Sunday Morning Confessional at the Church of V

[VforVasili]

47 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

Hahaha ahh yes the bimonthly Jake Virtanen has arrived thread.  We see 6 of these a year.

 

 

 

 

He who believes in Jake is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already.

[Westcoasting]

1 hour ago, VforVirtanen said:

You are absolved of your sins. 

The man was watching Die Hard... he has no sins!!

 

[cuporbust]

Lets wait and see if he can put a full season together shal we ?

[DS4quality]

This is how we jinx our own players..  Look at the "team like that comment" ...  Not saying I don't like jake, I've always liked him.but I'm not going to proclaim a church to a guy who hasn't cracked 20 goals yet. 

That's not a slight on Jake. But if anyone deserves a church aside from the obvious it's Tyler Motte, he's clearly the straw that stirs the 4th line. 

[VforVasili]

The longer you take to come to the light of Jake, the harder the penance shall be. 

[Googlie]

4 hours ago, DS4quality said:

This is how we jinx our own players..  Look at the "team like that comment" ...  Not saying I don't like jake, I've always liked him.but I'm not going to proclaim a church to a guy who hasn't cracked 20 goals yet. 

That's not a slight on Jake. But if anyone deserves a church aside from the obvious it's Tyler Motte, he's clearly the straw that stirs the 4th line. 

Or maybe a " Hail, Caesar" ?

[VforVasili]

Merry Virtmas everyone! 
 

Jake will be ready to rock on Saturday but enjoy your holiday in the interim!

[Petey40]

I love that Jake is figuring his game out. Never once wanted to trade him, always thought he’d become a good player.

 

Now I hope Joulevi can stay healthy and do the same as Jake and shut up all the nay sayers. 

[VforVasili]

3 hours ago, Petey40 said:

I love that Jake is figuring his game out. Never once wanted to trade him, always thought he’d become a good player.

 

Now I hope Joulevi can stay healthy and do the same as Jake and shut up all the nay sayers. 

Agree I want so badly for Juolevi to prove them wrong as well. 

[VforVasili]

Given yet another game winning goal by big tuna, I am wondering if we have any more sinners who might like to confess and be forgiven?

[Kevin Biestra]

3 hours ago, VforVirtanen said:

Given yet another game winning goal by big tuna, I am wondering if we have any more sinners who might like to confess and be forgiven?

 

It is looking like this is the year for the big guy.  Glad to see.

 

Hope he stays the course.  I was never a Jake basher, but I wasn't really a hardcore believer either.  I won't complain if he surpasses my expectations.

[oldnews]

This thread could probably use a bunch of brother threads....

 

B for Beagle.

E for Edler

M for Miller

M for Motte

M for Markstrom

M for Myers

S for Sutter....

 

I'm not sure there's much point re-stating what seems obvious to me at this point, but

 

1)  this team is simply so much better with Beagle in the lineup.  Without him and Sutter, the team was predictably headed back towards lottery results.  With his elite faceoff presence, elite penalty killing, etc, some balance has be restored (and the team isn't quite a tire fire trying to defend leads - as it was when guys like Gaudette were extremely over-exposed in these guys absence.

2)  likewise - the team was on a lottery course without Edler.   Depth may be improved, but when you have a rookie 2LHD who is a pmd, and then Benn/Fantenburg attempting to close the Edler gap, with the additional absences of Sutter and Beagle = that spells treading water/harm reduction.

3) anyone that re-reads the Miller trade thread would see why a comparable thread could be in order.

4) likewise - anyone that reads the Motte trade thread - or pays any attention to how much better the Beagle line is when he has his wing-man and complement Motte alongside him, will see Motte's extreme value relative to how sandbagged/underestimated he was.

5) Markstrom = enough said.

6) Myers is starting to hit some production, but he too has been underestimated imo and brings needed size, mobility, two-way game/versatility to the blueline.

7) Sutter is perhaps the most sandbagged of the remaining veterans.  Listening to the SatShahs and smarmies of pseudo-analytics guys out there, you'd think that Sutter merely represents an overpaid 4th line winger who is a moderate upgrade over Schaller.   This take could not possibly by less-informed imo.  What Sutter affords is a 5 line setup for Green.

Anyone that watched the many meltdowns/inability to protect leads in the absence of Edler, Sutter, Beagle, ought to be able to see the difference these guys make when they are in the lineup.  Gaudette is  an outstanding young talent, with a lot of upside - but what he is not is remotely ready to assume a real 3C role.  The young talent are obviously always the prime fetish material of the young fan base - but let's be real about Gaudette for a minute:

 

Gaudette:

40.7% faceoffs

57.1% ozone starts

44.8% corsi.

8 of his 19 pts are powerplay production.

