JB In Historical Context

[Nuxfanabroad]

People at that hater site mocked this thread. "Oh yeah, JB's a Sam Pollock, Torrey type..what a joke, etc..."

 

But I didn't say that. Simply stated that our past half-decade of drafting historically matches up w/ any other GM's 5 yr stint, in my opinion.

 

They are SOOOO negative over there. The Van page might as well be frozen(at that site) for the upcoming PO's. There are a few valiant, devoted fans there; however seems the majority of them don't deserve a place to spew their trolling-venom.

[Kevin Biestra]

On 8/8/2020 at 12:59 AM, Nuxfanabroad said:

People at that hater site mocked this thread. "Oh yeah, JB's a Sam Pollock, Torrey type..what a joke, etc..."

 

But I didn't say that. Simply stated that our past half-decade of drafting historically matches up w/ any other GM's 5 yr stint, in my opinion.

 

They are SOOOO negative over there. The Van page might as well be frozen(at that site) for the upcoming PO's. There are a few valiant, devoted fans there; however seems the majority of them don't deserve a place to spew their trolling-venom.

 

Benning has had a great five years...but the Oilers / Sather drafted all of this in three years.

 

 

Paul Coffey - #6 OA in 1980.  2nd best offensive defenseman in NHL history and much closer to #1 Bobby Orr than he is to whoever is at #3.  Needless to say the best player in that draft and picked behind Doug Wickenheiser, Darren Veitch etc.

 

Jari Kurri - #69 in the same draft.  The Oilers themselves picked ?Shawn Babcock? one round earlier, not to mention every team who whiffed on Kurri twice, and three times for some teams.

 

Walt Poddubny - #90 in the same draft.  A forgotten but very good player.  Three straight years with 38+ goals in the NHL.  Oilers cleaned house at this draft.

 

Andy Moog - #132 at the same draft.  It is between him and Glenn Resch for the greatest backup in NHL history and Moog was also a near-HOF-level starter.

 

Kevin Lowe - #21 overall in 1979.  Passed over by other teams in the first round for Jimmy Mann, Jay Wells, Tom McCarthy, Ray Allison, Doug Sulliman, etc.  Hall of Fame.

 

Mark Messier - #48 in the same draft.  Retired as the #2 all time scorer in NHL history.  Hall of Fame.

 

Glenn Anderson - #69 in the same draft.  Hall of Fame.

 

Grant Fuhr - #8 in 1981.  Hall of Fame.  Picked after Jim Benning, Mark Hunter, Doug Smith, etc.  #8 is pretty high for a goalie, but he was still much higher than 8th best in that draft.

 

Steve Smith - 6th Round, #111 in in 1981.

 

Marc Habscheid - Pretty darn good for 113th overall in 1981 (6th round).  The kind of quality player the Oilers didn't even need for depth.

 

 

It wouldn't really matter what they drafted in the other two.  But even still...

1982: Jaroslav Pouzar, Raimo Summanen

1983: Jeff Beukeboom (800 games), Esa Tikkanen (800 games, 600 points)

Edited August 11, 2020 by Kevin Biestra

[Nuxfanabroad]

1 minute ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Benning has had a great five years...but the Oilers drafted all of this in three years.

 

 

Paul Coffey - #6 OA in 1980.  2nd best offensive defenseman in NHL history and much closer to #1 Bobby Orr than he is to whoever is at #3.  Needless to say the best player in that draft and picked behind Doug Wickenheiser, Darren Veitch etc.

 

Jari Kurri - #69 in the same draft.  The Oilers themselves picked ?Shawn Babcock? one round earlier, not to mention every team who whiffed on Kurri twice, and three times for some teams.

 

Walt Poddubny - #90 in the same draft.  A forgotten but very good player.  Three straight years with 38+ goals in the NHL.  Oilers cleaned house at this draft.

 

Andy Moog - #132 at the same draft.  It is between him and Glenn Resch for the greatest backup in NHL history and Moog was also a near-HOF-level starter.

 

Kevin Lowe - #21 overall in 1979.  Passed over by other teams in the first round for Jimmy Mann, Jay Wells, Tom McCarthy, Ray Allison, Doug Sulliman, etc.  Hall of Fame.

 

Mark Messier - #48 in the same draft.  Retired as the #2 all time scorer in NHL history.  Hall of Fame.

 

Glenn Anderson - #69 in the same draft.  Hall of Fame.

 

Grant Fuhr - #8 in 1981.  Hall of Fame.  Picked after Jim Benning, Mark Hunter, Doug Smith, etc.  #8 is pretty high for a goalie, but he was still much higher than 8th best in that draft.

