[GDT] Canucks vs Coyotes - Wednesday March 4th 2020 at 7:30 PST - "Please don't lose again" Edition

[Silent Man]

Wow, game is not even started and there are 30 pages already

 

[Toddziller]

Travis green pissing away points and making his lineup

[DeNiro]

4 minutes ago, xereau said:

Yep, that's the system, for sure. On paper, it's not worth it.

 

But once in a while.. the guys have to blow off some steam.

 

It's also about the management of attrition over a whole season.

 

Fighting, hitting, scrumming, and blocking shots are how guys get hurt, mostly. Green's system limits 3 of 4 of those. Fights are pretty tame these days, and way less frequent especially on this team. Few as of late, but the games mean more blah blah. We are middle of the pack in hitting, most come from puck pursuit up ice, not in our end. Scrumming, we do way less of it than most teams, because of what you said, penalties, and because you can get hurt if it gets rough.

 

On one hand, Green's whole even keel approach is kind of bland, as we as fans sit back and analyze it, but on the other hand it's also pretty smart. Slow and steady as she goes. Eek out 58-60% wins, padded by OT points. Try to get to the playoffs less injured, and dig for another gear. We saw that other gear against the Bruins, so it's there.

 

It's time to unleash the beast, coach.

 

 

Agreed. It’s definitely a way for us to simply survive the season with the travel we have and the general durability of our core players.

 

If they can find another gear in the playoffs then great, but it’s not always as easy as flipping a switch. I just worry they’re gonna get steamrolled if they play a team that has been playing that way all season.

[Kushman]

52 minutes ago, Devron44 said:

And why are you yawning you don’t even have to reply. Just being a jerk man. Just thought I was having a conversation here

 

51 minutes ago, J-23 said:

I can do whatever tf I want.

 

@J-23 the jerk store called..

[alt kilgore]

38 minutes ago, Ferlands_Head said:

Cannot agree more.

 

Reminds me of Toffoli's first game with us when he was sticking up for EP. No other Canucks were even in the vicinity to help him. 

Sometimes Beagle would stir things up in front of the net, again he's on his own the rest of the guys are skating back to the bench. 

It's probably one of the reasons why Roussel has been a kitten this year. 

 

Why did that first Toffoli scrum stand out?

Answer: because it was an anomaly on this team.  Have you seen Toffioli do this much since? No.  He's starting to adapt to the "just skate away" mentality of the team that Rousell, Beagle, the later days of Schaller, and as mentioned Gudbranson adapted to.

Toffoli came in conditioned to play the way he thought most teams expect their players to play. Establishing grit, establishing a net presence. He soon learned that nothing is expected by Green on this aspect of the game, like every other acquisition has realized. Why be the only one doing it?

And sorry, but Bo is partly responsible. He could set the standard. The fight was a good start. But frack, just once in awhile, not every game,  I'd like to see Bo skate into a scrum and bowl someone over, start a bru-ha-ha, take a penalty even.

[xereau]

6 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I ask myself that same question.

 

Gudbranson, while not the best defenseman on the planet, is a tough player, who'll just about take on anyone. He was a menace in Florida. Once he came to Vancouver, he was half as effective in that role. Not sure why that happened. Don't get me wrong, when he was on and engaged (and paired with Edler), his presence on the ice would affect not only how teams entered the Canucks zone, but what they would do around Markstrom.

 

Schenn, who isn't as imposing a fighter as Gudbranson, came onto the team, and immediately embraced the role of protector for Hughes and Pettersson.

 

What gives?

 

Horvat has stepped up his physicality recently, with the fight against Coyle being a turning point. I still think that Bo can do more being the captain of the team, especially from a symbolic standpoint, but I think he's heading in the right direction.

 

Does Green look at the roster and see that the composition of players isn't capable of a pack mentality type of game? There seem to be games where the team is as feisty as hell, and others where they look like their collective balls haven't dropped.

 

Benning should make finding at least one forward and one defenseman of considerable size (height and weight) who aren't only capable of using the size, but willing to, a top priority this off-season. As the team improves and adds more skill players, they'll need a compliment of strength to balance out and protect the youth.

Team culture.

 

We see it, it's obvious that it's underway, and it's kind of lame to watch as a fan of the more physical elements of the game.

