[PGT] Vegas Golden Knights at Vancouver Canucks | Dec. 19, 2019

[JM_]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

Greens job isn't remotely in danger, imo.  This is exactly what anyone with an ounce of understanding thought the season would be.  A young, streaky team with high highs and low lows and not a lot in the middle.

of course his job is in danger, all coaches are. Green was making some odd and unnecessary line moves, in many peoples view not just mine. If you don't think Green missing the playoffs this year puts his job in danger maybe you haven't been paying attention to the firings this year. 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Trade Jake before his streaky play ends. 

 

Not because he sucks, but he’s a currency needed to execute trades with and because I don’t think he’s all that far from his ceiling, which is that of a fast, big body who has a ridiculously low hockey IQ for a 6 0A pick, but that’s a personal opinion. 

 

Love the BC boys more than I should, but I’m not emotionally attached to the “Just you wait - just another few years” story and the waiting for Jake to be something more than a depth player with upside, meanwhile. 

 

What does he do well that we cant replace? 

Skate? Lol

Give dirty looks? 

Streak out a points run? 

Hit occasionally, but no real feistiness or willingness to initiate and rough it up? 

 

 

Package Jake with anyone of the other obvious trade chips and go after something great. 

 

If he is all the the things I fully expect to be flamed for on here now, he should fetch a hefty return all by himself. 

 

I’ve played the If and buts game on here for over 20 years now. 

 

I’ve been victimized by my own optimism for our kids since JJ Daigneault and Nedved as well guys, but I think I know what Jake is, and isn’t, by this point in his career and thus have no problem moving on if a trade is there that helps win down the road. 

 

Jake for Pool Party?  Too risky?  

[stawns]

Just now, Jimmy McGill said:

of course his job is in danger, all coaches are. Green was making some odd and unnecessary line moves, in many peoples view not just mine. If you don't think Green missing the playoffs this year puts his job in danger maybe you haven't been paying attention to the firings this year. 

Luckily JB is smarter than that.

[bishopshodan]

4 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

Trade Jake before his streaky play ends. 

 

Not because he sucks, but he’s a currency needed to execute trades with and because I don’t think he’s all that far from his ceiling, which is that of a fast, big body who has a ridiculously low hockey IQ for a 6 0A pick, but that’s a personal opinion. 

 

Love the BC boys more than I should, but I’m not emotionally attached to the “Just you wait - just another few years” story and the waiting for Jake to be something more than a depth player with upside, meanwhile. 

 

What does he do well that we cant replace? 

Skate? Lol

Give dirty looks? 

Streak out a points run? 

Hit occasionally, but no real feistiness or willingness to initiate and rough it up? 

 

 

Package Jake with anyone of the other obvious trade chips and go after something great. 

 

If he is all the the things I fully expect to be flamed for on here now, he should fetch a hefty return all by himself. 

 

I’ve played the If and buts game on here for over 20 years now. 

 

I’ve been victimized by my own optimism for our kids since JJ Daigneault and Nedved as well guys, but I think I know what Jake is, and isn’t, by this point in his career and thus have no problem moving on if a trade is there that helps win down the road. 

 

What do you think we could get for him?

 

Do you think other teams value him high?

 

I want grit and even though Jake doesn't have lot , he still has some and is young and fast. Maybe I just never had to high of hopes on him. 

Edited December 20, 2019 by bishopshodan

[Boudrias]

12 hours ago, VancouverHabitant said:

100%  

Motte's worth a 2nd round pick in my eyes.  He just continually wins puck battles and shows incredible hustle.  

He was the only Canuck besides Fantenberg that wasn't afraid to throw hits on Ryan Reaves.  Reaves threw a big open ice hit that Motte half-evaded today, would've liked to see a replay of it but unfortunately today's telecasts just don't replay big hits anymore.  

Mott was a standout IMHO. 3rd game back and just look how his game is improving. Getting stronger and speed is picking up. Absolutely no fear. Love the kid.

[JM_]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

Luckily JB is smarter than that.

 yeah ok. Someone peed in your cereal this am i guess. 

[JM_]

1 minute ago, bishopshodan said:

what do you think we could get for him?

 

Do you think other teams value him high?

 

I want grit and evan though Jake doesn't have lot , he still has some and is young and fast. Maybe I just never had to high of hopes on him. 

there were rumours JB offered Jake and our 2020 1st for Barrie, and Colorado said no. 

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, stawns said:

Luckily JB is smarter than that.

