31 Thoughts Podcast with Travis Green

[IBatch]

The last two times we went to the finals the city burned.  Brashear/McSorely,  Otto Kicked it In, Moore on Naslun, Bertuzzi on Moore, choking against MIN, Messier/Keenan...could go right back to the start and say 2nd overall instead of a HHOFer.    Fans certainly haven't had it easy and even for the newer one's the older ones definitely pass their anguish down (along with the stories).  Maybe a dozen of fifty years have been good ones too.    Must say I was impressed at the treatment of Ryan in OTT, fans chanting his name before and after he scored - given the vitriol I constantly read on here about LE (Ryan is their LE albatross) I highly doubt in similar circumstances our fans would be happy to see him off the LITR and back on the first line - BOOed for sure.    Plus only bad things I read about TG are on here too (don't have access to local media but sure they aren't easy on him)...

 

So I could definitely see why this is the second toughest market.  

[73 Percent]

30 minutes ago, IBatch said:

The last two times we went to the finals the city burned.  Brashear/McSorely,  Otto Kicked it In, Moore on Naslun, Bertuzzi on Moore, choking against MIN, Messier/Keenan...could go right back to the start and say 2nd overall instead of a HHOFer.    Fans certainly haven't had it easy and even for the newer one's the older ones definitely pass their anguish down (along with the stories).  Maybe a dozen of fifty years have been good ones too.    Must say I was impressed at the treatment of Ryan in OTT, fans chanting his name before and after he scored - given the vitriol I constantly read on here about LE (Ryan is their LE albatross) I highly doubt in similar circumstances our fans would be happy to see him off the LITR and back on the first line - BOOed for sure.    Plus only bad things I read about TG are on here too (don't have access to local media but sure they aren't easy on him)...

 

So I could definitely see why this is the second toughest market.  

I'm not so sure.

 

Sounded like the rog was going to boo kes pretty hard according to CDC. He was actually greeted with open arms. 

 

Theres no telling how fans will react live until it happens.

Edited March 3, 2020 by 73 Percent

[Borvat]

TG is a young and inexperienced coach just starting out but there are a quite a few things to like about what he brings.  My main criticism is his apparent lack of ability to adapt or correct on the fly.  When the team seems to lose focus/panic he can't get them back on track or make the adjustments necessary.  Hopefully this will come with experience and be resolved with better player options.  His wash - rinse - repeat of lineup cards does get frustrating sometimes.  I guess there aren't a ton of options and he seems like a "players" coach so loyalty to vets sometimes appears to be a weakness/ go to for him. Maybe he has some pressure from above.   

 

I think one of the the main issues to me is the lack of quality/experienced assistant coaches on the bench.  I admit I am not sold on Baumgartner or Brown.  Some experience/better quality  from his assistant coaches would go along way in helping him.  One thing is for certain the young players and coach are learning what "meaningful" games feel like.   

[Silky mitts]

Vancouver is for sure a cut throat market here. The city is starving for a cup. The pressure is for sure there for the team to succeed. 

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, 73 Percent said:

I'm not so sure.

 

Sounded like the rog was going to boo kes pretty hard according to CDC. He was actually greeted with open arms. 

 

Theres no telling how fans will react live until it happens.

True that's a big hypothetical.  Can say one thing though, OTT fans don't treat their players the same way as we do some of our bad or underperforming ones.  My exposure to them is they like anyone who wears their uniforms so far (ten unfortunate years of exposure)...

 

All the evidence is on this site that fans are too hard on certain players.   BB hasn't taken the next step yet, but despite this he was 4th in scoring for his position when he went down (higher then any of our other players by position) the amount of guys drooling over a mature 2-3 liner and suggesting we should trade BB to replace our first or for whomever is sad really.  25 or so teams would line up to do that at the draft.  He's proven, he's on a good contract that can give the team the opportunity to lock him up long term etc...definitely what anyone outside maybe the top three overall is looking for. 

