Tyler Toffoli | #73 | RW/LW

[Captain Canuck #12]

39 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

Benning is smart to edit and see what Toffoli actually adds to the lineup before committing cap and term to him. 

You'd be smart to edit too! 

[N4ZZY]

On 6/17/2020 at 7:40 AM, nergish said:

Agreed.

He may very well settle into that second-line role (I really like the optics of that), but letting him sit head of the table with Petey and JT was a good morale move.

If Toffoli can find another gear, maybe he can be a legitimate first-line player? He's an even better goalscorer than I thought, from what I've seen of him in Canucks colours.

 

It kinda comes down to Brock Boeser. If he's been rested and that wrist is ready to grip-n-rip, hard to say what Green ends up doing. 

I like the options though.

 

I guess my point is more... look at this talented young team and tell me you don't want to be a part of it.

Yeah. I think that definitely has to be the pitch from Benning and his team, no? 

 

"Toff, you could be a part of something special here in Van..." 

 

[Pete M]

Cracks me up every time when I see JTM9, EP40, TT73 listed as the Canucks second line.

[-AJ-]

15 minutes ago, Pete M said:

Cracks me up every time when I see JTM9, EP40, TT73 listed as the Canucks second line.

I have no idea why this was displayed as the case so often last year. Even when Boeser was healthy and on the line, it was often labeled as the second line. It's almost as though they felt the captain's line had to be the first line or something.

[lmm]

3 hours ago, Pete M said:

Cracks me up every time when I see JTM9, EP40, TT73 listed as the Canucks second line.

 

On 7/7/2020 at 11:44 PM, N4ZZY said:

Yeah. I think that definitely has to be the pitch from Benning and his team, no? 

 

"Toff, you could be a part of something special here in Van..." 

 

 

3 hours ago, Pete M said:

Cracks me up every time when I see JTM9, EP40, TT73 listed as the Canucks second line.

Cracks me up every time I see someone say they think an NHL GM is going to negotiate using the "YOu could be part of something special" tactic.

 

Can anyone seriously imagine any GM saying that if contract negotiation??

remember, it is a GM talking to an agENT

[D-Money]

2 hours ago, lmm said:

Cracks me up every time I see someone say they think an NHL GM is going to negotiate using the "YOu could be part of something special" tactic.

 

Can anyone seriously imagine any GM saying that if contract negotiation??

remember, it is a GM talking to an agENT

It might work short-term on some teams. Tampa, for instance. Don’t think Shattenkirk is playing for $1.75M and Maroon for $900K because those were the highest bids.

 

But Vancouver hasn’t won a playoff series since 2011. And this calendar year Canucks were dropping like a stone in the standings (with Markstrom out, then Boeser). Toffoli didn’t actually experience much winning since he got here. Sure, we can project that the team will get better, but they have quite a ways before anyone will be able to confidently say that the team is or even will be “something special”.

 

I’ll be more interested in seeing how many free agents take 1-year deals at discounts with Canadian teams, simply to keep their family out of the US while the pandemic continues to run wild there.

[HockeyHarry]

I like how Toffoli been on the Canucks. He been great so far this season on the Canucks. Next season tho?

 

its a contract year and we have seen Toffoli so far this season at his very, very  best and not his norm. He was a healthy scratch on a bad Kings team earlier this season and hes been a very very streaky point getter with long periods of zero points...thats His norm.

 

if Jimbo is thinking of resigning him i hope its not for much as i do see Toffoli going back to his norm after a contract is signed. 

Canuck dont need another bad contract.

[ruilin96]

23 minutes ago, HockeyHarry said:

I like how Toffoli been on the Canucks. He been great so far this season on the Canucks. Next season tho?

 

its a contract year and we have seen Toffoli so far this season at his very, very  best and not his norm. He was a healthy scratch on a bad Kings team earlier this season and hes been a very very streaky point getter with long periods of zero points...thats His norm.

 

if Jimbo is thinking of resigning him i hope its not for much as i do see Toffoli going back to his norm after a contract is signed. 

Canuck dont need another bad contract.

Toffoli has always played in a defense first and tight checking system in LA, he has never played in a free flowing, high octane offense environment until he got traded here. I think his offensive input would still be better than his time with the Kings, but won't be as good as his post-TDL 10-games stint with the Canucks. I think Toffoli is more like a 25+ goal scorer scoring around 55-60 points if he is on the Canucks and gets to play consistently with EP and JT. If he plays with Horvat and Pearson, that line will have more defensive responsibilities and his production may drop slightly.

 

But i do agree the Canucks don't need another bad contact, so it all depends on the cap hit and term.

[lmm]

12 hours ago, D-Money said:

It might work short-term on some teams. Tampa, for instance. Don’t think Shattenkirk is playing for $1.75M and Maroon for $900K because those were the highest bids.

