[PGT] Anaheim Ducks at Vancouver Canucks | Feb. 16, 2020

[SILLY GOOSE 6,836]

9 minutes ago, Alflives said:

We give up more shots than only the worst bottom feeding teams like Detroit and Jersey.  It’s not only one game; it’s all the games.  Our coaching is teaching our guys to be passive and reactionary instead being aggressive and initiating.  

We need smarter systems that are best for our group.  Our group of players are a lot better than this coaching allows them to show.  

Being outshot in and of itself isn't a big deal but the quality of chances is important.   I don't disagree there can/needs to be improvement, but I'll agree to disagree with the systems comment.  This team playing a much more aggressive defensive scheme would probably result in even worse outcomes.

Edited February 18, 2020 by SILLY GOOSE

[Viper007 1,058]

Just now, SILLY GOOSE said:

Being outshot in and of itself isn't a big deal but the quality of chances.   I don't disagree there can/needs to be improvement, but I'll agree to disagree with the systems comment.  This team playing a much more aggressive defensive scheme would probably result in even worse outcomes.

What's funny is people complaining about being outshot, yet when we outshoot the Ducks, we lose.  I will always take being outshot and winning over outshooting the opponent and losing.

[SILLY GOOSE 6,836]

15 minutes ago, DIBdaQUIB said:

Maybe they will find another gear. I hope so because lately they look gassed and disconnected.   It better be fast or they  could easily find themselves well outside of the playoffs in just a matter of a week or two and they dont have the horses to make up a lot of points.

I think everyone agrees with you.  I'd hate to see a meltdown.  They've worked hard to get to this point so far.

[Alflives 33,529]

1 minute ago, SILLY GOOSE said:

Being outshot in and of itself isn't a big deal but the quality of chances is important.   I don't disagree there can/needs to be improvement, but I'll agree to disagree with the systems comment.  This team playing a much more aggressive defensive scheme would probably result in even worse outcomes.

Less shots means less possession.  That means we end up chasing, which is passive.  

[SILLY GOOSE 6,836]

Just now, Viper007 said:

What's funny is people complaining about being outshot, yet when we outshoot the Ducks, we lose.  I will always take being outshot and winning over outshooting the opponent and losing.

I get why people view it as a disturbing trend.  If you can keep shots down AND keep scoring chances low that's a good sign.  

 

To your point, I'll watch periods where the Canucks are competitive/right there in the fight but not generating a lot of shots/chances.  People will say they are playing like garbage though.  

[SILLY GOOSE 6,836]

6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Less shots means less possession.  That means we end up chasing, which is passive.  

By no means is this a perfect team Alf.  There's a lot of young guys (like Gaudette) who will improve quite a bit, and be difference makers in their zone, and older vets that when gone might give the team a different look defensively as well.  

[PhillipBlunt 46,981]

36 minutes ago, Trebreh said:

the Lames get 4 ez points from the Ducks in a week span. 

 

why couldn't we have played with some hunger i do not know. we had a chance to put a strangle hold on the division and we pissed it away with the losses to Minny and Anaheim... 

 

what a terrible out of town score board for us today.  

The Flames are much better suited to manage the Ducks physical game than the Canucks are. Even without their captain, they play with a bit more purpose. 

[Alflives 33,529]

1 minute ago, SILLY GOOSE said:

By no means is this a perfect team Alf.  There's a lot of young guys (like Gaudette) who will improve quite a bit, and be difference makers in their zone, and older vets that when gone might give the team a different look defensively as well.  

IMO we have good players and a couple phenoms too.  We are a great face off team.  We start with the puck s lot.  Our players are coached to give up possession though, and then we chase the play.  The system is not good for our group.  

[IBatch 10,406]

54 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Less shots means less possession.  That means we end up chasing, which is passive.  

PIT is probably the best example of the "rope a dope" counter-attack style of play some teams instill into their systems (usually because they have a bad/average defense but skilled forwards - TO also has been doing this)...CHI and LA were top possession teams - PIT was 16th their first cup and marginally better the following year despite losing Letang.

 

 

Possession is important but far from everything.    Back-to back PIT cups changed things, as a result smaller faster and more skilled players became more of a priority- and JB was an early adopter if not ahead of the curve and possession (wow imagine a whole 5% more possession between a good and average team) has become passé ..: at least had lost a lot of lustre and the tradionalists (the guys that watch the games and aren't just looking at stats) appeared to be right (too?). 

 

St Louis wins another cup and it will be back to well rounded guys with size again.   That would be ok in my books. 

 

Of course we can't be a bottom possession team and expect to go anywhere - and don't think going full trap will be fun to watch and win us more games with this defense.  Hard to do that anyways with interference no longer allowed.    Agree we need to find a balance. 

 

Bottom line is we need to get back to winning.   Team appears gassed right now .... need them to find their second wind and quick. 

[Alflives 33,529]

3 minutes ago, IBatch said:

PIT is probably the best example of the "rope a dope" counter-attack style of play some teams instill into their systems (usually because they have a bad/average defense but skilled forwards - TO also has been doing this)...CHI and LA were top possession teams - PIT was 16th their first cup and marginally better the following year despite losing Letang.

 

 

Possession is important but far from everything.    Back-to back PIT cups changed things, as a result smaller faster and more skilled players became more of a priority- and JB was an early adopter if not ahead of the curve and possession (wow imagine a whole 5% more possession between a good and average team) has become passé ..: at least had lost a lot of lustre and the tradionalists (the guys that watch the games and aren't just looking at stats) appeared to be right (too?). 

 

St Louis wins another cup and it will be back to well rounded guys with size again.   That would be ok in my books. 

