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[GDT] Vancouver Canucks vs Colorado Avalanche | Mar. 6, 2020 7 PM PST | The Darkest Timeline Edition

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Templeton Peck

By Templeton Peck
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aGENT Canucks Hall-of-Famer

aGENT

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23 minutes ago, Tunderwood said:

Nashville. Poile. 

I find people posting these things pretty hilarious. I mean first, does Torts even count as one? Benning didn't even fire him, that was Linden. Benning was hired like 3 weeks later. So Benning has actually only ever fired WD for those playing along at home. AKA one coach.

 

Second...context anyone? Rebuilding teams lose a lot. We lost a lot. This is not a reason to fire people when it's a highly likely and expected outcome.

 

This is just like the folks who like to carry on about OJ needing NHL games by a certain point or he's 'guaranteed' to bust. As though it's some hard and fast rule (all while completely ignoring the 1.5+ years of injury induced development/play time lost).

 

It's baffling how people think like this :lol:

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189lb enforcers? Canucks Star

189lb enforcers?

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7 minutes ago, appleboy said:

The age of players is not the only thing to consider. For the last fore years we have been in the bottom of the league. Just adding a few players dose not automatically make you a winning team. It takes a while to build chemistry.  Then they need to be tested by fire or prove what they can do. They need to prove it to themselves.  Build confidence. I see a team that is still fragile.

Making the playoffs would be nice but would also be a huge step over last season. Maybe too big of a step.

Toronto experienced terrific growth the year after winning the draft, propelling them into middle ground and less impactful draft selection choices for the rest of their roster make over. The Canucks aren’t as bad off that way, but a cost of early success and making the playoffs is for sure at the draft. 
 

This year, does it really matter? Benning has spent a lot of draft currency just to make the playoffs. This discussion then turns into discussion on the positive aspects of the playoffs. Subjective positives relating to the benefits of team playoff experience are a more engaging topic around here than looking at cost.
 

As an aside to your comments here...
Does anyone believe that the Age Gap Replace-athon plan (cost) was a success?

 

IMO, there were alternative ways to seek rebuild-roster players of a certain usefulness without having to surrender picks to get them. Did Benning need to spend picks or youth to acquire players of a specific age to plug the franchise with? I’d say he had viable options. 
 

I assume that a consensus on this management’s strength would be its drafting prowess. We’ve seen the results of both the amateur and professional scouting, so I’m curious how fans currently view the age gap fallacy and it’s cost. Was it worth it? 

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NewbieCanuckFan Canucks All-Star

NewbieCanuckFan

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I find people posting these things pretty hilarious. I mean first, does Torts even count as one? Benning didn't even fire him, that was Linden. Benning was hired like 3 weeks later. So Benning has actually only ever fired WD for those playing along at home. AKA one coach.

 

Second...context anyone? Rebuilding teams lose a lot. We lost a lot. This is not a reason to fire people when it's a highly likely and expected outcome.

 

This is just like the folks who like to carry on about OJ needing NHL games by a certain point or he's 'guaranteed' to bust. As though it's some hard and fast rule (all while completely ignoring the 1.5+ years of injury induced development/play time lost).

 

It's baffling how people think like this :lol:

If you're going to invoke context and Poile is mentioned....

 

Poile had for years had to operate with much smaller internal budget (vs clubs that have so such restriction).  Poile also started of a GM as a legit expansion team (vs say, the Vegas Knights who got some pretty liberal expansion rules).  He's also GM'd the club to five straight post-season appearances (including one Finals appearance).  Far different than taking over a team with at least SOME parts useable imho (eg., if Markstrom didn't get hurt, it's extremely highly unlikely we don't make the postseason).

 

For the record, him firing Trotz was a mistake (as history has shown - he's a great coach).

 

Just because one points out that NHL GM's rarely get to hire & fire more than one head coach (barring some kind of on ice performance); it doesn't mean that person agrees with that.  I've said more than once, the head coach is often the fall guy in many of those situations.

