J.I.A.H.N Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 OK, this is a knee jerk reaction to last nights game, but it is painfully obvious that we need energy and drive. Otherwise, we are going to see players like Pettersson and Hughes, pasted repeatedly against the boards and cheap shots on a regular basis. And that will just be the regular season. The playoffs will be a whole new beast. And we will be left with dust, and in the dust as we scrape our finesse players off the boards. First off, let me say, I love all our players individually, and if surrounded with different players, all could play on a playoff winning teams. In saying that, I believe with our present make up and our current prospects, we are a little short on moxy and drive. In short our physical response does not live up to expectations. Nor does our offensive play, when the volume is turned up. It sickens me, when our skinny young Swedish centerman, will go back on a player, harder than our 212 lb captain, and I would not stop there, as there are more players, who I would hold accountable. But there is no point in naming names, only changing games! I suggest we should at some point, spend asset to change this weakness, and at some point, right a wrong that will plague us for years to come. Now as much as I took a shot at Horvat, I am not proposing to trade him, only surround him, Pettersson, and Hughes with players, that can do that job on a regular basis. It will not come cheap! My first thought is, that we get a hard look at McEwen, Bailey, Rafferty, Juolevi and Demko on a much larger scale, because, we need to see, what we have before making and harsh moves, where we spend assets, that do not need to be spent. All of these players are players that if on the big club, will reduce cap, and help us, immensely. Now, as you can imagine, my playing Demko, is to establish, if he can in fact, be the Canucks starter now, opening up other opportunities. There will be trades, that do not taste good, and are hard to swallow, but let me be clear, in some cases, those changes would be good. I asked myself just to clarify my thoughts, would I trade Brock Boeser's 44 points for Tome Wilson's 37 points? Would Washington? IMO, no Washington would not, and it would not take them long to give that answer. My goal is to be a Cup contender in 3 years...…………..a lofty goal! To be sure! Valuable incoming players not to be moved: Tryamkin, Hoglander, Podkolzin, Rafferty, Juolevi , McEwen and Bailey Disposable prospect with value: Lind, DiPietro, Madden, Rathbone Valuable Roster players that can be moved: Markstrom, Tanev, Boeser, Sketcher, Roussel, Leivo, and Pearson Less Valued Roster Players: Eriksson, Sutter, Beagle, Schaller, Benn, Baertschi LTIR: Ferland Now, I am not saying we move everyone on the lists, but lets see what we have left...………. Miller (5.5) Pettersson(9.0) XXXXXX XXXXX Myers (6.0) Demko (4.0) XXXXX Horvat (5.5) XXXXXX Hughes (7.5) XXXXX XXXXXX XXXXX Gaudette (3.0) Virtanen (3.0) XXXXX XXXXX XXXXX Motte (1.5) XXXXXX Just as a rough estimate of cost of players left after the purge with 2022-2023 values...…………..45 Million Estimated Cap in 2022-2023...…………………………………………………………………………….88 Million Remaining Cap space...……………………………………………………………………………………43 Million Players not on the books at that time: Eriksson, Schaller, Benn, Sutter, Beagle, Roussel, Pearson, Leivo, Edler The Luongo recapture penalty is gone! So lets see what it looks like with the prospect that could slot in Miller (5.5) Pettersson(9.0) Podkolzin (1.5) Juolevi (1.5) Myers (6.0) Demko (4.0) Hoglander (1.5) Horvat (5.5) XXXXXX Hughes (7.5) Tryamkin (3.0) XXXXXX XXXXX Gaudette (3.0) Virtanen (3.5) XXXXX Rafferty (1.5) Motte (1.5) MacEwen (1.5) Bailey (1.5) At this point the Cap is approx...…………………………………………………………………………….59.0 Million We have not traded a player, and we have increased our size and tenacity...………………………...Good! Available cap space after placements...…………………………………………………………………….29.0 Million Now, where do we go from here? Do we keep Boeser, Markstrom, Tanev, and Pearson? Well, don't you think it depends on what you can get back? By this time (2022-2023) Markstrom, Tanev, and Pearson will all be starting to age out This is where I get to, and then ask myself, are we better to have kept those 4, or are we better to have moved on and increased our truculence? Those 4 players will cost an estimated 23 Million...… (Boeser (6), Markstrom (6), Tanev (6), and Person (5) Still leaving us around 6 Million to play with. Short term...……...do you resign Marky and Tanev? Or move on? Do they really fit? I can see holding onto Pearson and Boeser….pretty easy, really!(short term) Getting Rid of Eriksson is easy, and we wait until after July 1st to do it...………...Cost? maybe nothing, maybe Madden? Maybe Gaudette if you like Madden? IMO, long term...…..we need more muscle? I would love a Kreider, Greenaway, Anderson type. All would cost! I would also like a Gallagher or Domi type, are they warriors! What about a Max Domi for Boeser trade? How do we get tougher in the future? We do need it! This is where I get stuck!~ Right here!......do we go left or right? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 Bess for Risto is better than for Domi. Domi expects to be a core piece, and he’s not. Risto would be a core piece for us. Bess for Risto is core piece for core piece. We have Hogs and Pods coming soon and Lind for forwards who will be in support roles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DADDYROCK Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 For me despite all the losses and injuries we are still looking like a playoff team. Who would have thought we would be first in the Pacific division(by the slimmest of points) at the beginning of the year. We have had some rough games lately and if JB.can he will, bring in some boys to help this team going forward,we DO NOT want to give up on our young guys for a few rental players,so once again,BE PATIENT. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 4 minutes ago, DADDYROCK said: For me despite all the losses and injuries we are still looking like a playoff team. Who would have thought we would be first in the Pacific division(by the slimmest of points) at the beginning of the year. We have had some rough games lately and if JB.can he will, bring in some boys to help this team going forward,we DO NOT want to give up on our young guys for a few rental players,so once again,BE PATIENT. Our young stars are not the problem; it’s the veteran support players who are. So do we trade them for ones who will play the right way, or do we get a coach will demand they play the right way? One of those two has to happen, or we will not make the playoffs. Which is more possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DADDYROCK Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 What I was trying to say is you have to give something to get something and we don't want to have to give away any young guys,that's all.Also you are so right on some of our vets think they have already retired coming here to one of the most beautiful cities in the world. Play right or be traded somewhere else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazurus Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 (edited) A thoughtful piece. But not deep enough. Past experience with the people that make decisions show that some of what you post may beyond them. Personally I don't think Pettersson's next contract should be more than 7.5 taking him to year short of FA, something like Boeser's where the last year is huge so a qualifying offer equals a substantial raise. The idea of maybe having to trade a key player, Horvat or Boeser has to be considered for the right price. What is forgotten is that this is a rebuilding team, so much hype on all the young players, all 4 of them, there need to be more and not hopefuls that are not playing. Find out if necessary, and I don't think they need to, I think they already know and are just delaying the bad news, what Juolevi is, he may be worth more as a trade asset that still has potential rather than a player that can bump a player off this team. This GM would not want to have him show up as a bust especially as so many players taken after him are now stars in the league. Horvat might be getting antsy and depressed watching his career peter away losing, he has only experienced one partial winning season and over 4 seasons of pretty dismal results. Boeser might be damaged goods after his wrist injury, certainly he is not the type of player this team is trying to create, a first guy in boards guy and he is not really a finesse player, he is a trigger man that has not been even hitting the net or overwhelming goalies since his surgery but his reputation is still intact and his value,especially to a team like Minnesota, extremely high. Could you imagine the fan faithful in Minnesota hearing that he was available and they passed him up. A team like Buffalo, where their young players are getting tired of losing might make a strong deal for Horvat and his leadership. One thing to note that not many post here is the make up of cup contenders and winners, up and coming teams have 10 to 14 players in a 4 year age group with their stars, established teams like Washington take on a couple of young guys, more than the Canucks do in some cases. To Minn. - Boeser, Stecher and 2020 3rd & 4th round picks - minus 9+mil in cap hit To Van - Minn 2020 1rst, Dumba and Greenway - add 7+mil 2 mil more capspace To Buffalo - Horvat, Markstrom, a couple of 2nd round picks 2020 and 2022 and Juolevi - minus 9 mil cap hit maybe some retention to make it fit To Van - 2020 1rst round pick, conditional (if top five the Canuck add a future 1rst 2022/23 instead of two 2nds or something else) Ristolainen, Hutton and Dylan Cozen's. If Markstrom resigns with them or they make the playoffs conditions are added. Just these three dealt would leave Pettersson, Miller, Virtanen/Greenway (6'6") Guadette, Pearson, Virtanen/Greenway/ Cozens (6'3") And the rest of the bottom six Ristolainen (6'4") - Myers (6'8") Edler (6'3") - Tanev (6'2")/ Dumba (6') Hughes (5'9") - Rafferty (6'2") and or Tryamkin (6'7") when signed as the 7 defensemen Demko as the starter with Hutton as the backup and exposed Increase the size of the defense and forwards, reduce the cap hit hell coming and still leave Tanev as a trade chip at the TDL and 12 to 14 players all with 3 or 4 years of each other. 