Popular Post *Buzzsaw* Posted December 18, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted December 18, 2019 There is no question this team has plenty of firepower and players who can shoot the puck and score. When you consider Pettersson, Boeser, Miller, Horvat, Hughes, Pearson, Sutter and Virtanen, there is no reason to doubt we have players will puck skill. We have also got a team with plenty of speed, considering Virtanen, Horvat, Miller, Pearson, Pettersson, Hughes, Roussel and Gaudette. But this team is challenged to score at even strength. Let's look at the facts.... below is a list of the top 5 NHL teams as well as their overall goal scoring and percentage PP scoring. Washington 101 even strength goals - 24 PP goals, total goals125... 19.2 % of total from PP. Boston 91 even strength goals - 27 PP goals, total goals 118... 22.9% of total from PP. St Louis 83 even strength goals - 24 PP goals, total 107 goals... 22.4% of total from PP. NY Islanders 80 even strength goals - 15 PP goals, total 95 goals... 15.8% of total from PP. Colorado 96 even strength goals - 23 PP goals, total 119 goals... 19.3% of total from PP. Now look at Vancouver: Vancouver 79 even strength goals... 32 PP goals, total of 111 goals... 28.8% of goals from PP. The Canucks have a significantly higher percentage of their goals from the PP.... and they are fortunate to have had a huge number of PP opportunities... otherwise they would be much worse in the standings. The Canucks have less even strength goals than notoriously defensive minded teams like St Louis and the Islanders. Look at the total of even strength goals per game for Washington and Vancouver: Washington: 2.89 goals per game even strength Vancouver: 2.25 goals per game even strength Depending on your PP to win games does not have a long term sucess record. Other teams can avoid taking penalties... and in the Playoffs, the whistles get put away. The question is, why is this team challenged to score at even strength? Quite simply, the coaching style that Green is promoting is not up to the standards of the NHL. It is not allowing the team to consistently gain the O-Zone in possession of the puck. If you look at the even strength goals the Canucks have scored in the last two months... most of them have not resulted from Dump and Chase... they have resulted from players gaining the O-Zone in possession... Adam Gaudette's last two goals are perfect examples. When you gain the O-Zone in possession, it almost always results in a shot... and the opportunity for a rebound. In fact, Green's system, which heavily relies on Dump and Chase, requires more effort... it is a fact Dump and Chase requires more energy to execute than pass to enter or carrying the puck into the zone... Players must forecheck to regain possession. And even if they regain the puck, they are on the boards, not moving with speed, and away from a clear shot at the front of the net. This team did well at the start of the season with Green's system... when they had lots of energy and the other team's were loosey goosey. But things have tightened up, goals have gotten scarcer, and Green has not adapted. With the exception of moment's of genius by Quinn Hughes, the team does not have a system in place to gain the O-Zone in possession. Green's basic system is dump and chase... the players will try to gain the zone in possession, but they have not been coached in the systems and structures which will allow them to do that consistently. What we see is: - Dump in at the Red line - Defenseman shoots the puck at a forward standing at the opposing blueline and he deflects it in - One player tries to carry the puck in without support - Two or three players line abreast try to move in together.... if they get across the blue line the puck is usually dumped to the wing, followed by a shot on net with the hope for a rebound. - Single winger enters and button hooks, but almost never has support What you don't see: - Canuck players criss cross prior to the blue line to confuse the defense. - Timed drop pass to a follow up forward or D after the initial player crosses the blue line. - Timed button hooks to the follow up player moving at speed through the center of the ice. - Spacing of entries to allow the followup on the wing to receive a drop pass from the initial winger entry... followed by a cut to the middle of the ice. In most cases it comes down to positioning and lack of support.... which are the basics.... they should be on any Coaches playbook. Green says he wants to simplify the Canuck's game... but he has simplified it to the point it is completely predictable. 3 1 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazzle Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 5 minutes ago, *Buzzsaw* said: There is no question this team has plenty of firepower and players who can shoot the puck and score. When you consider Pettersson, Boeser, Miller, Horvat, Hughes, Pearson, Sutter and Virtanen, there is no reason to doubt we have players will puck skill. We have also got a team with plenty of speed, considering Virtanen, Horvat, Miller, Pearson, Pettersson, Hughes, Roussel and Gaudette. But this team is challenged to score at even strength. Let's look at the facts.... below is a list of the top 5 NHL teams as well as their overall goal scoring and percentage PP scoring. Washington 101 even strength goals - 24 PP goals, total goals125... 