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VforVasili Canucks Regular

VforVasili

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12 hours ago, lmm said:

and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. The World English Bible translates the passage as: You hypocrite! First, remove the beam out of your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother's eye.

There is a position available in the Church of Virtanen for one with such an eye for detail and a passion for pedantry. Sign up on Sunday as an acolyte and we will see how it goes from there.

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NewbieCanuckFan Canucks All-Star

NewbieCanuckFan

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7 minutes ago, VforVirtanen said:

There is a position available in the Church of Virtanen for one with such an eye for detail and a passion for pedantry. Sign up on Sunday as an acolyte and we will see how it goes from there.

All you need to know is that JT Miller 3:16 says "I just whipped your ass".

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189lb enforcers? Canucks Star

189lb enforcers?

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17 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

If you're going to invoke context and Poile is mentioned....

 

Poile had for years had to operate with much smaller internal budget (vs clubs that have so such restriction).  Poile also started of a GM as a legit expansion team (vs say, the Vegas Knights who got some pretty liberal expansion rules).  He's also GM'd the club to five straight post-season appearances (including one Finals appearance).  Far different than taking over a team with at least SOME parts useable imho (eg., if Markstrom didn't get hurt, it's extremely highly unlikely we don't make the postseason).

 

For the record, him firing Trotz was a mistake (as history has shown - he's a great coach).

 

Just because one points out that NHL GM's rarely get to hire & fire more than one head coach (barring some kind of on ice performance); it doesn't mean that person agrees with that.  I've said more than once, the head coach is often the fall guy in many of those situations.

Thanks for taking the time to push on that open door of subjective context which was begging to be engaged. Saved us the efforts. 

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Nathancanuck Abbotsford Regular

Nathancanuck

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Road to the Playoffs is pretty tough now..

We need to beat either 2/3 teams in the Pacific or 4/7 in the Western to make the Playoffs

 

Western/Pacific:

EDM 80 Points, 14 GR, 1 B2B

GR Home 10: CBJ, VGK, WPG, NYI, TBL, ANA, COL, SJS, ANA, VGK

GR Road 4: PHI, WSH, OTT, CGY

Projected: 93-100 

 

CGY 77 Points, 14 GR, 1 B2B

GR Home 10: ARI, VGK, NYI, WPG, TBL, SJS, ANA, WPG, VGK, EDM

GR Road 4: NYR, NYI, NJD, VAN

Projected: 91-96

 

ARI 74 Points, 14 GR, 1 B2B

GR Home 8: VAN, NYR, DAL, VGK, DET, NSH, VAN, WPG

GR Road 6: CGY, WPG, LAK, VGK, SJS, COL

Projected: 90-95

 

Western:

MIN 75 Points, 15 GR, 4 B2B

GR Home 6: VGK, NSH, CHI, COL, NJD, BUF

GR Road 9: LAK, ANA, PHI, CHI, WPG, STL, NYI, WSH, NSH

Projected: 90-94

 

NSH 74 Points, 15 GR, 4 B2B

GR Home 6: COL, PHI, WPG, LAK, MTL, MIN

GR Road 9: DAL, MTL, TOR, CBJ, MIN, CHI, ARI, COL, PHI

Projected: 89-95

 

WPG 74 Points, 14 GR, 1 B2B

GR Home 6: VGK, ARI, FLA, MIN, COL, VGK

GR Road 8: EDM, CGY, VAN, DAL, NSH, CGY, COL, ARI

Projected: 88-93

 

CHI 70 Points, 15 GR, 3 B2B

GR Home 9: STL, SJS, OTT, MIN, NSH, PIT, DAL, LAK, MTL

GR Road 6: DET, WSH, MIN, BUF, NYI, NYR

Projected: 87-94

 

Lets have a closer look at Vancouver..

