TDL Strategy; Think Now, or Look Ahead?

[IBatch]

56 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Not really. His KHL team just needs to release him from his contract when his season is done. Which happens frequently. That's it. It's really not as complicated or unlikely as you're making it out to be. And it doesn't involve either league rewriting their agreements (or wording re: adding players at playoff time) which is something odd you keep trumpeting.

I guess the writers at THN and a few other places that have some interest in the subject are wrong. " Tryamkin contact is set to expire April 30, that's after the last game of the regular season and he won't be eligible to play in the playoffs.  The earliest he could return to the Canucks is in the 2020-2021 regular season".   

 

Expecting his team to void his contract before he's finished is hilariously delusional.   Why would they do that?

 

Edit: please educate me on the list of players that have frequently done this and come to play in the playoffs after the KHL regular season is up.   I recall one - the NSH star who left and came back.  Don't remember exactly what happened but I'm pretty sure it was short lived.   Rules and agreements have changed since then too - looking forward to your reply. 

Edited February 15, 2020 by IBatch

[Viper007]

37 minutes ago, IBatch said:

I guess the writers at THN and a few other places that have some interest in the subject are wrong. " Tryamkin contact is set to expire April 30, that's after the last game of the regular season and he won't be eligible to play in the playoffs.  The earliest he could return to the Canucks is in the 2020-2021 regular season".   

 

Expecting his team to void his contract before he's finished is hilariously delusional.   Why would they do that?

 

Edit: please educate me on the list of players that have frequently done this and come to play in the playoffs after the KHL regular season is up.   I recall one - the NSH star who left and came back.  Don't remember exactly what happened but I'm pretty sure it was short lived.   Rules and agreements have changed since then too - looking forward to your reply. 

Isn't there a rule in the NHL that says if a player isn't signed before Jan 1 they're ineligible to play in the playoffs or something like that?

[Viper007]

7 minutes ago, Viper007 said:

Isn't there a rule in the NHL that says if a player isn't signed before Jan 1 they're ineligible to play in the playoffs or something like that?

Might be March 1. not Jan 1

[stawns]

People should be prepared for little to no activity by JB at the deadline, which is the right move, imo.

[Smashian Kassian]

18 hours ago, Nuxfanabroad said:

 

1- An argument can be made that the 2020 crop is so good, the worst-case(missing PO's), might benefit the roster even more, long term.

Do you worry about gifting a top pick(to TBay) next season, becoming an unnecessary distraction?

 

2- With an ED approaching(spring 2021), a team could get further benefit, from making earlier, proactive moves.

 

3- We shift some late-season, depth-responsibility to younger bottom-6 types(eg: Bailey, Big Mac, as opposed to established names), should more injuries surface.

 

4- IF JB knows NT is returning, could we risk selling a D, if the return at deadline is appreciably boosted a notch(or 2)?

 

5- IF deadline prices are low, it might be a good time to buy one desirable piece(eg: we sell 3 or 4 assets in such a deal)..simply because this deadline is cheaper, relative to past seasons.

 

 

#1. Best thing's for this young core to get playoff experience. Then we've moved on from the 1st we gave up too

 

#2. This is a good point. Although our ED situation revolves around the goaltenders & we can't trade Demko if we don't have Markstrom signed.

 

#3. I'd be in favour of acquiring some muscle, like a Simmonds or Miles Wood type.

 

#4. Who knows if NT is even an NHL player. I wouldnt be trading players to 'make room' for him yet.

 

#5. All depends on what's available & the cost. This would be someone with term I'm assuming (otherwise why do it?), so what do we have to give up? And how does it affect our cap?

[Provost]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

I guess the writers at THN and a few other places that have some interest in the subject are wrong. " Tryamkin contact is set to expire April 30, that's after the last game of the regular season and he won't be eligible to play in the playoffs.  The earliest he could return to the Canucks is in the 2020-2021 regular season".   

 

Expecting his team to void his contract before he's finished is hilariously delusional.   Why would they do that?

I have a very good example of a player who had their contract terminated early by his KHL team when they were done and came to play in the NHL mere days later (well before April 30th).

 

Tryamkin.

 

That is literally exactly what happened last time with him.  It was even the same KHL team that he is playing for now.

 

Hilariously delusional...

 

He is on our reserve list so is not only eligible to play regular season games this season, but also in the playoffs.

 

 

Edited February 15, 2020 by Provost

[Viper007]

3 minutes ago, Provost said:

I have a very good example of a player who had their contract terminated early by his KHL team when they were done and came to play in the NHL mere days later (well before April 30th).

