Provost Posted January 17, 2020 Author Share Posted January 17, 2020 1 minute ago, D-Money said: Gotta say...if Minnesota truly wants a young top-6 C back in this deal, Toronto would be smart to offer Nylander. They've got absolutely nothing at RD after Barrie hits UFA. That really stands out as an obvious fit for both sides. Instead of sending Kapanen out, use him to replace Nylander, you downgrade your offence a little.... but upgrade your D immensely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 3 minutes ago, Stamkos said: Canucks are already looking for another bonafide top 6 forward. Why would they trade one of the ones they have? I'm not saying they would. I'm saying I would. It's simply easier to find top-6 forwards than it is to find a top-pairing, young, RHD. Heck, we just acquired a dang good one in Miller for a pretty reasonable price, and most people think we still overpaid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Just now, Provost said: Because we are looking for a D upgrade AND a top 6 winger. It is a lot easier to find a top 6 winger than a top pairing D. Minny only does this because Boeser is from there and would excite the fans in what will be an iffy 2-3 years of retooling. I don't know if I’d do it. Isn't it taking from one pocket to fill another? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Stamkos said: I don't know if I’d do it. Isn't it taking from one pocket to fill another? If one pocket is a bit more empty, some would call this "balancing". Our forward group is decent, I'd say above average. But our RD group is below average, and it will be among the absolute worst in the league if Tanev walks. Not to mention, our top prospect (Podkolzin) is a RW. Probably our most-improved prospect (Lind) is a RW, and looking more and more like he'll be an NHL-er. And perhaps our most-improved roster player (Virtanen) is a RW. Obviously none of these guys are at Boeser's level, and only Pod probably has the potential to get there, but there's a lot more organizational depth there than at RD. Edited January 17, 2020 by D-Money 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pears Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 2 hours ago, HerrDrFunk said: I feel like Minnesota isn't going to let Dumba go for anything less than a 1st or a grade A prospect. Probably looking at Höglander, Demko, and a 1st to at least get them to listen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magikal Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Do the math backwards. Say you owned Dumba, would you give him up for that package? Doubtful. He is going to cost big and rightfully so. He is arguably their best asset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, D-Money said: If one pocket is a bit more empty, some would call this "balancing". Our forward group is decent, I'd say above average. But our RD group is below average, and it will be among the absolute worst in the league if Tanev walks. Not to mention, our top prospect (Podkolzin) is a RW. Probably our most-improved prospect (Lind) is a RW, and looking more and more like he'll be an NHL-er. And perhaps our most-improved roster player (Virtanen) is a RW. Obviously none of these guys are at Boeser's level, and only Pod probably has the potential to get there, but there's a lot more organizational depth there than at RD. What you’re saying does make sense, and I’d love to have him on the team, but I’m just worried that we’ll be worse off by doing this deal. Dumba hasn’t been the same since his surgery, and many are questioning whether his shot will ever reach the lethality it was once at. Yes, Boeser has the exact same concerns over his wrist surgery, but he’s still able to pass with the best of them and is among the top 30 scorers. I don’t want to give that up, especially since he’s so close to Petey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 20 minutes ago, Provost said: Because we are looking for a D upgrade AND a top 6 winger. It is a lot easier to find a top 6 winger than a top pairing D. Minny only does this because Boeser is from there and would excite the fans in what will be an iffy 2-3 years of retooling. Think you are simplifying this or really underestimating Boeser. He is near a PPG guy (and considering how much scrutiny he gets for not doing enough that is very impressive). I love Dumba but lets not boil down Minnie wanting Boeser "only cause he's from there". He is a great young talent and is still getting better and better. This isn't the best Boeser we're gonna see. Dumba is a good player but he isn't a world breaker. I love Dumba but Boeser has chemistry with both of our top 6 centers, has great intangibles and character, is only getting better. Over the course of this season alone he has started throwing the body more. Not a physical specimen but he is starting to use that size to his advantage and made him a credible forechecking threat. The more I talk about Boeser the more I'd rather just keep him. Lol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xereau Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Boeser + 2021 1st Dumba + 2021 1st That's about what it would take to get that kid outta there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted January 17, 2020 Author Share Posted January 17, 2020 5 minutes ago, N7Nucks said: Think you are simplifying this or really underestimating Boeser. He is near a PPG guy (and considering how much scrutiny he gets for not doing enough that is very impressive). I love Dumba but lets not boil down Minnie wanting Boeser "only cause he's from there". He is a great young talent and is still getting better and better. This isn't the best Boeser we're gonna see. Dumba is a good player but he isn't a world breaker. I love Dumba but Boeser has chemistry with both of our top 6 centers, has great intangibles and character, is only getting better. Over the course of this season alone he has started throwing the body more. Not a physical specimen but he is starting to use that size to his advantage and made him a credible forechecking threat. The more I talk about Boeser the more I'd rather just keep him. Lol. D > Winger That is the calculation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