 

In 40ish years can't re-call anyone hating on LE more then except Messier (which made sense - he did beat us a few short years before and blew our Linden team up which was in its prime) ... really pre-internet and salary cap/disclosure we'd all be stoked to have an experienced vet like him that can play up and down the lineup-Walter was great on the fourth line in the Linden team - wonder if the ex-Hab Captain was making more then Linden, or Courtnal, or Ronning or Adams?  Back then we didn't care - stupid cap I swear that's where the emotion or hate comes in more then anything.  5,000,000 arm chair GMs and half of them keyboard warriors ha ha (ok me too?).

 

If LE was making 3 instead of 6 doubt it'd be an issue at all - in fact a great signing and we'd still be praising JB for it instead.   Why not also hate Bear? Or JB for other no good contracts (oh wait we do that too ha ha).   Roussel lately right?  Point is these are our players for better or worse - hating on them is bad taste and doesn't paint a good picture for the fan base (like we are children really).  I usually stay away from the GDT because if anyone misses a golden opportunity to score or stop a goal he's garbage all of a sudden (instead whomever I'm watching it with we just emote out loud and it's done - uncles used to run up to the TV with rabbit ears and palm slap the top repeatedly and swear and cuss ... guess this is how the new era fans deal with game day things instead so I do get it)  It is what it is ... Canuck fans new and old have a lot to b!tch about.   That said I think that once they put on the uniform -( including Messier initially, back then was actually excited after I got over the shock of it - thinking wow what a great second line center, plus Mogilny, Linden, Bure a lot of the guys from 94...best team on paper we've ever had by a long shot) - we should support them.

 

Of course Messier changed that real quick so he's excluded.  Same with the stupid Orca Corp branding us, and Keenan.   See now I'm doing it too ha ha.   F$@'ing hard to be a fan of this team sometimes - all the fans I know, old and young have had their heart stomped on - a few even had to switch from either TO or MTL to welcome then when they started.   Smithers Joe is probably like them.   Wise man I'm sure.   And also hope we win a cup for those old timers with this core, for a lot of them it's their last chance.    For the younger fans keep that in mind when busting on BB.  He's the SECOND Calder finalist we've ever had.  JBs spoiling us right now.   Don't give up on these guys...

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, Borvat said:

TG is a young and inexperienced coach just starting out but there are a quite a few things to like about what he brings.  My main criticism is his apparent lack of ability to adapt or correct on the fly.  When the team seems to lose focus/panic he can't get them back on track or make the adjustments necessary.  Hopefully this will come with experience and be resolved with better player options.  His wash - rinse - repeat of lineup cards does get frustrating sometimes.  I guess there aren't a ton of options and he seems like a "players" coach so loyalty to vets sometimes appears to be a weakness/ go to for him. Maybe he has some pressure from above.   

 

I think one of the the main issues to me is the lack of quality/experienced assistant coaches on the bench.  I admit I am not sold on Baumgartner or Brown.  Some experience/better quality  from his assistant coaches would go along way in helping him.  One thing is for certain the young players and coach are learning what "meaningful" games feel like.   

Well as far as not getting them back on track how many games have we won coming from behind given both our goalies propensity for letting in an early or first goal?  Suppose that's just Miller going about his business though and has nothing to do with TG.   Didn't like TG pulling the goalie with 2:17ish left in the game when we had been pressing hard for a couple minutes...that said twice this season he's also made it work...so whatever.  Keenan's blender would make TG look like it wasn't moving ... Quenville the "Coach of the Decade" has wasted a better line-up.   People in the know - that's not most of us on here - consider TG one of the best coaches in the league right now.  Are they wrong?

[Shirotashi]

6 hours ago, joe-max said:

Who cares about the rankings. Vancouver is a tough market to play in and it affects the players and the coaches. Listen to what Kesler in Bieksa said about this in their podcast, one of the first episodes. They believe it is one of the reasons that no Candian team has won a cup recently. If your confidence is down and you're not playing well, the last thing that you need is an entire city crapping on you. Teams like the Blues, Capitals and other American markets do not have that pressure. They can just keep working and concentrate on their performance on the ice.

How do you know the teams like the Blues and the Caps dont have that pressure? Qualify that please because I 

dont think you can. Its a fine thing to say about 2 teams that have had great recent success what about Buffalo 

any pressure there. Kesler and Bieksa are has beens and they cannot qualify what they said either. Best they 

could give you by my measure is some whining and b itching about the media and the fans getting Irate 

after the team starts to decline. In what market does the media and the fans NOT bitch when the team 

starts to decline? Where? Name one city!

