benning has said

[Patel Bure]

4 hours ago, smithers joe said:

that they have to decide who to keep and who to move in the summer.

the names i have on expiring contracts and other movable pieces are, 

toffoli, gaudette, macewen, leivo, fantenberg, markstrom, stecher, tanev, virtanen, motte, goldobin

other pieces with more difficulty that need to be moved are, ericksson and baertschi. a few more have one more year on their contracts.

wishful thinking aside, who do they move to recover picks, prospects, hockey trades or let walk?

 

 

 

I think the Canucks will sign Toffoli, and will use one of Boeser or Virtanen to try and recoup the 1st round pick lost in the Miller deal.    

Stecher will get Ben Huttoned.

 

Leivo will walk the plank.

 

Baertschi and Sutter will be moved at the end of the Summer at 50% retention.

 

Eriksson will retire or will get packed with Demko.

 

[IBatch]

17 minutes ago, stawns said:

it would be nice, but I think people need to find peace with the fact that LE is most likely in the lineup next season.  Everyone was saying the same thing last summer, but he's still and, thankfully, playing decently well.

Yep.   Until our right side is better or he gets even worse might as well play him.   Think eventually it's Utica or retirement.   The cost to move him is too high ... next TDL we could do a Marleau deal, tough pill to swallow given we'd be our two of three first rounders ... best case he retires of course. Worse case we trade him and lose futures. 

[bree2]

1 minute ago, DarkIndianRises said:

I think the Canucks will sign Toffoli, and will use one of Boeser or Virtanen to try and recoup the 1st round pick lost in the Miller deal.    

Stecher will get Ben Huttoned.

 

Leivo will walk the plank.

 

Baertschi and Sutter will be moved at the end of the Summer at 50% retention.

 

Eriksson will retire or will get packed with Demko.

 

sorry but that would be just stupid on Bennings part, and he is not dumb . why would you trade a pure goal scorer (Boeser) and a up and coming player (Jake) 22 and 23 years old . I very much doubt Benning gets rid of either!

[IBatch]

5 minutes ago, DarkIndianRises said:

I think the Canucks will sign Toffoli, and will use one of Boeser or Virtanen to try and recoup the 1st round pick lost in the Miller deal.    

Stecher will get Ben Huttoned.

 

Leivo will walk the plank.

 

Baertschi and Sutter will be moved at the end of the Summer at 50% retention.

 

Eriksson will retire or will get packed with Demko.

 

Trading BB for a first is complete waste.   Three years later MAYBE we'd get a BB back - ridiculous- just like Boston trading Hamilton for a first.  

[SergioMomesso]

4 hours ago, smithers joe said:

that they have to decide who to keep and who to move in the summer.

the names i have on expiring contracts and other movable pieces are, 

toffoli, gaudette, macewen, leivo, fantenberg, markstrom, stecher, tanev, virtanen, motte, goldobin

other pieces with more difficulty that need to be moved are, ericksson and baertschi. a few more have one more year on their contracts.

wishful thinking aside, who do they move to recover picks, prospects, hockey trades or let walk?

 

 

 

Of all the guys you named, these are the guys I think will be gone.

Leivo, Fantenberg, Stecher, Goldy and Tanev. (probably Tofu but hopefully not)

 

PS Telly's is a great place to eat in Smithers

Edited February 21, 2020 by SergioMomesso

[stawns]

13 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Trading BB for a first is complete waste.   Three years later MAYBE we'd get a BB back - ridiculous- just like Boston trading Hamilton for a first.  

Doubtful it would be three years, though dependent on how high the pick would be.  Also, it would be just a first, most likely.  By trading BB they'd likely get a first a solid depth dman, plus they'd have the $ to re-sign TT assuming he'd want to sign.

[McBackup]

21 minutes ago, IBatch said:

 just like Boston trading Hamilton for a first.  

