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Ossi Vaananen

[Proposal] Hoglander to LA

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6 minutes ago, the grinder said:

  You said there is about 21 million dollars in cap space( so we are using your numbers) , but you are not factoring in what Petey and Quinn are going to get paid in their next contracts .  So if Quinn and Petey both sign for 18mil ( 10 for petey ,8 for hughes   roughly) in total that leaves 3 million( of your numbers again) and then you are guessing the cap goes up 5-7 million  , so who is guessing ?    You only did subtractions , you need to add back  to the roster as well , you haven't included other players being resigned ( marky., jake . motte.' gaudette.  fantenberg , stecher , tanev)  that is on cap friendly)  besides  petey and hughes  next contracts   , so perhaps  you should  re think  on how much cap space we really will have 

 

 

I am thinking that you are a little high.....

I am thinking 8.0 for Pettersson and maybe 6.5 for Hughes

Which is still a good amount.

I am reminded of what McKinnon said in Colorado,

which was he would take less to keep the core togther

I think that is starting to become more prevalent (except in Toronto)

But in either case, those 2 are going to take the lions share, for sure! 

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4 minutes ago, the grinder said:

  You said there is about 21 million dollars in cap space( so we are using your numbers) , but you are not factoring in what Petey and Quinn are going to get paid in their next contracts .  So if Quinn and Petey both sign for 18mil ( 10 for petey ,8 for hughes   roughly) in total that leaves 3 million( of your numbers again) and then you are guessing the cap goes up 5-7 million  , so who is guessing ?    You only did subtractions , you need to add back  to the roster as well , you haven't included other players being resigned ( marky., jake . motte.' gaudette.  fantenberg , stecher , tanev)  that is on cap friendly)  besides  petey and hughes  next contracts   , so perhaps  you should  re think  on how much cap space we really will have 

 

 

No I don’t have to rethink anything because I reviewed Cap Friendly and figured it all out myself. I only “guessed” on the increase in cap space because nobody knows what it actually will be as of today. So I used a rough number.  Most people have estimated the cap to go up by at least $5 million, but it could be a lot higher.  I’m sure you can agree the cap will go up with a new tv deal in place, it’s not wishful thinking. 
 

In terms of who the replacements will be we have lots of young prospects who will be on ELC’s.  Hoglander, Podkolzin, Madden, Lind, Brisebiois, Juolevi, Woo, Rathbone, DiPietro. We have lots of young guys that will be challenging for spots in 2021 or will already be on the team. 
 

As for Marky, Jake and Gaudette those guys are up this year not next year. So if

you let Tanev walk and you trade Stecher then you have the cap space

to re-sign those guys. 
 

I played with Cap Friendly for over an hour and put in all the scenarios. I didn’t see a cap issue with the Canucks moving forward. Unless of course Benning tries to go out and sign a bunch of UFA’s which I don’t think is going to happen. I think Benning’s plan is to get his young prospects into the lineup over the next two years. 

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16 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

No I don’t have to rethink anything because I reviewed Cap Friendly and figured it all out myself. I only “guessed” on the increase in cap space because nobody knows what it actually will be as of today. So I used a rough number.  Most people have estimated the cap to go up by at least $5 million, but it could be a lot higher.  I’m sure you can agree the cap will go up with a new tv deal in place, it’s not wishful thinking. 
 

In terms of who the replacements will be we have lots of young prospects who will be on ELC’s.  Hoglander, Podkolzin, Madden, Lind, Brisebiois, Juolevi, Woo, Rathbone, DiPietro. We have lots of young guys that will be challenging for spots in 2021 or will already be on the team. 
 

As for Marky, Jake and Gaudette those guys are up this year not next year. So if

you let Tanev walk and you trade Stecher then you have the cap space

to re-sign those guys. 
 

I played with Cap Friendly for over an hour and put in all the scenarios. I didn’t see a cap issue with the Canucks moving forward. Unless of course Benning tries to go out and sign a bunch of UFA’s which I don’t think is going to happen. I think Benning’s plan is to get his young prospects into the lineup over the next two years. 

 ,  Just like everyone thought the cap was going up this year and it didn't happen  , the cap may only go up 2 million as well ,, yes we will have young players to replace some players  but I cant see plugging in 4 rookies a year on the team  and then throwing 2 of those rookies on d once you let tanev walk and trade stetcher as you put it . ,better hope j.b can bring the tree back  or re sign tanev to a value deal 

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1 hour ago, janisahockeynut said:

I am thinking that you are a little high.....