 

Then your down to measuring HOW MUCH the media/fanbase will moan when a team starts to lose, and 

that is the main crux of my counter argument. Since you cannot measure how much media and fans 

bitch and moan you are left with subjective opinions that alot of the time are really really biased. 

 

Not saying Van isnt tough to play in but I bet you can find players from every market that at one point 

or another will say that the market was really really tough to play in. The variance might be in the amount

fans pay attention to the team. The other thing is how many players will say Van is tough market but yet

state we have the best fans in the NHL?

[joe-max]

1 hour ago, Shirotashi said:

How do you know the teams like the Blues and the Caps dont have that pressure? Qualify that please because I 

dont think you can. Its a fine thing to say about 2 teams that have had great recent success what about Buffalo 

any pressure there. Kesler and Bieksa are has beens and they cannot qualify what they said either. Best they 

could give you by my measure is some whining and b itching about the media and the fans getting Irate 

after the team starts to decline. In what market does the media and the fans NOT bitch when the team 

starts to decline? Where? Name one city!

 

Then your down to measuring HOW MUCH the media/fanbase will moan when a team starts to lose, and 

that is the main crux of my counter argument. Since you cannot measure how much media and fans 

bitch and moan you are left with subjective opinions that alot of the time are really really biased. 

 

Not saying Van isnt tough to play in but I bet you can find players from every market that at one point 

or another will say that the market was really really tough to play in. The variance might be in the amount

fans pay attention to the team. The other thing is how many players will say Van is tough market but yet

state we have the best fans in the NHL?

Bitching and moaning measurement:

- Traditional hockey market with hockey as the main/only major sport in town (Vancouver, Montreal, Toronto etc.): much

- Tradititional franchise in a big market, where hockey plays a minor role (Boston, New York, Chicago, LA etc.): some

- Franchise in an established hockey market with a passionate but manageable fanbase (Buffalo, St. Louis, Nashville etc.): some

- Franchise in a non-hockey market that couldn't care less about their NHL team (Arizona, Florida, Carolina): none

 

Prove:

- Any postgame thread after a loss

- Any post by canuck2288, kingofsurrey or Seinfeld in recent past

- Any random show on Team1040 after consecutive losses

 

Kes & Juice also mentioned that initially it is great to play in a passionate market, especially as a young player, but you'll soon learn that the fans and media will turn against you at one point. There will always be lows and cold streaks during a season, the question is how you manage to get through it. Care to think what would have happened in Vancouver had the Canucks been in last place in the league in December (like the Blues)?

[Borvat]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

Well as far as not getting them back on track how many games have we won coming from behind given both our goalies propensity for letting in an early or first goal?  Suppose that's just Miller going about his business though and has nothing to do with TG.   Didn't like TG pulling the goalie with 2:17ish left in the game when we had been pressing hard for a couple minutes...that said twice this season he's also made it work...so whatever.  Keenan's blender would make TG look like it wasn't moving ... Quenville the "Coach of the Decade" has wasted a better line-up.   People in the know - that's not most of us on here - consider TG one of the best coaches in the league right now.  Are they wrong?

Never said TG wasn't a good coach. Expressed some questions with the line up he has chosen to ice at times - not his ability to juggle lines.  He could use some veterans as assistants in my opinion if you think not so be it..  At times he has made some suspect decisions (or lack of decisions) especially when the team has lost focus.   

 

As far as goal tending goes they have had the benefit of a potential Vezina candidate up until Marky's injury so I would say he is responsible for a fair bit of their success.  Remove him from the lineup and put in an average goalie and they are not likely where they are.