 

But Vancouver hasn’t won a playoff series since 2011. And this calendar year Canucks were dropping like a stone in the standings (with Markstrom out, then Boeser). Toffoli didn’t actually experience much winning since he got here. Sure, we can project that the team will get better, but they have quite a ways before anyone will be able to confidently say that the team is or even will be “something special”.

 

I’ll be more interested in seeing how many free agents take 1-year deals at discounts with Canadian teams, simply to keep their family out of the US while the pandemic continues to run wild there.

It is more the "sales pitch" aspect that i find funny.

So many fans talk about "Home town Discount" not realizing that players like Chris Tanev come from Toronto, etc.

I know players will make concessions soemtimes to play in a certain city, as Dan Hamhuis did here,

but the closest I recall to a sales pitch was when Jim tried to woo Lucic to Vancouver. 

It failed and Luc went to Edmonton instead. No loss really, but he was not looking to take a discount either way.

 

I think there is a big difference between a guy wanting to go somewhere and a GM/fanbase asking for concessions.

 

And yes I could see a lot of guys taking contracts with leagues that do not cross borders on a short term deal

 

 

Edited July 10, 2020 by lmm

[BoKnows]

 

[khay]

On 7/10/2020 at 11:31 AM, ruilin96 said:

Toffoli has always played in a defense first and tight checking system in LA, he has never played in a free flowing, high octane offense environment until he got traded here. I think his offensive input would still be better than his time with the Kings, but won't be as good as his post-TDL 10-games stint with the Canucks. I think Toffoli is more like a 25+ goal scorer scoring around 55-60 points if he is on the Canucks and gets to play consistently with EP and JT. If he plays with Horvat and Pearson, that line will have more defensive responsibilities and his production may drop slightly.

 

But i do agree the Canucks don't need another bad contact, so it all depends on the cap hit and term.

Yeah, honestly I'm a bit torn regarding Toffoli.

 

On one hand, he might become a PPG, 30+ goal scorer like JT. Prior to coming here, Miller was exactly what Toffoli was, 55-60 point player. 

 

On the other hand, we have Boeser who is younger and already a first liner as well as plethora of youth coming up for 2nd line spot. 

 

And I'd much rather improve our defence through UFA market if at all possible. There is some chance that Pietrangelo may be on the market and it'd be shame to not even be able to tender an offer because he is exactly the last missing piece on this team: #1 RHD.

 

 

 

[-AJ-]

3 hours ago, khay said:

Yeah, honestly I'm a bit torn regarding Toffoli.

 

On one hand, he might become a PPG, 30+ goal scorer like JT. Prior to coming here, Miller was exactly what Toffoli was, 55-60 point player. 

 

On the other hand, we have Boeser who is younger and already a first liner as well as plethora of youth coming up for 2nd line spot. 

 

And I'd much rather improve our defence through UFA market if at all possible. There is some chance that Pietrangelo may be on the market and it'd be shame to not even be able to tender an offer because he is exactly the last missing piece on this team: #1 RHD.

 

 

 

I think though Miller and Toffoli were similar prior to their arrivals in Vancouver, there are some key differences I'd argue (not so much directly targeted towards your post, but those I think might be overrating Toffoli):

 

Miller was just 26 when he arrived in Vancouver, Toffoli was 27, a few months from 28. The difference is minor, but there's reason to believe that Miller, at a younger age, had more room to grow.

 

In the three seasons directly prior to Miller's arrival, he had scored at a 50-60 point pace. Toffoli has scored at a 50+ point pace only twice in his career, and both years were five and six seasons ago (unless you count this year, which adds a third). Historically, Toffoli's production is much more akin to what we saw from Sven Baertschi, with the exception that Toffoli has shown another level on occasion, with a few seasons into the 50+ point range, as previously alluded to.

 

I really like Toffoli, but I do think a lot of fans seem to be overrating him. Benning's one weakness as a GM has been free agent deals, so I am a bit wary of him signing Toffoli to a $5M+ deal when he may only score 45 points next year, hardly something worth $5M and definitely not a player that should lead us to sacrifice our defensemen such as Tanev for.

 

I do hope that Toffoli proves me wrong and turns back the clock and lights it up in the play-ins and hopefully playoffs as well this year. His recent playoffs have been big struggles for him, so hopefully he can find his form again.

[aGENT]

20 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

I think though Miller and Toffoli were similar prior to their arrivals in Vancouver, there are some key differences I'd argue (not so much directly targeted towards your post, but those I think might be overrating Toffoli):

 

Miller was just 26 when he arrived in Vancouver, Toffoli was 27, a few months from 28. The difference is minor, but there's reason to believe that Miller, at a younger age, had more room to grow.

