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Saudi Arabia declares oil price war on fellow OPEC (and non OPEC)members.


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2 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Norway is a country Alberta is a province. Imagine if 650 billion was put in the heritage fund.

Why is it one or the other for you? Why does BC continue to subsidize an industry that is dependent on the Americans and Japanese?

you'd have to have quite the imagination, given how the PCs spent like drunken sailors. 

 

You're the one with the B&W view here. I'm advocating for a strong AB with a diversified economy, you're stuck on oil or bust. 

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1 minute ago, BPA said:

Probably too late but I wonder if it's worth trying to restart the NEP that was envisioned decades ago.

 

 

So what is your restart approach? Only destroyer from your side has admitted there is many issues that have to be fixed. In our last discussion you wanted the exact same approach which was a failure. 

15 minutes ago, thedestroyerofworlds said:

And they disagree with you.  How's the legacy fund going?  Norway has a more direct financial situation with their oil and gas than Canada does.  Maybe we should have fixed the issues with the NEP and been more like Norway rather than the shortsighted conservative approach to end it.  But hey, hindsight is 20/20.  

 

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6 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

And rightfully so.

 

The energy sector, mainly oil and gas gave been warned for years about this.  It's literally what happened in the 70s and 80s that brought about the NEP and American investment in to soul sourcing of Canadian oil.

 

Businesses need to fly or fail based on their own merits.  That's capitalism.  Propping up failed business in the backs of taxpayers is a failure on all parts and never ends.

I can't find you once complaining about Obama and Trudeau doing that. Please prove me wrong.

3 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

you'd have to have quite the imagination, given how the PCs spent like drunken sailors. 

 

You're the one with the B&W view here. I'm advocating for a strong AB with a diversified economy, you're stuck on oil or bust. 

So education, infrastructure, health care, etc is wasteful spending?

In fact we were debt free while giving that money so I'm sure we didn't need it.

Massive debt was accumulated after the fiasco of the NEP.

I said diversification is fine but not at the expense of the energy industry. 

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6 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

So what is your restart approach? Only destroyer from your side has admitted there is many issues that have to be fixed. In our last discussion you wanted the exact same approach which was a failure. 

 

No idea how to fix it. 

 

But would take strong leadership and make some Provinces unhappy.  Feds would need to force the pipeline East and West.  Have refineries set up various places to supply oil/gas to the Provinces. 

 

At the very least, Canada would get a steady supply without fear of any shortages and market corrections.

Edited by BPA
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3 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

 

So education, infrastructure, health care, etc is wasteful spending?

 

 

3 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

I said diversification is fine but not at the expense of the energy industry. 

it is the way they did it, inefficiency is never good.

 

your energy industry might die no matter what Canada does. Hasn't that ever occurred to you? 

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5 minutes ago, BPA said:

No idea how to fix it. 

 

But would take strong leadership and make some Provinces unhappy.  Feds would need to force the pipeline East and West.  Have refineries set up various places to supply oil/gas to the Provinces. 

 

At the very least, Canada would get a steady supply without fear of any shortages and market corrections.

So far I can agree. Are you going to force private companies to sell at a discount?

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9 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Norway is a country Alberta is a province. Imagine if 650 billion was put in the heritage fund.

Why is it one or the other for you? Why does BC continue to subsidize an industry that is dependent on the Americans and Japanese?

I'm aware.   Thing is, Alberta sets things like their provincial corporate taxes and their royalties.  Successive Albertan governments slashed those to the bone.  That's why your heritage fund is crap.  Thats how Albertans subsidized the oil industry.

 

I bring up Norway because they took steps to try and maximize the revenue from a limited resource.   Canada and Alberta have done everything that they can to piss away said revenue.   You seemingly miss the point.

 

 

As for the $650 billion or $20 billion or whatever number you pull out of your posterior,  that is not some cheque that Alberta cuts to the rest of Canada.   As others have pointed out. 