 

Steve Smith - 6th Round, #111 in in 1981.

 

Marc Habscheid - Pretty darn good for 113th overall in 1981 (6th round).  The kind of quality player the Oilers didn't even need for depth.

 

 

It wouldn't really matter what they drafted in the other two.  But even still...

1982: Jaroslav Pouzar, Raimo Summanen

1983: Jeff Beukeboom (800 games), Esa Tikkanen (800 games, 600 points)

There's no argument that the Oilers drafting has to be amongst the best ever. Having suffered thru them 80's(hating that rival), a person can't forget.

 

Suppose the only question would be the degree to which their star C's enhanced the whole stash. Then factor in how they(statistically) feasted on a def LOUSY division/conf; & they had almost a whole decade without any key skater injuries. Gretz was marvelling at this fact in his biography, that Prov columnist Jim Taylor wrote. He attributed EDM's excellent ice as possibly the greatest reason.

 

Yeah, a lot of things came together for that outfit, in a short period. Lucky that Peter Puck ran outa' bread...

[Kevin Biestra]

24 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Yeah, a lot of things came together for that outfit, in a short period. Lucky that Peter Puck ran outa' bread...

 

Kind of.  I got tired of losing to the Oilers as well...but at the same time I wish I could have seen that team play together for as long as possible.  It was spectacular hockey.  They had to give up Coffey in 1987 and then Gretzky a year later.  The two best players on the team in my opinion and they still won another Cup with the leftovers.

 

There was a very good 30 for 30 called King's Ransom about the Gretzky trade.  Wayne said that if that team had stayed together they probably would have won 8 Cups and I don't really doubt it.  The league would sure look different today without Gretzky going to LA...but it would have been something to see what that team could have accomplished.

[Nuxfanabroad]

Will folks come to realize who is our stealth-superstar?..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gent Jim, of course!

[theo5789]

His historical context is being written before our eyes. Enjoy the ride everybody!

[Nuxfanabroad]

Hmm, so many of them HF'ers were whining endlessly about the Toffoli trade as well. That site looks more ludicrous by the day.

Edited September 12, 2020 by Nuxfanabroad

[Nuxfanabroad]

Yeah..Van makes the final-8 teams.

 

Then today, hear their prospect/youth-stash is ranked #3 OA(as per Pronman). Moving up from #5 in 2019.

 

There ya go, HFHaterz. Put that in yer pipe & smoke it!

[Nuxfanabroad]

Then there's JB voted #6 for GM of the yr. Hmm..

 

Would have expected he'd be higher. Imagine if he'd done all these same moves, thereby building a young squad out in that Metros*xualDiv?

 

LouLamo signs a coach & makes 2 decent trades for the win? Ok..no ol'boys club meddling, we must assume.

Edited September 13, 2020 by Nuxfanabroad

[Junkyard Dog]

18 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Then there's JB voted #6 for GM of the yr. Hmm..

 

Would have expected he'd be higher. Imagine if he'd done all these same moves, thereby building a young squad out in that Metros*xualDiv?

 

LouLamo signs a coach & makes 2 decent trades for the win? Ok..no ol'boys club meddling, we must assume.

If Ferland was healthy and effective I bet he may have made the top 3.

[oldnews]

On 8/10/2020 at 7:58 PM, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Benning has had a great five years...but the Oilers / Sather drafted all of this in three years.

 

Only 21 teams drafting in the early 80s.

And more players coming from the draft into the NHL than the present - ie there are far more players migrating from Europe in present times, far more undrafted college signings, alternative sources, and a broader talent base world wide, etc.

The odds of drafted players making the NHL was higher then - I think if you go back an look at many teams, there are handfuls of players taken in the first five rounds in particular that wind up being NHLers - a higher percentage than presently. I just did a quick scan of a handful of teams in that period and it looks like a fairly distinct trend.

[Nuxfanabroad]

Went back & scanned JB's list of chosen picks over these past 7 drafts. Total, 48 picks. Of course, there are some absolute STUDS, with no gifted lotto help required.

 

How many of these kids will play 100 games in the bigs? We'll prob need another half-decade for accuracy, but 20/48 wouldn't surprise me.

Even Ty Cobb would appreciate batting about .410% !

 

In addition to this, we've added some nice contributing depth through trades(Pearson, Motte types). The larceny of Miller, Schmidt shakedowns almost don't need reference.

 

Lastly, his college & jr FA signings appear pretty solid as well. The fact that he hasn't acquired additional picks(over his tenure, thus far) appear deftly offset through these alternative roster manoeuvres.

 

It burns my bacon that JB still often receives scathing(& illogical) disrespect from those claiming to be Canuck fans, in any forum/platform.

