(Proposals)(Discussions) Should we let Benning go?

[McBackup]

6 hours ago, morrissex95 said:

I'm pretty sure Lucic, Marchand and Kessel were all Benning picks but I could be wrong. 

 

Al Murray is probably the best scout in the NHL though. Brackett's been pretty damn good but Al is on a whole other level. Don't get what's stupid about my reasoning all. 

Try reading my post again then.

[Westcoasting]

13 hours ago, morrissex95 said:

I'm pretty sure Lucic, Marchand and Kessel were all Benning picks but I could be wrong. 

 

Al Murray is probably the best scout in the NHL though. Brackett's been pretty damn good but Al is on a whole other level. Don't get what's stupid about my reasoning all. 

Yeah Benning started off as Director of player personnel and then the next year (2007) he took over asst. GM after they canned Gordon. So Benning started with 2008 draft depending how much room they let him make decisions. Weisbrod was scouting for them at that time as well.

[morrissex95]

8 hours ago, mikeyman109 said:

 

Having read through this thread it's obvious you haven't lived through the lean years much here in Vancouver. Having watched the Canucks since Oct 1970 we have had our share of poor GMs, poor coaches,  players who mailed it in, untimely deaths, bad injuries. We often over value our players as fans. We often are overly critical of management coaches, players and the beer guy in the concession stand.

 

What Benning has acquired in talent is a nice balance of drafted players and veterans who are not anchors because their salaries fall off the cap as we need to sign Petterson, Hughes et al. Miller and Beagle are nos 2 and 5 in face-off %

What Benning has put together is a team that is 2 points out of first place in the division at the half way mark. If i had told you that at the beginning of the season you would have taken it.

What  Benning has done is instill some hope for the future with what more than likely is the best talent group we have ever had and most of them under 24.

 

What Green has done is get the most out of some of the younger players. Challenging Virtanen to get better at his craft or not play. Better than in some years where we had no choice but to play the draft picks because we had no talent.

What Green has done is find a way to get the players to play for each other.

What Green has done is get this team to the point where if Vegas does not win today and their next game and we beat Chicago HE IS the ALL Star Game coach.

 

I have no issue with people critiquing the management or coaching but at least compare the reality with what you are complaining about. This team finished with the worst record the last four years combined. It took a few years to draft and sign some talent to get them back to respectability. You don't go from last to first very often. St Louis did it last season but they were underachieving badly. the Canucks are on a upward trajectory and people want Benning and Green fired.

They are being led by players drafted by the Canucks for a change, Petterson, Hughes, Horvat , Boeser , Virtanen, Demko, Gaudette,....all Canucks draft picks.Never before have we assembled this many draft picks of our own taking and had success. Believe me I have seen every season.

They have players in the AHL that could fit nicely on other teams roster. They dont have to play Goldobin and his lazy ass back check because they have better options.

They have exciting Draft picks that are going to be available to compete for jobs next season and the season after that. Woo, Madden, Podkolzin, Hoglander, Rathbone. When is the last time you could say that. Or would you prefer we go back to Hodgson and Jensen?

After 40 games this year this team has 6 more wins than losses. and 46 points.

If you dont like the Ferland signing thats ok. if he stays injured we get cap relief....no loss there.

If you dont like the Myers signing he is still better than Pouliot, Del Zero, and Hutton

If you dont like the Eriksson signing , yes he is overpaid, but he is a serviceable player unlike Lucic.

The goals for are up. The Power play is 4th in the league, the PK is 16th.

Its super easy to look backwards and throw rocks. I think both Benning and Green are doing a good job. Are there things id like to see them do better yes but for the most part i like the direction the team is going.

 

I'm a young guy I started watching the team in the late 90s with my Dad. It's true that I haven't been around for the lean years. Never said I didn't like the Ferland sighting. Sure, he hasn't worked out but he could bounce back. Plus he's miles better than Loui. Myers has been a successful signing so far as well. Not a bad offseason the worst mode Jimbo has made was the Eriksson signing and the Sutter trade/signing 

 

 

[morrissex95]

8 hours ago, Bitter Melon said:

Try reading my post again then.

You just need to chill buddy it's just hockey

[McBackup]

1 hour ago, morrissex95 said:

You just need to chill buddy it's just hockey

We're not buddies, and there is no need to project your frustration onto me.

[morrissex95]

12 minutes ago, Bitter Melon said:

We're not buddies, and there is no need to project your frustration onto me.