VAN 74 Points, 16 GR, 3 B2B

GR Home 9: COL, CBJ, NYI, WPG, TBL, SJS, CGY, ANA, VGK

GR Road 7: ARI, COL, ANA, LAK, VGK, DAL, ARI

 

3 more home games now against COL, CBJ, NYI = need at least 2 wins = 4 points

B2B road games against ARI and COL = need to win the ARI game in regulation = 2 points

2 home games against WPG (they will be B2B) and TBL = need to win the WPG game = 2 points

B2B road games against ANA and LAK, then 1 day later against VGK = go at least .500 = 2-3 points

Home game against SJS followed by a B2B against CGY and ANA= need to win CGY in regulation = 4-6 points

DAL and ARI on the road = win against ARI = 2 points

Last game at home against VGK = 0-2 points

 

Projected: 90-95 points, I think 90-93 is more realistic then 95 though

The next 3 home games and the games against ARI and CGY will decide our fate..

 

 

 

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Nicklas Bo Hunter

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4 minutes ago, Nathancanuck said:

Road to the Playoffs is pretty tough now..

We need to beat either 2/3 teams in the Pacific or 4/7 in the Western to make the Playoffs

 

Western/Pacific:

EDM 80 Points, 14 GR, 1 B2B

GR Home 10: CBJ, VGK, WPG, NYI, TBL, ANA, COL, SJS, ANA, VGK

GR Road 4: PHI, WSH, OTT, CGY

Projected: 93-100 

 

CGY 77 Points, 14 GR, 1 B2B

GR Home 10: ARI, VGK, NYI, WPG, TBL, SJS, ANA, WPG, VGK, EDM

GR Road 4: NYR, NYI, NJD, VAN

Projected: 91-96

 

ARI 74 Points, 14 GR, 1 B2B

GR Home 8: VAN, NYR, DAL, VGK, DET, NSH, VAN, WPG

GR Road 6: CGY, WPG, LAK, VGK, SJS, COL

Projected: 90-95

 

Western:

MIN 75 Points, 15 GR, 4 B2B

GR Home 6: VGK, NSH, CHI, COL, NJD, BUF

GR Road 9: LAK, ANA, PHI, CHI, WPG, STL, NYI, WSH, NSH

Projected: 90-94

 

NSH 74 Points, 15 GR, 4 B2B

GR Home 6: COL, PHI, WPG, LAK, MTL, MIN

GR Road 9: DAL, MTL, TOR, CBJ, MIN, CHI, ARI, COL, PHI

Projected: 89-95

 

WPG 74 Points, 14 GR, 1 B2B

GR Home 6: VGK, ARI, FLA, MIN, COL, VGK

GR Road 8: EDM, CGY, VAN, DAL, NSH, CGY, COL, ARI

Projected: 88-93

 

CHI 70 Points, 15 GR, 3 B2B

GR Home 9: STL, SJS, OTT, MIN, NSH, PIT, DAL, LAK, MTL

GR Road 6: DET, WSH, MIN, BUF, NYI, NYR

Projected: 87-94

 

Lets have a closer look at Vancouver..

VAN 74 Points, 16 GR, 3 B2B

GR Home 9: COL, CBJ, NYI, WPG, TBL, SJS, CGY, ANA, VGK

GR Road 7: ARI, COL, ANA, LAK, VGK, DAL, ARI

 

3 more home games now against COL, CBJ, NYI = need at least 2 wins = 4 points

B2B road games against ARI and COL = need to win the ARI game in regulation = 2 points

2 home games against WPG (they will be B2B) and TBL = need to win the WPG game = 2 points

B2B road games against ANA and LAK, then 1 day later against VGK = go at least .500 = 2-3 points

Home game against SJS followed by a B2B against CGY and ANA= need to win CGY in regulation = 4-6 points

DAL and ARI on the road = win against ARI = 2 points

Last game at home against VGK = 0-2 points

 

Projected: 90-95 points, I think 90-93 is more realistic then 95 though

The next 3 home games and the games against ARI and CGY will decide our fate..