19.2 % of total from PP. Boston 91 even strength goals - 27 PP goals, total goals 118... 22.9% of total from PP. St Louis 83 even strength goals - 24 PP goals, total 107 goals... 22.4% of total from PP. NY Islanders 80 even strength goals - 15 PP goals, total 95 goals... 15.8% of total from PP. Colorado 96 even strength goals - 23 PP goals, total 119 goals... 19.3% of total from PP. Now look at Vancouver: Vancouver 79 even strength goals... 32 PP goals, total of 111 goals... 28.8% of goals from PP. The Canucks have a significantly higher percentage of their goals from the PP.... and they are fortunate to have had a huge number of PP opportunities... otherwise they would be much worse in the standings. The Canucks have less even strength goals than notoriously defensive minded teams like St Louis and the Islanders. Look at the total of even strength goals per game for Washington and Vancouver: Washington: 2.89 goals per game even strength Vancouver: 2.25 goals per game even strength Depending on your PP to win games does not have a long term sucess record. Other teams can avoid taking penalties... and in the Playoffs, the whistles get put away. The question is, why is this team challenged to score at even strength? Quite simply, the coaching style that Green is promoting is not up to the standards of the NHL. It is not allowing the team to consistently gain the O-Zone in possession of the puck. If you look at the even strength goals the Canucks have scored in the last two months... most of them have not resulted from Dump and Chase... they have resulted from players gaining the O-Zone in possession... Adam Gaudette's last two goals are perfect examples. When you gain the O-Zone in possession, it almost always results in a shot... and the opportunity for a rebound. In fact, Green's system, which heavily relies on Dump and Chase, requires more effort... it is a fact Dump and Chase requires more energy to execute than pass to enter or carrying the puck into the zone... Players must forecheck to regain possession. And even if they regain the puck, they are on the boards, not moving with speed, and away from a clear shot at the front of the net. This team did well at the start of the season with Green's system... when they had lots of energy and the other team's were loosey goosey. But things have tightened up, goals have gotten scarcer, and Green has not adapted. With the exception of moment's of genius by Quinn Hughes, the team does not have a system in place to gain the O-Zone in possession. Green's basic system is dump and chase... the players will try to gain the zone in possession, but they have not been coached in the systems and structures which will allow them to do that consistently. What we see is: - Dump in at the Red line - Defenseman shoots the puck at a forward standing at the opposing blueline and he deflects it in - One player tries to carry the puck in without support - Two or three players line abreast try to move in together.... if they get across the blue line the puck is usually dumped to the wing, followed by a shot on net with the hope for a rebound. - Single winger enters and button hooks, but almost never has support What you don't see: - Canuck players criss cross prior to the blue line to confuse the defense. - Timed drop pass to a follow up forward or D after the initial player crosses the blue line. - Timed button hooks to the follow up player moving at speed through the center of the ice. - Spacing of entries to allow the followup on the wing to receive a drop pass from the initial winger entry... followed by a cut to the middle of the ice. In most cases it comes down to positioning and lack of support.... which are the basics.... they should be on any Coaches playbook. Green says he wants to simplify the Canuck's game... but he has simplified it to the point it is completely predictable. The excessive amount of chase and dumps - and the fact that the coach has been seemingly fine about it - is kind of alarming. Peter DeBoer should be an interesting hire tbh. We need better assistants though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrockBoester Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 15 minutes ago, Dazzle said: The excessive amount of chase and dumps - and the fact that the coach has been seemingly fine about it - is kind of alarming. Peter DeBoer should be an interesting hire tbh. We need better assistants though. Nah bruh we gonna reel Willie D back in and this time he's gonna be REAL GOOD 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Colt 45s Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Speed has always killed in this league, until the Sedins came. It is miscasting the team. I understand that the coach wants to tidy things up and have more control over things, especially since that Pittsburgh loss. This team can do more, in the right role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noble 6 Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Look at how much those top 5 teams are spending on their bottom 6 compared to us. We're capped out and not in the same league as those teams right now. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