[Shirotashi]

16 minutes ago, joe-max said:

Bitching and moaning measurement:

- Traditional hockey market with hockey as the main/only major sport in town (Vancouver, Montreal, Toronto etc.): much

- Tradititional franchise in a big market, where hockey plays a minor role (Boston, New York, Chicago, LA etc.): some

- Franchise in an established hockey market with a passionate but manageable fanbase (Buffalo, St. Louis, Nashville etc.): some

- Franchise in a non-hockey market that couldn't care less about their NHL team (Arizona, Florida, Carolina): none

 

Prove:

- Any postgame thread after a loss

- Any post by canuck2288, kingofsurrey or Seinfeld in recent past

- Any random show on Team1040 after consecutive losses

 

Kes & Juice also mentioned that initially it is great to play in a passionate market, especially as a young player, but you'll soon learn that the fans and media will turn against you at one point. There will always be lows and cold streaks during a season, the question is how you manage to get through it. Care to think what would have happened in Vancouver had the Canucks been in last place in the league in December (like the Blues)?

- Any post game thread after a loss? What are you talking about its the exact same thing on any board anywhere 

so not sure what you mean there. 

- The posts of a few people mean nothing to me its speculative and subjective.

- Every team everywhere have fans that call in after consecutive losses and p iss and moan so ok...

 

Your entire post about the bitching an moaning measurement lacks anything that is tangible and provable 

in terms of actual amounts people bitch and moan because IT ISNT MEASURED AT ALL!!!!

 

So as great as your post LOOKS it lacks any sort of tangible proof other than the opinion of ok lets 

count now 3 people. And btw if Kes and Juice hate how they were treated so bad why the hell would 

they come back for the Sedins retirement? I watched the whole thing and it seemed to me that we 

treated them pretty good there. Even Kesler who actually cheated with another teamates wife got

a standing O.... Yeah horrible fanbase just awful lol!

[Shirotashi]

30 minutes ago, joe-max said:

Bitching and moaning measurement:

- Traditional hockey market with hockey as the main/only major sport in town (Vancouver, Montreal, Toronto etc.): much

- Tradititional franchise in a big market, where hockey plays a minor role (Boston, New York, Chicago, LA etc.): some

- Franchise in an established hockey market with a passionate but manageable fanbase (Buffalo, St. Louis, Nashville etc.): some

- Franchise in a non-hockey market that couldn't care less about their NHL team (Arizona, Florida, Carolina): none

 

Prove:

- Any postgame thread after a loss

- Any post by canuck2288, kingofsurrey or Seinfeld in recent past

- Any random show on Team1040 after consecutive losses

 

Kes & Juice also mentioned that initially it is great to play in a passionate market, especially as a young player, but you'll soon learn that the fans and media will turn against you at one point. There will always be lows and cold streaks during a season, the question is how you manage to get through it. Care to think what would have happened in Vancouver had the Canucks been in last place in the league in December (like the Blues)?

The other thing is you cannot use reactions post game as a measure of the quality of the fanbase. Because everyone arent giant homers and over positive means its a tough market? I dont think so. Using Toronto as an example I can remember MANY an instance where over negative media coverage lead to players actually wanting out. When has that happened in Van other than Bure? Kessel and probably every single goaltender that has been in Toronto in the last 6 years could tell you something about how positive the market reacts. They were just a few weeks prior calling for Dubas's head and look at how good that team has played and the quality of players they have!

Edited March 3, 2020 by Shirotashi

[the grinder]

15 hours ago, Shirotashi said:

Dont be so quick to judge or you run the risk of sounding just as negative as the people wanting Green fired. I actually watched it and I feel like it bought him more time at the very least. It was refreshing to see that side of him.

 

I did not appreciate them saying Vancouver is the 2nd toughest market in Canada. How the hell does one even go about measuring something like that? Not saying we are angels but were do you come up with Montreal is the toughest market but Vancouver is definitely second, but certainly Toronto is not 2nd. How do you even measure something like this and come up with definitive rankings? Boggles the mind.

well coming from sportsnets  of course we have the worse media , what media guy asks ep if he is going back to Sweden after the fla incident, and then makes petey death stare a vancouver legend , so with kind of crap  going on you wonder why green doesn't say much to the media .

 

Then this morning  according to the talking heads of sportsnet  we are also the number one team in the nhl that all other teams despise of  ahead of Toronto Montreal Boston  so do you see the theme here  ,, don't you know Toronto is the center of all hockey, and can do no wrong  ,  

[Shirotashi]

18 minutes ago, the grinder said:

well coming from sportsnets  of course we have the worse media , what media guy asks ep if he is going back to Sweden after the fla incident, and then makes petey death stare a vancouver legend , so with kind of crap  going on you wonder why green doesn't say much to the media .

