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Saudi Arabia declares oil price war on fellow OPEC (and non OPEC)members.


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6 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Not one person from you guys ever mention it. Only Alberta for you guys.

We're in an oil thread talking about $1.7B oil subsidy. 

 

You want to start a mining or forestry thread, feel free. I doubt you'll find many takers here arguing our tax dollars should be going to clean up their messes either.

 

red-herring.jpg

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2 hours ago, aGENT said:

I'd prefer logging companies pay for that as well.

 

And last time I checked, this wasn't a forestry related thread.

Logging and oil are the same .......farmer gets paid to let some drill on there land, then hopefully a well so on 

loggers pay pure stump to the only of the land and then turns around and sell the timber to a mill......

same in theory and both arnt holding up on replanting or taking apart old pump jacks....so pick your poison.....I know of areas cleared and not replanted and I know where there are dead pump jacks.....

logging is just as messed up as oil ha if anything I would say rigs are safer then working for can for ha

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1 hour ago, gurn said:

"heck b.c even made a policy about not cutting trees to close to the road..."

 

Correct, partially because it is unsightly for a few years till the new trees start growing. Also because if you cut down a bunch of trees close to the road and leave a few standing the wind just blows those down on the road, maybe killing people during windstorms.

I know but you can see why some would say b.c cares more about tourism then any other industry.....Inveremere even got a grant to fund more tourist traps.canal flats got a new arena acouple years back and you know who has it booked like every weekend?.....teams from Calgary lol .... And might add they do a nice Alberta appreciation week :) the rest of b.c could take tips.....:bigblush:

b.c is no better then Alberta but everyone will know the truth after this virus kills tourism for a bit.......

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8 minutes ago, RowdyCanuck said:

Logging and oil are the same .......farmer gets paid to let some drill on there land, then hopefully a well so on 

loggers pay pure stump to the only of the land and then turns around and sell the timber to a mill......

same in theory and both arnt holding up on replanting or taking apart old pump jacks....so pick your poison.....I know of areas cleared and not replanted and I know where there are dead pump jacks.....

logging is just as messed up as oil ha if anything I would say rigs are safer then working for can for ha

I asked Ryan this.

 

Are the potential environmental impacts of the tailing ponds and logging clean ups comparable to all the spent Wells?

 

If you google how many spend Wells there are, you will understand why I ask this question. It is an honest question too, not being silly. Just wondering if they are comparable? otherwise is it like comparing a pinch to a punch? 

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40 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

I asked Ryan this.

 

Are the potential environmental impacts of the tailing ponds and logging clean ups comparable to all the spent Wells?

 

If you google how many spend Wells there are, you will understand why I ask this question. It is an honest question too, not being silly. Just wondering if they are comparable? otherwise is it like comparing a pinch to a punch? 

Not just wells, dead pipelines as well.  400,000 kms of line in Alberta give or take and a lot of dead line which will not be reclaimed

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4 hours ago, bishopshodan said:

I asked Ryan this.

 

Are the potential environmental impacts of the tailing ponds and logging clean ups comparable to all the spent Wells?

 

If you google how many spend Wells there are, you will understand why I ask this question. It is an honest question too, not being silly. Just wondering if they are comparable? otherwise is it like comparing a pinch to a punch? 

Difference,  if you own suffice rights, then  even if it's a dead well the farm still makes money.....not as much as a pumping well but still.....a lot of it depends on the lease agreement. 

also where these wells are in Alberta and s.k and Manitoba a lot of it is on private land which was already worked threw farming or ranch land.....so I would say wells have less impacted then logging or tailing cause while your tailing your already endangering what ever wild life there.....

 

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3 minutes ago, RowdyCanuck said:

Difference,  if you own suffice rights, then  even if it's a dead well the farm still makes money.....not as much as a pumping well but still.....a lot of it depends on the lease agreement. 

also where these wells are in Alberta and s.k and Manitoba a lot of it is on private land which was already worked threw farming or ranch land.....so I would say wells have less impacted then logging or tailing cause while your tailing your already endangering what ever wild life there.....