 

That being said, the season is 82 games, and it's a war of attrition at many levels. Injuries from hits, fights, scrums are less, if you do less of them.

 

The fact still remains, however, that when someone should be getting dropped for being a dirty PoS when called for, rarely if ever manifests on this team.

 

In the end it's a crappy product entertainment wise. The good guy bad guy narratives rarely if ever exist any more. I think that Burrows and Kesler's antics with both the players and with the refs are what gave our team swagger outside of the Sedins. They drew more than they took, and we were a better team for it.

[J-23]

8 minutes ago, Kushman said:

 

@J-23 the jerk store called..

Seriously tho, never seen anyone get so mad over an emoji.

[Tunderwood]

1 hour ago, Timbermen said:

Too bad we have Benning. A good Gm would have another Vezina MVP goalie incase of injury. Also a good Gm would have a few more Calder trophy D'men in the minors incase of injury. A good Gm would never have traded a mid round first for a player that will lead the team in goal scoring and points all year. Why would you trade a potential second line centre for a guy that can't even play goal. Sure he's our leading scorer and one of the league's top face off men but we need a goalie and he can't even do that. A good GM never would sign a 6'8 Dman, he'd draft a Russian one and then make him live in Point Roberts where he won't smell any weed. It's the Gm's fault that injury's happen, if he had them on a vegan diet and hired a sleep coach like MG, these injury's wouldn't happen at all. He didn't want to draft Pettersson, Boeser, Hughes or Gaudette that was the scouts. He did however want to draft all the players that didn't make the team.

I KNOW EH! 

 

Friggin' Bum...

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, kilgore said:

 

I think you are both right in a way.

 

"ZM fought when he didn't need to" √

"Why make that a "turning point" in the game when it wasn't."  √

 

Staged fighting is a ridiculous unnecessary sideshow.  Maybe when a game is 6 - 1 and the losing team wants to send a message for the next game. But in a close game it does nothing or it does the same for both teams. And at the same time it risks injury for nothing (Ferland).   I'd rather have less staged fighting, and more actual in-game reaction fighting to a dirty hit, supporting team mates.

But no, the fight wasn't a turning point either.  It was a nothing burger, like all staged fights.  It was the two dumb penalties by our "foundational" pieces that killed that game for us.

Staged fighting?  I think you've watched a lot less hockey then I have.  This was about McEwen trying to stay relevant - I'm sorry you and anyone else can't see that.  I'm stoked we have at least one player on our team willing to fight to make it.  Can't believe I even have to explain this to anyone.   Way too critical.  That wasn't "staged fighting".   That goes to the last class of enforcers which McEwen is definitely NOT, and has been out of the game for years now. 

[Timbermen]

9 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Staged fighting?  I think you've watched a lot less hockey then I have.  This was about McEwen trying to stay relevant - I'm sorry you and anyone else can't see that.  I'm stoked we have at least one player on our team willing to fight to make it.  Can't believe I even have to explain this to anyone.   Way too critical.  That wasn't "staged fighting".   That goes to the last class of enforcers which McEwen is definitely NOT, and has been out of the game for years now. 

I always rewind that fights and watch them on slo-mo. You can clearly see the Columbus guy ask for the fight, what was Mac supposed to do, turn it down and tell him he's M. Tchuck? It's one of the things they signed him for, it was an opportunity to show it. You can't pin this lose on him.

[canuktravella]

1 hour ago, Nuck1991 said:

Tanev and goldobin s contracts are up this year. Roussel, sutter, beagle, eriksson are the ones need to go. Good luck finding trades for them. 

I just think benning has played all his cards for this year and done more than enuf for this team to miss playoffs

u  keep beagle just for his faceoff wins hes top 3 in nhl  do you have a replacement in mind for 4th line center? do tell     petey bo gaudette are our top 3 centers soo ya if u get rid of beags who takes important end of game face offs  we dont have any 20-25 yr old centers that will do that. maybe focht in 3 yrs but thats alot of maybes 

[Devron]

1 minute ago, Timbermen said:

I always rewind that fights and watch them on slo-mo. You can clearly see the Columbus guy ask for the fight, what was Mac supposed to do, turn it down and tell him he's M. Tchuck? It's one of the things they signed him for, it was an opportunity to show it. You can't pin this lose on him.