48MPHSlapShot Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 13 points in 47 games and a -14. Granted, this season is likely an anomaly, but if the defenseman you're after is capable of having a worse season than Tyler Myers, it's probably not worth giving up a 22 year old near PPG player on a good contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 We need to sell some of our wingers for cheap and water down the market. Then trade Baer for Zucker with retention and give them a 3rd round pick or something in addition. Rask is someone I would be interested in as well as I think there's more to his game than in his time with Minni, but there also has to be retention involved. Can't see us getting Dumba for cheaper than Boeser and Dumba isn't the same player he once was (neither is Boeser really it seems, but he's still producing), so not sure if I'm committed to making that move. If we do then Tanev is gone as well to regain back any lost assets in a trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 1 minute ago, theo5789 said: We need to sell some of our wingers for cheap and water down the market. Then trade Baer for Zucker with retention and give them a 3rd round pick or something in addition. Rask is someone I would be interested in as well as I think there's more to his game than in his time with Minni, but there also has to be retention involved. Can't see us getting Dumba for cheaper than Boeser and Dumba isn't the same player he once was (neither is Boeser really it seems, but he's still producing), so not sure if I'm committed to making that move. If we do then Tanev is gone as well to regain back any lost assets in a trade. Guerin went on record saying he has to move a winger out to make room. He's unlikely to want to take one in return for Zucker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.Am.Ironman Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 55 minutes ago, D-Money said: Asking Boeser for Zucker (as was rumoured earlier in the year) was ridiculous. But Boeser for Dumba? Cap hits almost neutral. I'd do that all day, every day. Boeser is obviously great and all, but with the addition of Miller, Horvat's PP effectiveness, Podkolzin and Hoglander on the way, and Pearson and Virtanen proving to be capable top-6 guys... ...Brock is simply not as "necessary" as he once was. And Hughes is expansion-exempt, so even if Juolevi and Rafferty both become something, we still have a protection spot available. I wouldn't say Virtanen has 'proved' it yet. If he continues this pace into next season after a contract renewal then I'll be willing to say he is top 6. As for Dumba, given his 13 pts in 47 games this year I wouldn't be offering Boeser for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, mll said: Guerin went on record saying he has to move a winger out to make room. He's unlikely to want to take one in return for Zucker. Baer is already in the minors. Not many teams can take on 5.5 million in cap for Zucker without giving something back to make it feasible. I think the buyers market is slim this year with limited cap space and teams have to commit to Zucker for 4 years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 45 minutes ago, Pears said: Probably looking at Höglander, Demko, and a 1st to at least get them to listen. Wow...that would be a lot to give up. I know a D like Dumba would command a lot. Minny would have to take at least as much cap back as they ship out. Dumba 6 million per Zucker 5.5 million per for Hoglander Demko 1 million Stecher 2.3 million 1st (whichever one Tampa does not get) Erickkson 6million Schaller 1.9 million Lol....trades like this rarely happen. Just seeing how the cap evens out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mll Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 12 minutes ago, theo5789 said: Baer is already in the minors. Not many teams can take on 5.5 million in cap for Zucker without giving something back to make it feasible. I think the buyers market is slim this year with limited cap space and teams have to commit to Zucker for 4 years. Zucker is not a cap dump. Guerin was saying last week that they are under no pressure to make a move. They can wait until the off-season when teams have more space. He also says that some of their players are in high demand. Zucker is probably on that list. They can take on an expiring contract to help out for this season but doubt they'd want to handcuff their cap space and contract limits into next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GB5 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 2 hours ago, Provost said: So the deal literally includes two roster players (one veteran and one rookie(; a prospect; and a pick.... Plus a lot of money commitments Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theo5789 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 1 minute ago, mll said: Zucker is not a cap dump. Guerin was saying last week that they are under no pressure to make a move. They can wait until the off-season when teams have more space. He also says that some of their players are in high demand. Zucker is probably on that list. They can take on an expiring contract to help out for this season but doubt they'd want to handcuff their cap space and contract limits into next season. Well if that's how he feels, then good luck to him selling Zucker. Personally I'm not even that interested unless we can get him for cheap. Dumba is someone I could see teams having interest and maybe some of their under 24 forwards (which is Guerin selling that there is interest in his players). There are very few teams that can take on 5.5 million in cap for 4 years and give up picks to do so because other teams also have to consider how it affects their cap beyond this season just like Minni is concerned. Zucker provides very little else beyond his maybe 50 points a season. He's no JT Miller in value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted January 17, 2020 Author Share Posted January 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, GarthButcher5 said: Plus a lot of money commitments Not really... Sutter and a buried Baertschi makes up only slightly more cap space than Dumba. They are not on long term contracts In this day and age, money has to come in to move money out. Getting Demko PLUS Madden PLUS a pick (likely a 1st or 2nd) more than makes up cap-wise in terms of them getting guys who will be cheap or on ELC moving forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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