24K PureCool Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Horvat is a Boss said: Look at how much those top 5 teams are spending on their bottom 6 compared to us. We're capped out and not in the same league as those teams right now. The cap is the least of our problems. Not ideal to have dead cap space in Louie and gang but the good thing is most of those large bottom six contract is set to expire in a year or two. Our need to overpay for bottom six players during UFA will also go down as our prospects comes up who will need to roaster spot. Part of the problem was the drafting in the Gillis years leaving us with no legit prospects and therefore a need to overpay to get players to fill out the bottom six. Even with the additional cap space, what are we gonna spend it on? We don't have the luxury in assets to trade for a Hall nor would Panarin come to Vancouver in UFA. It is not like you are spending money on player's salary. (Probably the only use is to weaponize the cap space but I doubt Aqua is going to approve that). 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_Cathode Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 The definition of insanity is when you endlessly repeat doing that which did not work. The moment we recover the puck in our zone, all three forwards bolt up the ice to the other blue line and the defence has nowhere safe to move the puck, only to stationary players a hundred and fifty feet away, capable of nothing but tipping the puck in - if they are lucky enough to tip it at all. I am so sick of watching our forwards stationary at the opposing blue line, or so far away from the D that we are not a unit, just two disparate groups not supporting each other. Apparently, we improved our power play tonight by having Boeser and Pettersson switch sides so that our two best shooters had no angle to shoot from. Our problem on the PP has to do with zone entry and that the unit stands around. We do not rotate the unit to open lanes, pull players out of position and make the defence skate to exhaust them. We also really miss having a healthy number one defenceman. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNewGM Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 nice break down. comparing to washington running away with the president trophy is maybe not fair. However. this team has major problems. And dump and chase is boring lame hockey. It makes our team look bad and no skill.. Sort of like our powerplay with the pass back almost all the time to enter zone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WHL rocks Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Barry Trotz uses dump and chase with NYI.. he likely leads the league in dump and chase percentage.. He also leads the league in succesfull controlled zone entries. When his player doesn't dump it in he's the best in league at successfully gaining the zone. Dump and chase is used by defensive minded coaches to mitigate the risk of turnovers and odd man rushes against.. Pretty much if player can't carry it in throw it to an open space and go in with speed. The problem is it's not one size fits all. It doesn't work with every team.. Trotz uses it and his team is best in NHL for goals against. Meaning he's using the system to perfection.. Green uses it and Canucks are 10th WORST in the NHL in goals against. Meaning the system isn't working for us.. It's not one size fits all and Green doesn't seem to grasp the full system. How to defend after dumping it in. How to forecheck theb dump in. So many variables.. Time for a coaching change. Bring in DeBoer. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canuktravella Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 2 hours ago, WHL rocks said: Barry Trotz uses dump and chase with NYI.. he likely leads the league in dump and chase percentage.. He also leads the league in succesfull controlled zone entries. When his player doesn't dump it in he's the best in league at successfully gaining the zone. Dump and chase is used by defensive minded coaches to mitigate the risk of turnovers and odd man rushes against.. Pretty much if player can't carry it in throw it to an open space and go in with speed. The problem is it's not one size fits all. It doesn't work with every team.. Trotz uses it and his team is best in NHL for goals against. Meaning he's using the system to perfection.. Green uses it and Canucks are 10th WORST in the NHL in goals against. Meaning the system isn't working for us.. It's not one size fits all and Green doesn't seem to grasp the full system. How to defend after dumping it in. How to forecheck theb dump in. So many variables.. Time for a coaching change. Bring in DeBoer. fire the assistants as well they are garbage 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMexico Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 Arm chair coaches unite! All teams struggle from time to time. Canucks are no different. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 (edited) There are some well thought out observations here and I concur with them. This may attribute to the way the team is playing as well as I don't see them "tired" but maybe a little "frustrated" at their lack of success from the system they are playing. Predictability is pretty obvious as the opposition seems a step ahead of us every time. I think we have the right personnel its just a matter of aligning them up for them to succeed. Its becoming far more obvious that this team is ready for a change and ready for a real "established" NHL coach to take them to the next step. Edited December 18, 2019 by EdgarM 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickly Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, RonMexico said: Arm chair coaches unite! All teams struggle from time to time. Canucks are no different. 