The lack of push back is concerning

[-DLC-]

I have to agree.

 

Look...the team stands by the "we have to stick to our game plan" and it's worked.  At times.  But sometimes you have to abandon things if another team is upping the intensity...you have to match that.

 

Teams like Calgary (Boston) use that energy as momentum....if they're getting away with crashing our guys into the boards it fuels them.  We have to have guys willing to respond to that.  Not Petey...who likely would.  They all need that fire...the death stare that takes a number and goes back at guys to send a message.  The "no you don't" attitude...not the "we'll outscore you".  When we don't.

 

I loved that during the winning streak it was a real "brotherhood"....I thought last night that it seemed more like a bunch of individuals trying to get it done.  Not on the same page and that starts with that comradery and having each others' backs.  

 

I'm looking at guys like Myers, Benn, etc.  I'm sorry, but they have to up their game...they are NOT here to show their finesse and skill.  When the going gets rough, I want these guys to earn their keep by getting down and dirty.  Myers in particular...he has size that, even if not the best "fighter", can be used as a bit of a deterrent in throwing some good solid hits into the boards (Edler style).  I'm not too impressed with him...he wants to be offensive but it's shortchanging the need for size and grit.  If he's not the guy, he has to learn to be.

 

I feel that Petey (and Quinn) deserve guys on board who respect what they bring and are willing to compliment that...not try to match it. 

 

I'm not in panic mode...but on the verge.  Playoff hockey has already begun...we need to keep up or we won't even make it there.  And...if and when we do, we have to be ready.  

 

Ferland WAS going to address some of this and I don't feel that his game will ever change fully...in that he'll just become meek and uninvolved.  Guys who love the game and are passionate about that don't see that fizzle out too easily.  Once they're in the throes, it's an auto pilot thing.

 

I wish he had stayed healthy but it can't even be "one guy"...the team has to adopt an attitude that goes beyond we'll outskate and outscore you.  We have to outwork other teams and that means every single shift.  The battles on the boards have to be more than trying to focus on getting the puck...fight for it.  HARD.

 

When we're winning it seems to come naturally...when we're not, it's a mental thing where the team is fragile and weak when it isn't coming quite as easily.  That's where they really need work.  Thank God we have JT because I feel like he leads the charge in that.  In a do whatever it takes to get there deal (like Burr had).  A never say never.  Some have slammed him recently but I really see it in him.  I also feel Bo maintains his intensity...but it's more aimed at driving the net (a good thing) but lacks in going "at" the other team.  Need more of that.

[JM_]

I'm probably more concerned with how easily we can be hemmed into our own zone lately, but the lack of targeted pushback is pretty annoying. Petey's willingness to go back into the dirty areas last night was so commendable tho, that kids all heart. But he has so much of it he will get hurt if someone doesn't step up and send a message. I don't expect it to be another small guy on the team, but what use is Schaller, e.g. if he's not being physical? 

 

I did like Roussel trying to annoy Lucic into a game misconduct. I don't know if thats technically pushback but it took some balls to risk getting pounded by Lucic. Had he been thrown out of the game it may have made the difference. 

[6string]

11 hours ago, MikeyD said:

I think our lack of pushback isn't even a top priority on things we need to get going at this point. There's more glaring issues to worry about, IMO. 

Show the list....

[-DLC-]

10 hours ago, TNucks1 said:

and people dont want to add simmonds or dillion, hopefully we pick some one tough who hits and sticks up for team mates.

I'm starting to change my mind on these ideas....

[6string]

8 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I'm probably more concerned with how easily we can be hemmed into our own zone lately, but the lack of targeted pushback is pretty annoying. Petey's willingness to go back into the dirty areas last night was so commendable tho, that kids all heart. But he has so much of it he will get hurt if someone doesn't step up and send a message. I don't expect it to be another small guy on the team, but what use is Schaller, e.g. if he's not being physical? 

 

I did like Roussel trying to annoy Lucic into a game misconduct. I don't know if thats technically pushback but it took some balls to risk getting pounded by Lucic. Had he been thrown out of the game it may have made the difference. 

"Had he ( Lucic ) been thrown out of the game it may have made the difference" which means a police presence is still required from game to game.

[6string]

Who does Green have in the lineup that will deliver a message to the opponents that Petterrson, Hughes, Boeser and our goaltenders are hands off.

 

We are repeating history here in less than a decade.

[JM_]

Just now, 6string said:

"Had he ( Lucic ) been thrown out of the game it may have made the difference" which means a police presence is still required from game to game.

yeah for sure it is. its not a magic fix tho, last weekend Edmonton totally destroyed Calgary and Looch was useless. He was more motivated last night tho.

