Did Tampa Provide Tactics To Dismantle Nucks Team D Structure

[coastal.view]

so tampa ventilated the nucks team

scored 9 goals

players gave up a bit as the game went on

is this just a blip after a 7 game winning streak?

 

reminds me of a game years ago

when nucks team was doing fairly well

wd was the coach

nyr played the nucks (av was their coach)

and av dismantled the d system nucks were using at the time

afterwards other teams copied his approach

and the nucks never recovered or adjusted effectively

 

the nucks team d system was dismantled by the lightening

is this something only a team of tampa's talent can implement

or does the nuck team have to alter their d system now

after having weaknesses exposed by tampa?

 

we'll know soon enough

let's see how the next 3 to 5 games go

then we'll know how good the current coaches really are

Edited January 9, 2020 by coastal.view

[timberz21]

Are you talking about the November 15, 2016 game when the Canucks lost 7-2 to the Rangers?

 

The Canucks had already started the season 6-10, which included a 9 games losing streak.  Actually the Canucks had beaten the Rangers 5-3 a week prior to that game at MSG, before being thumped at home.

 

Following that loss, the Canucks actually won 4 out of 6 and 14 out of 24.  

 

So, I don't think it's accurate to say the Canucks were exposed and never recovered back then, just like they weren't expose now.  Just another game where you throw away the tape and move on.

[smithers joe]

how would they alter their defensive system? do you mean, get different players or make more high risk, high reward passes in their own end? i don’t disagree that our defense got owned, but if that is true, they would own many team’s defenses. 

the canucks always struggle when teams pressure them in their own zone. myers, edler and fantenberg all had bad games with give aways or trouble controlling the puck. even tanev and hughes were really pressured. 

i think they just ran into a better. highly motivated club that is putting all together finally. 

as a coach, what would you do differently?

[Ghostsof1915]

Should Tampa dismantle it's team from getting swept in the first round last year? 

[Gawdzukes]

NO 

[Coconuts]

I mean, considering the video teams have access to couldn't you say the same about any other team who's beat us by a large margin? 

 

Dallas lit us up 6-1 back in November, Pittsburgh also beat us 8-6. Vegas beat us 6-3 last month. 

 

Teams are always watching footage, I doubt Tampa's provided teams with a whole lot that's new. And it's not like most teams possess the skill level Tampa does anyway. 

[Silky mitts]

Our d has been for the most part, been poor the entire year.  Also Tampa is a powerhouse , first round sweep last year was an anomaly but that's the beauty of the nhl playoffs. 

[Chickenspear]

Not trying to rip Marky at all, and I understand the team game, but there were at least 3-4 goals I'm sure he'd like back. Sometimes games like this happen, there's nothing to really do about it but move forward.

[JM_]

1 hour ago, smithers joe said:

how would they alter their defensive system? do you mean, get different players or make more high risk, high reward passes in their own end? i don’t disagree that our defense got owned, but if that is true, they would own many team’s defenses. 

the canucks always struggle when teams pressure them in their own zone. myers, edler and fantenberg all had bad games with give aways or trouble controlling the puck. even tanev and hughes were really pressured. 

i think they just ran into a better. highly motivated club that is putting all together finally. 

as a coach, what would you do differently?

good question, Joe. I think we'd need to get into some real specifics here to get anywhere with the discussion. 

 

Edler did have a poor game so thats certainly part of it, not sure what you change due to a night of poor execution. 

 

I've notice Myers occasionally has problems with the puck in close to his skates, but the guy is built like a moose, he's not going to be very agile in tight situations and will cough up the puck when that happens. He's a very good skater and puck mover tho when he does have a little space. Again, what structure change deals with that?

 

Putting the Tampa game aside, this team does give up its zone very easily, its been a problem all year even when we're healthy, and that goes beyond just the d group. When you look at a team like Pittsburgh the puck support is so strong they can survive having multiple major injuries - is that just great coaching and practice, or is it skill they drafted for? If the Canucks had even a little bit more of that we'd be just fine. 

[Devron]

How about we just move on. It is what it is. New game today 

[PhillipBlunt]

Baumgartner is no tactician. His systems are pretty easy to read.  

[RowdyCanuck]

8 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

good question, Joe. I think we'd need to get into some real specifics here to get anywhere with the discussion. 

 

Edler did have a poor game so thats certainly part of it, not sure what you change due to a night of poor execution. 

 

I've notice Myers occasionally has problems with the puck in close to his skates, but the guy is built like a moose, he's not going to be very agile in tight situations and will cough up the puck when that happens. He's a very good skater and puck mover tho when he does have a little space. Again, what structure change deals with that?

 

Putting the Tampa game aside, this team does give up its zone very easily, its been a problem all year even when we're healthy, and that goes beyond just the d group. When you look at a team like Pittsburgh the puck support is so strong they can survive having multiple major injuries - is that just great coaching and practice, or is it skill they drafted for? If the Canucks had even a little bit more of that we'd be just fine. 

For a lot of what you say would be hidden  or might work better if we had guys creating space , like we have in most of the games we have won this season , this wouldn't be as big as a problem. 

Im not the biggest Green supporter but this mentality to play smart two way hockey is starting to tick me off cause with as many pests as we have we should be scrumming it up and getting under more players skin and I haven't see enough of that. 

We need to play hard two way game finish every check and watch as the D has more time and more teams give up the puck cause they don't want to be put into the boards by Jake or rooster or any of the guys. 

I like smart hockey but come on watching us play a 200ft game the way we are is sad cause we are still to bleeping nice and look at the games we've won , we playe hard and with snarl. 