 

Tryamkin.

 

That is literally exactly what happened last time with him.  It was even the same KHL team that he is playing for now.

 

Hilariously delusional...

 

He is on our reserve list and loaned out so is not only eligible to play regular season games this season, but also in the playoffs.

 

 

I don't think it's considered a loan if they're not under contract by the team.

[Provost]

5 minutes ago, Viper007 said:

I don't think it's considered a loan if they're not under contract by the team.

Ya, loaned out wouldn’t be the right actual CBA term... 

 

He is eligible to play because he is on our reserve list.  NCAA players can too, even if they weren’t signed to NHL contracts before the deadline.

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

I guess the writers at THN and a few other places that have some interest in the subject are wrong. " Tryamkin contact is set to expire April 30, that's after the last game of the regular season and he won't be eligible to play in the playoffs.  The earliest he could return to the Canucks is in the 2020-2021 regular season".   

 

Expecting his team to void his contract before he's finished is hilariously delusional.   Why would they do that?

 

Edit: please educate me on the list of players that have frequently done this and come to play in the playoffs after the KHL regular season is up.   I recall one - the NSH star who left and came back.  Don't remember exactly what happened but I'm pretty sure it was short lived.   Rules and agreements have changed since then too - looking forward to your reply. 

They are wrong. He's on our reserve list and eligible to play in the playoffs. 

 

As @Provost noted, Tryamkin himself did this a few years ago.

 

Their season is over, why wouldn't they void it, just like they did a few years ago?

 

9 minutes ago, Viper007 said:

I don't think it's considered a loan if they're not under contract by the team.

 

46 minutes ago, Viper007 said:

Isn't there a rule in the NHL that says if a player isn't signed before Jan 1 they're ineligible to play in the playoffs or something like that?

We own his NHL rights. He's on our reserve list. He's eligible to play in the playoffs.

 

What we can't do is sign a UFA, whose rights we don't own, and isn't on our reserve list, after the TDL, to play in the playoffs.

Edited February 15, 2020 by aGENT

[IBatch]

20 minutes ago, aGENT said:

They are wrong. He's on our reserve list and eligible to play in the playoffs. 

 

As @Provost noted, Tryamkin himself did this a few years ago.

 

Their season is over, why wouldn't they void it, just like they did a few years ago?

 

 

We own his NHL rights. He's on our reserve list. He's eligible to play in the playoffs.

 

What we can't do is sign a UFA, whose rights we don't own, and isn't on our reserve list, after the TDL, to play in the playoffs.

Ok I give up you right.  Still waiting on the other players that have "frequently" done this.   I'm not holding my breath.  If you and others want to continue on this idea that we will trade Stetcher or just sign Tryamkin somehow between the end of his season and before the playoffs start that's ok.   It's not going to happen. 

 

Edit:  virtually all that I can find that has been written about his return this year has been about next season.   A few writers have included that he's NOT  eligible for the playoffs as well - guess according to you - they didn't do their homework.  

Edited February 15, 2020 by IBatch

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

Ok I give up you right.  Still waiting on the other players that have "frequently" done this.   I'm not holding my breath.  If you and others want to continue on this idea that we will trade Stetcher or just sign Tryamkin somehow between the end of his season and before the playoffs start that's ok.   It's not going to happen. 

Don't have to trade anyone and I've said numerous times that I have no idea if Tryamkin will sign here this year (or next). I have no skin in the game and am happy to just sit back and see what happens.

 

But the facts are, given that we own his rights and he's on our reserve list, he quite easily could sign here and play in the playoffs should his KHL team release him after his season is over and we sign him to a contract.

 

The information you keep posting about league agreements playoff ineligibility are not correct and do not apply.

 

If we didn't own his rights and have him on our reserve list, they would. We do. They don't.

[Got the Babych]

I say look ahead. This team has been exciting and there have been a lot of positives, but it's still going to take a bold move to get to the next level. Definitely don't want to see any rentals or depth players. 

I'd be open to some short term pain for a major piece for the future.

I feel like we are going to lose a goalie in the next couple of years, so should consider getting something while the value is high. 

Purely hypothetical, but if you could trade Marky or Demko for a youngish top pairing D-Man would you do it?

[IBatch]

2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Don't have to trade anyone and I've said numerous times that I have no idea if Tryamkin will sign here this year (or next). I have no skin in the game and am happy to just sit back and see what happens.

