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Sustained success...are we there yet? Not for this season, but for seasons to come?

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KoreanHockeyFan

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Before I get flamed by the entire message board I'll start off by saying...

 

  1. I love how the Canucks have played this season. I'm sure I speak for the most of us here in that they have blown away our expectations.
  2. The Canucks are on the right track. Benning, Green, the entire organization has this rebuild on schedule and it looks like it's moving faster than the development of the Oilers and Flames (which is always a good thing)
  3. The Canucks' drafting has been impeccable. We've got a great, young team here that's primed to have success in the coming years. With guys like Horvat, Pettersson, Hughes, Boeser...I'm sure we'll see another cup run during these guys' prime.

 

BUT...I've made this thread to caution people's expectations for the short to medium term. I think we're still a handful of years away from another cup run (duh). This recent stretch of play has been great, but let's be honest, without Markstrom and Demko, the Canucks would not be in the place they are right now. The amount of chances and shots the Canucks give up every game shows how this team is still developing. The Canucks are up there, but they're not at the elite tier that teams like the Bruins, Capitals and Blues are at..YET. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a bit of a regression over the next year or so.

 

We saw something similar with the Flames in 2014-15 - they've been in and out of the playoffs ever since their surprise season that saw Hartley win the Jack Adams, a career year for Jiri Hudler (who?) and breakout years for Gaudreau and Monahan. All of the stars aligned for the Flames that year which saw them beat the Canucks in Round 1. I'm not suggesting that the Canucks are going to have the exact same fate as the Flames have had over the past few seasons, but what I am suggesting is that we can see how the Canucks could regress as they still have some growing pains to go through just like any other young team. With the league being as tight as it's ever been, the ups and downs of the Canucks are only going to be more likely in the near future. 

 

I'm mostly making this point because I can totally see CDC blowing up and calling for Benning and Green's heads next year if we see a regression and the Canucks don't make the playoffs. Just like how the exact same thing was being done when the Canucks were struggling this past December.  So please, for the love of God, with this recent run of success, don't suddenly start expecting the Canucks to only go up from here and become a consistent cup contender within 2 years. Buckle up for the long ride - the Canucks still have a bunch of ups and downs to get through before they become a perennial franchise once again.

 

TL;DR: The Canucks are doing great and are on the right track, but the team is still young and learning so don't be surprised at a regression every now and then over the next few seasons. 

 

 

 

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the newer nhl system

does not allow for teams to build gradually over a number of seasons

with rfas getting a larger percentage of the cap

a team must sign their high end youngsters

and win with them quicker

teams really need some value contracts to get to the top

hard to manage that if the team does not peak rapidly

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We get mentally weak in the big games with the big boys. Our 3rd and 4th line only seem to want 

to play when we are up in a game. Some nice goals from the bottom forwards but not enough when

it counted, we are already up 2 goals and a bottom 6 guy will tack on a goal or two when it makes no

difference at all.

Edited by Shirotashi
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Our defense is hot trash. 

 

Myers, Fantenberg, Benn and Stecher have no place on a Cup contending roster. Edler and Tanev are on their last legs.

 

If we don't completely rehaul that back end we're going to be easy second round outs in the coming years.

 

Markstrom can't play God like this every season. 

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It all comes down to possession and we don't have enough guys on the team that want to dispossess the puck from the opposition. When we put in the effort to do this, we win 90% of the time because we have a lot of skill on the team. When we don't, we lose 90% of the time because the guys who have the skill on the team can never use it without the puck, unless of course you have our absolute monsters of Markstrom and Demko in net to steal the games we get lucky bounces on. 

 

Early in the year we had consistent forechecking and we were murdering teams. Blowing them out. Then we just kind of went into energy conservation mode and instead of playing on the body, we played a stick's length away and started allowing easy breakouts. 

 

We play okay at home, but we throw hardly any hits on away ice. Jekyll and Hyde. There's a reason why our road record sucks and our home record is great, and I refuse to blame it on travel. 

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Agreed with Barzal about the defense needing work.  Heard in the Bruins broadcast that 4-on-4 we're 30th in goal differential (-4, which doesn't sound that bad but 30th), and the team shouldn't be routinely getting out-shot and depending on the goalies.  The team's probably also inflated due to how good Markstrom and Demko have been but system wise something needs to change, since against the really elite teams it seems like speed still gives the D-group problems.