3 first round picks over the next two years making up for the one traded away Either 3 this year, in a very good draft year or 2 this year and one next year, either way it completes the rebuild, creates cap space, reduces exposure to key players and will probably mean playoffs next year and getting ahead of other rebuilding teams so this team isn't chasing behind. Buffalo gets improved goal tending, additional leadership (Horvat is closer to home and happier) and a center to check Taveras and they keep their core young players if anything they add to it, with Dahlin taking a step next year. A decision between Markstrom or Demko going forward needs to be decided or Seattle could rape the team with the mere threat or silence of taking either one, better to make that decision on the team's own grounds and plan around it now. That would make one of them trade assets now while the season is going in Markstrom's case. He has hinted that he will want a clause contract and that could mean exposing a younger and future of the team goalie, Demko. To keep him what would Vancouver give Seattle not to take him? Seattle could just about dictate the terms, and they may not really even need him. It is a vulnerability that can be solved. Trading Markstrom between now and the TDL would solve many issues, a trade with conditions if he resigns with that team to enhance the return, no need to spend time negotiating with his agent freeing up time to plan out other trade deals, allows for more cap certainty and expansion problems. Demko should be at the point of stretching out his experience for the last 20 games or so, he handled a bigger load in Utica. There would be many teams in on Markstrom and he would be the premiere goalie on the TDL market as he is a starter and would not be a rental backup. Maybe gets a backup and pick in return. Add 2+ million into the cap space next season. The thing about 1rst round picks is every 10 the odds of success go down so 1 to 10 are historically, going from 2009 to 2018 extremely high something in the 97% sure things, there have been only three bombs in those numbers so having the additional picks almost insures two more NHL players and the team gets Cozens, almost another 1rst. 11 to 20 are in the 75 to 80% range, some years are much better than others, some as low as 50% and some 100% but none under 50%. Part One. Edited February 9, 2020 by Lazurus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree n Me Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 We go neither right nor left. We stay the course. How do you expect to win going forward without Markstrom? Have you checked out how many times we have been widely outshot and Marky has earned two points for us by standing on his head?Take away these points and there is no chance that this is a playoff caliber team. Your suggestion to reward this outstanding effort is to ship him out of town. How would you like it if you busted your ass at work and got shown the door for your efforts? Who would even want to play for the Canucks if they knew they were always one whim away from being traded. Why don't you do your job and let Benning and management do their job? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazurus Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Tree n Me said: We go neither right nor left. We stay the course. How do you expect to win going forward without Markstrom? Have you checked out how many times we have been widely outshot and Marky has earned two points for us by standing on his head?Take away these points and there is no chance that this is a playoff caliber team. Your suggestion to reward this outstanding effort is to ship him out of town. How would you like it if you busted your ass at work and got shown the door for your efforts? Who would even want to play for the Canucks if they knew they were always one whim away from being traded. Why don't you do your job and let Benning and management do their job? Then what? do you give up to keep Demko? One of them will be going and in 4 years who is the goalie when Marky hits 35? I heard somewhere he wants a NMC clause already, not enough of that with other players that can't be traded? And his 6+ mil a season salary will impact the team, they will have to jettison the future to make room, none of the clause contract guys are moving and they cannot all be bought out or waited out. So do you let Seattle decide or Vancouver? Lose Demko for nothing and need a goalie for the future or get something for a hot goalie that might improve the team's immediate future now? Each goalie this team has had has taken 3 to 4 years to even get a game in the NHL. Does the team put ll their eggs in DiPetro's basket and hope he matures in 6 years? Or count on Demko's last 4+ plus years of demonstrated skill now? Who do you give the effort to for free? Oh the reward part, don't kid yourself Markstrom will be handsomely rewarded, he will want a 4 or 5 year deal worth 6 mil or more with a clause and he will get it, but this team cannot afford it. Cap hell, Hughes just qualified for ALL his bonuses so deduct another 3 mil off next years cap space. Edited February 9, 2020 by Lazurus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazurus Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 2 hours ago, janisahockeynut said: OK, this is a knee jerk reaction to last nights game, but it is painfully obvious that we need energy and drive. Otherwise, we are going to see players like Pettersson and Hughes, pasted repeatedly against the boards and cheap shots on a regular basis. And that will just be the regular season. The playoffs will be a whole new beast. And we will be left with dust, and in the dust as we scrape our finesse players off the boards. First off, let me say, I love all our players individually, and if surrounded with different players, all could play on a playoff winning teams. In saying that, I believe with our present make up and our current prospects, we are a little short on moxy and drive. In short our physical response does not live up to expectations. Nor does our offensive play, when the volume is turned up. It sickens me, when our skinny young Swedish centerman, will go back on a player, harder than our 212 lb captain, and I would not stop there, as there are more players, who I would hold accountable. But there is no point in naming names, only changing games! I suggest we should at some point, spend asset to change this weakness, and