 

Then this morning  according to the talking heads of sportsnet  we are also the number one team in the nhl that all other teams despise of  ahead of Toronto Montreal Boston  so do you see the theme here  ,, don't you know Toronto is the center of all hockey, and can do no wrong  ,  

I cede to you that some of the questions the media asks are absolutely boneheaded. But as to the sportnet interview 

which has ALWAYS been heavily biased towards Toronto, they went around and polled all the teams and all the 

players and had that ready for this morning? Or were they just trying to divert attention from their precious baby 

team the leafs and the shockingly bad week that they have had with the whole zamboni goalie thing? The fact 

that they would chose now of all times to dump on us actually proves their bias.

[joe-max]

43 minutes ago, Shirotashi said:

- Any post game thread after a loss? What are you talking about its the exact same thing on any board anywhere 

so not sure what you mean there. 

I tried to find out, but the Panthers and Coyotes do not even have a message board on their website.

 

43 minutes ago, Shirotashi said:

- The posts of a few people mean nothing to me its speculative and subjective.

- Every team everywhere have fans that call in after consecutive losses and p iss and moan so ok...

 

Your entire post about the bitching an moaning measurement lacks anything that is tangible and provable 

in terms of actual amounts people bitch and moan because IT ISNT MEASURED AT ALL!!!!

 

So as great as your post LOOKS it lacks any sort of tangible proof other than the opinion of ok lets 

count now 3 people. And btw if Kes and Juice hate how they were treated so bad why the hell would 

they come back for the Sedins retirement? I watched the whole thing and it seemed to me that we 

treated them pretty good there. Even Kesler who actually cheated with another teamates wife got

a standing O.... Yeah horrible fanbase just awful lol!

How do you expect to quantify something as individual as perceived pressure? Of course it is subjective. But you can be sure that active players will not complain about such things, they would never get another contract anywhere. Kesler and Bieksa have had long careers, have not been removed from the game long, are pretty tough individuals and have the direct comparison (canucks --> Ducks). So while of course their opinions are not objective truth I find their view on this matter interesting, surprising and worth thinking about. It is also tough to discuss the matter if you haven't listened to their show. They loved playing in the market, but also acknowledged how tough it was for them and how it affected them. This is not a contradiction. 

 

Some more input:

Alan VIgneault (https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/goalie-graveyard-what-goalie-graveyard):

“I think this market is challenging. It has high expectations. It wants its team to do well and to do well all the time and to do well in all facets of the game.

“We’re second overall in the National Hockey League right now and it’s tough to find a positive article about our team.

“I mean, we hope every game we can get our power play going, you know, 4-for-4; and our penalty kill killing every penalty; not give up an outnumbered situation; and from start to finish spend the game in their zone.

“But it’s a challenge. There’s another team on the ice and they make it tough for us.

“For all that being said, for the most part the parts of our game have been good enough to be second overall in the NHL.

“That’s not that bad.”

 

Brian Burke: https://www.sportsnet.ca/650/sportsnets-starting-lineup/brian-burke-breaks-challenges-working-tough-vancouver-market/

He especially criticizes (social) media, talk shows, radical fans: "It's a weird market. [...] A bunch of idiots can be heard. They can make their voices louder than they should be."

 

36 minutes ago, Shirotashi said:

The other thing is you cannot use reactions post game as a measure of the quality of the fanbase. Because everyone arent giant homers and over positive means its a tough market? I dont think so. Using Toronto as an example I can remember MANY an instance where over negative media coverage lead to players actually wanting out. When has that happened in Van other than Bure? Kessel and probably every single goaltender that has been in Toronto in the last 6 years could tell you something about how positive the market reacts. They were just a few weeks prior calling for Dubas's head and look at how good that team has played and the quality of players they have!

