[PGT] Los Angeles Kings at Vancouver Canucks | Dec. 28, 2019

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

It can be a challenge to not get sucked into outright personal attacks on fellow posters who come at your person and not the post on here.

 

We have our share of antagonists doing their thing on here. 

Its fairly obvious who they are.

It’s not as obvious who is full of crap on here, while we can be anything we say we are online, but after a while, you can see things for what they are, IMO.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Totally agree.  IMO the personal attacks come from the bravado crowd.  

[rekker]

1 minute ago, debluvscanucks said:

Guys in Alberta might not be as closely tied to the team as people here?  Are you not part of the "nucks fans"?  

 

He should have said "we shouldn't LOSE like that" then.  He made it about us, not them.  Cocky.  Like he's the standard and we have no business beating them.  Every time we play them, often in huge blowouts.

 

 

Also lost in all this. It was the Bo captaincy night. Doughty eluded to the ceremony as an "ordeal". I dont remember the exact quote. I for one will enjoy Poughty and the Kings walked down to the bottom of the standings over the next few years. 

[-DLC-]

1 hour ago, haton said:

Without that goof Canada would be without a few gold medals right now.

Canada wasn't playing that night...it was Kings versus Canucks.

 

That all goes out the window and he heads home south of the border when he's spouting off with L.A.  Drew's fan club is that way ->   

[theo5789]

13 minutes ago, gurn said:

Iirc the goalie coach decides who plays each game, not Green?

Apparently the only decision coach Green does is tell the team to dump and chase. All credit goes to everyone else until a loss, then every decision is blamed on Green.

[189lb enforcers?]

50 pages of Drew Doughty in GDT - Going on 17 in PGT. 

[Battlemonger]

"Its pretty tough to score when you have a wall in front of you".

 

No doubt. LOL

[rekker]

3 minutes ago, 189lb enforcers? said:

50 pages of Drew Doughty in GDT - Going on 17 in PGT. 

Lol. Yip, the guy brings it on himself and loves every second of it. Really don't care for him. That said, he's one heck of a dman. Love the way he plays and controls the game when he has the puck. He's that player you hate on the other team, would love to have on yours.

[theo5789]

2 hours ago, Silent Man said:

Our defense system works like that:

1.Allow an opposition team a free entry to our zone;

2. Collapse and leave  opposition point men wide open;

3. Pray real hard that bounces go our way and JM makes a save.

 

We need a different system and a new defense coach.

We've had Benning criticized every which way. The PP coach was criticized at the start of the year. Green was most recently criticized. I guess the defense coach is next. After we tightening things up defensively, then who's next? Pat O'Neill better watch out.

[Ghostsof1915]

I think we have to moderate our feelings and just enjoy the ride. 

Not get too panicky in the bad games, and not planning the parade after wins. 

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

15 minutes ago, canuckleheads fan said:

Except these days backups are expected to take on much more of the load and can often be as important as the starter. Look at Toronto, the lack of a quality backup was one of their biggest problems earlier this season, I think I read they were like 0-14 with a backup in goal at one point. I say keep Demko for now, sign Markey to a five year deal, we'll know by the trade deadline if Mikey is the real deal. If the Canucks are buyers at the deadline keep Demko and deal him over the summer for picks, if we're sellers, deal him in a package with LE and maybe Baer for picks/prospects. If we keep them both, one will have to be exposed in the Seattle expansion draft and we lose him for nothing. At this stage their stats are pretty equal, but Markey brings the leadership intangibles and Demko has concussion history.

Markstrom is at 27 GP with a 2.63 GAA and a .919 SV.  Demko is at 12 GP with a 3.00 GAA and .906 SV.  Marky is on pace for another 60 game season for 3 years in a row and a SV around .920.  So he's proving himself to be a legit #1 and by yesterday's performance he is definitely worthy of a contract extension.  Demko on the other hand has had 2 concussions in practice in 2 years, has only played 22 NHL games in his career.  So he has proven nothing at this point.  He hasn't even proven to be a quality backup at this point as he has been injured the last 2 years already.

 

If Marky signs a long term deal then it's a no brainer you trade Demko and try to get as much as you can for him without losing him for nothing next summer.  We can't be relying on a 23 year old goaltender who's had 2 concussions in 2 years to be our reliable backup.  I do agree we need a strong backup to play 25+ games for us but at this point Demko hasn't even proven he can do that.  We can go out and get a veteran to play behind Marky and wait until DiPietro is ready, which could be several more years.  The development of DiPietro is not linked to Demko at all as we can replace Demko with a veteran backup for now.  I'm sure there will be goaltenders available next summer in the free agency period. 