at some point, right a wrong that will plague us for years to come. Now as much as I took a shot at Horvat, I am not proposing to trade him, only surround him, Pettersson, and Hughes with players, that can do that job on a regular basis. It will not come cheap! My first thought is, that we get a hard look at McEwen, Bailey, Rafferty, Juolevi and Demko on a much larger scale, because, we need to see, what we have before making and harsh moves, where we spend assets, that do not need to be spent. All of these players are players that if on the big club, will reduce cap, and help us, immensely. Now, as you can imagine, my playing Demko, is to establish, if he can in fact, be the Canucks starter now, opening up other opportunities. There will be trades, that do not taste good, and are hard to swallow, but let me be clear, in some cases, those changes would be good. I asked myself just to clarify my thoughts, would I trade Brock Boeser's 44 points for Tome Wilson's 37 points? Would Washington? IMO, no Washington would not, and it would not take them long to give that answer. My goal is to be a Cup contender in 3 years...…………..a lofty goal! To be sure! Valuable incoming players not to be moved: Tryamkin, Hoglander, Podkolzin, Rafferty, Juolevi , McEwen and Bailey Disposable prospect with value: Lind, DiPietro, Madden, Rathbone Valuable Roster players that can be moved: Markstrom, Tanev, Boeser, Sketcher, Roussel, Leivo, and Pearson Less Valued Roster Players: Eriksson, Sutter, Beagle, Schaller, Benn, Baertschi LTIR: Ferland Now, I am not saying we move everyone on the lists, but lets see what we have left...………. Miller (5.5) Pettersson(9.0) XXXXXX XXXXX Myers (6.0) Demko (4.0) XXXXX Horvat (5.5) XXXXXX Hughes (7.5) XXXXX XXXXXX XXXXX Gaudette (3.0) Virtanen (3.0) XXXXX XXXXX XXXXX Motte (1.5) XXXXXX Just as a rough estimate of cost of players left after the purge with 2022-2023 values...…………..45 Million Estimated Cap in 2022-2023...…………………………………………………………………………….88 Million Remaining Cap space...……………………………………………………………………………………43 Million Players not on the books at that time: Eriksson, Schaller, Benn, Sutter, Beagle, Roussel, Pearson, Leivo, Edler The Luongo recapture penalty is gone! So lets see what it looks like with the prospect that could slot in Miller (5.5) Pettersson(9.0) Podkolzin (1.5) Juolevi (1.5) Myers (6.0) Demko (4.0) Hoglander (1.5) Horvat (5.5) XXXXXX Hughes (7.5) Tryamkin (3.0) XXXXXX XXXXX Gaudette (3.0) Virtanen (3.5) XXXXX Rafferty (1.5) Motte (1.5) MacEwen (1.5) Bailey (1.5) At this point the Cap is approx...…………………………………………………………………………….59.0 Million We have not traded a player, and we have increased our size and tenacity...………………………...Good! Available cap space after placements...…………………………………………………………………….29.0 Million Now, where do we go from here? Do we keep Boeser, Markstrom, Tanev, and Pearson? Well, don't you think it depends on what you can get back? By this time (2022-2023) Markstrom, Tanev, and Pearson will all be starting to age out This is where I get to, and then ask myself, are we better to have kept those 4, or are we better to have moved on and increased our truculence? Those 4 players will cost an estimated 23 Million...… (Boeser (6), Markstrom (6), Tanev (6), and Person (5) Still leaving us around 6 Million to play with. Short term...……...do you resign Marky and Tanev? Or move on? Do they really fit? I can see holding onto Pearson and Boeser….pretty easy, really!(short term) Getting Rid of Eriksson is easy, and we wait until after July 1st to do it...………...Cost? maybe nothing, maybe Madden? Maybe Gaudette if you like Madden? IMO, long term...…..we need more muscle? I would love a Kreider, Greenaway, Anderson type. All would cost! I would also like a Gallagher or Domi type, are they warriors! What about a Max Domi for Boeser trade? How do we get tougher in the future? We do need it! This is where I get stuck!~ Right here!......do we go left or right? I like your thoughts here, they are centered around building a contender for a decade or longer easily and without the need of other GM's always dealing fairly. Once the core is established it will be like the last time the team was really good, the new kids may have a hard time beating out a player. You seem to see that a rebuild is not something completed with only 4 young players, a bunch of over paid 30 somethings with clause contracts although if the team strikes and uses what it has they could come out on top, the big price is time and it is also a big trading asset. But there are man teams that are younger than the Canucks and just as competitive with way more upside, this group will be aging out similar to the final days of the Sedins. Rouseel = Burrows, Beagle = Hanson, Tanev = Hamhuis, Edler = Edler, Markstrom = Luongo or Schnider plus they have Sutter, Ferland and others, so similar to the decline years. Now your 3 year estimate is a little long, LA, Anaheim, SanJose and even Vegas will have a decline, well Vegas just might outbid the Canucks for Markstrom but the emphasis on youth will put the Canucks just behind Edmonton, maybe even ahead with patience, Calgary and Arizona, they may get a slap this season for pre testing maybe lose a pick, so for the team to make the playoffs in two years should be realistic. I would trade Horvat only because I do believe that losing can become a habit, this has happened before with other teams and he has tremendous value, enough to maybe get two top six players in return over two years and the Boeser example is perhaps even a humanitarian type trade if to where his dad lives. Again his reputation might get 2 top six players in return. I made some effort