Popular Post nux4lyfe Posted January 19, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted January 19, 2020 3 hours ago, Dumb Nuck said: I love our team, hate the coaching. Yeah, I know that today we are #1 in our division but we are one loss away from 6th. I’m not a Green lover, I think he’s way to soft of a coach to have any playoff success so I’ll put my money where my mouth is: I will donate to Canucks Place as follows: $25 if we win the first round under Green. $50 more if we win the second round under Green. $100 more if we win the conference finals under Green. $150 more if we win the cup under Green. Bookmark it, quote me, hold me accountable, I’m putting my beer money where my mouth is. You represent your username very well. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hairy Kneel Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 The league is reading our mail. Our rumblings about Green after our losing streak and lo and behold everyone else starts firing coaches. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Green Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 First place in the pacific division at the all-star break and you still dump on Green ? Cajones is the correct spelling i believe , and you my friend brought 'em. Ain't talkin' 'bout love as the goal song for this season means only one thing imo , cup baby. :-) So save your beer money and let's party this spring , hey , hey , hey ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanP Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 I hope you realize that every coach that ever won a Stanley Cup, at some point in his career was someone who has never won a Stanley Cup before. Just think about it slowly... 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 6 hours ago, Dumb Nuck said: I’m betting my beer money on it, now that’s what I’d call balls. That's a pretty small budget for beer money - barely covers shot gun jake if we win a round. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 5 hours ago, Dumb Nuck said: I like Torts, problem was he was the total extreme opposite of AV, he was the wrong coach for us. I do not like Green, I just think he’s a bad coach overall. The main metric a coach is judged by is how much winning his team is doing - right now no way does he lose his job. Of course the coach does a lot - managing player ice time and line juggling etc likely the two most important things. Please explain how that could be done differently and what coach would you prefer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumb Nuck Posted January 19, 2020 Author Share Posted January 19, 2020 1 hour ago, IBatch said: The main metric a coach is judged by is how much winning his team is doing - right now no way does he lose his job. Of course the coach does a lot - managing player ice time and line juggling etc likely the two most important things. Please explain how that could be done differently and what coach would you prefer? I still don’t see what’s wrong with Gallant and he does coach that heavy style Green seems to use as an excuse for losing. Besides, I believe it’s 4/10 of the last teams to fire their coach mid season have gone on to win the Stanley Cup and that’s way better than odds than 0/50. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dumb Nuck Posted January 19, 2020 Author Share Posted January 19, 2020 4 hours ago, RomanP said: I hope you realize that every coach that ever won a Stanley Cup, at some point in his career was someone who has never won a Stanley Cup before. Just think about it slowly... Doesn’t mean they ever will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VforVasili Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 I feel 15% dumber just for having read this thread. Making the playoffs is not a goal huh? Tell that to the players on our team who have never been. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tas Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 there'll always be people who don't have a clue, I suppose ... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LowerMainLander18 Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 1. Those are some pretty low bids considering its relation to a guy losing his job and potentially losing multi-million dollars over the next few years. 2. ur reason for disliking an NHL coach make very little sense. Not really interested in following up on this lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-DLC- Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 10 hours ago, Dumb Nuck said: I love our team, hate the coaching. Yeah, I know that today we are #1 in our division but we are one loss away from 6th. I’m not a Green lover, I think he’s way to soft of a coach to have any playoff success so I’ll put my money where my mouth is: There are a few issues with this for me. "Hate the coaching" is so general. Coaches are individuals who work together in support of one another. So to lump them all together doesn't consider that....but I think you mean TG. Too soft works with these guys...he's good with younger players who really don't need a hard ass poking them in the shoulder and yelling in their ears. That can do more harm than good. Travis has a patient approach...but is still firm in subtle ways. You earn your keep. Some of the decisions, however, are likely based on more than that and a game by game needs assessment. Obviously, the guys are buying in and that's what matters. It's not about if "we" like the coach...it's whether or not the team likes him. And I believe they do. You can command respect without a hammer over the head approach. He isn't perfect, but no one is. How can you not like a coach who's got us in the position we're currently in? When some were giving up on his ideas so prematurely? Judge it all at the end of the year, and keep it in perspective. You can just pay up now instead. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 I think the expectation for most people going into this season was that the Canucks would challenge for a playoff spot. Pundits were probably split 50/50 on whether or not we'd actually make it. If you think Green is a positively bad coach, then I'd think you would predict that with Green (a bad coach), we would perform worse than expected and miss the playoffs. I challenge you to re-do your payouts and include a payout if we even just make the playoffs under Green, if you're truly so convinced he's a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 11 hours ago, Grape said: I think coaching is generally overrated in hockey. It's much more of a player's game compared to basketball and especially football. So that, combined with my belief that Green is doing a fine job, makes me disagree with your opinion. I agree that Green is doing a fine job. I disagree, really disagree with the idea that basketball is less of a 'player's game'. Basketball is far easier to coach imo - it has similar spacial dynamics with 5 (mobile) players/skaters and proportionate court/ice surfaces - and there are a lot of comparable systems, particularly base half-court/d-zone defensive systems. But where basketball has 5 key players and a bench that typically runs to 8, maybe 10 players (that actually get utilized to any degree).... Hockey has four full forward units, and 3 D pairings - all constantly on the fly. Hockey has short-handed and powerplay special teams. Hockey has a goaltender, which changes offensive and defensive dynamics considerably - there isn't simply a passive basket and backboard - there is an active goaltender, and area in behind that goaltender where they - and players retrieve pucks, cycle, etc. We could expand on this further, but I don't want to belabour this side point - hockey is the more difficult, complicated game to coach. And Green is an excellent one on many levels. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyman109 Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 3 hours ago, Dumb Nuck said: I still don’t see what’s wrong with Gallant and he does coach that heavy style Green seems to use as an excuse for losing. Besides, I believe it’s 4/10 of the last teams to fire their coach mid season have gone on to win the Stanley Cup and that’s way better than odds than 0/50. No matter what coach you put in place they will still have to play the players the GM has accumulated. Its not like all of a sudden Gallant is the coach and Petterson puts on 60 lbs. The Canucks play a fast skilled game that move the puck well and put pressure on the opposition in their end looking for turnovers to produce chances. The players Benning has drafted and acquired play into that game and system. If we switch coaches now we are not likely to change much as to the game the team plays. Its just more inconsistency the players have to deal with. How many coaches have the sharks had in the last few years, or the oilers. Hows those changes going for them? I like where we are at, see the improvement in team and players and believe we are on the right path to success. You can take your glass half empty approach and enjoy your beer money going to Canuck Place. I will watch the games, cheer for our team, and continue to watch the team grow into what they can become. They may not win a cup, may eventually fire Travis Green, but as long as they are first place in the division, I wont be calling for anyone's head. That's just ridiculous 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, debluvscanucks said: There are a few issues with this for me. "Hate the coaching" is so general. Coaches are individuals who work together in support of one another. So to lump them all together doesn't consider that....but I think you mean TG. Too soft works with these guys...he's good with younger players who really don't need a hard ass poking them in the shoulder and yelling in their ears. That can do more harm than good. Travis has a patient approach...but is still firm in subtle ways. You earn your keep. Some of the decisions, however, are likely based on more than that and a game by game needs assessment. Obviously, the guys are buying in and that's what matters. It's not about if "we" like the coach...it's whether or not the team likes him. And I believe they do. You can command respect without a hammer over the head approach. He isn't perfect, but no one is. How can you not like a coach who's got us in the position we're currently in? When some were giving up on his ideas so prematurely? Judge it all at the end of the year, and keep it in perspective. You can just pay up now instead. Completely agree debluvs, Someone mentioned in the PGT - that the players give Green credit, that they respect, trust and seem to work exceptionally hard for him. I find Virtanen to be an excellent example - he could easily have been discouraged or disappointed with his depth role, with his assignment to Utica, against the backdrop of high expectations of him. Instead he embraced a role that saw him focus as a complement on matchup lines, dzone starts - and even at the AHL level was called upon to hone the rest of his game = had unimpressive AHL production for his 'pedigree'. I don't think Green is 'soft' with them at all. I think he's respectful and direct - I doubt he minces words - gives them the straight assessment - communicates clearly - and I suspect this is a large part of why they reciprocate that respect - and work hard for him. I perceive him as a fair person - and when he accounts to his players for the reasons for his decisions, it's not hard to see why he'd have most of their confidence or at least acceptance of the roles he assigns. If you have self-respecting, hard-working, character youth - you do not need to use a hammer or yell at players - you simply need to enable their own motivation. I think Green