Canucks miss the playoffs this year, and both JB and Green are gone.  

[Alflives]

Just now, Jimmy McGill said:

there were rumours JB offered Jake and our 2020 1st for Barrie, and Colorado said no. 

Thank God Sakic said no.  That’s a bloody ugly trade for us. 

[JM_]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Canucks miss the playoffs this year, and both JB and Green are gone.  

I think thats likely. Green is OK, I don't see that there's anything particularly special about him as a head coach, and you can certainly criticize the defensive system results this year. If there was a more experienced coach out there I don't see the harm in making a change if it meant salvaging the goal of making the playoffs. 

[Googlie]

45 minutes ago, peaches5 said:

When's the last time Virtanen sent someone flying with a riveting body check? Ferland in one of his first shifts back destroyed Kerfoot. Last night with Reaves Virtanen was scared out of his mind and Reaves was just toying with him. Look at Beagle in scrums he gets in everyone's face.Then you see a scrum with Virtanen and he is trying to get back to bench as quickly as possible. He does absolutely nothing. You think he has skill? Anytime there are players that converge onto Virtanen and he tries to get around them he loses the puck on the most pathetic attempt to skilfully maneuver around them What skill does Virtanen possess? 

 

He is carefully deployed because he makes boneheaded decisions out there either risky passes in his own end or just losing the puck trying to do something he is not skilled enough to do. JT Miller does similar things but he is at least skilled enough to pull them off the majority of the time. 

 

None of this is based on hypothesis. It's based on his play which is factual evidence supporting everything. 

I guess Center Ice in California gets a different feed than up north.

 

Stats thru last night ... Jake:

Leads the team in hits with 55 (in hits/60 mins, trails Motte, Ferland, MacEwen and Roussel)

Leads the team in takeaways per 60 mins of ice time at 2.71

Among forwards, has fewer giveaways than Miller, Boeser, Pearson, Horvat. Petterson and Leivo (and, yes, he is on the ice less. In giveaways per 60 mins of ice time Roussel, MacEwen, Graovac. Miller and Pearson have had more)

These stats don't lie - I think you should change channels to get Center Ice

[bree2]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Canucks miss the playoffs this year, and both JB and Green are gone.  

I doubt it, especially not JB

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Thank God Sakic said no.  That’s a bloody ugly trade for us. 

hard to know if its true, but that was the blab. I'm OK with the idea of getting Barrie in free agency if the bills not to high tho. 

[nuck-lifer]

I'm sure Green has had all of these Virtanen thoughts above, and thus controls his minutes knowing he's still developing and has said over and over he is moving in the right direction this year.

He was pretty frustrated with him last year calling him out, and as well this training camp.

Since then, and especially last 10 games it feels like the switch was turned on, and he's understanding his game better. His passing is the biggest improvement i've seen, along with his consistency.

Not quite top 6 but after resigning myself to thinking of him as having a ceiling of a third liner with some offensive upside,  he's showing more patience with the puck to fit in to the top 6.

he stills makes some slashing and chippy boneheaded plays, including last night where he could have called a couple times,  but improving there as Green gives him the tough love he needs.

 

he's like an tweener power forward right now still learning his craft

 

 

[theo5789]

7 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

there were rumours JB offered Jake and our 2020 1st for Barrie, and Colorado said no. 

I imagine there was more to the deal than that. Barrie would've been a 1 year rental at that point, so there's no way we were offering that much for him. I can only assume the 1st was conditional to him re-signing with us or perhaps there was more in return from the Avs.

[J.I.A.H.N]

1 hour ago, peaches5 said:

 

I have watched every game this year and one thing is evident Virtanen is not a power forward.

Not in the truest form, but I think that is the closet way to describe him. I think if Virtanen was more aggressive in his style, he would be, but I don't think that is him

 

He doesn't use his speed. He doesn't use his size. 

Sure he does, he is one of the fastest guys in the NHL, he skates by Dmen with the puck all the time, and beats them low. He leans on Dmen

 

He is definitely not a physical presence. He is scared of scrums.

NO, he gets in there, but he is not a fighter for sure. But he is pushing back more and more. 

 

There is not a single person who is afraid of Virtanen.

I agree, but so what?

 

He also poses absolutely no skill.

This is where I am really going to call you. The last time I checked NHL.Com stats. Jake was either low top 30, high top 60, or at the top of the top 90, in just about all offensive stats for all RWers playing over 12 games. IMO, Jake has reached the mid top 60 as an average for Rwers, and that is in low minutes. I don't think you do that without having skill. Decent skill. I do agree that Jake doesn't fit into traditional type of NHL player, but he is putting together a decent year so far.