I am thinking 8.0 for Pettersson and maybe 6.5 for Hughes

Which is still a good amount.

I am reminded of what McKinnon said in Colorado,

which was he would take less to keep the core togther

I think that is starting to become more prevalent (except in Toronto)

But in either case, those 2 are going to take the lions share, for sure! 

well we will see when the contracts are signed  

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I like the concept of the deal. 
 

its pretty much cap dump and top prospect for top 6 fwd. 

 

Only thing is I would want someone better than Toffoli, no offence to him. Also insurance that the player would re-sign. 
 

If it was for another Miller-like player yeah but nobody’s gonna want our cap for just Hog and give us a quality player. 

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Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Cap space isn't an issue with us moving forward.  If people actually spent an hour or so on Cap Friendly you could figure this out on your own.  Lots of ways to move contracts and get dead money off the books over the next 2 years plus Petey and Hughes aren't due until next summer when we have over $20 million coming off the books.  Cap Friendly easily shows this.

 

Coming off the books in the summer of 2021:

 

Spooner - $1,033,333

Baertschi - $3,366,666

Teves - $700,000

Sutter - $4,375,000

Edler - $6,000,000

Benn - $2,000,000

Pearson - $3,750,000

 

That's $21,224,999 in cap space freed up for 2021.  Not to mention the cap will probably be a few million higher after the expansion draft takes place and the new tv deal kicks in.  Ferland may also be off the books as he could retire or at the very least on LTIR.  Also, Eriksson could be bought out for an additional $2 million in savings if he isn't already retired.

 

Like I said cap space will not be an issue moving forward.  Next year I anticipate us bringing in some youth on cheap ELC's like Hoglander, Lind, MacEwen, Brisebois and Rafferty.  

 

 

There are apparently discussions to keep the cap somewhat flat for a few years even after the new TV deal kicks in.  The league has been operating on an artificially increased cap that doesn't accurately reflect the revenue situation.  That's the escrow issue where players have to give up part of their salary to make up for that difference.  Keeping the cap flat for a few years should allow revenue to catch up and limit escrow.

 

LTIR is not ideal with players on ELCs with performance bonuses as teams can't really bank cap space with LTIR. It then often creates bonus overages that count against the following season's cap.

 

For now CapFriendly projects the Canucks to have 30K at the end of the season with LTIR in effect.  Pettersson and Hughes look on their way to hit their schedule A targets of 850K each.  Any excess will be carried over to next season - so around 1.7M if no player gets traded off the roster and Ferland remains on LTIR.

 

Ferland coming off LTIR would allow to bank some cap space and cover part of those bonuses this season rather than push them to next season. As long as he is on LTIR they are not banking cap space.  Ever since he has gone on LTIR the end of season cap projection of $30'474 on CapFriendly hasn't changed even with the different roster movements (DiPietro, Brisebois, MacEwen recalls).

 

Edited by mll
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23 hours ago, Warhippy said:

So offering say a 3rd 4th or 5th to Seattle to take one of Baertschi, Sutter or Ericsson in the expansion draft is a bad idea over dumping Hoglander why?

Because we need these picks for the rebuild....oh wait, what year is it again?

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On 1/2/2020 at 1:48 PM, Ossi Vaananen said:

I know i'm going to get roasted, but please hear me out first. This started as an idea to get Fagemo out of LA and keep the chemistry between him and Hoglander alive. Then it occurred to me, there's no way the Kings are getting rid of him. There's also been some light rumours around the Canucks and Toffoli, so I figure we could make something work around these two central pieces. But what does Vancouver really need? Cap space for keeping our young core. Petey and Hughes will need big raises a year from now, while Gaudette and Virtanen will be RFAs this summer. That's not to mention extending Markstrom and Tanev, both UFAs this summer. So, how about Hoglander and a cap dump for Toffoli?

 

VAN:

Toffoli (UFA 2020)

 

LAK:

Hoglander

2 of Baertschi (3.4m 2021), Sutter (4.3m 2021), Eriksson (6m 2022)

 

For the Sutter lovers, he's a cap dump. I'm sorry, but he's lost his spot to Gaud and I don't want to hear some nonsense of how played the full 82 3 seasons ago. He's done.

 

Why does LA do this?t Hoglander is a surefire prospect and has developed some slick chemistry with Fagemo. This could speed along their rebuild. They have 4.5m in cap space right now, and taking back Toffoli would free up another 4.6m, giving them some space to take on junk. Worth a thought. 