 

I doubt that we can go out and get an enforcer for this season, and I question how effective a guy would be as a rental tbh. If you have no history with a team I wonder how willing you'd be to bleed for them. 

 

But you can ditch plugs like Schaller and see what MacEwan is willing to do, or try to find a gritty winger who plays hard at least, if not an enforcer per se. 

[chon derry]

lack of push back ….it wasn't that long ago that the canucks were the team initiating physicality ;ie torres. is there some fear from management  side of unfair suspensions? even when gudbransen was here there wasn't retaliation from hits to our young guys  more of a reaction to infractions against himself. come on canucks MAN UP!  its time to come up to the line , been below it way to long!   

[-DLC-]

11 hours ago, dougieL said:

Unfortunately when mean and tough players come they eventually end up passive...it's not the personnel...it's the culture.

 

I don't buy this.

 

That mean/toughness is something within and usually the fire is lit accordingly.  If it takes a team "culture" to nurture it, it likely wasn't really there to begin with on an individual basis.  

 

The culture comes from....the personnel.  They set the tone in the room and each guy is partly responsible in that.  If a guy is out there giving his all and sacrificing his body for the team, often the team will feed off that.  It takes players willing to lead that charge.  You can't blame the past....this team was to establish a new identity and has every opportunity to. 

 

While many will look at the Sedins era as "soft"....look at some of the footage of the abuse they took but still hung in there, battling hard.  Toughness doesn't have to come in the form of dropping the gloves.  It's in the form of not shying away in the trenches.  Sedins didn't do that.

 

I'm tired of the label that is passed along in the form of "culture".  That's a passing of the buck and lets the current team off the hook.

 

It's too early to say they won't/can't turn it around (again)....but it is concerning to see that the level of "compete" is relying on skill and a plan on paper.  Have to mix some grease in with it because it's required down the stretch and beyond.  When the plan isn't working, you get in there and fight despite it.  I think it becomes more of a "mental trying to figure it out" deal.  Messes with the mind and the confidence follows.  Bang and crash rather than thinking about it.  

[-DLC-]

My biggest concern right now is how this all affects the future of this team and the franchise players (Petey and Quinn).  

 

Must be SOOOO frustrating to Petey...I think we're seeing signs of that in his interviews.

 

GD it, if he's willing to go back at a guy his teammates should follow.  If they're going to rely on him he has to be able to rely on them.

 

The guys we signed FOR that purpose have to step up.  They're not here to hone their craft as much as they are to allow Petey/Quinn to hone theirs.  No ego...just supporting cast.  

[JM_]

9 minutes ago, debluvscanucks said:

My biggest concern right now is how this all affects the future of this team and the franchise players (Petey and Quinn).  

 

Must be SOOOO frustrating to Petey...I think we're seeing signs of that in his interviews.

 

GD it, if he's willing to go back at a guy his teammates should follow.  If they're going to rely on him he has to be able to rely on them.

 

The guys we signed FOR that purpose have to step up.  They're not here to hone their craft as much as they are to allow Petey/Quinn to hone theirs.  No ego...just supporting cast.  

It bugs me when Green says they played like a 'young team'. The young guys are showing so much heart, its some of the older guys that aren't pulling their weight in that department. Beagle is a big exception tho, he's basically playing with a broken arm if not for the plate still in there. 

[Wayne Glensky]

1 hour ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I'm probably more concerned with how easily we can be hemmed into our own zone lately, but the lack of targeted pushback is pretty annoying. Petey's willingness to go back into the dirty areas last night was so commendable tho, that kids all heart. But he has so much of it he will get hurt if someone doesn't step up and send a message. I don't expect it to be another small guy on the team, but what use is Schaller, e.g. if he's not being physical? 

 

I did like Roussel trying to annoy Lucic into a game misconduct. I don't know if thats technically pushback but it took some balls to risk getting pounded by Lucic. Had he been thrown out of the game it may have made the difference. 

They should have waited and gave Pettersson the captaincy. Guy has the most heart out of anyone. He is the guy to lead us. Not Horvat. 

[-DLC-]

18 minutes ago, The 5th Line said:

 

Sure it's tough to take abuse and keep on going without doing anything about it but it's not the right type of toughness.. people defended the Sedins way of "toughness" cause that's what we do, we defend our guys, but at the end of the day it's a losing attitude and it has needed to change for awhile.

 

"Woah did you see Daniel take those jabs from marchand and do absolutely nothing?!" Yeah sorry Deb, that ain't the type of toughness you need to win

 

Culture is real.  Boston has it, the caps have it, the blues have it

 

Have we ever heard marchand, bergeron or Chara complain about the referees?  What about ovie or Backstrom or john Carlson? 

