[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at San Jose Sharks | Dec. 14, 2019

[theo5789]

2 hours ago, Timråfan said:

So, if Green make a bad job we still keep him because we can keep our 1st?

Is that what I said?

[Warhippy]

On a side note.

 

Jake Virtanen is starting to do all the great little things that is going to make him a solid NHL player.  Whether we won or lost.  He is finally starting to look like a gamer.  Defensively sound, starting to hit more and is not afraid to drive the net.  I am enjoying what him and Gaudette are doing out there lately

[Wanless]

1 hour ago, ItTakesAnArmy said:

Too many little dmen. They are getting mauled.

Hughes isn't good at defence so Myers tries to do too much.

Pinching dmen are good but the Canucks do it all the time and get caught.

Pettersson looks like a teenager, not in skill but the physicality and both Horvat and Boeser are starting to look stressed. Too high of expectations.

The bottom three lines are checking lines, those are the players.

 

Why aren't more draft picks playing? That is a GM issue that he has had 5 years to remedy.

 

Why aren't there more trades of player for player rather than draft pick for player? Because nobody want this team's players. Ferland, Eriksson and Baerstchi are not tradable, other have too high a cap hit for the position or have a clause. Could McCann have played for this team? How about spending over 28 million for less than 30 points or essentially 10 mil in the minors with Sven and Eriksson? Couldn't tha money have been used elsewhere to sign maybe a Taylor Hall?

Do you even read your posts or know how bad they sound.

 

Our d core is too small is an argument you have

 

We traded McCann for Gudbranson (big stay at home guy) didn't quite work out, but you would clearly rather have kept McCann

 

You complain about no draft picks playing for the team

 

Umm.... Virtanen, Horvat, Hughes, Gaudette, Boeser, Petterson (get a clue)

 

Complaining that too many picks are being used to trade for players yet continually bring up McCann and how he could bring something to the team. Are you aware that in the last 15 games Pearson has 14 points and 20 on the season 

 

 

I get criticism. I don't like Coach Green, but it's who we have so I've said my price about him and moved on

 

You just seem to not know what you like and don't like because nothing you ever say is anything but negative, not a truth to it

 

Get a clue bud

Edited December 15, 2019 by Wanless

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, ItTakesAnArmy said:

Too many little dmen. They are getting mauled.

Hughes isn't good at defence so Myers tries to do too much.

Pinching dmen are good but the Canucks do it all the time and get caught.

Pettersson looks like a teenager, not in skill but the physicality and both Horvat and Boeser are starting to look stressed. Too high of expectations.

The bottom three lines are checking lines, those are the players.

 

Why aren't more draft picks playing? That is a GM issue that he has had 5 years to remedy.

 

Why aren't there more trades of player for player rather than draft pick for player? Because nobody want this team's players. Ferland, Eriksson and Baerstchi are not tradable, other have too high a cap hit for the position or have a clause. Could McCann have played for this team? How about spending over 28 million for less than 30 points or essentially 10 mil in the minors with Sven and Eriksson? Couldn't tha money have been used elsewhere to sign maybe a Taylor Hall?

So.  Benning starts 3 years ago to turn the team around after missing the playoffs once in 6 years and only for the 3rd time since 99-2000 and he's had 5 years so it should magically be ok?  With literally 3 draft picks that have made the team since 2007 and zero depth at all, an average age of 32.4 years on the roster, 7 NTCs on players making more than $4.25 million over the age of 30 and it should magically just all be better?

 

You're aware in the 3.5 years since we started the rebuild, since the last time we made the playoffs, Benning shed 6 of those 7 NTCs, dropped the average age of the team from 32.4 years to 25.7 years and stockpiled from nothing, one of the top 5 prospect pipelines in the entire league.

 

Your expectations are not only too high they're absolutely laughably unrealistic.  Yzerman took over a Lightning team that had 3 top 3 picks in 5 years and effectively traded everyone, but also had one of the deepest prospect pools in the league.  He got nothing done.  Sakic took over an Avs team that made the playoffs once in 6 years and had a cumulative 5 top 3 picks in 6 years, 6 if you got back a shade further and include Duchene.  But still has nothing to show for it.