If he's "surefire"; Why are we getting rid of him at all?

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15 minutes ago, komodo0921 said:

If he's "surefire"; Why are we getting rid of him at all?

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21 hours ago, the grinder said:

 ,  Just like everyone thought the cap was going up this year and it didn't happen 

2018/19 cap $79,500,000

2019/20 cap  $81,500,00

 

so, to me, it appears the cap DID go up.

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7 hours ago, komodo0921 said:

If he's "surefire"; Why are we getting rid of him at all?

Because we have no other way of clearing cap space that we don't even need yet, and we want to help the Kings with their rebuild.

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So our solution to a perceived cap crunch is to trade away a young stud on an ELC?  Those expiring contracts will be filled with our prospects.

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2 hours ago, Dats hockey said:

Sutter cap hit doesn’t matter, mans in IR all the time

Players on IR count against the cap - they free a roster spot but the cap hit still counts.  

 

Players on LTIR limit how much cap space can be banked and often creates bonus overages that then count against the following season's cap.  It also limits who can be recalled because potential performance bonuses need to be covered.  For example under LTIR Juolevi's recall cap hit this season could be as high as 2.3M if the team is using LTIR vs 863K otherwise.  

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Sutter and Baertschi are both up before EP and Hughes' ELCs are up. 

 

Shipping Eriksson out of here would be great, but not at the expense of a talented young forward that's going to be on an ELC is probably going to be ready to contribute pretty quickly.

 

I'm still hoping Eriksson retires before his contract is up. 

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I'm pretty much at the point of any other prospect but Hoglander

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On 1/2/2020 at 1:48 PM, Ossi Vaananen said:

I know i'm going to get roasted, but please hear me out first. This started as an idea to get Fagemo out of LA and keep the chemistry between him and Hoglander alive. Then it occurred to me, there's no way the Kings are getting rid of him. There's also been some light rumours around the Canucks and Toffoli, so I figure we could make something work around these two central pieces. But what does Vancouver really need? Cap space for keeping our young core. Petey and Hughes will need big raises a year from now, while Gaudette and Virtanen will be RFAs this summer. That's not to mention extending Markstrom and Tanev, both UFAs this summer. So, how about Hoglander and a cap dump for Toffoli?

 

VAN:

Toffoli (UFA 2020)

 

LAK:

Hoglander

2 of Baertschi (3.4m 2021), Sutter (4.3m 2021), Eriksson (6m 2022)

 

For the Sutter lovers, he's a cap dump. I'm sorry, but he's lost his spot to Gaud and I don't want to hear some nonsense of how played the full 82 3 seasons ago. He's done.

 

Why does LA do this? Hoglander is a surefire prospect and has developed some slick chemistry with Fagemo. This could speed along their rebuild. They have 4.5m in cap space right now, and taking back Toffoli would free up another 4.6m, giving them some space to take on junk. Worth a thought. 

Not a bloody chance. :picard:

 

You should get roasted for this lol.

 

We will need skilled prospects like Hogs to be called up to play on their ELC in the next few years when our cap will be maxed out. 

 

I like your idea, but the prospect that goes to LA cannot be Hogs imo.  However, the idea overall is good I think.

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I keep seeing people commenting on this thread. I’m confused, the answer is no. I can’t believe this was even posted.

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14 minutes ago, #Canucks said:

I keep seeing people commenting on this thread. I’m confused, the answer is no. I can’t believe this was even posted.

It's a discussion thread, there's going to be discussion. Hell, it got people talking about the cap situation, and thinking about the dead cap we inevitably have to deal with. I thought moving Hog with 10m+ in dead cap would be a high compliment to what he's worth.

 

Just move on if u have nothing to post. Comments like yours are far worse than any bad proposal. 

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2 hours ago, Ossi Vaananen said:

It's a discussion thread, there's going to be discussion. Hell, it got people talking about the cap situation, and thinking about the dead cap we inevitably have to deal with. I thought moving Hog with 10m+ in dead cap would be a high compliment to what he's worth.

 

Just move on if u have nothing to post. Comments like yours are far worse than any bad proposal. 

It's a good question to ask whether we should attach a prospect to jettison a pricey vet(s). Same question I had in my Dec 25th proposal.

 

It would have to be HUGEly beneficial however, to consider adding our top-2 guys from last draft. Lind, Woo or maybe a 'tender might be enough.

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