 

 

 

CGY:  77 pts 14GR: ARI, VGK, NYI, WPG, NYR, NYI, NJD, TB, SJS, ANA, VAN, WPG, VGK, EDM
VAN: 74pts 16GR: COL, CBJ, NYI, ARI, COL, WPG, TB, ANA,LAK, VGK, SJS, CGY,ANA,DAL, ARI, VGK
NSH: 74pts 15GR:  DAL, MTL, TOR, CBJ, MIN,COL,PHI, CHI, WPG,LAK,ARI, COL, MTL, PHI, MIN
WPG: 74pts 14GR: VGK, ARI, EDM, CGY, VAN, FLA, MIN, DAL,NSH,COL, VGK, CGY, COL, ARI
ARI: 74pts 14GR: CGY, WPG, VAN, NYR, DAL, VGK, DET,LAK, VGK,NSH, SJS, COL, VAN, WPG
MIN: 75pts 1GR:  LAK, ANA, VGK, PHI, NSH, CHI, CHI, WPG, COL, NJD, BUF, STL, NYI, WSH, NSH


ARI = 1 CGY, 2 WPG, 1 NSH, 2 VAN:  Most points they can get= 14pts,OTL= 7pts
NSH= 2 MIN, 1 WPG, 1 ARI: Most pts they can get= 8pts, OTL= 4pts
WPG= 2 ARI, 2 CGY, 1 VAN: Most pts they can get= 10pts, OTL= 5pts
MIN= 2 NSH, 1 WPG: Most pts they can get= 6pts, OTL= 3pts
CGY= 1 ARI, 2 WPG, 1 VAN: Most pts they can get= 8pts, OTL= 4pts
VAN = 2 ARI, 1WPG, 1 CGY: Most pts they can get= 8pts, OTL= 4pts
 
ARI MAX = 88pts, ARI MID = 81pts, ARI LOW=74pts GR= 8
CGY MAX= 83pts, CGY MID = 79pts, CGY LOW= 75pts GR= 11
NSH MAX= 80pts, NSH MID= 76pts, NSH LOW= 72pts GR= 12
WPG MAX= 84pts, WPG MID= 79pts, WPG LOW= 74pts GR= 9
MIN MAX= 79pts, MIN MID= 76pts, MIN LOW= 73pts GR= 12
VAN MAX= 82pts, VAN MIN= 78pts, Van Low= 74pts GR= 12

 

Current Standings:

CGY- 77 points- 14GR * playoff spot

MIN- 75 points- 15GR * playoff spot

VAN- 74 points- 16GR * playoff spot

NSH- 74 Points- 15GR

WPG- 74 points- 14GR

ARI- 74Points- 14GR

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aGENT Canucks Hall-of-Famer

aGENT

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24 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

If you're going to invoke context and Poile is mentioned....

 

Poile had for years had to operate with much smaller internal budget (vs clubs that have so such restriction).  Poile also started of a GM as a legit expansion team (vs say, the Vegas Knights who got some pretty liberal expansion rules).  He's also GM'd the club to five straight post-season appearances (including one Finals appearance).  Far different than taking over a team with at least SOME parts useable imho (eg., if Markstrom didn't get hurt, it's extremely highly unlikely we don't make the postseason).

 

For the record, him firing Trotz was a mistake (as history has shown - he's a great coach).

 

Just because one points out that NHL GM's rarely get to hire & fire more than one head coach (barring some kind of on ice performance); it doesn't mean that person agrees with that.  I've said more than once, the head coach is often the fall guy in many of those situations.

I'm not the one that brought up Poile FWIW ;)

 

But fair enough on the 'fall guy' issue. I don't personally see it happening here (as I don't believe we need a 'fall guy' as we're right where we were expected to be, injured MVP goalie and all). But it is certainly not uncommon.

 

As for firing Trotz, hard to say it was/wasn't a mistake. Sometimes teams need a change, good coach or not (see: AV here). But yes, he is a good coach. He was one of the guys I was hoping the Canucks would target, but clearly he wanted to go to a contender.

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