to be more disciplined(spending, building) in the short term, utilizing each ELC, when they're ready to push out the aging depth-stiffs.

Edited December 17, 2019 by Nuxfanabroad

[Timråfan]

8 minutes ago, BrockBoester said:

I'm now fully convinced that you are actually Loui Eriksson himself.

 

Nice to meet you!

I don'tbelieve a new coach would use Loui. I think the new coach put Loui in Utica and try some prospects to see wich ones are close to take the next step. 

 

So continue to analyze bad. 

[Dumb Nuck]

On 12/11/2019 at 4:23 PM, Nuxfanabroad said:

I'm hoping for an open-ended thread, that'll lend itself to ideas, input & discussion on the team's rebuilding pace. Unsure if there's appetite for it, but here's the hypothetical:

 

Dec becomes an absolute drag(2-7, last 9 games)..& we stumble/fumble into 2020 w/38 pts, in 40 games. All skaters stay at about the pt % they're currently on. Edler is back in mid, late Jan, maybe only Ferland is LTIR.

(pls accept these given^ variables, for ease of thread debate/discussion). Then I'd like to hear from any/all posters, your ideas for the season's 2nd half, if this(or fairly close) were to transpire. A few that I can start off with:

 

1- We're NOT gonna pull a StLoo. for anyone who might point back to that. No, our key guys would still be simply too young.

2- So do you trade some value/key guys, to collect picks AND stealth-tank? I feel this would be a very fair question/idea.

3- Sign Jacob? Trade him? Keep status-quo w/our tandem?

4- What to do about the head coach? Is he down to wks/season-end?

5- Focus more returns(from deals) on youth to help Comets? EG: More young prospects in return, than picks?

 

*****some random opinions*****

 

I'd like Tram back in black. A 3 or 4 yr deal, around 10-12 mill should entice. I'd trade Tanev & maybe the Big Tuna. For these types, a 2nd & prospect probably is worthwhile.

Maybe move Benn to RhD-side? Let's try some of our depth, young D in 2nd half, especially Sautner & Brisebois. What do we REALLY have in these young players?

If they implode..who cares? 2020 1st just keeps inching higher. Rafferty is debatable(he's really styling down there..maybe let him run w/it). OJ needs time, so don't rush him.

 

- accept some 2021 picks(instead of 2020) if you can upgrade the rounds, for some of our fwds, say. Patience

- Let's roll the dice more with youth in the 2nd half. DON'T recall kids, just so they make the F***ing coffee.

- Trade some vets, & sign some college kids(Lockwood, Madden, Rathbone)

 

We'll still have lots of vets in 2020-21(Edler, Myers, JT, Beags, etc...), but I think it's time that over half our roster SHOULD be guys under 25. Roll with it(the good & bad) & just let them GROW together.

1) Fire Green!

 

In the past 10 years, four teams have gone on to win the Stanley Cup after firing their head coach during the season.

 

Better odds than 0/50

[ItTakesAnArmy]

On 12/13/2019 at 6:40 PM, ShawnAntoski said:

Good points because they do seem unorganized compared to others and it seems to be more obvious, when they play a passing or more structured team like the Canes or Avs or etc.  Also, if it weren't for the on the fly adjustments of players like EP, we would probably see alot of drives from the boards with a long easy shot on net (a typical Virtanen drive); atleast, have players crashing the net.  

Not unorganized, the players are expected to play beyond their comfort zones, this is a player selection problem not a coaching issue.

 

Obviously posters that haven't played sports before don't understand that if a player has hands of stone that doesn't change no matter what the coach does and coaches now can't even yell at a player for fear of hurting that multi millionaire's feelings.

 

Green can play Pettersson until he drops and if the other team is covering him with their best checkers all night long then he will just get tired and frustrated. A quick way to ruin a young player's development, expect too much, put too much pressure on them and then demand more.