I agree with your point but thats a pretty bad example. Boston whiffed on all of those picks. They had three in sequential order and went off the board with each of them when they could have had any 3 man combination of Barzal, Connor, Boeser, Chabot, Konecny, Aho, etc

[alt kilgore]

34 minutes ago, aGENT said:

To be fair, after his bonus is paid this summer he's only got $5m left owing, or effectively, $2.5m per season. That becomes a LOT more movable. Retain 50% and that shrinks to $1.25m. Take back an AHL'er on top of that (preferably a C so Utica has some added C depth) at around $1m that can be buried and not effect the cap and that effectively becomes a few hundred K of actual cost for the other teams owner to upgrade from an AHL'er to a fringe, depth NHL'er.

 

Sure we'd still need to add an asset to make it happen but I really don't think we're at risk giving up anything TOO painful to make that happen. 

 

Or preferably, Francesco just sends some 'associates' after his bonus is paid to help 'convince' him how nice it would be to retire and relax... 

 

I'm actually counting on LE retiring.  Why wouldn't he? He will have mostly all of his bonus money after July 1st.  Also, next season, he will only get a "paltry" one million dollars in actual salary. (3 the last).  So if he did retire early, it makes sense to do it this summer rather than next.  And why would he want to go through another season, listening to LE jokes?  I promise to be merciless on CDC. 

I hope that management has plans to convince Louie. Florida showed us one way with Luongo.  If he needs convincing, hire Louie for two years as a Swedish draft consultant or something, for 2.5 mill per season for two years. Heck, make it $3 million to sweeten the deal for him. Bettman looked the other way with the Panthers similar work-around, so he'd have to for us too. 

If that doesn't work, stop being friendly.  Tell him he will be riding buses in Utica from now on. And if that doesn't work, yeah, I'm sure Francesco has a few family "associates" that might help Louie make the right decision.

[rychicken]

27 minutes ago, stawns said:

Doubtful it would be three years, though dependent on how high the pick would be.  Also, it would be just a first, most likely.  By trading BB they'd likely get a first a solid depth dman, plus they'd have the $ to re-sign TT assuming he'd want to sign.

but this is CDC, we can't trade anyone with any value - we only trade the Baer's of the organization...

[Lazurus]

A lot of suggestions.

It will be hard and expensive to move some of these contracts because of clauses, the amount of the contract and the age of the players.

3rd and 4th line 30+ yr olds earning upwards of 3 mi a year aren't easy to move especially when there is term and clause.

Injury history will also hinder a deal, even if Ferland waived he and Sven will be hard.

 

It might be easy to trade for a bunch of picks that have a very little to no chance to make the team but it will cost the Canucks more to make the deals that they get back.

 

This is Tanev and Markstrom's last big contracts, Tanev would want at least the same as Edler with longer term and Markstrom will be a FA that the team will not be able to compete with other teams, not enough cap space.

 

A danger here is that much of the future is discarded to repair bad contracts and get enough cap space for today's team, a danger because this is an unproven team that is battling for a middle of the road status now, not the ideal goal IMO.

 

Here is out of the box, Horvat and Boeser for Eichel

[IBatch]

31 minutes ago, stawns said:

Doubtful it would be three years, though dependent on how high the pick would be.  Also, it would be just a first, most likely.  By trading BB they'd likely get a first a solid depth dman, plus they'd have the $ to re-sign TT assuming he'd want to sign.

The odds are if you get your man he'd be as good as BB is.   And yes it would take time.   One to two years of development and then at least a year to get up to speed.   How long did it take Horvat?  How long did it take OJ and JV?  These were top ten picks - so yes the odds are you MAYBE get another BB three years later.  Good grief.  Half first rounders either don't make the show or play more then 200 games.   And how many are Calde finalists?   Giving up on BB now would be the worst thing this teams done since trading Neely. 

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, IBatch said:

The odds are if you get your man he'd be as good as BB is.   And yes it would take time.   One to two years of development and then at least a year to get up to speed.   How long did it take Horvat?  How long did it take OJ and JV?  These were top ten picks - so yes the odds are you MAYBE get another BB three years later.  Good grief.  Half first rounders either don't make the show or play more then 200 games.   And how many are Calde finalists?   Giving up on BB now would be the worst thing this teams done since trading Neely. 

how long did it take Petey, Huges, Boes?

