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[PGT] Montreal Canadiens at Vancouver Canucks | Dec. 17, 2019

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47 minutes ago, Gaudette Celly said:

Thank goodness the short-sighted reactionaries aren't running this team.

 

 

#crazytown

#thatswhatlosersdo

Not if the team he wanted is regressing and continues  to falter.  If this is the team green wanted, it should  be improving and moving in a positive direction, not back-sliding at warp speed.

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5 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

Lol so that's like firing a coach just for the sake of firing a coach and hire one that's not really a fit. I'm all for getting rid of green.. but I prefer ome that is actually a fit or at least one that is offensive minded.. i mean we ain't great defensively and we are horrible offensively.. getting another defensive minded one ain't gonna help us score more than 1 goal a night 

If Larry Robinson was available I'd try and get him.  He's the only players coach like Quin where guys would literally go through walls for him.   And that's what we need right now.  The other one but down the list is John McLean.  We don't need a tactical coach like AV (yet) as we don't have the troops for it at the moment.  I like Green expect for his in game decisions (which aren't terrible, but not great either).   CDC seems to want a NHL experienced guy what about Yeo? (OK that's a complete joke- NO thanks).   It's possible Green will lose his job soon if things don't turn around -  but it's a crapshoot as far as actual results go and it definitely could signal the beginning of the end for the JB regime - especially if it back-fires.   Changes are coming either way

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Firing a coach is tricky for a gm. You had better be sure that coaching is the Problem. You also better be sure there are better replacements. 

Otherwise you will be the one who looks bad in the end . 

Tricky 

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Glad that the play of the Canucks is no longer being seen as a bad game or two. It’s creeping on a bad two months. Either way something needs to change, with Green here or not. The player we have can do better than this and I for one would hate to see nothing change and let it slide till April. Write off another year? Terrible idea, as that would create a very poor loosing environment for our young up and coming. Can’t have change when they’re achievements are acceptable so for this I glad it’s hit a point where something might happen. Although can’t keep hitting rock bottom and not change coaching staff at all. Last kick at the can for sure for someone behind the bench. Let’s just hope there is a change in attitudes in the coach and players enough “ we played good..but” that’s just not true anymore. Maybe 5 good games in the last 20 isn’t playing well. If I’m JB and FA I call for a change in attitude at least and now! Before I start chopping heads.

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6 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

So what do you do when we change the coach and we still suck? I'm not really able to see inside the coaches and players minds like you guys but from what I've seen the young players, and even the vets are making terrible decisions system or no system. Maybe we're just not a top NHL team.

Hope... We can hope for a couple of years. That's why the coach change sometimes. 

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2 hours ago, Trebreh said:

Friedman should stick to being an insider. He has no pulse on this team.

 

Actually I thought it was a good listen, seemed very knowledgable on the roster, our injuries and struggles, and didn't pull any punches on the 10 million+ in dead salary we're carrying around.

 

We have a middle of the pack roster, that's why we're middle of the pack. If Markstrom wasnt playing like he has been it would be much worse.

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It must be so disheartening for the Canuck players when they look into the stands of their own and see row after row of the opposing team's jerseys and loud cheers being offered to their opponents. The whole arena was red yesterday. 

 

I'd just be there for a paycheque too.

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6 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

So what do you do when we change the coach and we still suck? I'm not really able to see inside the coaches and players minds like you guys but from what I've seen the young players, and even the vets are making terrible decisions system or no system. Maybe we're just not a top NHL team.

I prefer to take action.  You seem to believe that the answer is just to give up.

Make a coaching change.  Reset and start again. Don't just give up and throw your hands in the air.

 

 

 

 

 

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33 minutes ago, Rick_theRyper said:

Glad that the play of the Canucks is no longer being seen as a bad game or two. It’s creeping on a bad two months. Either way something needs to change, with Green here or not. The player we have can do better than this and I for one would hate to see nothing change and let it slide till April. Write off another year? Terrible idea, as that would create a very poor loosing environment for our young up and coming. Can’t have change when they’re achievements are acceptable so for this I glad it’s hit a point where something might happen. Although can’t keep hitting rock bottom and not change coaching staff at all. Last kick at the can for sure for someone behind the bench. Let’s just hope there is a change in attitudes in the coach and players enough “ we played good..but” that’s just not true anymore. Maybe 5 good games in the last 20 isn’t playing well. If I’m JB and FA I call for a change in attitude at least and now! Before I start chopping heads.