 

Demko is a trade chip at this point.  He is not a reliable backup, he's not a starter, he's simply a young prospect who still needs to prove himself and also prove he can stay healthy for an entire season in the big leagues.

[stawns]

30 minutes ago, canuckleheads fan said:

Except these days backups are expected to take on much more of the load and can often be as important as the starter. Look at Toronto, the lack of a quality backup was one of their biggest problems earlier this season, I think I read they were like 0-14 with a backup in goal at one point. I say keep Demko for now, sign Markey to a five year deal, we'll know by the trade deadline if Mikey is the real deal. If the Canucks are buyers at the deadline keep Demko and deal him over the summer for picks, if we're sellers, deal him in a package with LE and maybe Baer for picks/prospects. If we keep them both, one will have to be exposed in the Seattle expansion draft and we lose him for nothing. At this stage their stats are pretty equal, but Markey brings the leadership intangibles and Demko has concussion history.

agreed, but trade deadline next year

[theo5789]

3 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

All of you guys who think its Green who is coaching the changes in the way the 1st line is entering the zone in possession need to do some more watching.

 

Those plays are being generated by the line itself, and primarily Pettersson.

 

That is what is allowing them to score those even strength goals... not Green's non-existent coaching.

 

Lets take a look at two examples:

 

December 19th win versus Golden Knights.

 

Pettersson scores his 16th to keep the Canucks ahead.  He does it on a set play entering the zone.

 

You can see it here at 2:45 of the highlights:

 

 

Pettersson breaks out on the left wing BEHIND Boeser who is ahead of him on the right wing.  EP40 makes a bounce pass off the boards BEHIND Boeser to keep it away from the opposing D... Boeser takes the pass into the zone IN POSSESSION.  He then goes cross ice back to Pettersson who roofs it past Fleury.

 

Now look at last night's game versus LA:

 

Another breakout from the zone.  This time its Boeser who is carrying the puck, BEHIND Miller who is ahead on the right, with Pettersson ahead on the left.  Boeser makes a bounce pass to Miller off the boards.... same behind the player pass as Pettersson did against Vegas.  Miller goes back across ice to Pettersson who scores.  Play happens at 6:45 of the tape:

 

 

Both of these goals came out of set plays... which were originated by Pettersson... not Green.  How do I know?  Because you haven't seen any other line in the Canucks try this play.  If Green was coaching this, he would have started in the pre-season, but this play has been developed only this month.

 

Next play:

 

Entering the O-zone, with the puck carrier pushing back the D as far as possible and then dropping the puck to a follow up player is a standard NHL play.  Most teams use this play all the time.  Its a standard.  Vancouver uses it rarely under Green's system.

 

The last few games Pettersson has been trying to develop this enter the zone and drop pass for his line.  I can't show you those hilights because the play hasn't worked... no goals because the timing hasn't been right.  Tonight it did work, although the guys on the ice with Pettersson were not Boeser and Miller.  It was a line change and Motte picked up the drop pass instead.  Watch it at 4:17. of the above highlight package.  It was a little lucky, the puck deflected to Motte, but Pettersson intentionally set up the play.

 

Like I said, you don't see the rest of the Canucks lines using this play... even though it is a standard play in the NHL.  That's cause it doesn't fit Green's system, he emphasizes safety not creativity, he doesn't like anything which potentially exposes the team to a counter.  So he pushes for shooting the puck in.

 

The point I am making is that these creative plays are coming out of the players, not Green.  If Green was driving the creative plays, then you'd see Horvat's line trying them as well... but you don't.

 

A good NHL coach provides his lines with a whole series of set plays... the players can choose which one they use depending on the situation.  If they have no other choice, they dump and chase.  Green doesn't do this.... The Canucks are one of the least fluid teams in the NHL when it comes to having a variety of plays they can call on to allow zone entry.

