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captaincowbasher

(Proposal) realistic trade!

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I usually roll my eyes when someone uses “realistic” in their trade proposal, but interesting idea. Certainly challenging to open some cap room to fit KP in.  

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2 hours ago, mll said:

Former writer/stat guy Tyler Dellows is their head of analytics.  He's not a Baertschi fan and thought Benning did a poor job in trading for him.  Now that he's in the AHL probably even less impressed.  

 

Friedman says that ownership did not like that Shero worked with such a small circle.  They want more people involved including Dellows who apparently reports directly to ownership.  Don't think that's a trade he would validate given his earlier takes.  

 

Ownership in their presser after firing Shero complained that they had made the playoffs only once in 5 years.  Palmieri is their leading producer.  If their intention is to compete next season they might prefer to retain him.  

 

They are in GM search so there's not much indication on what direction they intend to go next season.  

 

If Palmieri is indeed available he might also be a target for Nashville given his familiarity with Hynes.  They have a spot open with Granlund being UFA and wouldn't be sending them a contract to make cap work.  

 

interesting. I'd hate it if Benning gave the analytics guy in the department that much sway. Not sure why Baer's analytics since the trade for him would be problematic.... it shows that he's usually in a high danger scoring area. 

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4 hours ago, captaincowbasher said:

JB has made it clear that he doesn't want to trade away futures for a TDL deal that helps the Canucks for 2 months. So if you read between the lines he's looking to add a signed top six forward that fits with the team moving forward. Enter Kyle Palmieri from New Jersey. At 4.65 mil per year, and he's signed for another year. Has decent size, plays a 200' game, and will get 25 goals, 50 points. He's a perfect fit for Horvat and Pearson, and in essence completes the second line. The Devils do this because we have a player that they covet- T.Madden, add Stecher and a 2nd rounder in this years draft and we got ourselves a deal. This move will put pressure on other teams in the Pacific to react, which often causes teams to over spend to stay competitive, which often only hurts them moving forward. We would be making an astute move based on our need to complete our top six. Dealing from a position of strength, as we have a number of good right side defenders, and an amazing cupboard of young prospects up and coming. Great job JB and company for putting us in this position.

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Apparently Canucks brass are extremely high on Madden, so they would really need to be coveting Palmeri to move Madden out. I really like the idea of landing a player like him since he would fill out our top 6 nicely, is under contract at a good cap hit and gives us more depth at F.

 

That Luongo recapture penalty is super annoying...3 mill we gotta eat for 2 more years:sadno:

 

I'm stoked for the present and the future. It will be interesting to see what our team looks like in 2023. I'm thinking the core 4 will be tearing it up and complimentary pieces like Virt, Gaud, Podz and Hog will be impact players in their own rights. Plus our D will be completely revamped by then. Going to be fun years to be a Canuck fan!

 

 

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19 hours ago, Provost said:

Where do you find that?  I see 30k projected on Capfriendly.  You can’t bank cap space when you are on LTIR which we have been all year.

 

The $2.8 million number on Capfriendly is the remaining LTIR left... not actual cap space (if you click on the question mark it explains that little anomaly).  We can’t spend it unless we know players aren’t coming back for the rest of the regular season.

 

19 hours ago, mll said:

CapFriendly already does the pro-rate calculation and show full salaries that can be added.  The 2.8M is LTIR cap space - they will need it to activate Ferland.  There's no cap available for now.  

 

Once he is activated they will have enough room to add a player at a full salary of 1M as they will have to demote someone to the AHL to respect the roster limit.  They don't have more unless they move out a contract.  

 

So cap friendly is great if you want a general overview of what is going on, but if you look at their numbers closely they don't work... They keep it up to date, sort of, but they don't have a team dedicated mathematician working on their day to day roster. Go through the day to day roster cost, factor in the LTIR, work backwards from today and you sit at about 800K available at TDL. If Ferland gets moved to LTIR at any point and depending on Leivo and Graovac we could have up to 2.8M available if they are out of the line up until TDL. Cap overage penalties are nothing we cant deal with, I'd be more concerned about the 4.55M in performance bonuses we are going to have to pay out... 