 

benning has done a solid job with this team and aside from his first 18 months worth of trades/contracts.  He has average 3+ picks per draft that have become NHL players which is far above league average and is just hitting again and again and again.  His contracts over the past 3.5 years have not only fit our timeline perfectly for length and term but ensure that our kids who will need long term contracts will have the cap space to get them.

 

Honestly, you're whining without a single solid foot to stand on.  Hall?  Sorry remind me when Hall was ever available for a signing, as he went directly from edmonton to NJ.  McCann?  Sure he looks good, but then playing behind Crosby and Malkin sure makes his job easy and his 20.2 point per season average would sure help this team.  You're not contributing you're complaining and nothing you've said is even remotely true when the numbers are actually looked at.

[nuck-lifer]

Some need to calm their expectations with this team.

Before the season started we were projected as a bubble team to make the playoffs and 3 points out with games in hand, that's exactly where we're at.

We're building a team around 3 calder winners or candidates which not many teams can boast about so the future looks incredibly bright, but with that young team the roller coaster ride is going to be more extreme while players develop.

People think this rebuild has been since we fired Torts, but it really has only been about 2-3 years since just before the Sedins retired IMO

Miller, Pearson, Leivo, Jake, and Gaudette in our top 9 are all playing above expectations so our forward group is worthy of a playoff bound team even without Ferland, and Motte right now. Some of the credit goes to Green as he plays them to their strengths.

 

Anyway I think we're still heading the right direction with fast and heavy team built for playoffs, while navigating those speed bumps with our young guns and we're only going to get better.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LateNightBus]

10 hours ago, captainhorvat said:

Bag skate the whole team tomm

And the coaches too

[ItTakesAnArmy]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

So.  Benning starts 3 years ago to turn the team around after missing the playoffs once in 6 years and only for the 3rd time since 99-2000 and he's had 5 years so it should magically be ok?  With literally 3 draft picks that have made the team since 2007 and zero depth at all, an average age of 32.4 years on the roster, 7 NTCs on players making more than $4.25 million over the age of 30 and it should magically just all be better?

Benning started 6 years ago.

Average age was 28.6 before he made any moves, after it was 29.4, he made the team older.

Since 2007 the pressure was on to win as the team already had the twins and Kesler playing great, nobody, posters or fans, were worried about draft picks, they were worried about Chicago. Nobody complained about trading away a #25 pick for Ballard, AV would not play Grabner because he wasn't a 3rd liner and the only draft pick, Coho had a genetic condition so bad that it eventually ended his career, at the time Detroit was being held up as the model method to build a team, Detroit traded away over half their first round picks, it was the times, if the team was picking after #20, then it was good trade fodder somewhat similar to today, top ten picks have always been coveted, Gilis's only pick under #10 now leads this team so it was more to do with where the pick was rather than not being good, not many after #20 made impacts for any team.

 

There was not 7 NTC's, All Gillis clause players waived when asked to, only the Benning clause players have refused, all of them. Benning is the guy that over paid most of the contracts he has signed.

 

14 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

You're aware in the 3.5 years since we started the rebuild, since the last time we made the playoffs, Benning shed 6 of those 7 NTCs, dropped the average age of the team from 32.4 years to 25.7 years and stockpiled from nothing, one of the top 5 prospect pipelines in the entire league.

 

Your expectations are not only too high they're absolutely laughably unrealistic.  Yzerman took over a Lightning team that had 3 top 3 picks in 5 years and effectively traded everyone, but also had one of the deepest prospect pools in the league.  He got nothing done.  Sakic took over an Avs team that made the playoffs once in 6 years and had a cumulative 5 top 3 picks in 6 years, 6 if you got back a shade further and include Duchene.  But still has nothing to show for it.

 

benning has done a solid job with this team and aside from his first 18 months worth of trades/contracts.  He has average 3+ picks per draft that have become NHL players which is far above league average and is just hitting again and again and again.  His contracts over the past 3.5 years have not only fit our timeline perfectly for length and term but ensure that our kids who will need long term contracts will have the cap space to get them.