 

What I find funny is you complain about this from a socialism is bad angle.  Then you advocate for an industry to be propped up by tax dollars in a similar manner to the thing you complain about in multiple threads.  Weird. Almost like there is a word to describe this that starts with an H and rhyme with democracy.

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5 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

And rightfully so.

 

The energy sector, mainly oil and gas gave been warned for years about this.  It's literally what happened in the 70s and 80s that brought about the NEP and American investment in to soul sourcing of Canadian oil.

 

Businesses need to fly or fail based on their own merits.  That's capitalism.  Propping up failed business in the backs of taxpayers is a failure on all parts and never ends.

Did the finance industry 'fly or fall' in 2009 based on merit? The feds put $7 0r $8 billion into the car industry to bail them. We won't even go into how much money Bomber has got. I don't think the gas sector is healthy but it isn't dying like oil. I can see a program where government takes equity if a loan defaults. IMHO the work should already be done on which companies are critical to patch survival. This is a industry that has lost 150,000 jobs. It's high paying jobs have contributed to equalization in a major way. 

 

I don't think anyone should get a freebee from the taxpayer whether company or citizen. If either gets help it should all be repayable. Bottom line for many is that they won't be able to repay. As our PM goes on TV each day and hands out more money the issue of how this impacts the country's finances is never discussed. What a novel idea that our leader look into the camera which he loves so much and actually throw some financial facts out. 30% of Canadian federal debt is owed by foreigners.  

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1 hour ago, Ryan Strome said:

Can we get our 650 billion dollars back? I'm sick of propping up a whole country. 

Why would you get it back.  That was an investment.

 

Now Alberta will benefit and take out 800 billion out of Ottawa in prop up transfer payments.  Alberta will be a have not province within 2 years sucking all our money out of our federal budget.   Albertans will be moving to Newfoundland to search out well paid jobs and opportunities.

 

My how the pendulum has swung... irony  no ? 

Edited by kingofsurrey
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15 minutes ago, thedestroyerofworlds said:

I'm aware.   Thing is, Alberta sets things like their provincial corporate taxes and their royalties.  Successive Albertan governments slashed those to the bone.  That's why your heritage fund is crap.  Thats how Albertans subsidized the oil industry.

 

I bring up Norway because they took steps to try and maximize the revenue from a limited resource.   Canada and Alberta have done everything that they can to piss away said revenue.   You seemingly miss the point.

 

 

As for the $650 billion or $20 billion or whatever number you pull out of your posterior,  that is not some cheque that Alberta cuts to the rest of Canada.   As others have pointed out. 

 

What I find funny is you complain about this from a socialism is bad angle.  Then you advocate for an industry to be propped up by tax dollars in a similar manner to the thing you complain about in multiple threads.  Weird. Almost like there is a word to describe this that starts with an H and rhyme with democracy.

That 650 billion is fact, educate yourself. The point you keep missing is Norway doesn't give away 650 billion in equalization. 

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1 minute ago, kingofsurrey said:

Why would you get it back.  That was an investment.

 

Now Alberta will benefit and take out 800 billion out of Ottawa in prop up transfer payments.  Alberta will be a have not province within 2 years sucking all our money out of our federal budget.   Albertans will be moving to Newfoundland to search out well paid jobs and opportunities.

 

My how the pendulum has swung... irony  no ? 

No irony at all just complete made up nonsense. 

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6 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

That 650 billion is fact, educate yourself. The point you keep missing is Norway doesn't give away 650 billion in equalization. 

Alberta didn't give away anything.   I paid federal taxes.   You paid federal taxes.   Billy Bigbucks paid federal taxes.   Those taxes are then spent and transferred.  Having a lot of high paying jobs is why you "gave" Ottawa more than what you got back.  It's the same argument that rich folks try to give when comparing the dollars they paid compared to the dollars their employees paid.  Those rich folks shouldn't/don't get to use that to justify getting more back from the government.   Your argument doesn't get to stand either.

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