 

He's a great, talented young offensive-upside forward - but he was getting exposed, and exploited by teams - particularly on the road, where Green - without Sutter and Beagle - was even less able to shelter him.

 

Now - Green once again has the 5 line option, as he did early in the season.  Once Sutter gets his game legs back (and he may have only had a couple skates, but he sure looked good and ready last night against Arizona, complementing Beagle) - once Sutter is back in stride - Green will have the option of once again having two dedicated, high end shut down lines.  He will also have the option of a third, situational scoring line - able to use Gaudette as a center in sheltered minutes, coming in behind EP and Horvat - in highly opportune circumstances.  Petterson's ozone starts can start to climb back up to where Green wants them, Horvat can transition back towards a secondary scoring as opposed to shutdown line, and Green can "platoon" his 3rd line - cycling between Sutter in a shutdown role (perhaps with Gaudette on his wing, or moving up the lineup) - and having Gaudette in opportune '3C' (actually Hodgson-like '3C'=secondary scoring role between enabling two-way wingers).   The lineup is vastly better with a healthy Sutter (and Beagle) in it - and it will only go towards enhancing EP, Horvat, and Gaudette's production/opportunities.  Sutter in the lineup does not inhibit or limit Gaudette - it enables him.   For those folks that invariably attempt to play players like these two off of each other - ie as if dealing Sutter would 'help' Gaudette - I think they entirely whiff on the TEAM reality - the team benefits of their actual depth when they are healthy.

 

It's been a sheer pleasure watching this team this year - even when they struggled in the absence of vital veterans - they managed to tread water and get reasonable enough results in those circumstances - but make no mistake - they are a vastly better team with Sutter, Edler, Beagle, Motte (Roussel, etc) in their lineup.

 

Edited January 17, 2020 by oldnews

[oldnews]

Virtanen has always shown signs of the player he is now emerging as.

 

In particular, with respect to his alleged lack of hockey intelligence:

 

Once again he leads the team in turnover differential.  There is nothing 'easy' about reading, anticipating the play at the NHL for a young player, particularly on the defensive side of the puck/game, where developing a true two-way defensive game is one of the most challenging/difficult and slow-cooking of the aspects of player development.

Those two-way fundamentals lead to better production in the end - and more trust.   Guys like Virtanen, Roussel, etc have done a good job of complementing/enabling Gaudette in the absence of guys like Sutter, Beagle, Motte, Roussel, Ferland, Leivo, etc.   When you look at the forward injuries alone that the team has sustained, the results have been that much more impressive.

 

Virtanen

26 takeaaways this year, +12 turnover differential = best on the Canucks.

Last year  46 takeaways, 22 turnovers = +24

2017/18 = 51 and 32, +19

26/15 +9 combined in his first two seasons / 65 games.

 

149 takeaways, 83 giveaways = +66  through age 19 to 23 at the NHL level.

And now we're seeing what he's capable of now that Green is stepping up the slow forge of Virtanen's overall game.

 

Maybe the fans have some credit in this - as the criticism and doubt escalated - and the rather poor 'google-scouting' discredited itself, perhaps the effect was partially to drive Virtanen more strongly into the faith and trust in Green's development program.   Virtanen has never seemed unhappy with his deployment or opportunities, has never seemed impatient with the ice time and opportunities Green has given him....and now - a player who has averaged 12:36 of ice time through the season (inching up closer to 15 minutes a game at this point) is the team's 5th leading goal scorer, and 2nd leading at even strength, while tied for the team lead in game-winning goals.

 

Good thing this team did not follow in the footsteps of prematurely designating a bust - or giving up on a player (ala Neiderreiter or a host of other late bloomers that teams gave up on...)

 

 

Anyway - many thanks to the OP - despite my disgust for the world's oldest profession - preachers who purport to speak for "God" - I thoroughly enjoyed this thread = hilarious read / would read again (somewhat inspired me out of my CDC hiatus).

[oldnews]

I'd add this to the

 

M for Miller point.

 

Imagine if the Sedins had had a JT MIller to play with for all those seasons before (or after) the Burrows emergence.

 

Well GMJB wasted no time in making sure that Pettersson has the type of winger he needs.

 

And I'd go further = some people laughed in that trade thread at the suggestion of utilziing Miller as a center for Pettersson.....(let alone called him a 'cap dump' and/or a 3rd/4th line center).

 

Well - Pettersson is 45% in the faceoff dot, having taken only 116 draws....and how many times have you seen him take hits down low battling with other teams forecheckers, heavier forwards, etc?

 

Miller is 59.3% with 472 draws....

 

Beagle is 59.2% with 490 draws (in only 39 games, while 68.5% of Beagle's zone starts are defensive, where it's more difficult to win draws....)