 

Remember the days of "he can only play what he has" in AV's days and "he is playing them too much" in reference to the Sedins and now that is all Green can do. This team is not built with a second scoring line, there was not enough due diligence in signing Ferland and Miller is not a player like Pettersson, Horvat, Hughes or Boeser, he is a very good complimentary player but not a line driver andwhat are those players just mentioned learning?

 

Fans and Poster's wanted Tort's fired, he was, Gillis fired, he was, Willie fired, he was, Linden quit and now they want Green fired because the team has not got the scoring it needs.

 

Change the target, the one man whose vision we see on the ice, the person responsible for building the team, the one constant that has had the team capped out and inhibited the team's ability to make trades, the leader that has signed so many clause contracts that have handcuffed the team, the person trading away the future for the now, the man that hand picked the last two coaches, the single individual in charge of hockey operations.

 

Yelling for Green's head is like getting the floor greeter canned because the store manager bought a bad product.

 

Lots of smoke and mirrors trying to deflect a root cause. Benning's vision is flawed, his evaluation skills are archaic and his plan or lack of a plan, a failure.

 

If the team crashes in January trade every expiring FA contract for picks, Markstrom and Tanev should get reasonable picks maybe 2nds or higher if they are future picks, Leivo and Schaller will get something because they are good support and depth playoff guys.

 

Bring back Tryamkin and Rafferty call up Lind to see how he is doing, play DiPietro and sign a FA vet backup. At the end of the season package a deal with Eriksson retaining half salary after he is paid his bonus on July 1 to help a cap team or just demote him period and eat the cap hit,

 

There are a couple of teams that might over pay for Markstrom right now and at the end of January.

 

Pretty much sell, sell, sell and try to get the best odds in the lottery and as many picks as possible. If Ottawa can strip their team and only be 6 points behind the Canucks then that can be a viable direction. Think of what this team would do with a drafted player able to step right into the game over the next two years  and then another 6+ years after.

 

That would help the cap and the number of high end players would all be close to the same age at the same time.

 

 

Edited December 17, 2019 by ItTakesAnArmy

[ShawnAntoski]

2 hours ago, ItTakesAnArmy said:

Not unorganized, the players are expected to play beyond their comfort zones, this is a player selection problem not a coaching issue.

 

Obviously posters that haven't played sports before don't understand that if a player has hands of stone that doesn't change no matter what the coach does and coaches now can't even yell at a player for fear of hurting that multi millionaire's feelings.

 

Green can play Pettersson until he drops and if the other team is covering him with their best checkers all night long then he will just get tired and frustrated. A quick way to ruin a young player's development, expect too much, put too much pressure on them and then demand more.

 

Remember the days of "he can only play what he has" in AV's days and "he is playing them too much" in reference to the Sedins and now that is all Green can do. This team is not built with a second scoring line, there was not enough due diligence in signing Ferland and Miller is not a player like Pettersson, Horvat, Hughes or Boeser, he is a very good complimentary player but not a line driver andwhat are those players just mentioned learning?

 

Fans and Poster's wanted Tort's fired, he was, Gillis fired, he was, Willie fired, he was, Linden quit and now they want Green fired because the team has not got the scoring it needs.

 

Change the target, the one man whose vision we see on the ice, the person responsible for building the team, the one constant that has had the team capped out and inhibited the team's ability to make trades, the leader that has signed so many clause contracts that have handcuffed the team, the person trading away the future for the now, the man that hand picked the last two coaches, the single individual in charge of hockey operations.

 

Yelling for Green's head is like getting the floor greeter canned because the store manager bought a bad product.

 

Lots of smoke and mirrors trying to deflect a root cause. Benning's vision is flawed, his evaluation skills are archaic and his plan or lack of a plan, a failure.

 

If the team crashes in January trade every expiring FA contract for picks, Markstrom and Tanev should get reasonable picks maybe 2nds or higher if they are future picks, Leivo and Schaller will get something because they are good support and depth playoff guys.