 

Honestly, you're whining without a single solid foot to stand on.  Hall?  Sorry remind me when Hall was ever available for a signing, as he went directly from edmonton to NJ.  McCann?  Sure he looks good, but then playing behind Crosby and Malkin sure makes his job easy and his 20.2 point per season average would sure help this team.  You're not contributing you're complaining and nothing you've said is even remotely true when the numbers are actually looked at

Revisionist history here, a lot of it and a lot of mis information that is very easy to argue.  Only the Sedins retiring lowered the age, Benning signed more over 30 guys every year

My expectations are that this team needs another two highly skilled players and another year at least before serious talk of playoffs should be planned for,

 

Benning has the record for most losses by any Canuck GM, tied for the record for most consecutive seasons missed, worst team in the league over a 4+ year period, most capped out years, most draft picks traded away, most clause contracts, fewest player for player trades, most NHL players allowed to walk for nothing, a league highest paid regular bottom 6 forwards. Fired 2 coaches already,

[hlinkas wrister]

I had to play hockey last night and couldn't watch the game so I tried a little experiment instead: I read the PGT when I got home from my game, slept on what the general CDC narrative seemed to be and then watched a replay of the game this morning. My conclusion? I don't think I should get my Canucks reports from game threads haha.

 

Let's start with the first one- according to CDC, Virtanen on the first line was a tire fire and the only reason the Canucks pulled themselves back into the game was because TG pulled his head out of his butt and put the old lines back together. The reality- Jake played a total of 3-4 shifts only on the line and he didn't make a single mistake. Why do you think Travis put him there? He put him there because lately when Brock is on that line they have been spending entire 5V5 shifts getting physically dominated in their own zone (partially because of Petey's lack of strength but also because of Brock's lack of speed). When Jake is on that line the ice tilts the other way because opposing d-men wont pressure as hard when they know a big guy who can skate as well as Jake is on the ice, and the more time Petey and J.T. spend in the o-zone the better. Was it a really a success to put the old lines back together? For the rest of the game, the "lotto line" was a minus 5 without Jake while Gaudette's line (with Jake) became the best line on the ice hands down. 

 

The second takeaway I got from the GDT and PGT was that the Canucks played uninspired sluggish hockey in the first half of the game, but the reality was nothing of the sort. The Sharks came out hard last night (understandably so after a coach firing), they didn't allow the Canucks time on the puck in any zone, they were getting all the bounces and they were taking advantage of home-ice line mismatches. Frankly, the Canucks looked up for the challenge but the Sharks were just, well, better. If you want to lay blame anywhere, lay it on the powerplay because the back to back delay of game PP's we got in the first were completely squandered. Note to Newell Brown- tell the boys to move the puck more quickly if you don't want to get pressured out of the zone. This habit of holding onto the puck so long that the PK'ers get sticks in the lane and force guys to try to sauce pucks that bounce out of the zone is getting tired af.

 

Anyways, sorry for rambling on, I don't usually get this long-winded but that was my read on the tilt. Oh, and one last thing- a pro tip for all NHL defencemen. If you see Tanner Pearson coming down the ice on a 2 on 1 (or any other time), don't play the pass. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

NTCs aren’t good in any argument as they still serve a purpose no matter what stage a team is in (provided the contract isn’t bloody awful).  Benning has signed currently eight NTC type contracts (I’ve lumped MNCs in the same category) on this team.  That isn’t itself an indictment of him as a number of them were required to secure their needed services.

Edited December 15, 2019 by NewbieCanuckFan

[LateNightBus]

5 hours ago, Hairy Kneel said:

Our shooters are lacking the killer instinct to score.

Our shooters are looking like hope and a prayer type shooting.

Throw some hot sauce on those dogs!

 

Sometimes I wonder about shots on goal......seems a lot are directed right at the center of the goalie 

[ItTakesAnArmy]

3 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

NTCs aren’t good in any argument as they still serve a purpose no matter what stage a team is in (provided the contract isn’t bloody awful).  Benning has signed currently eight NTC type contracts (I’ve lumped MNCs in the same category) on this team.  That isn’t itself an indictment of him as a number of them we’re required to secure their needed services.