 

Pitts is a bad example ha cause geno would be a first line centre on most teams and there the only team I can think of that can lose a guy like Sid and then have geno step up....that must be nice lol

but their a well built team and Jim is setting us up for a similar position with guys like Lind and VP and with players drafted by Jim will now be able to play in the ahl, which having say hoglander madden Lind ....all three show a lot of promise and could be a third line in the nhl , so we're getting there we are just playing the waiting game....

[xereau]

The Canucks' rinky dink midget level 5 man collapse system

 

+

Tampas speed and puck handling skill

 

=

 

that absolute crapshow from the other night.

We all got to see exactly the level at which our coach operates: base.

[Nucker 67]

Canucks went into this game, it seemed to me, with the mindset just to keep up with Tampa, try to take advantage of the few mistakes they make. Patiently waiting for the oppor.......oops, Tampa just scored 9.

 

The Canucks should've kicked down the door to Amelie Arena and took it to the Bolts right off the hop. When the pushing and shoving started, they should've hammered those small players. But they didn't, they respected Cooper's team too much and played some sort of waiting game to make their move.  

 

Canucks need more swagger.  

[BCNate]

That was just a perfect storm to get our *sses kicked.  Tbay is hot, and one of the elite teams in the league.  We had won 7 in a row, but may not have been as good as that indicates.  We just took the 2 longest flight that you can in the NHL, and Markstrom was awful.  Not making excuses, we got smacked big time, but that is a game you don't even look at the tape and move on.  We only lost 2 points regardless of the score.
 

Tonight is big, how well does this group bounces back.

[JeremyCuddles]

The entire team sucked. So it's hard to entirely blame the defensive system. But at the end of the day despite the unusually low energy from the team you have to admit this team all year has been super passive, tight box. Most people just stack up in the box and block/tip shots. It works against bad teams, just like our PP, but against good teams our systems are getting picked apart. People just chalk that up to "well it's a young team". 

[PhillipBlunt]

2 minutes ago, NUCKER67 said:

Canucks went into this game, it seemed to me, with the mindset just to keep up with Tampa, try to take advantage of the few mistakes they make. Patiently waiting for the oppor.......oops, Tampa just scored 9.

 

The Canucks should've kicked down the door to Amelie Arena and took it to the Bolts right off the hop. When the pushing and shoving started, they should've hammered those small players. But they didn't, they respected Cooper's team too much and played some sort of waiting game to make their move.  

 

Canucks need more swagger.  

Totally. The team is sometimes hard to play against, and then sometimes they're complete pushovers. Where is this lack of pushback emanating from?

 

I find it hard to believe that Benning (being the former AGM of Boston, who were one of the most physically imposing teams in the last two decades), would want to see the team he's building being pushed around.

[xereau]

There was a shift the other night where Tampa's 3rd or 4th line hemmed in our 3rd line for well over a minute.

 

They walked the puck around the outside with absolute impunity, took shots, got the puck back 4x or so after shots/chances.

 

You could see our line "playing the system" the entire shift.

 

Finally, after over a minute of the nonsense, Jake broke formation, and smashed a guy.

And we got the puck back half a second later, because someone, finally, took the body.

 

The passive defensive system of this team is hilariously lame, and it's a real problem because if this is all they can come up with, we should be looking elsewhere.

 

Ever wonder why we are getting outshot 2:1 by the middle of every game?  It's the system.

The team is being told to sit back, and get in the way of shots and passes, but do not chase the puck or theman.

This is what happens when analytics takes over the game.

Edited January 9, 2020 by xereau

[J.I.A.H.N]

Well, I am in a wait and see attitude 

 

I think there are many factors, and before we become an elite team, we will have to find ways to combat these strategies  

 

I do think that Tampa took away "time and space", which means the quicker they are on a player, the less time that player has to make the proper play.

 

That was no where more evident, that when Myers got pressured at the Tampa blue line and coughed it up for a goal....

 

To me Tampa is a quick high tempo team, who does well, when allowed to match lines, at home where they have last change...….

 

They have plenty of losses, so there are teams, that we beat, that match up better against Tampa, and beat them

 

So, yeah, the Dmen had problems, but match ups had a lot to do with that, as much as anything, IMO

 

I think Tampa is better than their record, which isn't that bad at all.....IMO, we were playing a mature, elite team.....go figure

 

Just don't think we are there yet...………..so I will wait and see how we do on this road trip

 

But generally, I think we are a 14 to 18 team, and it will take all 82 games for them to show which one they are.

[RowdyCanuck]

8 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Totally. The team is sometimes hard to play against, and then sometimes they're complete pushovers. Where is this lack of pushback emanating from?

 

I find it hard to believe that Benning (being the former AGM of Boston, who were one of the most physically imposing teams in the last two decades), would want to see the team he's building being pushed around.

Also remember I know Lucic isn't that good but Jim went after him also so I would say Jim isn't the passive one ha

 

7 minutes ago, xereau said:

There was a shift the other night where Tampa's 3rd or 4th line hemmed in our 3rd line for well over a minute.

 

They walked the puck around the outside with absolute impunity, took shots, got the puck back 4x or so after shots/chances.

 

You could see our line "playing the system" the entire shift.

 

Finally, after over a minute of the nonsense, Jake broke formation, and smashed a guy.

And we got the puck back half a second later, because someone, finally, took the body.

 

The passive defensive system of this team is hilariously lame, and it's a real problem because if this is all they can come up with, we should be looking elsewhere.

 

Ever wonder why we are getting outshot 2:1 by the middle of every game?  It's the system.

The team is being told to sit back, and get in the way of shots and passes, but do not chase the puck or theman.

This is what happens when analytics takes over the game.

100 upvotes for that right there! 

 

Also no one can't tell me Jake was not a lil pissed and just took it out on a player so I think that answers if Jake has a mean side. 

He gets mad watch out!