Alright man whatever just trying to be civil

 

Why don't you go &^@# yourself hoser? 

[McBackup]

2 minutes ago, morrissex95 said:

Alright man whatever just trying to be civil

 

Why don't you go &^@# yourself hoser? 

Losing your temper over a disagreement is not trying to be civil.

[morrissex95]

1 minute ago, Bitter Melon said:

Losing your temper over a disagreement is not trying to be civil.

Giving me attitude for no reason makes you a hoser 

[McBackup]

Just now, morrissex95 said:

Giving me attitude for no reason makes you a hoser 

I gave you a very simply laid-out argument for why I think your reasoning is flawed. You responded by saying Al Murray is a good scout, which has nothing to do with what I said. You then lost your temper and after passive-aggressiveness didn't work upgraded to aggressive-aggressiveness by calling me "hoser" which is one of the worst insults ever. Not in terms of how bad it hurts my feelings, but in terms of how unbelievably cringe-inducing it is. Canadians don't actually call each other "hosers", thats the kind of insult an American whose only exposure to Canada is Tim Hortons' ads would make. Its almost like a fake insult. You aren't trying to be civil, you're insinuating I'm somehow the upset one despite the fact that you're the one directly insulting me. Nobody calls a stranger "buddy" in a civil manner.  So you've given me just as much "attitude" as I've given you.

[morrissex95]

40 minutes ago, Bitter Melon said:

I gave you a very simply laid-out argument for why I think your reasoning is flawed. You responded by saying Al Murray is a good scout, which has nothing to do with what I said. You then lost your temper and after passive-aggressiveness didn't work upgraded to aggressive-aggressiveness by calling me "hoser" which is one of the worst insults ever. Not in terms of how bad it hurts my feelings, but in terms of how unbelievably cringe-inducing it is. Canadians don't actually call each other "hosers", thats the kind of insult an American whose only exposure to Canada is Tim Hortons' ads would make. Its almost like a fake insult. You aren't trying to be civil, you're insinuating I'm somehow the upset one despite the fact that you're the one directly insulting me. Nobody calls a stranger "buddy" in a civil manner.  So you've given me just as much "attitude" as I've given you.

Alright at this point you're behaving like a petulant child. Have fun with that. 

 

I'm just as Canadian as you are 

[McBackup]

2 minutes ago, morrissex95 said:

Alright at this point you're behaving like a petulant child. Have fun with that. 

 

I'm just as Canadian as you are 

Again, if you're not going to even read the post why bother responding to it?

[morrissex95]

6 minutes ago, Bitter Melon said:

Again, if you're not going to even read the post why bother responding to it?

I'm not doing this with you.

 

Why don't you go outside and enjoy the new year chap? 

 

Or you can just go &^@# yourself I don't really care

[McBackup]

6 minutes ago, morrissex95 said:

I'm not doing this with you.

 

Why don't you go outside and enjoy the new year chap? 

 

Or you can just go &^@# yourself I don't really care

Rude.

[ItTakesAnArmy]

On 12/30/2019 at 3:02 AM, morrissex95 said:

When Benning was AGM in Boston he drafted:

Lucic

Marchand

Seguin(a home-run but still)

Hamilton 

Kessel

Spooner

Grzelyck 

 

He did pretty well when was Director of Amateur Scouting in Boston. If we were only talking about the first round I'm sure I'd do alright BUT these Lucic, Marchand and Spooner picks are gems that are really difficult to come by. It takes a true pro to find a gem in the rough in a guy like Brad Marchand who is one of the best players in the NHL. 

 

If we were to go in a different direction for GM if we miss the playoffs this year and JB gets fired there are a lot of guys I'd be interested in. Al Murray in Tampa is probably one of the best scouts in the NHL. He unearthed Kucherov, Point, Killorn, Paquette, Gourde, Palat, Vasilievski, Raddysh, Katchouk, Cirelli and even more guys that I don't know about. If he were available and I'm Francesco Aquillini I'm willing to pay top dollar to get a guy like Murray. With a good capologist, a good contract negotiator, etc. surrounding a guy like Murray with a good management group and lots of draft picks we could probably be a top team in a 5-6 years. 

No he didn't draft, Charrelli did, watch the behind the scenes stuff from Boston, Benning sat there all quiet and listened to the head scout and Charrelli.