is a very perceptive guy that probably has a fair measure of those positive traits that W Desjardins had - the ability to communicate, respect and to understand where his players are coming from. And as far as being 'soft' - I seem to recall an incident where Green ripped into one of his goaltenders (now in Ottawa) - who may not have shown the kind of fire he was expecting. I imagine when the first line of approach doesn't work, Green is capable of stepping up some professional heat to pull more out of his players (short of being abusive - I think the abuse issues/questions in hockey can become a bit blurred, understandably, in the course of a 'cultural' correction, that is taking place. I don't necessarily consider everything forceful/assertive to be abuse. I'd refer to the Babcock context as one where I think the lines gets blurred considerably. On the one hand you had coaches accused of kicking, assaulting, slurring, etc their players - and correctly being held to task for it. At the same time you had coaches like Babcock - who may not be the most polite/deferential person, and may have a fairly high estimation of himself (when he referred to himself in the third person = "I'd bet on Mike Babcock" - I had a feeling his days were numbered in spite of the job he was doing). But asking a young player to account for who he believes works hard on that team - what happened with Marner - is not "abusive" - and further, we don't know whether Babcock informed him that his opinions would be aired with the team. Toronto had an embarrassing work ethic when Babcock stepped in - and he had what appeared like a 'millenial' mindset in the room - some entitled, ego-cases to work with... In any event, that incident was something Toronto management knew about throughout his entire tenure - it made me somewhat sick to see them parade that out at the time of his firing - their management tacitly consented for years....until they didn't. Shanahan and Dubas are not players who must defer or fear for their jobs - and they knew full well what was transpiring. Years later they acted, and then for convenience pulled out stories of 'abuse'. I'm not buying that full storyline - it's way too convenient. Most of us have had coaches we did not like through the years, and some we could not stand - saw players get yelled at, and more - and I imagine my experience is similar to many others = the coaches that I performed best for were the ones that were respectful, communicative, that supported your development - were direct - but did not tear down your self-respect. It's not an easy task to 'manage' a whole lot of young men, however. It annoys me to a degree to see coaches like Babcock - in spite of what can be seen as a fair amount of arrogance - lumped in with coaches that were physically and psychologically abusive. Did Babcock yell at a player that was not playing on both sides of the puck, wasn't working as hard as he expected, etc? I don't know - it sounds like he may have approached some 'lines' - but I also recall Babcock being the first coach in the NHL to roll with a lineup that had no enforcer in it. It's all relative and timelines are part of context - there was a time when Babcock was considered 'progressive' - and there was a time when the skill of the Detroit Redwings, and at the same time the evolution of their 'stars' into two-way players - was at the forefront of NHL 'evolution'. I still recall those Canucks - Redwings matchups in the Datsyuk / Sedin era - that was as good as hockey got - unreal, between the whistles hockey that set the standard for the NHL moving forward. I don't see the attempts to subtly lump Babcock in with a generation of abusers as honest, representative, or necessarily fair. I think Toronto management and media did something fairly slippery through that process. Anyhow I sidetrack from the issue of Green = great coach. I'd wreck myself for a coach like that. Edited January 19, 2020 by oldnews 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBackup Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 Green isn't the issue. Something needs to be done about the powerplay though. You can't have a team that goes 7/8 then 1/24. There really is something wrong if we can get 5 pps in a game, not score on any of them, and just keep trying the same thing. Brown either doesn't seem to understand there's a problem or doesn't recognize one, neither of which are good signs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smithers joe Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 its a good thing, the team isn’t run on people’s opinions. opinions can always be wrong. i’ll trust the real hockey minds. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
10pavelbure96 Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 (edited) The fire green narrative is usually followed with we dont need a rookie coach, should have hired Gallant. Hire deboer (cant anymore) and now hire gallant again. We need an accomplished coach bla bla old boys style bla bla. The NHL is forever evolving. More and more of these old school coaches are getting pushed out of work, Babcock is an example. I think Green is doing a great job and you have no idea how he will fair in the playoffs cause we haven't been there with him yet. These players and this team have grown with Green. I'm sure he is highly respected in that room because of that. You cant say Green isnt a playoff coach. But I think we will find out this year. Edited January 20, 2020 by 10pavelbure96 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CptCanuck16 Posted January 19, 2020 Share Posted January 19, 2020 12 hours ago, Dumb Nuck said: Fire Green! I concur. If Aquaman is serious about being anything other than a bubble team than Green should be replaced by Gallant asap. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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