 

If they can resign Toffoli, BB isn't really missed, imo.

[IBatch]

8 minutes ago, rychicken said:

but this is CDC, we can't trade anyone with any value - we only trade the Baer's of the organization...

Trading BB for a equally promising D would make some sense.  Recycling him into the draft is about as dumb a move a GM could make and zero chance it happens unless your names Sweeney or Milbury.   Hamilton was having a Norris season before he went down.  How stupid was that for Boston now?

[aGENT]

6 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Trading BB for a equally promising D would make some sense.  Recycling him into the draft is about as dumb a move a GM could make and zero chance it happens unless your names Sweeney or Milbury.   Hamilton was having a Norris season before he went down.  How stupid was that for Boston now?

I think the writing's on the wall that one of Boeser or Virtanen will be traded/packaged for a D in the next couple years.

[IBatch]

11 minutes ago, stawns said:

how long did it take Petey, Huges, Boes?

 

If they can resign Toffoli, BB isn't really missed, imo.

I'm not sure if your been serious or just trolling accidentally on purpose.   Go back and look at the entire history of our first rounders and compare BB regardless that he was a late pick.  Then do some research as to what scouts consider a win for each part of the draft.  JV has already surpassed what is considered a bust and has yet to score 40 points - something BB has done in each of his seasons so far despite injuries.   Sure there is a SMALL chance we could get a better player.   And maybe overpaying a UFA would help fill the gap.   I could get behind a hockey trade that included a defenseman that's a similar age and has similar upside.   JB has overachieved on 2 of his top ten picks and missed twice - that's 50%.   Given playoffs now and in the future is the goal there is no way he trades BB for picks.  

Edited February 21, 2020 by IBatch

[Patel Bure]

1 hour ago, bree2 said:

sorry but that would be just stupid on Bennings part, and he is not dumb . why would you trade a pure goal scorer (Boeser) and a up and coming player (Jake) 22 and 23 years old . I very much doubt Benning gets rid of either!

He won’t trade both.   Just one of these players (if we sign Toffoli).

 

The Canucks will need cap space to re-up Pettersson and Hughes (along with finding a suitable replacement for Edler......which I think many people are overlooking), and I think Benning wants to recoup the 1st that he lost in the Miller Trade (Virtanen might not be able to get us that).

 

However - if coaching and management feels that Virtanen is still improving and can still take his game to a new level, then they might offer him a longer term contract where the AAV might appear to be slightly above market value for the short term, but could end up being a huge discount a quarter way through).   If the Canucks feel that Virtanen could fit the above description, and intend to use Virtanen on the 2nd line (Toffoli would be the first line winger), then bye bye Boeser, and hello 2020 1st round pick.

[Patel Bure]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Trading BB for a first is complete waste.   Three years later MAYBE we'd get a BB back - ridiculous- just like Boston trading Hamilton for a first.  

If the Canucks intend to

 

1) sign Toffoli

2) re-sign Pettersson

3) re-sign Hughes

4) re-up Virtanen

5) re-sign Markstrom

 

etc., 

 

they’ll need the cap space.    I can’t see a situation where the Canucks will have all three of Toffoli, Boeser, and Virtanen after this season.  
 

Losing Boeser would suck, but we’d recoup the first lost in the Miller deal, and we’d create cap space.

 

ps - another thing to keep in mind is this.   The Canucks will need a suitable Edler replacement after next season (ie a top pairing “all situations” guy).    The Canucks don’t have anyone in the system that can replace Edler right now.   Tryamkin is our closest thing, but he’s a second pairing guy at best in all likelihood (and so he’d possibly be our Tanev replacement on that 2nd pairing).

[Darius]

3 minutes ago, DarkIndianRises said:

He won’t trade both.   Just one of these players (if we sign Toffoli).

 

The Canucks will need cap space to re-up Pettersson and Hughes (along with finding a suitable replacement for Edler......which I think many people are overlooking), and I think Benning wants to recoup the 1st that he lost in the Miller Trade (Virtanen might not be able to get us that).