 

The only line on the Canucks who should be using Dump and Chase as their go to plays is Beagle and the 4th line... their role is to waste time in the opposition zone anyway.  Even the third line of the Canucks should not be using Dump and Chase more than 50% of their entries.... they have more skill than that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maybe coach Green gives the players creative freedom and now they have more confidence to do so? The dump and chase is a safe strategy when the plays aren't opening up the way you would like. In case you missed it, JT Miller actually likes the dump and chase model as he's very good at winning those races/battles and encouraged his linemates to do so (there was an article earlier in the year about it, so do you want to blame him too?). We have seen players like EP try entries without the dump and chase during the tough stretch and have them broken up (of course the blame was on Green for frustrating him too). Sometimes plays work, sometimes they don't. These guys aren't robots programmed by Green to execute the same plays over and over. Coaches have strategies in play for safe exits and hopefully controlled plays, but the players certainly have the freedom to make plays if they see the defense broken down or openings to occur. The coaches don't tell them what to do in this instance, but they allow them to take advantage of those opportunities.

 

We've heard at the start of the year to blame Brown for the drop pass and the PP has adapted new plays on top of the drop pass (which also has been effective at times), but yet no credit goes to Brown.

 

Coaches never get any credit, players rarely get blamed (expect the usual suspects for everything even out of their control or even when they have a decent game).

 

I should add that when EP (and others) were getting broken up on plays, perhaps Green and the staff goes through videos with the players on different things to try and talks to other players on how they can create space for the controlled entries. There could be so many things that go on behind the scenes. The players don't seem to be as distraught about the coaching staff as some seem on here, so I imagine the coaching staff isn't as useless as some seem to think.

Edited December 29, 2019 by theo5789

[JeremyCuddles]

10 hours ago, ABNucksfan said:

True story. Media blew it out of proportion. Pissed me off at the time but then i clued in and realized he meant to say “we shouldn't loose like that” it wasn't directed at the canucks. No nhl team should loose like that. But nucks fans always so damn emotional. 

I mean, yeah it sounds bad when you leave out the main part of the quote where he actually did direct his disdain at the team. Insinuating that they shouldn't be losing "to a team like that". But hey your shot at the fanbase loses weight when you actually quote what he said in it's entirety so I don't blame you for leaving it out. Calling the Canucks a "team like that" clearly isn't a shot at the Canucks, we are all emotional and dumb.

[Tystick]

11 hours ago, canuck73_3 said:

AHLers aren't better linemates... 

They're going to play in the Canucks lineup again lol

They're not career AHLers

[MikeyD]

1 hour ago, Baer. said:

51 shots against and a blown lead. Canucks are lucky they even got a point let alone 2

That's the point of the sarcasm. 

[-DLC-]

24 minutes ago, haton said:

If you think booing hurts the opposition we disagree.  Booing as an emotional reaction is fine. If it's being used to try and help your team win it's useless and annoying. Ask Medvedev at the US open. 

It adds to the noise level and energy in the building...it's part of the home ice advantage that very much can be a factor.

 

It wasn't even emotional....it was fun.  We were having fun and that's the name of the game for some of us (who aren't elite level coaches who've been passed over).  Just enjoying the ride...

 

 

[higgyfan]

1 hour ago, Gawdzukes said:

I just howl out loud and cringe internally at a guy(s) like this  . These guys are so pompous, arrogant, delusional, egotistical, and out to lunch. How these guys can pretend to understand coaching, what the coach is coaching, what goes on behind closed doors and in practice, and how the players are adapting to it is borderline sociopath behavior. It's also the equivalent of that friend of yours who will routinely lie right to your face and continually think you believe them. On top of that they spew this garbage on hockey sites to other knowledgeable hockey fans.  That would be like me showing up to a difficult birth and questioning the soon to be mothers Lamaze coach.

Take it easy, man.  It's a hockey fan board.  Really not worth getting that upset about what other posters have to say.  It's the internet.  BS rules the roost.

[canuck73_3]

8 hours ago, *Buzzsaw* said:

Doughty is currently over priced... but he is still elite.

 

No, you don't want him for the Canucks... but some team contending for the Cup might want to gamble at the deadline for his services.

He's locked in for 7 more years with a NMC, he's not a rental. Doubt he gets moved at all, especially not this deadline. 

[-DLC-]

5 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

Take it easy, man.  It's a hockey fan board.  Really not worth getting that upset about what other posters have to say.  It's the internet.  BS rules the roost.

"Fans like that"

[canuck73_3]

12 minutes ago, Tystick said:

They're going to play in the Canucks lineup again lol

They're not career AHLers

Sure they will if NHL regulars get hurt. But even MacEwen has passed Goldobin on the depth charts now and he's working his way passed Baertschi too. 
 

They'll soon enough be traded, Goldobin won’t be extended after this season if he can't be moved.