 

 

 teams with crap cultures are buffalo, Edmonton, Toronto,  etc

 

They all whine about the referees, they suck year after year no matter what the personnel and they never can compete in the playoffs if they ever even make it.

Thing is though this kind of misses the mark:

 

1.  They DID win (a lot) and made it through the gruelling stages of the playoffs.  Bruins beat them in the end....but don't sell the Sedins and that team short.  They did some pretty great stuff.

 

2.  We don't hear the Bruins complaining because, well, they've had a free pass to do what they want for some time now.  They know that.  They're smug about it.  If someone on the Canucks had Marchand's "run" of dirty stuff?  They'd be in jail.

 

3.  You have to connect the dots...teams "allowed" to play heavy do.  Often without consequence and with a bit of a shield of immunity.  Other teams have the book thrown at them.  But they have to overcome that and, while the "whining" is often "warranted"...fight dirty with dirty despite the consequences.  Take one for the team and, over time, to set the tone..."we don't care, we'll pay the price".  Not to play a dirty game but, every once in awhile, dole some out rather than just taking it.

 

I do agree that we lacked that pushback then and seemingly still do.  But I think there are reasons some teams play more tentatively and the "whining" is more addressing some piss poor inconsistent reffing and rules at times.  Though it's time to adopt an attitude of "it is what it is" and take the focus from that aspect of things and put it in evening the score on the ice...even if the refs fail to do so.

 

I do feel that some teams have advantages over others but agree that whining won't address that.  Some tit for tat more likely will.

It would be a sad day, though, if dirty play became the norm and pushed skilled players out due to injury, etc.  May as well go watch beer league hockey at 8 rinks if you just want to see guys go at each other.  There has to be a balance struck where consistency rules and teams all have an even playing field.  But, until that happens (and I'm not holding my breath), I do agree that we have to respond to some of this crap and not focus on beating them on the scoreboard...especially when that's not happening.  At least have them go away with some bruising because unscathed is unacceptable.

[JM_]

19 minutes ago, NeilColville said:

They should have waited and gave Pettersson the captaincy. Guy has the most heart out of anyone. He is the guy to lead us. Not Horvat. 

yeah... the Bo bashing going on lately is &^@#ed up. The guy plays hard, is doing what he's told. To suggest Horvat plays with no heart is just stupid. 

 

sorry don't mean to crap on you personally @NeilColville but Bo is the least of this teams issues. 

Edited February 9, 2020 by Jimmy McGill

[PhillipBlunt]

This team will probably slide out of playoff contention now, which is for the best. They’d be slaughtered in the playoffs. They have no guts, allowing their young players with phenomenal talent to be run so blatantly. 
 

It is a culture issue for sure. Hopefully when the season is done and the team is punching its new ticket to the draft, Aquilini will take the scythe out and go to work.

 

The team needs real leaders. Fearless players who’ll go through the boards for anyone on their team. Not the weakness on display yesterday. 

[J.I.A.H.N]

1 hour ago, debluvscanucks said:

My biggest concern right now is how this all affects the future of this team and the franchise players (Petey and Quinn).  

 

Must be SOOOO frustrating to Petey...I think we're seeing signs of that in his interviews.

 

GD it, if he's willing to go back at a guy his teammates should follow.  If they're going to rely on him he has to be able to rely on them.

 

The guys we signed FOR that purpose have to step up.  They're not here to hone their craft as much as they are to allow Petey/Quinn to hone theirs.  No ego...just supporting cast.  

Deb

I am going to ask you this, because you are the biggest Canuck fan on here...……..

 

Are you prepared to move on from beloved players? Are ready to trade a Boeser or a Tanev? 

 

Are you ready to trade Boeser for Brendan Gallagher...……………...older, none stop motor, close to the same points, and an aggressive type player

 

or what about a 

 

Boeser + Tanev + Madden      for        Gallagher and Romanov ?

 

My point is, we need to change the general make up, and you cant buy value with buttons......you need to pay with value

 

Guys that would change the general makeup of this team...….

 

Greenway out of Minnesota

Hathaway out of Washington

Khaira out of Edmonton

 

or are we going to play

 

McEwen

or Bailley

 

Basically my point is, are we going to make aggressive changes with players that will make a difference?

 

Don't get stuck on the trade part, but the change part...…..

 

I do not think CDC is ready to make those type changes

[JM_]

12 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

This team will probably slide out of playoff contention now, which is for the best. They’d be slaughtered in the playoffs. They have no guts, allowing their young players with phenomenal talent to be run so blatantly. 
 