 

Right now depending on the website you believe we are sitting between $77,850,604.00 and $82,570,383.00 so you actually need to do the math. If you don't want to do the math just trust me

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57 minutes ago, Sedinery33 said:

 

So cap friendly is great if you want a general overview of what is going on, but if you look at their numbers closely they don't work... They keep it up to date, sort of, but they don't have a team dedicated mathematician working on their day to day roster. Go through the day to day roster cost, factor in the LTIR, work backwards from today and you sit at about 800K available at TDL. If Ferland gets moved to LTIR at any point and depending on Leivo and Graovac we could have up to 2.8M available if they are out of the line up until TDL. Cap overage penalties are nothing we cant deal with, I'd be more concerned about the 4.55M in performance bonuses we are going to have to pay out... 

 

Right now depending on the website you believe we are sitting between $77,850,604.00 and $82,570,383.00 so you actually need to do the math. If you don't want to do the math just trust me

Except you seem to be indicating that having players on LTIR banks cap space, which is objectively not true.  LTIR just lets you exceed the cap ceiling by the calculations you are talking about.  All the calculations you are talking about are how much LTIR space we have, and not how much cap space we have.  LTIR space isn’t used for ELC  bonuses  so has nothing to do with it.

 

All of those players have been on our roster all year (some going on and off LTIR).  There isn’t any magic math that makes their cap hits disappear.  You can just add them all up.  Pretty much every single day of the season their totalled salaries (including players on LTIR) have exceeded the cap.... so the idea that we have banked cap space defies logic.  Again, because LTIR is irrelevant to how much cap space you have as it doesn’t create cap space at all.

The performance bonuses are actually pretty much all we are worried about, and what the conversation was about.  The $1.7-3,7 million from this year pushed into next and the $2-4.5 million from next year depending on who hits what (including Juolevi as a top six guy who might make some bonuses)... those need to be accounted for in the same year as they were earned to avoid having to completely trash the roster for the following season when we are on the hook for around $18 million for Petterson and Hughes and the big veterans contracts (Eriksson, Beagle, Rousell, Ferland, and Lou's recapture) don't come off yet to make room for the big paydays.

Edited by Provost

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41 minutes ago, Provost said:

Except you seem to be indicating that having players on LTIR banks cap space, which is objectively not true.  LTIR just lets you exceed the cap ceiling by the calculations you are talking about.  All the calculations you are talking about are how much LTIR space we have, and not how much cap space we have.  LTIR space isn’t used for ELC  bonuses  so has nothing to do with it.

 

All of those players have been on our roster all year (some going on and off LTIR).  There isn’t any magic math that makes their cap hits disappear.  You can just add them all up.  Pretty much every single day of the season their totalled salaries (including players on LTIR) have exceeded the cap.... so the idea that we have banked cap space defies logic.  Again, because LTIR is irrelevant to how much cap space you have as it doesn’t create cap space at all.

Correct, it's not banked cap space, but if we exceed the space while players are still on LTIR cap issues aren't an issue. So if we place Ferland on LTIR and he is there past the TDL (which is how I worded it in my previous post) we have accessible cap space based on LTIR.... Current cap space based on my own math from day to day payroll is $767, 329.00. I fully believe if we traded Stecher to NJ for Palmieri we could make the cap work.

 

As for Bonuses, that had nothing to do with LTIR, sorry if I confused that. That is my only concern regarding our cap at this moment. We have 4.55M in bonuses that we will have to pay out and no space available to pay them, they roll over to next year. This team has a lot of dead cap space being wasted, where the hell is Lawrence Gillman to clean this up... Probably the best in the business, look how he's handling TO

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Just now, Sedinery33 said:

Correct, it's not banked cap space, but if we exceed the space while players are still on LTIR cap issues aren't an issue. So if we place Ferland on LTIR and he is there past the TDL (which is how I worded it in my previous post) we have accessible cap space based on LTIR.... Current cap space based on my own math from day to day payroll is $767, 329.00. I fully believe if we traded Stecher to NJ for Palmieri we could make the cap work.

 

As for Bonuses, that had nothing to do with LTIR, sorry if I confused that. That is my only concern regarding our cap at this moment. We have 4.55M in bonuses that we will have to pay out and no space available to pay them, they roll over to next year. This team has a lot of dead cap space being wasted, where the hell is Lawrence Gillman to clean this up... Probably the best in the business, look how he's handling TO

OK, I think we are totally in agreement and were just talking about different things.  I am not sure if we can fit in Palmieri and haven't really looked into it.  I am a lot more focussed on dumping cap sooner rather than later to avoid those bonuses pushing.  To me, any deal for him should also include (even in a different deal) some dead cap going out.