 

 

So simply put, you are saying that the potential environmental damage that all the spent wells could cause is less than the current tailing ponds and lumber clean up.

 

Thank you for your answer. 

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2 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

 

So simply put, you are saying that the potential environmental damage that all the spent wells could cause is less than the current tailing ponds and lumber clean up.

 

Thank you for your answer. 

Yea cause where the wells are the earth has already been worked......it's just a pain to rip the jacks apart....just like its a pain to replant.....that's why both industries don't tell the truth. 

But if farmers are still getting lease checks then they can't complain even if it's next to nothing ......that's why I say it depends on the lease agreement. 

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5 minutes ago, RowdyCanuck said:

Yea cause where the wells are the earth has already been worked......it's just a pain to rip the jacks apart....just like its a pain to replant.....that's why both industries don't tell the truth. 

But if farmers are still getting lease checks then they can't complain even if it's next to nothing ......that's why I say it depends on the lease agreement. 

I just wanted to know whats worse for the environment in the actual proposed comparison. I have heard decommissioned wells can cause a lot of contamination and there is 155,000 in AB alone. So even if one well isn't as bad as one pond ( I don't know), the sheer amount of wells is staggering. 

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1 hour ago, RowdyCanuck said:

How are they different ? They both take something natural from this earth and make promises and don't keep them..... How don't you see that they are alike or the same in theory? 

Both industries may (unfortunately) function in a similar manner but that does not make them 'the same'. Nor do two wrongs make a right as you and others seem to be implying here. 

 

And regardless, as I've pointed out numerous times now, it's a complete red herring. This thread is about oil. The current discussion in this oil thread is about the $1.7B proposed tax dollars to clean up old operations of said oil. If you'd like to start a separate forestry and/or mining thread I'm sure you'll have little hardship digging up similar sentiment there.

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2 hours ago, bishopshodan said:

I just wanted to know whats worse for the environment in the actual proposed comparison. I have heard decommissioned wells can cause a lot of contamination and there is 155,000 in AB alone. So even if one well isn't as bad as one pond ( I don't know), the sheer amount of wells is staggering. 

I do agree when you see five wells pumping from one well it looks bad but they wanted the oil out faster and didn't plan for the future. 

But a lot of those pump jacks are in fields and to where grain farms will lose a season crop because of taking it out......

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1 hour ago, aGENT said:

Both industries may (unfortunately) function in a similar manner but that does not make them 'the same'. Nor do two wrongs make a right as you and others seem to be implying here. 

 

And regardless, as I've pointed out numerous times now, it's a complete red herring. This thread is about oil. The current discussion in this oil thread is about the $1.7B proposed tax dollars to clean up old operations of said oil. If you'd like to start a separate forestry and/or mining thread I'm sure you'll have little hardship digging up similar sentiment there.

I agree but if people want to run oil down and say they don't do what they say well b.c has that problem too and that's all I was pointing out. 

Like I said it's like asking which pig is prettier ha 

also a lot of those wells that get broken up a lot of farmers buy the pipe for next to nothing and build pens with it. So there's more to it then just ripping apart pump jacks and like I said,  it did depends what their lease agreement says.....that's the catch here.....

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Jason Kenney today BEGGING for financial aid.  Using the methods used to save auto workers back in 2008-2009 as somehow a "smart thing" without mentioning how those jobs were still lost and Canadians took a major hit on their ROI.

 

He also is not mentioning near record levels of exports last year, nor the jobs lost to automation.  Nor how he spent billions to have a pipeline blocked by Americans.  There are 3 pipelines currently on the go which will do little to alleviate a problem that is 100% caused by current market forces but he still demands and wants billions thrown at this problem towards multi billion dollar profiting corporations that are still producing in other markets with a better break even cost.

 

Oil tanked, Alberta is in a crisis caused by in house measures that needs to be solved by in house solutions.  Nobody can force companies to not automate, to produce at a loss or to not layoff employees during a production freeze caused by record low prices and zero storage capacity.  What we can do is ensure our tax dollars do not go to corporations who will take it, not reinvest it and still leave afterwards anyways.