to go all in with those two as trade assets, the thing is the deals have to be really good or maybe even better for the other teams, like I said, our team would be trading time. The hard to trade players will be around for another couple of years, they will be older and slower but could still mentor younger top players for a couple of seasons, if anything wild like my fantasy happened the team could have two 2020 picks on it next year, playing early hasn't seemed to hurt any of the players doing so now on other teams, if anything those players seem to progressing faster and farther than this team's. True both Hughes, Boeser and Pettersson were not really hurt by waiting but it did allow them a head start on others in the race for rookie of the year, Pettersson and Hughes compete against 18 and 19 year olds so they should be better anyway but the next round can start off right away. I do have to ask though, why would Pettersson get 9 mil for his second contract? He is a RFA so a bridge type deal should be a done deal. And if he gets offended and decides he will not resign at the end his trade value will astronomical and by that time there should be 3 more top six draftee's on board. It is great to have a 100 point guy but two guys getting 50 points can work as well and with half the chance of getting injured and crippling the team. Can you imagine what happens if Eichel gets hurt, that team relies on him too much, hence the Horvat to Buffalo idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 39 minutes ago, Lazurus said: I like your thoughts here, they are centered around building a contender for a decade or longer easily and without the need of other GM's always dealing fairly. Once the core is established it will be like the last time the team was really good, the new kids may have a hard time beating out a player. You seem to see that a rebuild is not something completed with only 4 young players, a bunch of over paid 30 somethings with clause contracts although if the team strikes and uses what it has they could come out on top, the big price is time and it is also a big trading asset. But there are man teams that are younger than the Canucks and just as competitive with way more upside, this group will be aging out similar to the final days of the Sedins. Rouseel = Burrows, Beagle = Hanson, Tanev = Hamhuis, Edler = Edler, Markstrom = Luongo or Schnider plus they have Sutter, Ferland and others, so similar to the decline years. Now your 3 year estimate is a little long, LA, Anaheim, SanJose and even Vegas will have a decline, well Vegas just might outbid the Canucks for Markstrom but the emphasis on youth will put the Canucks just behind Edmonton, maybe even ahead with patience, Calgary and Arizona, they may get a slap this season for pre testing maybe lose a pick, so for the team to make the playoffs in two years should be realistic. I would trade Horvat only because I do believe that losing can become a habit, this has happened before with other teams and he has tremendous value, enough to maybe get two top six players in return over two years and the Boeser example is perhaps even a humanitarian type trade if to where his dad lives. Again his reputation might get 2 top six players in return. I made some effort to go all in with those two as trade assets, the thing is the deals have to be really good or maybe even better for the other teams, like I said, our team would be trading time. The hard to trade players will be around for another couple of years, they will be older and slower but could still mentor younger top players for a couple of seasons, if anything wild like my fantasy happened the team could have two 2020 picks on it next year, playing early hasn't seemed to hurt any of the players doing so now on other teams, if anything those players seem to progressing faster and farther than this team's. True both Hughes, Boeser and Pettersson were not really hurt by waiting but it did allow them a head start on others in the race for rookie of the year, Pettersson and Hughes compete against 18 and 19 year olds so they should be better anyway but the next round can start off right away. I do have to ask though, why would Pettersson get 9 mil for his second contract? He is a RFA so a bridge type deal should be a done deal. And if he gets offended and decides he will not resign at the end his trade value will astronomical and by that time there should be 3 more top six draftee's on board. It is great to have a 100 point guy but two guys getting 50 points can work as well and with half the chance of getting injured and crippling the team. Can you imagine what happens if Eichel gets hurt, that team relies on him too much, hence the Horvat to Buffalo idea. To be fair. Most elite players don’t go the bridge contract route. It’s not like Petterson needs to prove himself. Eichel, Matthews, McDavid all went directly into high dollar contracts with term. Laine took a bridge at $6.75m because he was coming off a down year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted February 10, 2020 Author Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, Tree n Me said: We go neither right nor left. We stay the course. How do you expect to win going forward without Markstrom? Have you checked out how many times we have been widely outshot and Marky has earned two points for us by standing on his head?Take away these points and there is no chance that this is a playoff caliber team. Your suggestion to reward this outstanding effort is to ship him out of town. How would you like it if you busted your ass at work and got shown the door for your efforts? Who would even want