Benning - Boston scouting - 1999 draft to 2003 draft as director of scouting only, he didn't "find" any of the mentioned.

 

Funny about the capologist, the league hired the guy Benning fired to interpret the cap for them, seems we already had the best guy.

[ItTakesAnArmy]

16 hours ago, mikeyman109 said:

Having read through this thread it's obvious you haven't lived through the lean years much here in Vancouver. Having watched the Canucks since Oct 1970 we have had our share of poor GMs, poor coaches,  players who mailed it in, untimely deaths, bad injuries. We often over value our players as fans. We often are overly critical of management coaches, players and the beer guy in the concession stand.

 

What Benning has acquired in talent is a nice balance of drafted players and veterans who are not anchors because their salaries fall off the cap as we need to sign Petterson, Hughes et al. Miller and Beagle are nos 2 and 5 in face-off %

What Benning has put together is a team that is 2 points out of first place in the division at the half way mark. If i had told you that at the beginning of the season you would have taken it.

What  Benning has done is instill some hope for the future with what more than likely is the best talent group we have ever had and most of them under 24.

 

Benning's outstanding drafting?

When has he gone "out of the box" drafting and succeeded?

Sure Boeser, Pettersson and Hughes are good, but what was the cost? Being the worst team in the league on average over 5 years?

Boeser was pure luck, the scouting agencies and GM's mostly all missed on him, but he was ranked #25, just about where he went.

Pettersson and Hughes were BPA, a monkey could have selected them.

His "out of the box" selections, Jake Virtanen, should have been around his peers at that spot, lot's of "they should have taken ???" considering how many drafted after have far surpassed, he is a good middle guy and NOT playing as a power forward.

Out of the box #2, Juolievi, a total bust 4 years later he still hasn't played one NHL game and is described as slow in the AHL.

 

Again the comparisons with the team itself, four years losing 50 games a year, and any improvement justifies all those top draft picks and getting close to being better than 7 other teams?

Great contracts falling off but in the meantime taking up a roster spot and eating up younger players hockey careers.

 

This HORRIBLE owner the team has is allowing and has allowed somewhere around 100 million in mistakes by Benning not counting devaluation, honestly I don't know why unless Benning is to be the whipping boy after another two top ten drafts and taking the blame as being a GM that wasted most of Horvat's career and trading away the team's first overall pick.

 

Bennng instilling hope by driving the team into the cellar so every incremental movement up is now seen as a major improvement, the fans are now so disenfranchised the idea of making the playoffs is almost parade worthy. He has them concentrating on NOW and not the cost of NOW or what can happen in the next two years.

 

What Benning has done is sold a single game, that is all, one game, not a season. While the season is made of single games marketing it this way means forgetting past seasons and all past mistakes, making a playoff appearance something of glory. It treats fans like simpletons, cheer a player, the team is not here to win a championship, it is here for you to pay to look at. They have done a great job, the four worst years in franchise history and some fans think there has been a good job done.Simpetons

 

Funny, Gillis, the guy a lot of posters blame for Benning's blatant errors, his first press conference was he stated the goal of the team was to win the Stanley cup, a team that had failed to make the playoffs that year, in half the time Benning has been here the team was at that level, in no cap trouble, over 8 mil available (5 mil was a lot) every year, a "destination" for free agents who took a pay cut to come and his only two top ten picks both were home runs, Coho's congenital back problem curtailed a good career and of course the current leader of the team, the roster was set and no draft picks could crack it and AV didn't play rookies.

Edited January 1, 2020 by ItTakesAnArmy

[Alflives]

@ItTakesAnArmy

Drink alcohol 

[Westcoasting]

2 hours ago, ItTakesAnArmy said:

No he didn't draft, Charrelli did, watch the behind the scenes stuff from Boston, Benning sat there all quiet and listened to the head scout and Charrelli.

Benning - Boston scouting - 1999 draft to 2003 draft as director of scouting only, he didn't "find" any of the mentioned.

 

Funny about the capologist, the league hired the guy Benning fired to interpret the cap for them, seems we already had the best guy.

Benning was never a scout with Boston, he was hired in 2006 as Head of Player Personel, the next year he was promoted to Asst. Gm.  After Benning fired Gilman, he was hired to help with the process of Expansion draft he was not "interpreting" the cap for them. Judging from the gong show in Toronto i'm not sure Gilman is the legend that everyone made him out to be when he was here!