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[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at San Jose Sharks | Dec. 14, 2019

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12 hours ago, fanfor42 said:

SJ had lost 6 in a row going into this game.  Critical weekend for the Canucks.  and Green decides to screw up the lines to 0pen the game.  We were lost for half the game because of it.  Why? That is terrible coaching.

 

 

Have you not watched the past 10 games?  We've seen Elias, Brock and JT Miller do jack s*it for the last (10x3) 30 periods at 5 on 5.  Switching up the lines for 1.5 periods was actually a good thing for everyone on that line. 
Brock had actually one of the most engaged games that we've seen in a while, even though he didn't score, and that could be said is because of the lineup shuffle.  

It's not coach's fault that our defensemen couldn't break up the cycle by the Sharks.  You can keep on hating on the coach all you want, but it's going to be a looooong season for you bud, he's not getting fired any time soon ;) 

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2 hours ago, debluvscanucks said:

People start grumbling before it's even over...even in a 1 goal deficit game.  Like they wait for it so they can unleash all the angst of their lives.

After the Sharks' 2nd goal I cued up all the "game over" sobbers, which included a couple mods, btw.  When Jake scored I was about to unleash it, but kept finger off the trigger...

Edited by Gaudette Celly
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To answer all above - we aren't skating, no one plays with any urgency - everyone is too laid back. That's on coaching. Has he (TG) lost the room? Is he just too easy on most of the guys? 

 

I dunno but I see a team that if we came out with more urgency we would have won a bunch of these losses. A whole banana sized bunch.

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I am questioning pulling the goaltender in a one goal game with a few minutes left.  I don't know that the extra man nullifies the wide open net that's just too easy to put a game away in.  I'd prefer we have someone there and don't give up the goal(s) that seal the deal.

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There is a reason why most teams dump and chase...…..

 

Read this:  https://www.thepointhockey.com/dump-ins-a-trend-on-the-rise/

 

Now what I am seeing is a little of both, and it is interesting to see Roussel, Gaudette and Virtanen on the dump and chase...….I think they succeed most times

So it works for them...……..

 

On the other hand...……..

 

I watched Quinn carry the puck in and do a little Gretzky delay (curl) just over the blue line, having pushed the Dman back with his speed and shiftiness, so it is happening both ways, depending on who has the puck and the positional circumstances

 

But everyone should read this article on the dump and chase...……..I thought it was interesting

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1 minute ago, VanIsleNuckFan said:

To answer all above - we aren't skating, no one plays with any urgency - everyone is too laid back. That's on coaching. Has he (TG) lost the room? Is he just too easy on most of the guys? 

 

I dunno but I see a team that if we came out with more urgency we would have won a bunch of these losses. A whole banana sized bunch.

My suggestion is not fire Green, but bring in someone else.  A DeBoer, Babs personality.  This does not mean make Green or one of them an assistant coach, it means bringing them in on an associate role.  We see it in soccer frequently, where a head coach is paired with another head coach  without loss of status.  It would also ensure that we don't run afoul of contract rules as there would be no outright hiring for a full coaching position 

 

Green is decent, but he's missing something.

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3 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

There is a reason why most teams dump and chase...…..

 

Read this:  https://www.thepointhockey.com/dump-ins-a-trend-on-the-rise/

 

Now what I am seeing is a little of both, and it is interesting to see Roussel, Gaudette and Virtanen on the dump and chase...….I think they succeed most times

So it works for them...……..

 

On the other hand...……..

 

I watched Quinn carry the puck in and do a little Gretzky delay (curl) just over the blue line, having pushed the Dman back with his speed and shiftiness, so it is happening both ways, depending on who has the puck and the positional circumstances

 

But everyone should read this article on the dump and chase...……..I thought it was interesting

An eye test and common sense would tell a hockey nut the same things. 

The same deductions can be said for the PP-back pass play. 

 

One size doesn’t fit all. 

 

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1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

My suggestion is not fire Green, but bring in someone else.  A DeBoer, Babs personality.  This does not mean make Green or one of them an assistant coach, it means bringing them in on an associate role.  We see it in soccer frequently, where a head coach is paired with another head coach  without loss of status.  It would also ensure that we don't run afoul of contract rules as there would be no outright hiring for a full coaching position 

 

Green is decent, but he's missing something.