 

- Edler got blown by on a couple occasions, once by Pastrnak which Marky stopped and another which he did not, and he also chased on the 1-0 goal

- On the 3rd goal no one really picked up Krejci but they just stood and tried to poke-check him even when he went into a dangerous area

 

Equally as important would probably be getting out of the current cap dead weights, otherwise it would be tough to pay the key guys their big bucks (though this has been discussed at length so I won't get into it).

 

 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

Progress will be rather consistent & linear, I bet.

Consistent growth is what I want to see from this team. Unlike previous years, we have made progress because, knock on wood, our core has stayed healthy.  Healthiness is what I want.

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all depends on how the cap situation plays out with markstrom.. as of right now we have close to 25mil committed to sutter ericsson beagle ferland baertishi spooner buyout luogno recapture.. ferland we don't know if he'll be effective anymore since he has a history of concussion and seems like a regular hit is enough to knock him out for months.. and i'm not sure if anyone will want to trade  our defense on the horizon doesn't exactly scream great/elite.. we have a great one in hughes.. after that everything iss gonna be question mark.. i mean woo rafferty looks good in their development but doesn't mean anything until they get to the NHL and show success.. the rest is an aging edler and tanev who both are likely gone by next contract 

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9 hours ago, Phil_314 said:

Agreed with Barzal about the defense needing work.  Heard in the Bruins broadcast that 4-on-4 we're 30th in goal differential (-4, which doesn't sound that bad but 30th), and the team shouldn't be routinely getting out-shot and depending on the goalies.  The team's probably also inflated due to how good Markstrom and Demko have been but system wise something needs to change, since against the really elite teams it seems like speed still gives the D-group problems.

 

- Edler got blown by on a couple occasions, once by Pastrnak which Marky stopped and another which he did not, and he also chased on the 1-0 goal

- On the 3rd goal no one really picked up Krejci but they just stood and tried to poke-check him even when he went into a dangerous area

 

Equally as important would probably be getting out of the current cap dead weights, otherwise it would be tough to pay the key guys their big bucks (though this has been discussed at length so I won't get into it).

 

 

 

 

If you suggesting someone should have taken the body on the krecji goal i agree. Myers was just literally standing there.

 

Myers also did a fly by on Marchand in the neutral zone while the rat was stationary, the pass he was able to make created the rush.

 

The time and space the opposition is given with the puck is gross. They just get to do whatever they want

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11 hours ago, Mathew Barzal said:

Our defense is hot trash. 

 

Myers, Fantenberg, Benn and Stecher have no place on a Cup contending roster. Edler and Tanev are on their last legs.

 

If we don't completely rehaul that back end we're going to be easy second round outs in the coming years.

 

Markstrom can't play God like this every season. 

What are you talking about?!? 

 

Myers was a key piece for a Jets team that went to the Conference Finals less than two seasons ago. He's also clearly missed by the Jets this season, his presence is clearly missed there. Myers contract might become an albatross in years 4 and 5 but we're not there yet.

 

Benn, yeah, he's been okay. Nothing great. I say he's someone I'd trade this offseason. He's been overtaken on the depth chart by Oscar Fantenberg which is saying something. Agree with you there. Wouldn't be shocked if Benn's dealt this offseason to alleviate some cap pressures. Benn for a 5th is something I can see happening at the draft. 

 

Fantenberg has been solid. Nothing flashy. He's an upgrade on guys like Hutton, Biega from last season. Isn't flashy but hasn't been much of a liability either. He probably gets a bigger contract elsewhere next year as the Canucks look to open that left side slot for someone like Tryamkin or Juolevi. 

 

Statistically, Stecher is a much better player than he gets credit for. He's a legit Top 4 defenseman and he's someone who can move up and down the lineup and never worry about. You need guys like him. I have nothing really terrible to say about him. I don't see the criticism for him. He and Hughes have probably been our two best defensemen this year. And Stecher's been one of the best defensemen on this team for years, especially in a particularly miserable stretch for this hockey club. 