Players that were run out of town? I can't read their minds, so I don't know, but there are several players from the past (Cloutier, Luongo, Wellwood, Booth, Weber, Vrbata, Larson, Megna, Gudbranson come to mind) and the present (Edler, Virtanen, Juolevi, Eriksson, Sutter, Lind) that had their fair share of (partially unfair) below the belt criticism.

 

My main point hasn't changed: why can we not support the team during the most crucial part of the season and dissect them when it's over? As a fan I want them to succeed. People can contribute to that - even if it is just to a miniscule fraction - by creating a strong, supportive, positive atmosphere around the team and the city. The hating, bashing, smartpants approach certainly doesn't help, but there is a danger that it MAY affect players and their performance.

[Shirotashi]

1 hour ago, joe-max said:

I tried to find out, but the Panthers and Coyotes do not even have a message board on their website.

 

How do you expect to quantify something as individual as perceived pressure? Of course it is subjective. But you can be sure that active players will not complain about such things, they would never get another contract anywhere. Kesler and Bieksa have had long careers, have not been removed from the game long, are pretty tough individuals and have the direct comparison (canucks --> Ducks). So while of course their opinions are not objective truth I find their view on this matter interesting, surprising and worth thinking about. It is also tough to discuss the matter if you haven't listened to their show. They loved playing in the market, but also acknowledged how tough it was for them and how it affected them. This is not a contradiction. 

 

Some more input:

Alan VIgneault (https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/goalie-graveyard-what-goalie-graveyard):

“I think this market is challenging. It has high expectations. It wants its team to do well and to do well all the time and to do well in all facets of the game.

“We’re second overall in the National Hockey League right now and it’s tough to find a positive article about our team.

“I mean, we hope every game we can get our power play going, you know, 4-for-4; and our penalty kill killing every penalty; not give up an outnumbered situation; and from start to finish spend the game in their zone.

“But it’s a challenge. There’s another team on the ice and they make it tough for us.

“For all that being said, for the most part the parts of our game have been good enough to be second overall in the NHL.

“That’s not that bad.”

 

Brian Burke: https://www.sportsnet.ca/650/sportsnets-starting-lineup/brian-burke-breaks-challenges-working-tough-vancouver-market/

He especially criticizes (social) media, talk shows, radical fans: "It's a weird market. [...] A bunch of idiots can be heard. They can make their voices louder than they should be."

 

Players that were run out of town? I can't read their minds, so I don't know, but there are several players from the past (Cloutier, Luongo, Wellwood, Booth, Weber, Vrbata, Larson, Megna, Gudbranson come to mind) and the present (Edler, Virtanen, Juolevi, Eriksson, Sutter, Lind) that had their fair share of (partially unfair) below the belt criticism.

 

My main point hasn't changed: why can we not support the team during the most crucial part of the season and dissect them when it's over? As a fan I want them to succeed. People can contribute to that - even if it is just to a miniscule fraction - by creating a strong, supportive, positive atmosphere around the team and the city. The hating, bashing, smartpants approach certainly doesn't help, but there is a danger that it MAY affect players and their performance.

I would continue this discussion with you but my main point is going over your head. The only thing you said that

recognizes my main point was that you cannot quantify something like market animosity, THATS ALL IM TRYING TO 

SAY. I dont have any issue with people saying that:

- Its a tough market: I agree but so are many other markets.

- Our media can be a little much at times: I agree but so are other markets.

- Players have sometimes felt like they were pushed off: Most of these players were in decline and essentially played 

themselves off the team.

- Players are affected by negative comments: If you listen to people on CDC players/management NEVER come 

on these boards, so were left with a SMALL handful of people that call in talk shows. How is that an accurate 

measure of the market. IT ISNT.

 

Brian Burke was commenting on how there is a push by fans to see Green fired. HE ALSO SAID: "Its a small

group and not a representative of the whole." That same thing could be said for the haters they are a small

group and not the majority. 

 

I guess we will agree to disagree. It is noteworthy that the hardcore homers will not defend their own fan base 

because the actions of the few are seen as the voice of the majority. Its also true that the opinions of the fans

vary from week to week. I bet if you did a poll asking wether or not Green should be fired AFTER the Leafs 

game a vast majority would be in favor. Whereas IF we made the playoffs and say by some chance WON 

a round or 2, then you polled on wether or not Green should win the Jack Adams the vast majority would 

say yes.

