Saudi Arabia declares oil price war on fellow OPEC (and non OPEC)members.

[JM_]

2 hours ago, Boudrias said:

So your happy with that? AB has been forking out +$20 B per year for how many years? 

misleading bunk. Albertans have paid their taxes, nothing more. Just like every other person in Canada thats paid federal taxes. 

[Boudrias]

13 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

misleading bunk. Albertans have paid their taxes, nothing more. Just like every other person in Canada thats paid federal taxes. 

Thats your take but not mine. I see Conrad Black is now pitching the idea that resources are national assets which I don't agree with. That said he feels AB/Sask should withdraw from equalization. For the 100's of billions Albertans have paid into equalization I highly doubt they get much of a sniff in return. Oil won't be $20 forever and AB wiill rebuild but maybe not within Canada.  

[Gurn]

21 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

I see Conrad Black is now pitching

Convicted fraudster says what?

[JM_]

1 hour ago, Boudrias said:

Thats your take but not mine. I see Conrad Black is now pitching the idea that resources are national assets which I don't agree with. That said he feels AB/Sask should withdraw from equalization. For the 100's of billions Albertans have paid into equalization I highly doubt they get much of a sniff in return. Oil won't be $20 forever and AB wiill rebuild but maybe not within Canada.  

its not a "take". Please explain what Albertans did, other than pay their taxes. Really, I want you to lay it out for me if you can. 

 

Its ridiculous to think Albertans should get more back because they are lucky to have a higher concentration of high paying jobs. If thats how we're going to run things then higher earning people should get a higher proportion of their taxes back than poor people. 

[JM_]

1 hour ago, gurn said:

Convicted fraudster says what?

yeah, its not like Black would be pandering to an easy to fluff base to increase his readership.... 

[Warhippy]

29 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

its not a "take". Please explain what Albertans did, other than pay their taxes. Really, I want you to lay it out for me if you can. 

 

Its ridiculous to think Albertans should get more back because they are lucky to have a higher concentration of high paying jobs. If thats how we're going to run things then higher earning people should get a higher proportion of their taxes back than poor people. 

That's just it.  You point out this simple, immutable fact endlessly and they NEVER answer it because they can't.  Somehow someway the fact that they all just went to work and paid taxes is not part of their equation, it's a nefarious evil plot to keep Alberta down.

[Boudrias]

39 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

its not a "take". Please explain what Albertans did, other than pay their taxes. Really, I want you to lay it out for me if you can. 

 

Its ridiculous to think Albertans should get more back because they are lucky to have a higher concentration of high paying jobs. If thats how we're going to run things then higher earning people should get a higher proportion of their taxes back than poor people. 

Not particularly interested in an extended back an forth over this. I cannot agree with a program (equalization) that takes vasts amount of money from a province like AB for decades. It cannot be justified on the basis of just paying your taxes like everyone else. There is little argument over the net net of it. I blame the province of AB for staying in equalization as well. Many years of weak provincial governments. 

[bishopshodan]

35 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

its not a "take". Please explain what Albertans did, other than pay their taxes. Really, I want you to lay it out for me if you can. 

 

Its ridiculous to think Albertans should get more back because they are lucky to have a higher concentration of high paying jobs. If thats how we're going to run things then higher earning people should get a higher proportion of their taxes back than poor people. 

Through the years of this circular convo I often wonder why some don't understand this.

 

I would have thought the gripe would be removing the non renewable resource to the calculations. I know Kenny pushed for this a couple years ago and it wouldn't change the amount of equalisation payments. However, it might look more fair in AB's eyes as I believe they get treated different when it comes to NRR?

[Warhippy]

7 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

Not particularly interested in an extended back an forth over this. I cannot agree with a program (equalization) that takes vasts amount of money from a province like AB for decades. It cannot be justified on the basis of just paying your taxes like everyone else. There is little argument over the net net of it. I blame the province of AB for staying in equalization as well. Many years of weak provincial governments. 

But you didn't answer his question.

 

If the ONLY thing done is taxes being paid there is no argument you can continue to make that Alberta is getting screwed.  Need I remind you, this method was changed back in the 80s twice; during the NEP negotiations and then again towards the late 80s and one again under Harper.  All at the request of and behest of Alberta who thought they were getting screwed out of resource monies.