They are useful the bigger issue is the level and age of the player's involved.

[ShawnAntoski]

3 hours ago, theo5789 said:

The market shouldn't force rash decisions. This market is passionate, but isn't always right. We have seen this time and time again. 

It shouldn't but it has happened.  We will just have to wait and see.  

Edited December 15, 2019 by ShawnAntoski

[J.I.A.H.N]

Man, what a bunch of whiny babies...

There is a lot of veteran CDC here that are disappointing me

 

Look! We have had 5 breakaways the last 2 games, countless posts and cross bars

If they go in, everyone is still seated in the bandwagon

But, we don't and oh my god, the world is coming to an end.

 

It is not that we do not have warts to fix

We are a young team, and our core is still learning

and I believe our young coaches are as well

 

Benning pointed out that, most Cup winners, have an

core that are mature, and our core is still young

We are at this time depending on a young rookie defenseman to lead us

as well as a just as young centerman

 

Our team reminds me of the young Oiler team that ended up in the finals

when Gretzky and Messier were just young, and they had played the Islanders for the cup

The Old guys won and the young guys seen what  it took to win it all

 

The Oilers went on to be a dynasty....and I am not saying we are on our way

Only that we are inexperienced at this point, both as a team and our core.

IMO, we are growing, and most of the league has noticed.

 

This is a evolution, and should not be a revolution, this is a journey.....

and you are getting out, too early

 

I am not too particular on our special team coaches, but every time we score 5

I clam up about them, and think we have arrived, so generally, I am willing to wait a little longer

 

Green is second guessed a lot by a local CDC, but if we score on those break-aways

most would be silent...…...with the same coaches, coaching!

 

Should you see improvement...yes!  Are you seeing improvement....Yes!

 

CDC, be patient...let them figure it out

 

Sure in 1 or 2 years, if we are still having this conversation, then yes, changes will need to be made

[ShawnAntoski]

4 hours ago, theo5789 said:

We want to win every game, but that's not realistic. How quickly people forget the years we've had some of the lowest scoring in the league. The games are far more entertaining this 

A TYPICAL fan realistically, wants there team to win and improve.   I understand your point of view is to preach patience with sarcasm - dont really enjoy the condensing tone of your responses (have a good day and moving on).  Been a long time fan and still hoping for a playoff berth this year.... GCG !

Edited December 15, 2019 by ShawnAntoski

[Warhippy]

20 minutes ago, ItTakesAnArmy said:

Benning started 6 years ago.

 

Average age was 28.6 before he made any moves, after it was 29.4, he made the team older.

 

Since 2007 the pressure was on to win as the team already had the twins and Kesler playing great, nobody, posters or fans, were worried about draft picks, they were worried about Chicago. Nobody complained about trading away a #25 pick for Ballard, AV would not play Grabner because he wasn't a 3rd liner and the only draft pick, Coho had a genetic condition so bad that it eventually ended his career, at the time Detroit was being held up as the model method to build a team, Detroit traded away over half their first round picks, it was the times, if the team was picking after #20, then it was good trade fodder somewhat similar to today, top ten picks have always been coveted, Gilis's only pick under #10 now leads this team so it was more to do with where the pick was rather than not being good, not many after #20 made impacts for any team.

 

There was not 7 NTC's, All Gillis clause players waived when asked to, only the Benning clause players have refused, all of them. Benning is the guy that over paid most of the contracts he has signed.

 

Revisionist history here, a lot of it and a lot of mis information that is very easy to argue.  Only the Sedins retiring lowered the age, Benning signed more over 30 guys every year

My expectations are that this team needs another two highly skilled players and another year at least before serious talk of playoffs should be planned for,

 

Benning has the record for most losses by any Canuck GM, tied for the record for most consecutive seasons missed, worst team in the league over a 4+ year period, most capped out years, most draft picks traded away, most clause contracts, fewest player for player trades, most NHL players allowed to walk for nothing, a league highest paid regular bottom 6 forwards. Fired 2 coaches already,

No.  Your reading comprehension is terrible.  let's dissect this all we

 

Benning started 5.5 years ago.  We last made the playoffs in 2014/2015, the Boeser draft.  Post 2015/2016 was when we started rebuilding.  Re-read what I wrote.