to play for the Canucks if they knew they were always one whim away from being traded. Why don't you do your job and let Benning and management do their job? Well, I picked this one to answer to, because of your point about Markstrom IF, we are just winning because Markstrom is keeping us in it, then we have definitely not finished our rebuild, and we are prematurely entering the playoffs..... (I do not necessarily disagree with you, but I feel we are a lot closer than my original post) I am also not an advocate of trading Horvat. I have issues with him, but he is as good as most 2nd line centers. For me, the issues are Size and RHD, but before we go and start moving things around. Benning must get Green to play our young guys. This is a transition year, and before we start making big moves, we need to know what we have. To me, this is an indicator that Benning is not going to make any moves. He thinks he has it already...I disagree. 1st we, need to see what MacEwen and Bailey can do, through more than 1 game......lets see them for 5 games each...... 2ndly, we need to see Rafferty and Juolevi, maybe for less time, but certainly, we need to see them, asap...………... Why? Well, this opens up the possibility of moving guys, and in some cases, not moving guys...………….. IMO...…………...we move Markstrom and Tanev at the deadline...………..Demko has shown enough to convince me, he is a starter Tanev will be replaced, and we will have Tryamkin, Rafferty and ?(trade) to replace him with. TDL...............….1, Chris Tanev ,Jacob Markstrom and Sven Baertschi………for .........(RHD) Ramus Ristolainen, (G) Jonus Johansson and Buffalo's 2nd Spring.........……2. Sign Nikita Tryamkin 2 years @ $3.0 M per Draft...……….....3. Brock Boeser……………for...….(LW) Jordan Greenway($4.0 M) and Minnesota's 2020 1st Draft...…………..4. Eriksson, Madden …….for ……..Ottawa's 2020 2nd Draft...…………..5. Troy Sketcher...………..for a 3rd Summer...………6. Sign Chris Kreider (LW)...…….5 years @ $6.5 M per IN: Ristolainen, Johansson, Tryamkin, Greenway, Kreider = 15.5 Million IN: Minnesota's 2020 1st, Ottawa's 2020 2nd, and Buffalo's 2020 2nd, and the Sketcher 3rd Out: Boeser, Tanev, Markstrom, Eriksson, Schaller, Madden and Baertschi = 25.0 Million Line up Kreider (6'3" 217 lbs) Pettersson (6'2" 176 lbs) Ferland (6'1" 217 lbs) Pearson (6'1" 201 lbs) Horvat (6'0" 215 lbs) Miller (6'1" 218 lbs) Greenway (6'6" 225 lbs) Gaudette (6'1" 170 lbs) Virtanen (6'1" 226 lbs) Leivo (6'2" 192 lbs) Graovac (6'5" 208 lbs) Motte (5'10" 192 lbs) MacEwen *6'3" 205 lbs) Bailey (6'4" 214 lbs) *Sutter, *Roussel, *Beagle Edler (6'3" 212 lbs) Myers (6'8" 229 lbs) Hughes (5'10" 170 lbs) Ristolainen (6'5" 220 lbs) Juolevi (6'2" 183 lbs) Tryamkin (6'8" 265 lbs) Rafferty (6'0" 195 lbs) Fantanburg (6'0" 206 lbs) Demko (6'4" 192 lbs) Johansson (6'4" 205 lbs) Now, what I like about this is that, we get instantly bigger, in Kreider, Greenway, MacEwen, Bailey, Tryamkin and Ristolainen We get younger, in general, and our prospect pool is in tact. Waiting in the wings is Podkolzin, Hoglander, and Lind on forward Defensemen Rathbone and Woo, and goalie DiPietro in goal and the next group of 2020 draft picks...……... This line up works under the cap with Sutter, Roussel and Beagle gone, a small retention or later picks, should move them, and possibly get a small return on them. But I would not hold my breath on any returns. To me this a playoff team, with size and grit. No hiding or shying away...…….that is size, finesse, speed, youth, and attitude! Hey, where did you say Tkachuk is hiding? Edited February 10, 2020 by janisahockeynut 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 4 losses, and everyone is ready to blow the team up and start again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tree n Me Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 4 hours ago, Lazurus said: Then what? do you give up to keep Demko? One of them will be going and in 4 years who is the goalie when Marky hits 35? I heard somewhere he wants a NMC clause already, not enough of that with other players that can't be traded? And his 6+ mil a season salary will impact the team, they will have to jettison the future to make room, none of the clause contract guys are moving and they cannot all be bought out or waited out. So do you let Seattle decide or Vancouver? Lose Demko for nothing and need a goalie for the future or get something for a hot goalie that might improve the team's immediate future now? Each goalie this team has had has taken 3 to 4 years to even get a game in the NHL. Does the team put ll their eggs in DiPetro's basket and hope he matures in 6 years? Or count on Demko's last 4+ plus years of demonstrated skill now? Who do you give the effort to for free? Oh the reward part, don't kid yourself Markstrom will be handsomely rewarded, he will want a 4 or 5 year deal worth 6 mil or more with a clause and he will get it, but this team cannot afford it. Cap hell, Hughes just qualified for ALL his bonuses so deduct another 3 mil off next years cap space. Do you remember the huge fuss about losing Luca Sbisa in the Vegas draft? Some posters felt this might be the beginning of the end for the Canuck franchise. But management had it all figured out. We lost Sbisa and the world went on. The point is that Benning and the rest of the management will undoubtedly have a plan to minimize the impact of the Seattle expansion draft. My personal bet is that we will end up with both goalies after the draft. Markstrom will be resigned to a contract that will cover the time until we are ready to go with a Demko and DiPietro tandem. And who in their right mind would complain about having access to Double Ds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted February 10, 2020 Author Share Posted February 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Ghostsof1915 said: 4 losses, and everyone is ready to blow the team up and start again. No, I don't think that way at all Ghost This team, has the ability to get into the playoffs, when on, they are as good of a team as there is, as we witnessed when they played STL., unfortunately, they are a little light, and we are short (not height, but lack of) in certain positions, it will come one way or another, and that is fine. This is just one of many ways, I suggest we can do it. It is for fun...