So....if it cannot be justified, but that is all that is happening what is the answer?

[JM_]

16 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

Not particularly interested in an extended back an forth over this. I cannot agree with a program (equalization) that takes vasts amount of money from a province like AB for decades. It cannot be justified on the basis of just paying your taxes like everyone else. There is little argument over the net net of it. I blame the province of AB for staying in equalization as well. Many years of weak provincial governments. 

you know, you say that a lot when I challenge you on a statement.

 

There's a net net effect on having oil exports as well, on our manufacturing sector. It makes every other industry in Canada harder to export due to petro states typically having higher dollars. But I guess when you're determined to go with the AB mythology thats not something you want to consider. 

[JM_]

17 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

Through the years of this circular convo I often wonder why some don't understand this.

 

I would have thought the gripe would be removing the non renewable resource to the calculations. I know Kenny pushed for this a couple years ago and it wouldn't change the amount of equalisation payments. However, it might look more fair in AB's eyes as I believe they get treated different when it comes to NRR?

Harper did take 50% of that out of the equation already. 

 

Alberta has gained a lot by being in confederation, but they don't see it that way. Its nearly impossible to have a rational discussion over it, or talk about the negative effects of high oil prices on our dollar and our manufacturing sector that has to take a back seat to AB oil. 

[Ryan Strome]

48 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

That's just it.  You point out this simple, immutable fact endlessly and they NEVER answer it because they can't.  Somehow someway the fact that they all just went to work and paid taxes is not part of their equation, it's a nefarious evil plot to keep Alberta down.

So answer this: Why does there have to be equalization? Why is up to us to fund everyone else?

[Ryan Strome]

13 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Harper did take 50% of that out of the equation already. 

 

Alberta has gained a lot by being in confederation, but they don't see it that way. Its nearly impossible to have a rational discussion over it, or talk about the negative effects of high oil prices on our dollar and our manufacturing sector that has to take a back seat to AB oil. 

The positive effects are far better for the entire country, but of course all the seats are in Ontario, a manufacturing province dependent on the US. If the liberals don't win Ontario they're essentially not a party. Have you connected the dots yet?

[Ryan Strome]

'Not going to do anything:' Oil executives say federal abandoned well program comes too late

OTTAWA — Energy executives panned a new well reclamation program unveiled by the Liberal government on Friday, saying it comes weeks too late and fails to provide much-needed liquidity to companies pummelled by a monumental shock to oil demand.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said Ottawa would spend $1.7 billion to clean up abandoned oil and gas wells in oil-producing provinces as part of an effort cushion firms against the economic fallout from COVID-19. Environmental advocacy groups applauded the move, while official industry sources and provincial leaders also supported the new spending.

 

But several oil executives said the program falls woefully short of needs and expectations.

“This is not going to do anything,” said Grant Fagerheim, chief executive of Calgary-based Whitecap Resources. “If this is as good as it gets, it will do very little or nothing to assist with operations for companies.”

 

The industry had for weeks been calling on Ottawa to introduce new lines of credit specific to oil and gas companies, which are fending off an historic drop in oil prices as governments shut down their economies in a bid to stem the spread of the virus. Prices for Canadian crude recently plunged as low as US$4, placing intense strain on an oil industry that was only beginning to climb back from the market collapse of 2014.

 

“I don’t think there’s a full appreciation and understanding of the severity of what we’re dealing with,” Fagerheim said of the Liberal measures.

Trudeau also announced a $750-million fund aimed at reducing methane emissions. He said the funds would allow Canada to “continue to fight climate change and reduce emissions while keeping people at work.”

“This is an opportunity for us to make sure that Albertans are getting to work cleaning up their province,” he said.

One oil executive, who asked not to be named due to the sensitivity of the issue, said the announcement appeared to adhere closely to Ottawa’s tendencies around environmental messaging, rather than addressing immediate concerns on private sector balance sheets.

“I think they made the calculation that it would be politically unpalatable in Ontario and Quebec to provide direct supports to oil and gas,” the person said.