 

Of course we can't be a bottom possession team and expect to go anywhere - and don't think going full trap will be fun to watch and win us more games with this defense.  Hard to do that anyways with interference no longer allowed.    Agree we need to find a balance. 

 

Bottom line is we need to get back to winning.   Team appears gassed right now .... need them to find their second wind and quick. 

Rope a dope is what we should do.  Trap and counter.  We bleed shots and chase the game,  that’s way different than what top coached teams do.  

[LateNightBus 141]

1 hour ago, PhillipBlunt said:

The Flames are much better suited to manage the Ducks physical game than the Canucks are. Even without their captain, they play with a bit more purpose. 

Well The Canucks are now  3rd in the Pacific.

[IBatch 10,406]

1 hour ago, SILLY GOOSE said:

proDBeing outshot in and of itself isn't a big deal but the quality of chances is important.   I don't disagree there can/needs to be improvement, but I'll agree to disagree with the systems comment.  This team playing a much more aggressive defensive scheme would probably result in even worse outcomes.

That's my worry too.  These guys are professionals playing/working at the highest level and biggest stage in the world, im sure there is a lot better data available then what we see - even just in practice days and how players react to both home and road games and a thousand other details that we have little to no clue about - what's going on in each players. body and mind inlcuded, depth and systems in Utica too.  

 

Not to be totally ignorant of what's going on - but I definitely am not naive enough to pretend I do know even half of them and that my suggestions can or will make a difference.    The team is playing this system for a reason....a different one won't necessarily make things better, and my worry is reeling it in with this group would produce a worse outcome too.  

[IBatch 10,406]

17 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Rope a dope is what we should do.  Trap and counter.  We bleed shots and chase the game,  that’s way different than what top coached teams do.  

They purposely allow them to enter their zone, give them a low percentage shot - regain possession and break out better then anyone (PIT) and it's worked for years - however it screws with their possession stats as they don't rush to get it back rather pick their spots.   

 

We do the same thing but allow too many shots and sometimes look like spazzes out there trying to get it back - and then give it right back with dump and chase which increases zone time and reduces their counter-attack...but would be nice to see some crisp PP like passes 5 x 5 more often ... When it works it's hard to beat.  Hasn't been working lately so expect it will again spoon and everyone will be happy again...well mostly.   

 

Not sure what they should do - but do know they know better then me what system works best with this group.   Don't think they've found the exact style yet but definitely have a large part of it down ... hopefully more time will iron out some kinks....if not you could be getting your wish sooner then later...

[IBatch 10,406]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Less shots means less possession.  That means we end up chasing, which is passive.  

I hate the fox puck -  but one thing it's going to do is provide so much more data then ever before and could make some advanced stats extinct.   The theory is you have the puck on your stick more if you create more shots (Corsi and Fenwick) ...zone time is also tracked fairly well too.   However the shot count is far from absolute as far as possession goes.  When Orr used to rag the puck for two minutes during a penalty there was zero shots either way for example, and he could do it all in his own zone...to a lesser degree same goes for quite a few players in the game now too including our very own QH and to an extent EP.   In a few years we will know exactly how long each team had the puck for, and I'm sure some games the team with less total shots on the net will have the puck more - which by definition is possession.   Will be interesting to see for sure - just better not EVER show the trail or pop-up names on my TV during the actual game.   Replays fine ... 

Edited February 18, 2020 by IBatch

[AbrasiveAjax 456]

12 hours ago, rychicken said:

Stecher is a 7th D at best on most cup contending teams.

But he is on our team right?

[HorvatToBaertschi 1,204]

14 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

I hate to say it but I'm pretty sure this is Stecher's last season as a Canuck. He's been invisible the entire season and given that the Canucks need another top D, I suspect he'll be the one on the short end of the stick.

I honesty think Stecher has been having a great season this year. Guy’s never been noticeable defensively, which is a good thing. He clears the crease (somehow), fights for every loose puck and usually gets the puck out. Something Tanev was known for, not being noticed. However, last game was his worst ever in the NHL (imo), and I’m sure he’ll want to turn things around right away. He’s a hard worker playing for his hometown team and living the best life he could have ever imagined. I’m positive he wants to stay with us no matter what it takes. I expect a huge outing next game from him. 

[Timråfan 642]

19 hours ago, smithers joe said:

the last game i watched,  all of the canucks  were  a step slower than anaheim. that afforded anaheim the space and good chances to score. demko was put in tough situations often. i don’t blame demko or the coach. the team simply didn’t have their legs. i’ve coached enough hockey to know, when your players don’t have their legs, there is nothing you can do about it.  alf might, but i couldn’t  electric shocks, cattle prods? if one player hasn’t got it, you can bench him, when the whole, minus hughes hasn’t got it, you can’t bench them all.  anyone who believed that we would be the strongest team going into the playoffs has stars in their eyes. 

watching that game, i saw the guys working hard and trying. they all wanted to win. unfortunately they didn’t have the jump. 

i wish the team luck against minny. there will not be any easy games from here on out. if they win enough games, they are in, if not they miss. nothing is garenteed. 

Psychology is the key.

Benning and Green seems to lack that key element of hockey. 

Alf is on to one part of the psychology equation. 

Leadership is tough nowadays. You have to know a lot about your players and read every signal they send. 

[MystifyNCrucify 678]

I dont get it. This is legal for manson? Either its instigation or third man in no?

 

[RU SERIOUS 677]

On 2/17/2020 at 1:16 PM, AbrasiveAjax said:

He may end up somewhere else but are you blind? Invisible?? Stech hustlers and works his ass off every shift out there and gives his best every game.

 

Is he undersized and out muscled at times? Perhaps but dude pick on someone else to blame.

IMHO

 

Go Canucks go

He's still going to be gone after this season.