………….but if we can not or choose not to protect our talent, then things must change. Matt Tkachuk took the world into his hands and changed the energy of a game, by his shear will. I suggest, we need players that will answer that call, not only by fighting, but by hitting, and pushing and answering back...…….that is all! In every cup final I have ever watched, it becomes a game of will, and the will that is stronger, wins. It is done in many ways, and I think we lack that so far. I wish to see that, and have not yet. Warriors come in all shapes and sizes...……….who are ours? That is what this is about...……….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canucks Curse Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 To MIN: Boeser stecher 2020 1st ( and TBay gets our 2021) Juolevi Mcdonaugh To VAN Dumba Zucker 2020 1st Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijibo Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 33 minutes ago, Canucks Curse said: To MIN: Boeser stecher 2020 1st ( and TBay gets our 2021) Juolevi Mcdonaugh To VAN Dumba Zucker 2020 1st Not going to comment on value. But Tampa gets Vancouvers 1st this year unless Vancouver misses the playoffs. Are you assuming the Canucks are going to blow it and miss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazurus Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 11 hours ago, Tree n Me said: Do you remember the huge fuss about losing Luca Sbisa in the Vegas draft? Some posters felt this might be the beginning of the end for the Canuck franchise. But management had it all figured out. We lost Sbisa and the world went on. The point is that Benning and the rest of the management will undoubtedly have a plan to minimize the impact of the Seattle expansion draft. My personal bet is that we will end up with both goalies after the draft. Markstrom will be resigned to a contract that will cover the time until we are ready to go with a Demko and DiPietro tandem. And who in their right mind would complain about having access to Double Ds? Sbisa a big loss? No I don't remember doom and gloom around that but then losing a dman vs a starting goalie is vastly different. Sbisa was no big deal there are tons of defensemen available every season but few top quality goaltenders, just look around the league this year, you think there are 8 teams that might like an upgrade? The position is so important that the rule states one goalie MUST be exposed, the rest can be the team's choice. Like I said, Seattle will dictate how much it will cost Vancouver to keep Demko. And they will want him, only a couple of hours north of his home and family without a border to cross. The Canucks would not even be able to trade Demko to them, but Seattle might like a few picks not to take him, so yes your vision of Demko an DiPietro being the tandem in 4 years could happen, at the cost of more of the Canucks future. But trading Markstrom now, adds to the future, adds cap space, retains Demko and at 24 he is ready to start more NHL games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 10 hours ago, Canucks Curse said: To MIN: Boeser stecher 2020 1st ( and TBay gets our 2021) Juolevi Mcdonaugh To VAN Dumba Zucker 2020 1st We give up a lot here. And all we get back is an elephant with big ears, and a Sucker, who got eats fists? Just say NO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lazurus Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 (edited) On 2/9/2020 at 6:44 PM, Ghostsof1915 said: 4 losses, and everyone is ready to blow the team up and start again. Not really, just accepting that the team still needs to finish a rebuild, by trading Boeser the team gets more younger and bigger players for playoff hockey. You know the team is not that much younger or loaded with enough young high skill players. This is just a hockey trade, a big one, but still a hockey trade. On 2/9/2020 at 10:09 PM, qwijibo said: Not going to comment on value. But Tampa gets Vancouvers 1st this year unless Vancouver misses the playoffs. Are you assuming the Canucks are going to blow it and miss? There is no guarantee the team makes the playoffs this year, an injury to Horvat, Miller, Edler, Tanev or Markstrom could derail a playoff spot. The team has built up some wiggle room but lose 4 in a row or 4 more and they can go to 20th in the league and on the outside looking in fast. The team has no real cap space or trade assets to add at the TDL unless they trade away more draft picks or high end prospects that a lot of fans think are sure things for the future team. The Horvat suggestion comes from seeing him starting to show more and more frustration and that comment he made about losing so much, it could be getting to him and Buffalo is going to make a big move soon, so why not if this team gets more picks, better defense and truly younger. Edited February 11, 2020 by Lazurus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 17 hours ago, Lazurus said: A thoughtful piece. But not