 

However - if coaching and management feels that Virtanen is still improving and can still take his game to a new level, then they might offer him a longer term contract where the AAV might appear to be slightly above market value for the short term, but could end up being a huge discount a quarter way through).   If the Canucks feel that Virtanen could fit the above description, and intend to use Virtanen on the 2nd line (Toffoli would be the first line winger), then bye bye Boeser, and hello 2020 1st round pick.

 

Trading a 22 year old core player for a first round pick that may not even turn out to be a top 6 player or top 2 d is horrible core asset management . Basically you are replacing a 22 year old core asset with a 28 year old asset (TT turns 28 in a few weeks).   You can keep brock for 6 more years, capitolize on his production which will probably be just as good as Toffolis, then you can sell him in 6 years for much more than what you can sell Toffoli for in 6 years (Arbitrarily picking 6 years here...it could be 5).  Why not trade Bo and EP and use all the cap to buy 30 year old guys that are stars?   You are basically depreciating your asset all for the chance at a first round pick that has a relatively high probability of not even turning out to be a top 6 forward.  Do you think that first round picks like Boeser grow on trees?  Look at our 50 year history of first rounders and count how many have produced more than he has up to age 22....go ahead...

 

[bree2]

15 minutes ago, DarkIndianRises said:

He won’t trade both.   Just one of these players (if we sign Toffoli).

 

The Canucks will need cap space to re-up Pettersson and Hughes (along with finding a suitable replacement for Edler......which I think many people are overlooking), and I think Benning wants to recoup the 1st that he lost in the Miller Trade (Virtanen might not be able to get us that).

 

However - if coaching and management feels that Virtanen is still improving and can still take his game to a new level, then they might offer him a longer term contract where the AAV might appear to be slightly above market value for the short term, but could end up being a huge discount a quarter way through).   If the Canucks feel that Virtanen could fit the above description, and intend to use Virtanen on the 2nd line (Toffoli would be the first line winger), then bye bye Boeser, and hello 2020 1st round pick.

Boeser will be back on the 1st line and if Toffoli signs , he will be on the second with Bo and Pearson, Jake will be on the 3rd. we are not keeping some players at the end of the season, and finding a replacement for Edler , is not for another year, he makes 6 mil so that would open up 6 mil, and by that time some of our prospects should be ready to replace him

[Lazurus]

31 minutes ago, IBatch said:

The odds are if you get your man he'd be as good as BB is.   And yes it would take time.   One to two years of development and then at least a year to get up to speed.   How long did it take Horvat?  How long did it take OJ and JV?  These were top ten picks - so yes the odds are you MAYBE get another BB three years later.  Good grief.  Half first rounders either don't make the show or play more then 200 games.   And how many are Calde finalists?   Giving up on BB now would be the worst thing this teams done since trading Neely. 

BB was exceptional because of how late he was taken but there are many in that draft class just about as good.

Horvt was destined for Utica until his injury but then played and was close to the best player in the playoffs.

You can't compare the Canucks two picks JV and OJ to the rest of the teams, players around them excelled, a lot of players. Unless you are making a statement on Benning poor draft record.

I have looked and the two you mention are in the minority for successful impact drafted players in their draft years, of the top ten they are just about the two worst examples of making an impact quickly.

One reason the team has had Calder cup candidates is they are older by a couple of years than those they compete against Boeser and Pettersson were older vs 18 yr olds, this year is a little different, Hughes and Makar are both college guys but there are 18 and 19 yr olds they compete with for the Calder this year.

Neely did not have multiple surgeries and injuries when they traded him so that is a weak comparison.

The two year development of top ten picks is just this team, not most anymore, but even if that is correct, true and good, what is two more years of getting the team ready for prime time for years to come rather than trading away top picks for players that have a 3 or 4 year shelf life  and straggling the team with clause contracts and aging players guaranteed roster spots. This year for a possible playoff spot, with only 4 players that will be effective in 4 years? Next year this team will be vastly different, a goalie change alone will have a negative impact. This is not a young team, it is not filled with young star players or bottom six players, it is still a team in the 2 nd year of a rebuild.