I think it's too early to react, but I have to start criticizing the guy. These losses are very consistently not skating, no urgency, poor passing. I mean fundamental stuff.

 

He should have them running the "puke" every practice if you get my drift. (J/k lol)

 

but seriously, TG has to take a step forward here, get some fire in these boys, get em riled up, beat some lockers with a stick, get maaaaad, get annngry! God damn!

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5 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Bo Horvat is being relied upon too much. 

Time to give AG a shot at c, before these games and seasons really matter. 

Eventually, Bo will be the 3C, wait and see.

I don't agree with you there but maybe that's wishful thinking. I think Bo is tired and is overplayed. I think a proper deployment would be to rotate the lines more evenly, and stop pulling the Torts mindset of playing your top guys for 20 mins every night. 3 and 4 were very effective last night and against the leafs also. Why not rotate more evenly. Love me some Beags, love me some Sutter, even Schaller is awesome ffs. I'll take more JV, AR and AG any day of the week also!

 

even rotation, wins playoff series, why not get everyone up for that now plus not wear Guys out. Holy moly, so obvious!

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8 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

I am questioning pulling the goaltender in a one goal game with a few minutes left.  I don't know that the extra man nullifies the wide open net that's just too easy to put a game away in.  I'd prefer we have someone there and don't give up the goal(s) that seal the deal.

I’m always a believer of letting your top guys try and tie it 5 on 5 for as long as possible. This pulling of the goalie with 3+ minutes left is too risky.

 

If they can press for the final couple minutes and even draw a penalty, then you’re on the power play with a 6 on 4 possibility.

 

But you have to have sustained pressure. Don’t pull the goalie because you have the puck for one second. You gotta be in control which we clearly weren’t.

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1 minute ago, VanIsleNuckFan said:

I think it's too early to react, but I have to start criticizing the guy. These losses are very consistently not skating, no urgency, poor passing. I mean fundamental stuff.

 

He should have them running the "puke" every practice if you get my drift. (J/k lol)

 

but seriously, TG has to take a step forward here, get some fire in these boys, get em riled up, beat some lockers with a stick, get maaaaad, get annngry! God damn!

Kind of goes back to training camp.  Stecher running himself to puking, a few others coasting on skill.

 

I've seen some questionable coaching decisions.  But looking at their special teams it's not actually all bad.  5v5 is...well 5v5 has been a question mark for a long long time going back further than Green or benning.

 

Something will give.  But I'm certainly not worried this year

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15 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

An eye test and common sense would tell a hockey nut the same things. 

The same deductions can be said for the PP-back pass play. 

 

One size doesn’t fit all. 

 

Yes, I agree....but not all CDC understand "Tactics"

 

I have coached for a lot of years, including reps, and still found the article interesting

 

I find it funny that there are certain CDC'ers on here that  do not understand, there is another team on the ice

 

trying to counter, what we are trying to do...…..

 

In San Jose case, they are older, more experienced, and heavier team, than ours

 

IMO, it takes a while to either tire the other team out, or find a way to keep them off balance......

 

Unless you are a top ten team, and already have the experience and talent to do so, from the get go

 

This is what you, I and others are trying to get across in general...….we are talented and just learning the other stuff

 

Our young guys are in a league playing against veteran's that are the best in the world...….. talent alone doesn't do it!

 

 

Edited by janisahockeynut
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2 minutes ago, VanIsleNuckFan said:

Bo Horvat - top 6 minutes + regular PP time = 9 goals

 

Jake Virtanen - bottom 6 minutes + limited or no pp time = 8 goals

 

Ah, good one, tell us another story regarding proper deployment of your lines TG!

 

Jake Virtanen was promoted to the top line, and rightfully so.  Elias had the most 5 on 5 posession in this game that I've seen in a long time.  When the lines got put back in the 2nd, Virtanen and Brock both played really well for the rest of the game.  The lineup shuffle was necessary IMO.  

I'd like to see Virtanen get double shifted from time to time as I think he would fit in well with Beagle and Schaller as well.  I kind of like him better in a crash-and-bang role. 