 

I believe Jordan Petersson touched on this when he explained that there is nothing wrong with having 

two opposing sides in any point of view. The problems arise when one side cannot live with the presence 

of the other and then tries to justify why that view should not exist at all. We SHOULD live with the tension

of BOTH sides. 

 

I stand by my statement that you cannot really ever rate a hockey market vs other markets and then come

up with some kind of numerical ranking. Its absolute garbage, its propaganda, and it has no basis in fact 

or reality.

 

Furthermore I would raise absolute hell with Sportsnet after those comments about us being hands 

down the most hated market. Either prove why thats true or lose your f*cking jobs, you biased good

ole boy club bastards.

Edited March 4, 2020 by Shirotashi

[Toyotasfan]

Travis always bets on Green.

[Tre Mac]

On 3/3/2020 at 12:28 AM, grandmaster said:

JB have him all the tools he needs to make the playoffs so he has no excuse this year.

"Here's the keys to the yacht Travis."

 

Starts the yacht up, puts it in gear and throttles it

 

"Hmmm we seem to be stuck."

 

"Every Yacht has an anchor Travis.  Well look at the time, I'll just leave you at it"

 

[joe-max]

22 hours ago, Shirotashi said:

I would continue this discussion with you but my main point is going over your head. The only thing you said that

recognizes my main point was that you cannot quantify something like market animosity, THATS ALL IM TRYING TO 

SAY.

Me too. That's why my very first sentence in the discussion was "Who cares about rankings?" They are utterly arbitrary and useless.

 

22 hours ago, Shirotashi said:

I dont have any issue with people saying that:

- Players are affected by negative comments: If you listen to people on CDC players/management NEVER come 

on these boards, so were left with a SMALL handful of people that call in talk shows. How is that an accurate 

measure of the market. IT ISNT.

Brian Burke was commenting on how there is a push by fans to see Green fired. HE ALSO SAID: "Its a small

group and not a representative of the whole." That same thing could be said for the haters they are a small

group and not the majority. 

True. But often enough loud voices by minorities/individuals manage to influence public opinion if not enough people stand up to them. Media like to jump on provocative ideas and make them their own, controversy gets you attention. Burke also mentions this in his interview. Many (some?) players, especially younger ones, are aware of what is going on out there. They may not come to CDC themselves, but friends, family members may, many are on Twitter. In a market with so much scrutiny it is difficult to seclude oneself.

 

22 hours ago, Shirotashi said:

I guess we will agree to disagree. It is noteworthy that the hardcore homers will not defend their own fan base 

because the actions of the few are seen as the voice of the majority. Its also true that the opinions of the fans

vary from week to week. I bet if you did a poll asking wether or not Green should be fired AFTER the Leafs 

game a vast majority would be in favor. Whereas IF we made the playoffs and say by some chance WON 

a round or 2, then you polled on wether or not Green should win the Jack Adams the vast majority would 

say yes.

Agreed, although I believe a bit more level-headedness and less kneejerking among fans wouldn't hurt at times.

 

22 hours ago, Shirotashi said:

I believe Jordan Petersson touched on this when he explained that there is nothing wrong with having 

two opposing sides in any point of view. The problems arise when one side cannot live with the presence 

of the other and then tries to justify why that view should not exist at all. We SHOULD live with the tension

of BOTH sides. 

Agreed.

 

22 hours ago, Shirotashi said:

I stand by my statement that you cannot really ever rate a hockey market vs other markets and then come

up with some kind of numerical ranking. Its absolute garbage, its propaganda, and it has no basis in fact 

or reality.

Agreed.

 

22 hours ago, Shirotashi said:

Furthermore I would raise absolute hell with Sportsnet after those comments about us being hands 

down the most hated market. Either prove why thats true or lose your f*cking jobs, you biased good

ole boy club bastards.

I cannot comment on that as I don't live in North American and have absolutely no clue what the public or other markets believe, but what strikes me again and again is some kind of perceived inferiority complex among some people on this board, who worry a lot about what the league, Eastern media or other fanbases think of them. As if it mattered. But that may be a discussion for another day/thread...