 

In the three seasons directly prior to Miller's arrival, he had scored at a 50-60 point pace. Toffoli has scored at a 50+ point pace only twice in his career, and both years were five and six seasons ago (unless you count this year, which adds a third). Historically, Toffoli's production is much more akin to what we saw from Sven Baertschi, with the exception that Toffoli has shown another level on occasion, with a few seasons into the 50+ point range, as previously alluded to.

 

I really like Toffoli, but I do think a lot of fans seem to be overrating him. Benning's one weakness as a GM has been free agent deals, so I am a bit wary of him signing Toffoli to a $5M+ deal when he may only score 45 points next year, hardly something worth $5M and definitely not a player that should lead us to sacrifice our defensemen such as Tanev for.

 

I do hope that Toffoli proves me wrong and turns back the clock and lights it up in the play-ins and hopefully playoffs as well this year. His recent playoffs have been big struggles for him, so hopefully he can find his form again.

Nope. Short of the Erriksson disaster, he's done just fine when you consider the context of his leverage during poor, rebuilding years.

[-AJ-]

11 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Nope. Short of the Erriksson disaster, he's done just fine when you consider the context of his leverage during poor, rebuilding years.

I suppose there could be an argument for that, but it's nigh impossible to quantify the leverage disadvantage he had, so it would be difficult to prove for certain. He's made a few great contracts, like Edler's, Boeser's, and Horvat's, but I'm not sure he and his team can be given a free pass on a lot of the overpayments he's done as well due to poor-team leverage. Maybe some leeway could be given, but I'd be wary of completely letting him off the hook (outside of the Eriksson one, for which no one lets him off the hook. Ironically enough, the Eriksson deal looked risky, but not nearly as bad as it ended up being. Many fans including myself expected at least a few strong offensive years out of Loui, but hindsight tells us it wasn't to be.

[aGENT]

2 hours ago, -AJ- said:

I suppose there could be an argument for that, but it's nigh impossible to quantify the leverage disadvantage he had, so it would be difficult to prove for certain. He's made a few great contracts, like Edler's, Boeser's, and Horvat's, but I'm not sure he and his team can be given a free pass on a lot of the overpayments he's done as well due to poor-team leverage. Maybe some leeway could be given, but I'd be wary of completely letting him off the hook (outside of the Eriksson one, for which no one lets him off the hook. Ironically enough, the Eriksson deal looked risky, but not nearly as bad as it ended up being. Many fans including myself expected at least a few strong offensive years out of Loui, but hindsight tells us it wasn't to be.

What other sales tactic do you suggest for attracting free agents to a non competitive team? Frankly it's ridiculous to suggest he had hardly any UFA leverage before Boeser, Pettersson and Hughes came along. What else is there? I mean that how this works. In demand UFA's go to top teams for discounts. Also rans and bottom feeders gotta pay to play.

 

I mean I guess there's also the 'Vancouver is a great city' and 'it's a first class organization' angles but that's also easily countered by the frequently fish bowl and drama queen media and fanbase.

 

For the record, I was against the Eriksson signing from when it was just a rumor. Had a bad feeling it wasn't going to work.

[Tre Mac]

Uh oh, just heard Toffoli is a new spokesman for Bassant Motors - He gone.  Everyone knows about the Bassant curse.  Same goes with Roussel and Gaudette unfortunately, they'll all join the likes of Burrows, Burmistrov and a bunch of other players I am sure exist.

[CRAZY_4_NAZZY]

Seems to be very little update on his injury.  Makes me worried that he broke his foot and we don't see him for the rest of the playoffs.

 

At that point it really makes it a hard decision whether to keep him or not, especially if we are finding success without him. 

[flickyoursedin]

4 minutes ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

Seems to be very little update on his injury.  Makes me worried that he broke his foot and we don't see him for the rest of the playoffs.

 

At that point it really makes it a hard decision whether to keep him or not, especially if we are finding success without him. 

Depends on price tag. Obvious upgrade in the top 6 for this year and next.

[shazzam]

1 hour ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

Seems to be very little update on his injury.  Makes me worried that he broke his foot and we don't see him for the rest of the playoffs.

 

At that point it really makes it a hard decision whether to keep him or not, especially if we are finding success without him. 

I think he would choose to leave the bubble and return home if he's ruled unfit for the rest of the playoffs. Right now our top line has been shutdown 5v5. I think Toffoli brings a bit more oomph and can give that first line a boost.

[WHL rocks]

5 hours ago, CRAZY_4_NAZZY said:

Seems to be very little update on his injury.  Makes me worried that he broke his foot and we don't see him for the rest of the playoffs.

 

At that point it really makes it a hard decision whether to keep him or not, especially if we are finding success without him. 

He would have left the bubble a long time ago if the injury was that bad and he wasn't coming back to play.  

 

It's just a matter if when.. Next game.. or in 3 games .. no one knows.