 

Edler and Tanev have a lot of wear and tear on them, for sure, but I don't see either of them being on this team 3 years from now. Tanev may leave as a free agent if he gets big dollars elsewhere. Edler may retire after his contract expires. But neither has been a liability this season. 

 

The defense could be better but it's not nearly as bad as it's been over the last 3 or 4 seasons. I think having guys like Brogan Rafferty, Oli Juolevi, and Jet Woo jump into the lineup in the next couple of years will really elevate this club's defence. It just takes time. 

 

And Markstrom's a good goalie. He may not play like God forever but that's why we also have Demko.

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13 minutes ago, Quantum said:

What are you talking about?!? 

 

Myers was a key piece for a Jets team that went to the Conference Finals less than two seasons ago. He's also clearly missed by the Jets this season, his presence is clearly missed there. Myers contract might become an albatross in years 4 and 5 but we're not there yet.

 

Benn, yeah, he's been okay. Nothing great. I say he's someone I'd trade this offseason. He's been overtaken on the depth chart by Oscar Fantenberg which is saying something. Agree with you there. Wouldn't be shocked if Benn's dealt this offseason to alleviate some cap pressures. Benn for a 5th is something I can see happening at the draft. 

 

Fantenberg has been solid. Nothing flashy. He's an upgrade on guys like Hutton, Biega from last season. Isn't flashy but hasn't been much of a liability either. He probably gets a bigger contract elsewhere next year as the Canucks look to open that left side slot for someone like Tryamkin or Juolevi. 

 

Statistically, Stecher is a much better player than he gets credit for. He's a legit Top 4 defenseman and he's someone who can move up and down the lineup and never worry about. You need guys like him. I have nothing really terrible to say about him. I don't see the criticism for him. He and Hughes have probably been our two best defensemen this year. And Stecher's been one of the best defensemen on this team for years, especially in a particularly miserable stretch for this hockey club. 

 

Edler and Tanev have a lot of wear and tear on them, for sure, but I don't see either of them being on this team 3 years from now. Tanev may leave as a free agent if he gets big dollars elsewhere. Edler may retire after his contract expires. But neither has been a liability this season. 

 

The defense could be better but it's not nearly as bad as it's been over the last 3 or 4 seasons. I think having guys like Brogan Rafferty, Oli Juolevi, and Jet Woo jump into the lineup in the next couple of years will really elevate this club's defence. It just takes time. 

 

And Markstrom's a good goalie. He may not play like God forever but that's why we also have Demko.

HAHHAHAHAHAHA

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Trade Boeser, Stecher, Eriksson, sign Byfuglien. Bring in Tryamkin and Juolevi by season's end.

I know a lot won't like the trade Boeser suggestion, but I'm finding his game lacks. I believe he needs to get better with his skating and stick handling. He can still rack up the points, but that's good for the return. The Canucks could get a lot for him.

 

Anyway, 2020/21 D Core:

 

Hughes - Byfuglien

Edler - Myers

Tryamkin - Tanev

Fantenberg - Benn

Juolevi

 

No one's gonna mess with us.

 

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2 hours ago, NUCKER67 said:

Trade Boeser, Stecher, Eriksson, sign Byfuglien. Bring in Tryamkin and Juolevi by season's end.

I know a lot won't like the trade Boeser suggestion, but I'm finding his game lacks. I believe he needs to get better with his skating and stick handling. He can still rack up the points, but that's good for the return. The Canucks could get a lot for him.

 

Anyway, 2020/21 D Core:

 

Hughes - Byfuglien

Edler - Myers

Tryamkin - Tanev

Fantenberg - Benn

Juolevi

 

No one's gonna mess with us.

 

Maybe we work on that with him rather than unloading him. He turns 23 soon and is arguable if he's even in his prime yet and still is producing points despite "struggling".  What happens when he works on his game further, develops and gets out of this funk? We likely would've sold him "low" at this point.

 

Of course if there is an amazing deal on the table, I'd consider it, but he's also a very good friend of Petey and team chemistry is a big factor.

 

Also no thanks to Byfuglien. He's nearly at the 35+ contract region, hasn't skated all year due to recovering whatever ailment he has (and his last playing season was only 42 games), known to come to camp out of shape, and just doesn't strike me as to having the character that our team has been looking for.

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