 

Our average team age at that time as 32 years or so.

 

2007, Kesler had only been in the league for 2 seasons and nobody had him "playing great" at all.  At that point the twins were only 78 point players over their previous 2 seasons and prior's to that only 40 point players.  So again, what?

 

We had literally 3 draft picks pan out in over a decade one of them being Mason Raymond.  It doesn't matter where picks are acquired or chosen as your model detroit, made bank on late round picks for almost 15 years including Zetterberg and Datsyuk

 

Keith Ballard wasn't even traded for until 2010/2011.  So again, what?  Unsure if you meant about the trade but he had nothing to do with 2007, in 2007 we were barely a bubble team with a good cast post Bertuzzi

 

Our roster when Benning took over had as of 2013/2014 7 NTC/NMC or two way contracts that prohibited Benning from making any major moves with the core.  Benning, as I stated also made some errors in judgement in his first 18 months but has been quite solid since.  Benning has averaged a few signings of vets that in no way shape or form have handcuffed the team at all.

 

You have no idea what you're talking about, obviously missed the 95/99 seasons and certainly missed 1984-1990

 

benning is doing fine period.  You're whining.  You've fabricated a ton of BS and are moving goal posts constantly over the past few pages.  Your own conflicting statements show that.

 

So stop, things are fine.  We might not make the playoffs this year and that's ok.  The team is better, the team is deeper and nothing you can say changes that

[Warhippy]

36 minutes ago, ItTakesAnArmy said:

They are useful the bigger issue is the level and age of the player's involved.

signing a 30 year old player to a 2-3 year deal while having a player entering on an ELC is not an issue as the timelines work out perfectly

 

Simply looking at our current cap and contract situation and the timelines of who needs extensions vs who is out is almost seamless.  eriksson is our only question mark and Seattle is an option for the price of a 3rd round pick and a minor bit of retention.  Stop complaining

Edited December 15, 2019 by Warhippy

[J.I.A.H.N]

3 minutes ago, ShawnAntoski said:

A typical fan realistically, wants there team to win and improve and I understand your point of view is to stay the course or patience with some sarcasm.  Been a long time fan and still hoping for a playoff berth.  

Sure we are......everyone wants the playoffs

 

But what we are seeing here, is a young team evolving and learning

 

It is not like San Jose does not have some good players

 

and a team under the microscope, who had just lost their coach

 

If they were not playing hard tonight, well, I think Wilson would have gone crazy

 

One though on the game, is that I noticed was as the game went on SJ slowed down (in general)

 

and we looked better....

 

I just watch with amazement when ever Quinn is on the ice....what poise for a young guy

 

It is our young guys that get me excited and looking forward to the next game

 

It is their development that gives me my rush...……...

[ShawnAntoski]

4 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

Sure we are......everyone wants the playoffs

 

But what we are seeing here, is a young team evolving and learning

 

It is not like San Jose does not have some good players

 

and a team under the microscope, who had just lost their coach

 

If they were not playing hard tonight, well, I think Wilson would have gone crazy

 

One though on the game, is that I noticed was as the game went on SJ slowed down (in general)

 

and we looked better....

 

I just watch with amazement when ever Quinn is on the ice....what poise for a young guy

 

It is our young guys that get me excited and looking forward to the next game

 

It is their development that gives me my rush...……...

That is a good point of view and let the process take care of the outcome.  

Edited December 15, 2019 by ShawnAntoski

[MikeyD]

12 hours ago, J-23 said:

No more dump and chase hockey.

Yep, that's what kills us every game we lose. We don't forecheck. Just dump it and don't even really go after the puck with purpose. When we dominate teams we actually give the effort on the dumps. If I'm the coach I'm giving hell after every change without pressure.

[VanIsleNuckFan]

Bo Horvat - top 6 minutes + regular PP time = 9 goals

 

Jake Virtanen - bottom 6 minutes + limited or no pp time = 8 goals

 

Ah, good one, tell us another story regarding proper deployment of your lines TG!