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3 minutes ago, VancouverHabitant said:

Jake Virtanen was promoted to the top line, and rightfully so.  Elias had the most 5 on 5 posession in this game that I've seen in a long time.  When the lines got put back in the 2nd, Virtanen and Brock both played really well for the rest of the game.  The lineup shuffle was necessary IMO.  

I'd like to see Virtanen get double shifted from time to time as I think he would fit in well with Beagle and Schaller as well.  I kind of like him better in a crash-and-bang role. 

I agree...

 

But isn't it funny how, slowly , people are starting to recognize Jakes value...…...

 

I was checking his stats the other day, and comparing League RWers...

 

He is very high 3rd line stats, top half of 2nd line stats, and even beating out 1 or 2 first line guys in some stats....

 

From what I was reading...…..Jake's got decent 2nd line stats......

 

which doesn't mean he has to be on the 2nd line, only that he has developed to that level...…..

 

I am starting to like his game...….I would like to see a little more hitting out of him...….but he has developed, quite a bit

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19 minutes ago, VanIsleNuckFan said:

I don't agree with you there but maybe that's wishful thinking. I think Bo is tired and is overplayed. I think a proper deployment would be to rotate the lines more evenly, and stop pulling the Torts mindset of playing your top guys for 20 mins every night. 3 and 4 were very effective last night and against the leafs also. Why not rotate more evenly. Love me some Beags, love me some Sutter, even Schaller is awesome ffs. I'll take more JV, AR and AG any day of the week also!

 

even rotation, wins playoff series, why not get everyone up for that now plus not wear Guys out. Holy moly, so obvious!

I’ve always cringed when teams played their top 6 forwards or stars on the PK, only to send them out for regular duty and even the PP.

 

To balance out the roster, why not give AG the 2C minutes... ya, ya, his FO% sucks, but he’ll learn during the rebuild, and let Horvat continue to be deployed exactly where he is needed, on the defensive side of the puck as he offsets the oft-injured Sutter and Beagle. 

 

I might be optimistic with AG, but I still think the offensive side of the top 6 is a toss up between those two centres right now, but there is a definitely a defensive standout among the two. Play to their strengths and to build effective, balanced lines. 

 

As an aside here, I still want to see both Lowry and Edmundson traded here. 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

I’m always a believer of letting your top guys try and tie it 5 on 5 for as long as possible. This pulling of the goalie with 3+ minutes left is too risky.

 

If they can press for the final couple minutes and even draw a penalty, then you’re on the power play with a 6 on 4 possibility.

 

But you have to have sustained pressure. Don’t pull the goalie because you have the puck for one second. You gotta be in control which we clearly weren’t.

Canucks have actually excelled this year when they pull the goalie and go 6 vs. 4, so I'm in favour of doing it as early as possible (3 minutes left is perfect). 

Now I think that Canucks have had terrible line changes all year long.  I'm talking lots of Too Many Men penalties, guys going for a line change while the opposition comes in for a 3 on 2, or a 4 on 2 and now you can add pulling a goalie at the wrong time.  

Canucks have never stopped trying this season and they're playing hard for coach Green.  This whole nonsense that I keep seeing on this board about Green being responsible for JT Miller leaving his fridge door open at home is ridiculous.  It's fair game to blame him for bad game management but I'm seeing a team out there that's competing hard .  We saw what it looks like when a team gives up on a coach in the last half a season under Willie D.  

Anyways that was another case of bad timing for the goalie pull last night.  This coaching staff's line change IQ is not very high, they're missing the little things 

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24 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

I agree...

 

But isn't it funny how, slowly , people are starting to recognize Jakes value...…...

 

I was checking his stats the other day, and comparing League RWers...

 

He is very high 3rd line stats, top half of 2nd line stats, and even beating out 1 or 2 first line guys in some stats....

 

From what I was reading...…..Jake's got decent 2nd line stats......

 

which doesn't mean he has to be on the 2nd line, only that he has developed to that level...…..

 

I am starting to like his game...….I would like to see a little more hitting out of him...….but he has developed, quite a bit

Agreed. For 12 minutes a game, Virt is putting up some pretty good numbers. The best, I believe, for that ice time.

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