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On 1/23/2020 at 10:26 AM, captaincowbasher said:

JB has made it clear that he doesn't want to trade away futures for a TDL deal that helps the Canucks for 2 months. So if you read between the lines he's looking to add a signed top six forward that fits with the team moving forward. Enter Kyle Palmieri from New Jersey. At 4.65 mil per year, and he's signed for another year. Has decent size, plays a 200' game, and will get 25 goals, 50 points. He's a perfect fit for Horvat and Pearson, and in essence completes the second line. The Devils do this because we have a player that they covet- T.Madden, add Stecher and a 2nd rounder in this years draft and we got ourselves a deal. This move will put pressure on other teams in the Pacific to react, which often causes teams to over spend to stay competitive, which often only hurts them moving forward. We would be making an astute move based on our need to complete our top six. Dealing from a position of strength, as we have a number of good right side defenders, and an amazing cupboard of young prospects up and coming. Great job JB and company for putting us in this position.

Dumb idea.

 

Canucks aren’t going to be winning a cup this year and so why move a solid young prospect like Madden for KP?   Canucks need to be focusing on how to save cap spacd so that they can resign Markstrom, Tanev, and Virtanen.

 

Getting a healthy Ferland back + Tryamkin possibly coming here this season after his season in Russia ends = our trade deadline help.

 

If the Canucks truly want to make a legit trade at the trade deadline, then they should target players that are on one year deals, while moving players (or a player) that doesn’t fit into their long term strategy.   
 

For example - one of Stecher, Benn, Fantenberg + draft pick for a defenseman that will be a UFA, and is extremely capable of filling in on the top 4 if necessary.

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On 1/23/2020 at 2:08 PM, Herberts Vasiljevs said:

Palmieri is one of my favourite players in the NHL. I would love him on our team, even if it's Madden going the other way as the big piece. 

Just an absolute stupid idea when you consider our cap challenges between now and the Summer of 2021.    
 

The last thing that the Canucks should be doing right now is adding players with term.  

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We're gonna need our higher end prospects to be contributing on entry level deals when were legitimately competing. Also, we've got pretty solid offensive depth on the right side atm. Virtanen is breaking out, Boeser is putting up Boeser-esque numbers, and even Eriksson is chipping in. Not to mention Leivo, who's currently on the shelf. Moving Madden for Palmieri doesn't really address our biggest need, which is on the blueline. 

 

I'm not moving Madden unless it's for a good young defender. 

Edited by 48MPHSlapShot
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It is New Jersey so you have to think about what buying really low on Subban at 50% retained costs you as part of a deal.  Probably an offseason type of move.

Is Subban @ $4.5 million for three years a better bet to give you good value for that stretch than re-signing Tanev @ $5 million for the same term at least?  They are both the same age and playing around 20 minutes a night, and the only big knock on Subban is his contract.  He is still a legit top 4 guy, and a good value at half the cost.  Does the chance he rounds back into his form from a year ago outweigh the risk of messing with our team chemistry that Benning talked about?  Is Tanev likely to be as healthy for the next three years as he has been this year?  Having a veteran top 4 guy signed lets us say goodbye to Stecher and try out an up and comer on the 3rd pairing.  Can we even afford to sign Tanev, since we would have to dump cap

to make space for him.

New Jersey is a realistic trading partner as they have cap space to spare (especially next season) for us to dump more than we take back, and the need for young talent, where we currently need NHL ready talent at a good value to keep taking steps.  People can argue, but Madden is still a long shot to make the NHL (he would be the 2nd lightest guy in an already smaller league), and his only spot for us would be on the bottom 6 where small guys don't fit as well.  Madden is probably at his high water mark in terms of asset value with his great season, and he is worth more to Jersey than to other teams because of his father.

The other young pieces we can afford to give up are one of our young goalies, or any prospect not named Hoglander or Podkolzin who will almost certainly push the rest of our forward prospects downthe depth chart over the next two years when they arrive on the scene.

If you could dump a bunch of cap and get Palmieri and Subban (50% retained) back, you are in a way better position as a team talent and cap wise for the next couple years.

 

Sutter could be a player of interest to Jersey kind of like a veteran crutch for their kids like Beagle is for us.  Between him and Zajac, they can take all the hard defensive minutes and put Hischier and Hughes in a sheltered position to succeed and learn.   Jersey is also missing some 2nd and 3rd round picks over the next couple years, so a 3rd this year and/or a 2nd next year from us could be some enticement.

 

Edited by Provost

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