[WeneedLumme]

13 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Went back & scanned JB's list of chosen picks over these past 7 drafts. Total, 48 picks. Of course, there are some absolute STUDS, with no gifted lotto help required.

 

How many of these kids will play 100 games in the bigs? We'll prob need another half-decade for accuracy, but 20/48 wouldn't surprise me.

Even Ty Cobb would appreciate batting about .410% !

 

In addition to this, we've added some nice contributing depth through trades(Pearson, Motte types). The larceny of Miller, Schmidt shakedowns almost don't need reference.

 

Lastly, his college & jr FA signings appear pretty solid as well. The fact that he hasn't acquired additional picks(over his tenure, thus far) appear deftly offset through these alternative roster manoeuvres.

 

It burns my bacon that JB still often receives scathing(& illogical) disrespect from those claiming to be Canuck fans, in any forum/platform.

With the team looking better than it has for a decade, new Calder finalists each year, and a young core that can reasonably be expected to continue to improve for years to come, the dwindling handful of hardcore JB haters are looking more pathetic every day.

[Lazurus]

On 8/22/2020 at 10:33 PM, theo5789 said:

His historical context is being written before our eyes. Enjoy the ride everybody!

That is sort of like the Chinese curse;

"May you live in interesting times"

[IBatch]

On 8/10/2020 at 11:34 PM, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Kind of.  I got tired of losing to the Oilers as well...but at the same time I wish I could have seen that team play together for as long as possible.  It was spectacular hockey.  They had to give up Coffey in 1987 and then Gretzky a year later.  The two best players on the team in my opinion and they still won another Cup with the leftovers.

 

There was a very good 30 for 30 called King's Ransom about the Gretzky trade.  Wayne said that if that team had stayed together they probably would have won 8 Cups and I don't really doubt it.  The league would sure look different today without Gretzky going to LA...but it would have been something to see what that team could have accomplished.

Considering that group was all in the cup money range when Coffey and then Gretzky left (they’d won four when most teams would just be in the sweet spot for getting to their first final) .... and that the 86-87 teams were their best - they were still getting better in other words, hard to imagine them not winning more cups right through to around 94... Gretzky himself arguably had his best post season in 1993...including one of his best games ever against TO in game seven of the conference final. 

 

Messier was at the peak of his powers, Gretzky too...Coffey went on to do great things in PIT and Detroit winning his last Norris in 95...compared to the MTL and NYI dynasties, they were just kids their first crack at a cup, and given their durability and greatness could have easily kept winning if they were together, right until their mid-30’s.   

Edited January 12, 2021 by IBatch

[Nuxfanabroad]

So now we see another highly touted/regarded rookie? Hoglander was incredible for his first game. Thank you, JB.

[Canucks Curse]

some very good moves and good nhl pro scouting

 

- schmidt for a 3rd- holy cannoli JB, what a steal, arguably the best trade of the offseason by any GM?

-hamonic, holtby, great signings

- pearson for Guddy- another amazing steal

-JT Miller- we made out very well with that trade. Payed a price, but very worth it, he is exactly what we need.

-ppl rag on JB for Roussel, Beagle, Sutter - but these guys have all played some pretty good hockey for the canucks, Roussel had a career year with us in 18-19 and then had that terrible leg injury which is hard to come back from at his age, but I think he was exactly what the doctor ordered when he arrived and that injury was not JB's fault

 

- I do wonder about the virtanen pick- if that was really his choice or not, as ever since, he has gone with high skill and two way play and has shied away from power forwards in the top 2 rounds. 

 

- I think Ollie will be decent this year and will have a long nhl career as a top 4-5 d man, yes tkachuk is better, and there were several other better players we shoulda/coulda taken-but he will be an nhler for a long time

[Fred65]

5 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

So now we see another highly touted/regarded rookie? Hoglander was incredible for his first game. Thank you, JB.

According to Dalwhal

 

He never gets the credit but Canucks Swedish scout Patrik Jonsson played a big role in finding Hoglander. Jonsson has been watching Hoglander since he was 15. Jonsson woke up early in Sweden to watch Hoglander tonight. He should be grinning ear to ear.

 

And for the record Jonsson was previously scouting for  Dubuque in the USHL junior team. Our contacts within the the USHL has been incredible.

Edited January 14, 2021 by Fred65

[oldnews]

Nuxfan has got to be the board leader in necroing his own old threads

[Nuxfanabroad]

2 hours ago, oldnews said:

Nuxfan has got to be the board leader in necroing his own old threads

Thanks ON! Peter Gabriel even wrote a tribute song:

 

Digging in the dirt

To find the places we got hurt...

 

:^)