 

Like I've said before there is a reason why Virtanen has the teams lowest ATOI.

I scream like hell that Virtanen isn't played more, however, it may be that Green feels that Jake plays his best hockey with about those many minutes. I do not think that is a crime, and I have noticed, Jakes deployment being upped in different circumstances. IMO, Jake is improving game to game. I won't argue with you about whether he is elite or not, because every knows he is not. But if he can continue to play at this level and continue to improve, he will be a important player going forward. I think you are hard on him. IMO the numbers look good, for who he is, and if he can continue and not regress, he will move up the list on a redraft. For dollars spent, Jake is a good player.

 

He is so amazing according to you guys here yet he gets no ice time? Hmm, I wonder why.

See above. Green is giving Jake the best chance to succeed, I don't see what is wrong with that. If I remember, he is at about 12 minutes a game? (I can't get onto NHL.com to check) But, Take a look at Jakes stats when compared to the other RWers in the league. I think it will surprise you

 

I don't think Jake fits into any box neatly, but I am glad we have him. Again, he is improving, and helping the team. I think it is a bottom line thing when judging Jake.

 

I also would like to see Jake hit more, with speed......I think you might see that, as he ages......I think it is in him. IMO, Jake is a young soul

 

 

Hey, Merry Christmas!

[189lb enforcers?]

11 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

What do you think we could get for him?

 

Do you think other teams value him high?

 

I want grit and even though Jake doesn't have lot , he still has some and is young and fast. Maybe I just never had to high of hopes on him. 

St Louis, Tampa, Rags, Buffalo...

 

I think you summarized our collective thoughts on our thoughts on his value or role here. 

 

Of all posters here, I hope it’s understandable how adverse I am to letting go of any resemblance of size and grit. This is no small thing to me to get my head around. 

 

What could we get for Jake, while he is currently playing at his peak value? 

More than we will next month I bet, haha, sorry Jake. 

Adam Graves? 

Edmundson?

Lowry? 

Anderson? 

Jenner? 

Malkin.

Ballard and a first. 

 

Nobody except the 31 GMs knows for sure.

when I have more time I will try for an appropriate response. 

Deadlines at work...

[Angry Goose]

16 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I think thats likely. Green is OK, I don't see that there's anything particularly special about him as a head coach, and you can certainly criticize the defensive system results this year. If there was a more experienced coach out there I don't see the harm in making a change if it meant salvaging the goal of making the playoffs. 

What is it about Green/Baumer's defensive system that is so bad?  If you ask me it wants players to play to their strengths/make high percentage plays.  It certainly doesn't strike me as a rigid system IMO. 

[Gaudette Celly]

10 hours ago, the grinder said:

what a loser lol  it is just because jake is making him eating his words  ,  why would want to trade a young power forward after investing all that time in him , look how long it Duclair to get it , and he has been traded 3 times .  Any reputable nhl reporter should know it takes any where between 3 -6 years in the nhl for  a player to hit their peak 

Duclair's been on 5 teams now, and the narrative about him was always "skilled but no hockey sense."  But oh, suddenly he knows how to hockey?  People who cite the "no hockey IQ narrative" are often quite vacant in seeing the bigger picture and ability for professional athletes to develop.  Speaking of...

 

7 hours ago, PetterssonOrPeterson said:

Sure. Because every Canucks fan was being “patient” with him these past 5 years.
 

I mean it’s not like most of the fanbase was labelling him a bust as a 6th overall pick for the past few years right?
Lol.

 

I’m happy for Jake but this is just too funny.

I suggest you put on a hazmat suit and venture over to Jake's prospect thread.  Literally over ONE THOUSAND PAGES of complaining, whining, and disparaging of Jake over everything from his weight to his laziness to his "brutal hockey IQ".  It was a cadre of a half-dozen "usual suspects" that regularly mock and disparage the team and it's prospects in particular.

[Gaudette Celly]

42 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

What do you think we could get for him?

 

Do you think other teams value him high?

 

I want grit and even though Jake doesn't have lot , he still has some and is young and fast. Maybe I just never had to high of hopes on him. 

Well, think about if another team had a 6'1 226lb 23-year-old player with speed to burn, physicality, and a rocket of a shot playing only 12-14min per game but on a 20G/40P pace.  There would be PLENTY here demanding that Benning trade for him.