deep enough. Past experience with the people that make decisions show that some of what you post may beyond them. Personally I don't think Pettersson's next contract should be more than 7.5 taking him to year short of FA, something like Boeser's where the last year is huge so a qualifying offer equals a substantial raise. The idea of maybe having to trade a key player, Horvat or Boeser has to be considered for the right price. What is forgotten is that this is a rebuilding team, so much hype on all the young players, all 4 of them, there need to be more and not hopefuls that are not playing. Find out if necessary, and I don't think they need to, I think they already know and are just delaying the bad news, what Juolevi is, he may be worth more as a trade asset that still has potential rather than a player that can bump a player off this team. This GM would not want to have him show up as a bust especially as so many players taken after him are now stars in the league. Horvat might be getting antsy and depressed watching his career peter away losing, he has only experienced one partial winning season and over 4 seasons of pretty dismal results. Boeser might be damaged goods after his wrist injury, certainly he is not the type of player this team is trying to create, a first guy in boards guy and he is not really a finesse player, he is a trigger man that has not been even hitting the net or overwhelming goalies since his surgery but his reputation is still intact and his value,especially to a team like Minnesota, extremely high. Could you imagine the fan faithful in Minnesota hearing that he was available and they passed him up. A team like Buffalo, where their young players are getting tired of losing might make a strong deal for Horvat and his leadership. One thing to note that not many post here is the make up of cup contenders and winners, up and coming teams have 10 to 14 players in a 4 year age group with their stars, established teams like Washington take on a couple of young guys, more than the Canucks do in some cases. To Minn. - Boeser, Stecher and 2020 3rd & 4th round picks - minus 9+mil in cap hit To Van - Minn 2020 1rst, Dumba and Greenway - add 7+mil 2 mil more capspace To Buffalo - Horvat, Markstrom, a couple of 2nd round picks 2020 and 2022 and Juolevi - minus 9 mil cap hit maybe some retention to make it fit To Van - 2020 1rst round pick, conditional (if top five the Canuck add a future 1rst 2022/23 instead of two 2nds or something else) Ristolainen, Hutton and Dylan Cozen's. If Markstrom resigns with them or they make the playoffs conditions are added. Just these three dealt would leave Pettersson, Miller, Virtanen/Greenway (6'6") Guadette, Pearson, Virtanen/Greenway/ Cozens (6'3") And the rest of the bottom six Ristolainen (6'4") - Myers (6'8") Edler (6'3") - Tanev (6'2")/ Dumba (6') Hughes (5'9") - Rafferty (6'2") and or Tryamkin (6'7") when signed as the 7 defensemen Demko as the starter with Hutton as the backup and exposed Increase the size of the defense and forwards, reduce the cap hit hell coming and still leave Tanev as a trade chip at the TDL and 12 to 14 players all with 3 or 4 years of each other. 3 first round picks over the next two years making up for the one traded away Either 3 this year, in a very good draft year or 2 this year and one next year, either way it completes the rebuild, creates cap space, reduces exposure to key players and will probably mean playoffs next year and getting ahead of other rebuilding teams so this team isn't chasing behind. Buffalo gets improved goal tending, additional leadership (Horvat is closer to home and happier) and a center to check Taveras and they keep their core young players if anything they add to it, with Dahlin taking a step next year. A decision between Markstrom or Demko going forward needs to be decided or Seattle could rape the team with the mere threat or silence of taking either one, better to make that decision on the team's own grounds and plan around it now. That would make one of them trade assets now while the season is going in Markstrom's case. He has hinted that he will want a clause contract and that could mean exposing a younger and future of the team goalie, Demko. To keep him what would Vancouver give Seattle not to take him? Seattle could just about dictate the terms, and they may not really even need him. It is a vulnerability that can be solved. Trading Markstrom between now and the TDL would solve many issues, a trade with conditions if he resigns with that team to enhance the return, no need to spend time negotiating with his agent freeing up time to plan out other trade deals, allows for more cap certainty and expansion problems. Demko should be at the point of stretching out his experience for the last 20 games or so, he handled a bigger load in Utica. There would be many teams in on Markstrom and he would be the premiere goalie on the TDL market as he is a starter and would not be a rental backup. Maybe gets a backup and pick in return. Add 2+ million into the cap space next season. The thing about 1rst round picks is every 10 the odds of success go down so 1 to 10 are historically, going from 2009 to 2018 extremely high something in the 97% sure things, there have been only three bombs in those numbers so having the additional picks almost insures two more NHL players and the team gets Cozens, almost another 1rst. 11 to 20 are in the 75 to 80% range, some years are much better than others, some as low as 50% and some 100% but none under 50%. Part One. Wow! It’s interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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