 

@Jimmy McGill pretty much what I was saying to you.

https://nationalpost.com/news/not-going-to-do-anything-oil-executives-say-federal-abandoned-well-program-comes-too-late/amp

[Warhippy]

4 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

So answer this: Why does there have to be equalization? Why is up to us to fund everyone else?

When you say US.  You mean, every single province in Canada that has the EXACT same formula right?  Because Alberta isn't the only one to pay in to this, but they're really the only province outside of Quebec to have that formula changed to benefit them

[Ryan Strome]

21 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

you know, you say that a lot when I challenge you on a statement.

 

There's a net net effect on having oil exports as well, on our manufacturing sector. It makes every other industry in Canada harder to export due to petro states typically having higher dollars. But I guess when you're determined to go with the AB mythology thats not something you want to consider. 

So lose the high paying jobs so the 16/hr jobs in BC and Quebec can succeed?

[Warhippy]

1 minute ago, Ryan Strome said:

'Not going to do anything:' Oil executives say federal abandoned well program comes too late

OTTAWA — Energy executives panned a new well reclamation program unveiled by the Liberal government on Friday, saying it comes weeks too late and fails to provide much-needed liquidity to companies pummelled by a monumental shock to oil demand.

Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said Ottawa would spend $1.7 billion to clean up abandoned oil and gas wells in oil-producing provinces as part of an effort cushion firms against the economic fallout from COVID-19. Environmental advocacy groups applauded the move, while official industry sources and provincial leaders also supported the new spending.

 

But several oil executives said the program falls woefully short of needs and expectations.

“This is not going to do anything,” said Grant Fagerheim, chief executive of Calgary-based Whitecap Resources. “If this is as good as it gets, it will do very little or nothing to assist with operations for companies.”

 

The industry had for weeks been calling on Ottawa to introduce new lines of credit specific to oil and gas companies, which are fending off an historic drop in oil prices as governments shut down their economies in a bid to stem the spread of the virus. Prices for Canadian crude recently plunged as low as US$4, placing intense strain on an oil industry that was only beginning to climb back from the market collapse of 2014.

 

“I don’t think there’s a full appreciation and understanding of the severity of what we’re dealing with,” Fagerheim said of the Liberal measures.

Trudeau also announced a $750-million fund aimed at reducing methane emissions. He said the funds would allow Canada to “continue to fight climate change and reduce emissions while keeping people at work.”

“This is an opportunity for us to make sure that Albertans are getting to work cleaning up their province,” he said.

One oil executive, who asked not to be named due to the sensitivity of the issue, said the announcement appeared to adhere closely to Ottawa’s tendencies around environmental messaging, rather than addressing immediate concerns on private sector balance sheets.

“I think they made the calculation that it would be politically unpalatable in Ontario and Quebec to provide direct supports to oil and gas,” the person said.

 

@Jimmy McGill pretty much what I was saying to you.

https://nationalpost.com/news/not-going-to-do-anything-oil-executives-say-federal-abandoned-well-program-comes-too-late/amp

Oil execs saying cleaning up their mess that they have numerous shell companies set up for bankruptcy to avoid financial loss mad that government money not flowing in to their coffers when they're still developing in more lucrative parts of North America

[Ryan Strome]

Just now, Warhippy said:

When you say US.  You mean, every single province in Canada that has the EXACT same formula right?  Because Alberta isn't the only one to pay in to this, but they're really the only province outside of Quebec to have that formula changed to benefit them

Actually the formula was changed to screw us.

Please answer my question. 

[Warhippy]

3 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Actually the formula was changed to screw us.

Please answer my question. 

You didn't ask a question, you asked a series of statements made up on a bed of misinformation.

 

You are not the only ones paying.  Equalization is there to help every province who needs it.  It was changed by the very same guy you literally voted in to power and is now running your province in to the dirt.

 

So, you didn't ask anything worth answering.  Sucks when you want a simple answer but someone gives you the run around doesn't it?

[Ryan Strome]

Warhippy acts as if he is the king of cdc asks for answers gets them doesn't like them complains endlessly. Discusses topics he doesn't understand so he can't answer direct questions. Warhippy: I will be back shortly I have to Google what you said to me and asked me.

Why do I bother.

Edited April 18, 2020 by Ryan Strome