 

This horrible trade for a 3rd/4th line 'cap dump', and horrible signing of an overpaid shutdown center - are largely responsble for the incredible production of players like Pettersson - their early success cannot be separated from the 'foundation' and complements/support they receive from their team-mates.  It's a team game, period.

 

 

[oldnews]

On 12/22/2019 at 8:02 AM, debluvscanucks said:

As a mod, I initially thought that I should probably close/move/merge this thing for substance/placement-because players have threads.

 

But then the vision of sugarplums Jake smashing everything in sight last night danced in my head and I came to my senses.  Going to make some cookies now (white chocolate chunk pomegranate...so good).  Bake for Jake.

 

You're the best Deb.

 

Cookies for Canucks goals became a household tradition early in the the Matt Cooke years - and he proceeded to score 14, 13, 15 goals in subsequent seasons - so needless to say, the Cook(i)e recipe became quite honed over those seasons - and the household cookie monster was very happy.

 

Jake looks like he could blow that Cook(i)e production away.

[stawns]

1 hour ago, oldnews said:

Virtanen has always shown signs of the player he is now emerging as.

 

In particular, with respect to his alleged lack of hockey intelligence:

 

Once again he leads the team in turnover differential.  There is nothing 'easy' about reading, anticipating the play at the NHL for a young player, particularly on the defensive side of the puck/game, where developing a true two-way defensive game is one of the most challenging/difficult and slow-cooking of the aspects of player development.

Those two-way fundamentals lead to better production in the end - and more trust.   Guys like Virtanen, Roussel, etc have done a good job of complementing/enabling Gaudette in the absence of guys like Sutter, Beagle, Motte, Roussel, Ferland, Leivo, etc.   When you look at the forward injuries alone that the team has sustained, the results have been that much more impressive.

 

Virtanen

26 takeaaways this year, +12 turnover differential = best on the Canucks.

Last year  46 takeaways, 22 turnovers = +24

2017/18 = 51 and 32, +19

26/15 +9 combined in his first two seasons / 65 games.

 

149 takeaways, 83 giveaways = +66  through age 19 to 23 at the NHL level.

And now we're seeing what he's capable of now that Green is stepping up the slow forge of Virtanen's overall game.

 

Maybe the fans have some credit in this - as the criticism and doubt escalated - and the rather poor 'google-scouting' discredited itself, perhaps the effect was partially to drive Virtanen more strongly into the faith and trust in Green's development program.   Virtanen has never seemed unhappy with his deployment or opportunities, has never seemed impatient with the ice time and opportunities Green has given him....and now - a player who has averaged 12:36 of ice time through the season (inching up closer to 15 minutes a game at this point) is the team's 5th leading goal scorer, and 2nd leading at even strength, while tied for the team lead in game-winning goals.

 

Good thing this team did not follow in the footsteps of prematurely designating a bust - or giving up on a player (ala Neiderreiter or a host of other late bloomers that teams gave up on...)

 

 

Anyway - many thanks to the OP - despite my disgust for the world's oldest profession - preachers who purport to speak for "God" - I thoroughly enjoyed this thread = hilarious read / would read again (somewhat inspired me out of my CDC hiatus).

I've never had a lot of tolerance for the "Jake has low hockey iq" crowd.  You're right that being a takeaway machine is as much about smarts and anticipation as it is about physical skill.  Additionally, he's a very under rated passer and probably one of the best on the team for getting pucks to the point in the ozone.

[Alflives]

42 minutes ago, oldnews said:

You're the best Deb.

 

Cookies for Canucks goals became a household tradition early in the the Matt Cooke years - and he proceeded to score 14, 13, 15 goals in subsequent seasons - so needless to say, the Cook(i)e recipe became quite honed over those seasons - and the household cookie monster was very happy.

 

Jake looks like he could blow that Cook(i)e production away.

Good to have your views back here ON.  I was getting blamed fir running you over with my scooter! 

[CaptKirk888]

@VforVirtanen I confess that I mispronounced his name for the first few weeks after he was drafted.

[VforVasili]

1 hour ago, CaptKirk888 said:

@VforVirtanen I confess that I mispronounced his name for the first few weeks after he was drafted.

You are forgiven my child. 

[VforVasili]

4 hours ago, oldnews said:

Anyway - many thanks to the OP - despite my disgust for the world's oldest profession - preachers who purport to speak for "God" - I thoroughly enjoyed this thread = hilarious read / would read again (somewhat inspired me out of my CDC hiatus).

That made my day to hear! I have always enjoyed your contributions from even before I became a semi-active poster. 
 

Kudos for adding your thoughts. We have a lot to cheer for right now, that’s for sure.