I don’t know if anyone was really pinning the loss on him. At least I wasn’t. Just thought it was series of things that happen. I said it before and got laughed at but it’s a team game. If blame needs to be directed to a specific person or player then we can blame Green, Edler, Domingue for that on the ice goal, Sutter and Rousell for the penalties, the Penalty kill and GM Benning for the players he’s Iced. If we really want to blame people 

[IBatch]

13 minutes ago, Timbermen said:

I always rewind that fights and watch them on slo-mo. You can clearly see the Columbus guy ask for the fight, what was Mac supposed to do, turn it down and tell him he's M. Tchuck? It's one of the things they signed him for, it was an opportunity to show it. You can't pin this lose on him.

I watched it a couple times on Hockeyfights.com too later.  Nice to see the code is still alive 

[Devron]

1 hour ago, GritGrinder said:

easy-peasy.

Haha my 2 year old said this to me yesterday for the first time. I was telling her to be careful not to splash water over the tub. She grab her face rag and wiped the tube. Said easy-peasy dad, just clean it up. 
 

Hopefully the Canucks have that mentality going forward. Just go out and play better then the other team. Easy-Peasy

[the grinder]

50 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I ask myself that same question.

 

Gudbranson, while not the best defenseman on the planet, is a tough player, who'll just about take on anyone. He was a menace in Florida. Once he came to Vancouver, he was half as effective in that role. Not sure why that happened. Don't get me wrong, when he was on and engaged (and paired with Edler), his presence on the ice would affect not only how teams entered the Canucks zone, but what they would do around Markstrom.

 

Schenn, who isn't as imposing a fighter as Gudbranson, came onto the team, and immediately embraced the role of protector for Hughes and Pettersson.

 

What gives?

 

Horvat has stepped up his physicality recently, with the fight against Coyle being a turning point. I still think that Bo can do more being the captain of the team, especially from a symbolic standpoint, but I think he's heading in the right direction.

 

Does Green look at the roster and see that the composition of players isn't capable of a pack mentality type of game? There seem to be games where the team is as feisty as hell, and others where they look like their collective balls haven't dropped.

 

Benning should make finding at least one forward and one defenseman of considerable size (height and weight) who aren't only capable of using the size, but willing to, a top priority this off-season. As the team improves and adds more skill players, they'll need a compliment of strength to balance out and protect the youth.

well unfortunately  ferland  isn't playing and he was that player we needed , ,  bringing in big nikita and big mac full time  will help n  but still need a  few'big boy 'hockey  players and less "stick reachers " ( thanks alf )   

[IBatch]

2 minutes ago, Devron44 said:

Haha my 2 year old said this to me yesterday for the first time. I was telling her to be careful not to splash water over the tub. She grab her face rag and wiped the tube. Said easy-peasy dad, just clean it up. 
 

Hopefully the Canucks have that mentality going forward. Just go out and play better then the other team. Easy-Peasy

Kids are great.  No life to mess things up and say it how it is...

[Goal:thecup]

1 hour ago, xereau said:

Yep, that's the system, for sure. On paper, it's not worth it.

 

But once in a while.. the guys have to blow off some steam.

 

It's also about the management of attrition over a whole season.

 

Fighting, hitting, scrumming, and blocking shots are how guys get hurt, mostly. Green's system limits 3 of 4 of those. Fights are pretty tame these days, and way less frequent especially on this team. Few as of late, but the games mean more blah blah. We are middle of the pack in hitting, most come from puck pursuit up ice, not in our end. Scrumming, we do way less of it than most teams, because of what you said, penalties, and because you can get hurt if it gets rough.

 

On one hand, Green's whole even keel approach is kind of bland, as we as fans sit back and analyze it, but on the other hand it's also pretty smart. Slow and steady as she goes. Eek out 58-60% wins, padded by OT points. Try to get to the playoffs less injured, and dig for another gear. We saw that other gear against the Bruins, so it's there.

 

It's time to unleash the beast, coach.

 

 

There are several tricks to "winning" the physical side of the game.

 

One we almost never seem to employ is to beat the other guy to the punch. 

In this case, when done properly, the other guy takes a retaliation penalty because the officials haven't seen that nasty butt end (that Petey should use all the time) for example.

 

We always come late to the dance, take the worst of the penalties, and are too late to avoid abuse to our smaller/lighter teammates who are already hurt.