5 years of struggling takes its toll. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RonMexico Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 1 minute ago, Pickly said: 5 years of struggling takes its toll. 5 years? I've been a fan since the early 80s. Going on 35+ years of disappointment. A few weeks of struggling is par for the course with this team. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayne Glensky Posted December 18, 2019 Share Posted December 18, 2019 2 hours ago, RonMexico said: 5 years? I've been a fan since the early 80s. Going on 35+ years of disappointment. A few weeks of struggling is par for the course with this team. Yet fans are okay with mediocre hockey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_Cathode Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 I look at the Canuck problem in terms of unproductive assets. Eriksson 6 mil Luongo 3 mil Baertschi 2.3 mil Ferland 3.5 mil Edler 6.0 mil That is a quarter of our cap space. I attribute much of the above to ownership pushing management for immediate results. This does not even account for draft picks surrendered to provide the illusion of a temporary fix. Hardly any of those surrendered picks gained us anything even in the short term (the great exception being Miller). The reason it is an issue is that management has shown just how much useful talent they can pick up with the picks that we have had - add some useful amateur free agent signings of prospects to that pool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coastal.view Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 3 minutes ago, Ray_Cathode said: I look at the Canuck problem in terms of unproductive assets. Eriksson 6 mil Luongo 3 mil Baertschi 2.3 mil Ferland 3.5 mil Edler 6.0 mil That is a quarter of our cap space. I attribute much of the above to ownership pushing management for immediate results. This does not even account for draft picks surrendered to provide the illusion of a temporary fix. Hardly any of those surrendered picks gained us anything even in the short term (the great exception being Miller). The reason it is an issue is that management has shown just how much useful talent they can pick up with the picks that we have had - add some useful amateur free agent signings of prospects to that pool. so you say jb/green are responsible to accurately forecast player injuries or are you just pointing out the unproductive asset issues but have no solutions i see loui as an ownership decision loungo has nothing to do with present management the rest are injury fall out issues so yeah i mostly blame the hockey gods 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray_Cathode Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 7 minutes ago, coastal.view said: so you say jb/green are responsible to accurately forecast player injuries or are you just pointing out the unproductive asset issues but have no solutions i see loui as an ownership decision loungo has nothing to do with present management the rest are injury fall out issues so yeah i mostly blame the hockey gods Where did I say the management and coaches are responsible for injuries? But now that you bring it up, giving contracts to guys with a history of injury - is pretty much like ignoring reality and going with, “Well geez, they used to healthy once...”. Giving contracts to guys with an extensive history of concussion is also a crapshoot with overwhelming risk - Baertschi, Ferland - and with that in mind, keep an eye on Demko. A guys injury history with concussion especially is a pretty good indicator of his injury future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptCanuck16 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 13 hours ago, RonMexico said: Arm chair coaches unite! All teams struggle from time to time. Canucks are no different. Every hockey commentator identifies the same weaknesses in our system within 20 minutes of watching them play yet Green seems oblivious. Hell, my 90 year old grandma can see the problem and she's only got one good eye! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DefCon1 Posted December 19, 2019 Share Posted December 19, 2019 17 hours ago, RonMexico said: Arm chair coaches unite! All teams struggle from time to time. Canucks are no different. All teams struggle, true. Do all teams also deploy the same players on the ice for the last 3 minutes of the game and give up empty net goals the second the goalie goes to the bench? or how about standing still during PK? How about always being unprepared for the 1st period of the game? Only teams that have this problem would be bottom feeding last place teams. Unless you are ok with this team being last place, this coaching is not ok. Anyone can see that, even people who dont watch much hockey can see it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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