The last two games we weren't out of the game either one.   Saying we had five good games out of the past 20 is a stretch.   Most of the losses were close and quite a few of them their goalie was the difference.   Until that changes id also be pretty hesitant to fire the coach.  

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5 hours ago, Toyotasfan said:

What a garbage article.

 

 

The Vancouver Canucks played well Tuesday against the Montreal Canadiens and lost 3-1. The Canadiens were pretty good, too, and crushed the Canucks with two power-play goals in 94 seconds early in the third period at Rogers Arena.

 

The Canadiens believe. They’ve won five of their last seven games.

 

The Canucks say they believe, but their faith is being tested with four losses in five games in which Vancouver has outperformed its results. Will they keep believing? 

 

This statement is so dumb. If you win several in a row it's because you believe but if you lose it's because you don't. Well I guess Ian has figured out hockey .... it's simple. Pick up a bible.

 

This is pretty awesome though. Believe it CDC, proven source from the horse's mouth, surely an NHL player on the ice knows more than we do.

 

 

“That’s a gutsy, character win for sure on the road,” Montreal centre Max Domi said. “That’s a good hockey team over there. . . a young team with a lot of skill, a lot of speed, well-coached. We capitalized on our power play. I think overall it was a gutsy effort and we grinded it out. It’s a great way to start a road trip.” 

 

 

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3 hours ago, RUPERTKBD said:

 

A couple of things I disagree with however, are the idea that "dump and chase" is a strategy dictated by the coaching staff. That just isn't the way it works. Teams employ the dump and chase when they don't feel they can enter the opposing zone and safely maintain possession. Teams that attempt to do so under thos circumstances, invariably give up a lot of odd-man rushes the other way.....

 

We can certainly argue that the lack of possession in the opposing zone is symptomatic of a larger issue, but it's a mistake to claim that dumping the puck in is used as a "strategy".

When the players had the energy to outgrind the other teams at the beginning of the season it definately was used as a strategy. Even Petey or Brock spoke of what Miller taught them about dump and chase. 

Miller is so good at it he doesn't bother passing the puck any more... 

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10 minutes ago, IBatch said:

The last two games we weren't out of the game either one.   Saying we had five good games out of the past 20 is a stretch.   Most of the losses were close and quite a few of them their goalie was the difference.   Until that changes id also be pretty hesitant to fire the coach.  

Idk I think the end game stats and Markys play have made us look more evenly matched through these last two months when in truth we are drastically out played during whole periods and manage to come back to make it a close game isn’t really playing well. We’re very very lucky to have two good goalies or we’d be loosing by a lot more than a goal or two in most of these games. Lots I believe would be over during our slow 1st period starts. How many times have we heard Shorthouse say “ Canucks haven’t had a shot on net since... in the (blank) period” that’s becoming a trend the last two months, can’t reall say the games are that close when Marky is the only reason it is close at all. Zero shots in ten mins of hockey isn’t acceptable. Sooner or later you gotta demand better than that 

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2 hours ago, mll said:

Boeser talked about how Miller convinced them about the benefits of playing dump and chase.  

https://www.nhl.com/news/jt-miller-providing-leadership-for-vancouver-canucks/c-310401816

 

"Me and [Pettersson] sometimes want to make plays when we should get it deep, and that's what we're kind of learning from him," Boeser said. "Sometimes, we don't need to force those plays and (should) just get the puck deep, because we'll get it back if we get on the forecheck.

"So that's something that he's really talked to us about, because if you don't turn the puck over, you're going to be in the offensive zone. We won't spend as much time in the [defensive] zone. 

"Even if we're not scoring, I think we're creating chances. I think we haven't spent that much time in the [defensive] zone probably the longest stretch in our careers so far. We've been barely in our [defensive] zone and getting pucks deep and going to work."

 

Is Green or Miller the coach... 

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3 hours ago, RUPERTKBD said:

After slogging through all 23 pages of this thread, I'm reminded why I rarely visit CT after a loss......the predictable "Fire the coach / GM!", "poor effort", etc., etc.....

 

While I wouldn't really care if Green was let go, (teams seem to enjoy a period of success after a coaching change) I don't see it as an answer to anything really. I remember quite well, a ton of similar threads about AV in the years leading up to the 2011 Cup run. Sometimes staying the course is rewarded....

 

That being said, all coaches have their "whipping boys" and Green's appears to be Virtanen. Hopefully, he eventually gets over it, because Virt is the teams best skater and plays a physical game. Not a common combination.