It is part of 'the code' to strike first; the code isn't for nice guys, it is for tough guys, e.g. Proust's sack attack on the Rat. 

Nobody saw it (except us fans), a high talent Bruin got nutted, and the game went on.

A big part of the code is, "Did you win?" 

The means and methods are discussed after The Cup is raised.

 

And we don't want Petey taking some turd's scalp off like the old Broadway Bullies; we don't want him penalized or suspended.

So, be cute, don't get caught, and get the other f#$#^$er first.

And don't ignore the oncoming consequences; prep for them and learn how to win them.

Gretzky used to skate as fast as he could and leap over the boards so Semenko could get on the ice and into the brawl.

 

Another, which we talk about a lot here is not to beat up the brute who injured our star,  but take out a couple of their top guys.

There are a lot of things you can do to really slow a player down where you only get two minutes or nothing at all.

Patty Cabby-Beater Kane is a tremendous hockey player when he is left to his own play; he shuts it down when you run him.

Look at how many times we are cheap-shotted and there is no call whatsover; that should be us on that end of the stick.

Daniel should have finished Keith off in the corner and he wouldn't even been on the ice to concuss Daniel later.

 

I never want to see a Canuck (like Henrik) take so many shots to the kidneys, lower back, small ribs, that he could no longer play properly.

All with no calls, no retaliation, no mercy, and with our stupid media cheering Boston on for it, plus breaking Raymond's back and calling it a dive etc.

We cannot count on the refs, or the league, or even the Players' Association for any kind of help with this problem.

(So don't be staring at the ref for the call Petey; it ain't comin'.)

The solution to the problem is to be The Problem.

 

As far as keeping injuries down during preseason and the regular season goes, these types of techniques actually makes for a healthier roster.

And practising it all year makes it even more effective in the playoffs, when injuries to the other team start to wear them down and make them more beatable as the series goes on.

And it doesn't work if it is just one tough guy; several tougher guys must be looking for this type of opportunity at all times.

Then the other teams know they have to keep their heads up and hurry their passes etc.

 

I don't know who said it first or where or when but we need to Get Tough or Die.

We will never win The Cup trying to be the nicest guys in the world.

Go Canucks Go!

 

Edited March 4, 2020 by Goal:thecup
puntuation

[Shift-4]

Bench Roussel

[lmm]

1 hour ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I ask myself that same question.

 

Gudbranson, while not the best defenseman on the planet, is a tough player, who'll just about take on anyone. He was a menace in Florida. Once he came to Vancouver, he was half as effective in that role. Not sure why that happened. Don't get me wrong, when he was on and engaged (and paired with Edler), his presence on the ice would affect not only how teams entered the Canucks zone, but what they would do around Markstrom.

 

Schenn, who isn't as imposing a fighter as Gudbranson, came onto the team, and immediately embraced the role of protector for Hughes and Pettersson.

 

What gives?

 

Horvat has stepped up his physicality recently, with the fight against Coyle being a turning point. I still think that Bo can do more being the captain of the team, especially from a symbolic standpoint, but I think he's heading in the right direction.

 

Does Green look at the roster and see that the composition of players isn't capable of a pack mentality type of game? There seem to be games where the team is as feisty as hell, and others where they look like their collective balls haven't dropped.

 

Benning should make finding at least one forward and one defenseman of considerable size (height and weight) who aren't only capable of using the size, but willing to, a top priority this off-season. As the team improves and adds more skill players, they'll need a compliment of strength to balance out and protect the youth.

Guber was always mis-cast from the day he arrived in Vancouver. He was sheltereds in FLA, playing with the likes of Willie Mitchel and Brian Campbell.

He should have played with Edler from day 1, but he was used as the steady hand to anchor Benny Hutton on the 2nd pair.

I seem to recall Gube thought he was going to score more and Jim +co thought he was the stabilizer on the 2nd pair.

Turned out he was neither, but he did play the tough guy pretty good.

now Benny and Guber are playing pretty well, albeit in diminished roles in the same city on different teams, still on bad teams.

 

As for the forward, MacEwen could be that guy, but the rest of the team seems to go into a coma when ever a Cancuks gets into a fight

[Shift-4]

On 3/3/2020 at 12:13 PM, captainhorvat said:

Please no more Rousell 

saved you some typing for next time