 

Bring back Tryamkin and Rafferty call up Lind to see how he is doing, play DiPietro and sign a FA vet backup. At the end of the season package a deal with Eriksson retaining half salary after he is paid his bonus on July 1 to help a cap team or just demote him period and eat the cap hit,

 

There are a couple of teams that might over pay for Markstrom right now and at the end of January.

 

Pretty much sell, sell, sell and try to get the best odds in the lottery and as many picks as possible. If Ottawa can strip their team and only be 6 points behind the Canucks then that can be a viable direction. Think of what this team would do with a drafted player able to step right into the game over the next two years  and then another 6+ years after.

 

That would help the cap and the number of high end players would all be close to the same age at the same time.

 

 

I dont profess to be an expert for Iam only a fan that likes to discuss anything Canucks - that is why Iam here to discuss rather than debate.  If you read my other comments, I am not arguing for anything major but rather something minor:  perhaps supplement or replace the assistants.  Based on my eye test (uninformed according to you), the on ice product is struggling and it showed against a more structured team like Vegas.  

 

I see a team that is still learning to win together and tough stretches like these are part of the process, to hopefully, create a stronger team.

 

I also had played some organize sport but I see things differently and good on you for sharing your opinion based on you sporting experience.  Both our GM and coach are first timers in there position in the NHL and with that some growing pains are to be expected.  Despite the noise, I still hope JB gets a chance to grow and win with his young core.  

Edited December 18, 2019 by ShawnAntoski

[Nuxfanabroad]

I wonder if anyone will/or has already(?) suggested recalling Baer again? Horvat has played so poorly of late, you have to consider if it could help?

[ItTakesAnArmy]

What has changed? Just looked back and this is even before the 2016 season started.

FYI this is not me, i just did a search and found pages of similar content.

 

Posted July, 2016

Just thought I would get a jump on this now as I see it coming in a few months.

 

At the start of the season the Canucks will be near the top of the division, closer to the end of November they will start to slide, come January they will be fighting for a wild card spot, at the trade deadline they will be 4 to 6 points out and say they think they can still make it, even though there are 4 or more teams they have to leap frog.

 

Somewhere between November and the trade deadline this;

 

Statements will be made about competing for a play off spot.

Then about competing game by game.

Then a statement of confidence in the coach.

.

 

At the trade deadline;

Statements about having no cap room to do deals.

The high cost of top line players. DUH!

Not a good enough return. (for a player at the end of the contract) because if they did that it would signal, to even the most dense fan, the playoffs are out of the question.

 

New ticket deals.

 

A huge amount of talk about Utica  and the players in Utica , .

I mean, does it really matter how well Utica does? The Marlies have been very good for a lot of years and TO still sucked.

 

Injuries will be blamed.

 

One of the reason's to fire JB is because he delayed and didn't do what he should have in his first year, REBUILD, instead of lying to the fans and saying management thought they were a competitive playoff team. Sure they surprised everyone in the NHL and then embarrassed themselves by letting little known 4th liner, Ferland, run them out of the rink in a classic one and done. Repeating the same stuff will shine light on their deficiencies as hockey people and magnify that they are nothing more than salesmen trying to squeeze the money out of your pocket by selling hope. Just watch and listen to the sales pitch over the next couple of months. Listen to what they said last year, then hit repeat.

 

The first year, a collapse could have happened and the fans would have been okay with it because of the Linden factor and that they are all rookies, of course the reward might have been a lottery pick as well. The second year, the sales team could have been selling youth. This year any improvement, be it player or team, at all.

 

 

Is this the second year now? 3 years later?

Did Calgary, Arizona and Edmonton go from behind to in front with more young players, under 24, on them?

Did the team start strong and then fade in November, every year since this post?

Have injuries been used as a reason every year without ever doing anything about it, depth or FA's?

Did Utica doing good make the Canucks better?

Has there been any big deals at the TDL?

Has the team been constantly capped out so no trades?

 

What has changed?

 

Edited December 19, 2019 by ItTakesAnArmy