It is a culture issue for sure. Hopefully when the season is done and the team is punching its new ticket to the draft, Aquilini will take the scythe out and go to work.

 

The team needs real leaders. Fearless players who’ll go through the boards for anyone on their team. Not the weakness on display yesterday. 

I do think we've got guys that would play a different way, its confusing to me that we don't see more pushback because we do have the players to do it at least some of the time. We have a solid PK so I'd like to see them take the risk of more penalties and at least respond with something worthy of 2 minutes in the box.

 

Friedman did a good job isolating the issue last night, it should bother and embarrass Benning, a lot. I'm not on the fire Green brigade but there are two quality coaches out there right now, so if Jim wanted to go that way I guess its an option. I can't see it but then again there are some really confusing holes in this team, particularly push back and the PP. 

 

 

Edited February 9, 2020 by Jimmy McGill

[-DLC-]

2 minutes ago, janisahockeynut said:

Deb

I am going to ask you this, because you are the biggest Canuck fan on here...……..

 

Are you prepared to move on from beloved players? Are ready to trade a Boeser or a Tanev? 

 

Are you ready to trade Boeser for Brendan Gallagher...……………...older, none stop motor, close to the same points, and an aggressive type player

 

or what about a 

 

Boeser + Tanev + Madden      for        Gallagher and Romanov ?

 

My point is, we need to change the general make up, and you cant buy value with buttons......you need to pay with value

 

Guys that would change the general makeup of this team...….

 

Greenway out of Minnesota

Hathaway out of Washington

Khaira out of Edmonton

 

or are we going to play

 

McEwen

or Bailley

 

Basically my point is, are we going to make aggressive changes with players that will make a difference?

 

Don't get stuck on the trade part, but the change part...…..

 

I do not think CDC is ready to make those type changes

No...because I don't feel they're the issue and the changes that need to be made are guys who are much more disposable.  Except I guess the flipside is others won't want them either.

 

I'd rather we DO focus on giving guys like Mac, Bailey, etc. a shot. Mac's already proven he's willing to go..and that's exactly what we need.

[PhillipBlunt]

1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I do think we've got guys that would play a different way, its confusing to me that we don't see more pushback because we do have the players to do it at least some of the time.

It’s been a symptomatic issue with this team for a while now. Somewhere along the chain of command, the message is lost. Either it’s being propagated from somewhere within or it’s being rejected by players who lack the guts and courage to play that way. 
 

Too many players have come from other teams and played with half the urgency and truculence once getting here. Can’t be a coincidence. 

1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said:

We have a solid PK so I'd like to see them take the risk of more penalties and at least respond with something worthy of 2 minutes in the box.

Don’t hold your breath. 

1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Friedman did a good job isolation the issue last night, it should bother and embarrass Benning, a lot. I'm not on the fire Green brigade but there are two quality coaches out there right now, so if Jim wanted to go that way I guess its an option. I can't see it but then again there are some really confusing holes in this team, particularly push back and the PP. 

Benning was one of the architects of the Boston team that kicked Vancouver’s ass. He’s a huge fan of that type of game, which is still very much a part of the league. I can’t see how he’d be okay with the gutless way this team plays. He must be incensed. 
 

I don’t think Green shares that approach. Time will tell, but one of them is going to get the ax if the team whimpers it’s way to the end of the season. A lot of Canucks fans aren’t going to want to shell out the exorbitant prices for tickets to watch some of the best young players in the league get pushed around like red headed stepchildren. 

[JM_]

1 minute ago, PhillipBlunt said:

It’s been a symptomatic issue with this team for a while now. Somewhere along the chain of command, the message is lost. Either it’s being propagated from somewhere within or it’s being rejected by players who lack the guts and courage to play that way. 
 

Too many players have come from other teams and played with half the urgency and truculence once getting here. Can’t be a coincidence. 

Don’t hold your breath. 

Benning was one of the architects of the Boston team that kicked Vancouver’s ass. He’s a huge fan of that type of game, which is still very much a part of the league. I can’t see how he’d be okay with the gutless way this team plays. He must be incensed. 
 

I don’t think Green shares that approach. Time will tell, but one of them is going to get the ax if the team whimpers it’s way to the end of the season. A lot of Canucks fans aren’t going to want to shell out the exorbitant prices for tickets to watch some of the best young players in the league get pushed around like red headed stepchildren. 

yeah Jimbo does seem to get annoyed at the lack of grit on display. 

 

Green is meh to me, I don't care if he stays as long as the team is doing the right things. But.... if you can't change the player roster and want to shake things up theres only one other choice. I've wanted to see what Gallant could do here since he got shown a taxi in Florida.