 

A couple of things I disagree with however, are the idea that "dump and chase" is a strategy dictated by the coaching staff. That just isn't the way it works. Teams employ the dump and chase when they don't feel they can enter the opposing zone and safely maintain possession. Teams that attempt to do so under thos circumstances, invariably give up a lot of odd-man rushes the other way.....

 

We can certainly argue that the lack of possession in the opposing zone is symptomatic of a larger issue, but it's a mistake to claim that dumping the puck in is used as a "strategy".

 

Second, the special teams are currently in a funk, but the PP is still 4th in the league, while the PK is middle of the pack and missing it's top defenseman. Premature to crucify Brown at this point, IMHO.

 

One piece of advice I would give the coaching staff: Work on breakaways. My old Junior coach used to set aside the last 15 minutes of practice for a "Showdown in the NHL" type of competition. (Everyone takes penalty shots, with those that score shooting again, until a "champion" is decided) I can't count how many breakaways the 'Nucks have failed to score on in the course of this current slump, but it's a lot and even a bit more success may have resulted in a few extra points in the standings.

 

 

Wow, one more person that actually understands the game. Player's don't make split second decisions based on strategy, the do it by executing the best IQ play. The system is there to guide you when you don't have a decidedly better play. You don't just system through the middle of the ice. If you put Gallant on New Jersey his systems are not suddenly have NJ basking with possession, and never dumping the puck in, while leading the league in scoring. 

 

You play that style with lesser players like that and you're losing games 9-4, 10-3. 

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1 hour ago, erkayloomeh said:

Firing a coach is tricky for a gm. You had better be sure that coaching is the Problem. You also better be sure there are better replacements. 

Otherwise you will be the one who looks bad in the end . 

Tricky 

A good point....and one that many are overlooking.

 

If the GM axes the coach and the team doesn't improve, guess who's next on the hit list? I think JB will wait until at least the halfway point of the season.....

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Not much for positives in this PGT

We are a young team with veteran support players

The young core is learning

They are going to have some scraps and bruises as  they grow - heck maybe even break an arm or leg

That's how I see these losses - a learning experience for the younger core group

As fans we have little patience

Did you really think we were going to go far this season - push for a playoff spot yes - but we aren't there yet

I still see a couple more years of growing pains - right about the time Horvat is 27-28

Until then - enjoy the ride

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1 hour ago, IBatch said:

If Larry Robinson was available I'd try and get him.  He's the only players coach like Quin where guys would literally go through walls for him.   And that's what we need right now.  The other one but down the list is John McLean.  We don't need a tactical coach like AV (yet) as we don't have the troops for it at the moment.  I like Green expect for his in game decisions (which aren't terrible, but not great either).   CDC seems to want a NHL experienced guy what about Yeo? (OK that's a complete joke- NO thanks).   It's possible Green will lose his job soon if things don't turn around -  but it's a crapshoot as far as actual results go and it definitely could signal the beginning of the end for the JB regime - especially if it back-fires.   Changes are coming either way

I think a good start would be with assistant coaches or maybe get some professional opinion, from other coaches of how to improve the team.

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I don't get why they can't beat the Habs, it's not like they're great or anything. I wonder if it's just in their psyche, that it's the storied Montreal Canadiens in town, half the building is chanting Go Habs Go, and the Canucks have apparently lost like 8 or 9 in a row against the Canadiens. 

 

Playoffs?! How 'bout they win a game? 

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4 hours ago, mll said:

 

Benning this summer:  "The way (coach) Travis (Green) wants to play, he wants to play fast and he wants to get pucks behind the other team’s defencemen and get in on the forecheck, recover pucks and get to the net."

 

 

3 hours ago, RUPERTKBD said:

Again, a strategy. The complainers were making the case that it's the strategy.

I guess most people need the coaches or managers to explain more but what Benning left to the obvious was that barring an opportunity to skate the puck in the zone easily or make a simple passing play we want to dump the puck in and attack with speed and pressure. 

 

Now our execution may be off some nights but you never see the Canucks just dump it in for no reason. Mainly they are pigeon holed by the opposition without many other options. Possession through the middle requires skill. These guys are still learning how to transition through the neutral zone effectively. Sure coaching is factor but a whole lot is on the players themselves, reading, reacting, and making the right decisions. 

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This might be an unpopular opinion... But I'm pretty sure Edler is this teams most valuable player. 

 

He's our top minute logger and without him the team has been noticeably worse. 

 

Petey is probably our biggest superstar... Followed by The Brock, JT Thriller, QH43 and Captain Bo Billyunz... But Edler just has more impact on total team play. Not only because of his time on ice either. 

 

 

Edited by apollo
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