 

But the facts are, given that we own his rights and he's on our reserve list, he quite easily could sign here and play in the playoffs should his KHL team release him after his season is over and we sign him to a contract.

 

The information you keep posting about league agreements playoff ineligibility are not correct and do not apply.

 

If we didn't own his rights and have him on our reserve list, they would. We do. They don't.

Well maybe spend more time and read what has been said on the topic.   He's not coming to play with us this year - that's been confirmed by both his agent and JB.   Whatever semantics regarding the legality of it is mute.  I've never said it is impossible - what I'm saying is it isn't going to happen.   

[mll]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

Ok I give up you right.  Still waiting on the other players that have "frequently" done this.   I'm not holding my breath.  If you and others want to continue on this idea that we will trade Stetcher or just sign Tryamkin somehow between the end of his season and before the playoffs start that's ok.   It's not going to happen. 

Gusev and Tolvanen came from the KHL after their post-season ended.  

 

Gusev signed his ELC on 14 April 2019 with Vegas - he could have played in the post-season but didn't get into a game.  Tolvanen signed his ELC on 29 March 2018 and actually got into 3 NHL regular season games.  

[Provost]

10 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Ok I give up you right.  Still waiting on the other players that have "frequently" done this.   I'm not holding my breath.  If you and others want to continue on this idea that we will trade Stetcher or just sign Tryamkin somehow between the end of his season and before the playoffs start that's ok.   It's not going to happen. 

 

Edit:  virtually all that I can find that has been written about his return this year has been about next season.   A few writers have included that he's NOT  eligible for the playoffs as well - guess according to you - they didn't do their homework.  

Well since we have already done a bunch of work for you to correct your misunderstanding... why don’t you provide your sources that say he isn’t eligible for the playoffs.

 

Don’t bother to include the one that is already proven wrong by Tryamkin last own previous situation.

[Alflives]

8 minutes ago, Got the Babych said:

I say look ahead. This team has been exciting and there have been a lot of positives, but it's still going to take a bold move to get to the next level. Definitely don't want to see any rentals or depth players. 

I'd be open to some short term pain for a major piece for the future.

I feel like we are going to lose a goalie in the next couple of years, so should consider getting something while the value is high. 

Purely hypothetical, but if you could trade Marky or Demko for a youngish top pairing D-Man would you do it?

Not Marky, but Demko for sure ... at this coming 2020 draft.  After this season would you do Demko for Ristolainen?  

[Provost]

5 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Well maybe spend more time and read what has been said on the topic.   He's not coming to play with us this year - that's been confirmed by both his agent and JB.   Whatever semantics regarding the legality of it is mute.  I've never said it is impossible - what I'm saying is it isn't going to happen.   

You did say he wasn’t eligible to sign with us until next season, that was literally your entire point.

 

Please cite where his agent and JB said he wasn’t going to play here this year.

 

Benning clearly recently said, he would talk to Tryamkin’s agent after HIS season was done.

 

Who knows if he ends up signing with us.  He could and he might.  He also might not.  That is entirely different than your point of him not being able to or the sides saying he won’t.

[aGENT]

5 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Well maybe spend more time and read what has been said on the topic.   He's not coming to play with us this year - that's been confirmed by both his agent and JB.   Whatever semantics regarding the legality of it is mute.  I've never said it is impossible - what I'm saying is it isn't going to happen.   

The entire point of my original post this week and whenever it was you did this the last few weeks, was to correct your spreading of misinformation regarding his playoff eligibility and your issue with league agreements (that don't particularly apply given his contact will effectively be done).

 

I don't really care what your opinion is on what actually happens with him this year. Like I said, no skin in the game. Just stop spreading misinformation.

 

And Benning actually recently confirmed he's on our reserve list and eligible to play in the playoffs should the appropriate circumstances transpire. Whether they do or not is another discussion.

[Got the Babych]

19 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Not Marky, but Demko for sure ... at this coming 2020 draft.  After this season would you do Demko for Ristolainen?  

It would be painful, but yes I think I would. Another top D-Man, more than anything else, will push us into the "elite" conversation. IMHO.

Edited February 15, 2020 by Got the Babych

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, Got the Babych said:

It would be painful, but yes I think I would. Another top D-Man, more than anything else, will push us into the "elite" conversation. IMHO.

Do the Sabres currently have a decent goalie who is on a good contract?  If so, would you do (right now) Demko + Stecher for Risto + that goalie?  Or, is that Coyote level of getting Hall (during the season while they were in first) stupid?