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/oil-price-monday-1.5538048

 

The economic slowdown caused by COVID-19 is pushing oil prices down to their lowest level in more than 30 years.

The most current futures contract for West Texas Intermediate fell by $8 US a barrel on Monday, going as low as $10.10 US in a plunge of more than 40 per cent.

If that level holds until the end of the day, it will be the lowest closing price for WTI since March 1986.

The oil price is especially volatile on Monday because it's the last trading day for oil contracted to be delivered in May. Traders are scrambling to settle their positions before actual delivery of the oil gets finalized on Tuesday, at which point oil for June delivery will be the benchmark price.

The contract for oil to be delivered next month is plunging because anyone caught owning it as of the end of business on Monday will have to find a place to store the oil soon, a task that's getting harder and harder of late.

The price is going down because there's very little demand for oil, and the world is running out of places to store the excess. Storage tanks at the U.S. hub of Cushing, Okla., are now holding 55 million barrels of crude, which is their highest level since 2018.

 

Storage on land is filling up everywhere, so some producers have taken to storing their excess oil at sea, renting tankers to float aimlessly to store the crude until a higher price or buyer can be found. Rates for the biggest oil tankers have soared as producers scramble to secure space to keep the crude they don't know what else to do with.

"Floating storage remains the only outlet for a mismatched production and consumption backdrop," Evercore shipping analyst Jonathan Chappell said in a note to clients last week.

The going rate for the biggest oil tankers in the world hit $165,000 a day this weekend, Chappell calculates, but despite that up-front cost, "it is difficult to envision a scenario where floating storage is not economic and required over the coming months."

 

 

That's because there's not enough demand for the stuff that's already out there. The oil cartel known as OPEC tried to address that earlier this month by promising to pump 10 million fewer barrels of oil every day, but even that huge cut isn't enough to offset the corresponding drop in demand.

Lockdowns, travel bans and the general economic slowdown associated with the COVID-19 pandemic have reduced demand for oil by about 25 million barrels a day, so OPEC turning off the spigots by 10 million barely makes a dent.

"If your bathtub is about to overflow and you turn down the tap a little, it will still overflow," oil analyst Bjarne Schieldrop with SEB Research said Monday.

"The oil price is now ordering producers to halt production and it is happening at high speed and in an unorderly fashion. This is creating damage to production and some of it will never come back online again."

 

Canada's oil price plunges

Canadian oil producers are among those in danger of turning off the taps if these prices persist. The type of oil from Canada's oilsands is known as Western Canadian Select and it typically trades at a discount of between $10 and $15 to WTI, because it is harder to transport and refine.

Alberta Premier Jason Kenney tweeted on Monday that the price of WCS actually dipped into negative territory overnight — meaning Canadian oil companies are functionally having to pay to get rid of their product.

 

Western Canadian Select oil is now trading at negative prices.
Killing & delaying pipelines landlocked us.#Covid19 collapsed demand.

The Russian-Saudi price war surged supply, filling up inventories.

The future of hundreds of thousands of Canadian jobs is at stake.

View image on Twitter
 
 
 
 

Raymond James analyst Jeremy McCrea told CBC News in an interview that he expects the price of WCS will seesaw above and below the $0 level for a little while yet.

"We did see WCS go negative this morning," he said in an interview. "As we look forward into the next month it does seem to get a little bit better but with storage so full and getting more full by the day it doesn't look too optimistic over the next couple months."

Hedge fund executive Pierre Andurand of Andurand Capital said negative prices make sense in the current climate. 

"There is no limit to the downside to prices when inventories and pipelines are full," he tweeted. "Negative prices are possible."

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For those freaking out about oil prices. It's the May contract that's getting obliterated. The May contract expires on the 21st of April.

 

June is trading at approx $22. Most of the trading volume has already migrated over to the June contract. May contract = 133K today, June contract = 850K today.

 

Though it is rather eye popping to see Western Canadian Select trading as low as 43 cents a barrell.

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