Discussion: If you HAD to move Podkolzin....

[qwijibo]

5 hours ago, canuktravella said:

maybe u should be informed https://thehockeynews.com/news/article/why-are-the-montreal-canadiens-allowing-cole-caufield-to-decide-his-future

Maybe you should learn how to read.  It says they are allowing him to decide but Bergevin doesn’t think he’s ready.  It doesn’t say Bergevin told him to go back to college.   It actually says they haven’t met yet in the article you linked. “Bergevin will meet with Caufield later this week to find out his intentions” 

 

 

none of this translates to he’s going to be a bust. In fact he’s tracking very well.  There’s no need to rush a 19 year old kid into the league if he needs a bit of seasoning 

So like I said. Nice try. 

Edited March 14, 2020 by qwijibo

[IBatch]

On 3/11/2020 at 2:24 PM, Elias Pettersson said:

IF Toffoli gets re-signed then one of Boeser or Podkolzin will need to be moved.  It's a great problem to have but Toffoli is lights out with Miller and Petey so you'd have to think that Boeser would be the odd man out, especially considering Podkolzin would be on an ELC for 3 years while Boeser will be looking to get paid big dollars in 2 years, so you have to think about the cap implications as well.  We could get a top 4 Dman if we move Boeser, so that is the logical move.  

IF this were true then we have no business overpaying for TT given the age comparison and should keep BB.  Plus we have no idea yet what JB has up has sleeve, a few modest cap dumps and Bear, Sutter or whomever can be shed (im opposed to this BTW but depending on what we give up could stomach it depending on both TT and Markstroms contracts) and we can afford both R winders in our top six. 

 

As for Podz, well he's another season away - then he's on his ELC so yes we can afford all three.  Difficult decisions later for sure but by then maybe BB is a star and could get us a much better player.   Or the caps gone up and everything is ok.   LEs contract will be split up, Pearson will likely be let go as well to pay for QH and EP - spooner and Luongo will be off the books eventually and yes we can have good things again.   Our cap isn't that bad - we just need to shed some vets.  

 

Trading BB would be a mistake at this point.   JV isn't going to replace him, he's the player he is going to mostly be by now...nothing wrong with that he's like injury insurance and is a solid bottom six player.  Oh and Leivo walks.  

 

 

[IBatch]

On 3/12/2020 at 1:08 AM, Elias Pettersson said:

Yes Podkolzin has zero NHL points in zero NHL games.  However his potential is through the roof.  Sure Boeser is the proven product but Podkolzin was chosen much higher in the draft for a reason.  He was a top 3 talent who fell to 10 because he already had a contract to play for 2 years in the KHL.  So I'd rather keep the top 3 talent versus keeping Boeser IF we re-sign Toffoli.  If Toffoli is not re-signed it is a moot point as you have to keep Boeser.  If Toffoli IS re-signed then someone on the right side has to go.  Boeser would bring the most assets back right now.  He also needs to be qualified at $7.5 million in two years while Podkolzin would be on an ELC contract at $900k, so the cap considerations come into play as well.

Leivo walks - there's 1.5.  Ferland likely won't be back - that's close to 5 million right there.   Trade Bear as a one year modest cap dump - for a second or prospect that's enough for Markstrom raise and a little more for TT.   As far as BB next qualifying offer he has two more years to earn that and don't see why he won't.   He's only going to get stronger and better - PLUS even if this is his peak it's good enough for top five for position as it is and he will earn his next contract. 

   Anyone who thinks TT is going to stay at last years level is dreaming.   Four times he's managed 40 points or more in his career.  Playing in our top six should keep him over 50 for a while ... which is fine for 5 x 5 maybe.   Our defense will have to rely around QH and someone else in the system taking the next step - and maybe a UFA to boost it.   Trading BB when he's 25  likely could  give us something a lot better too - if Podz - big if - can come in and beat him out THEN we should pull the trigger.   Otherwise we could be risking trading a 35/35 Tarasenko type before he's proven - and the return would be much smaller. 

[mll]

40 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Leivo walks - there's 1.5.  Ferland likely won't be back - that's close to 5 million right there.   Trade Bear as a one year modest cap dump - for a second or prospect that's enough for Markstrom raise and a little more for TT.   As far as BB next qualifying offer he has two more years to earn that and don't see why he won't.   He's only going to get stronger and better - PLUS even if this is his peak it's good enough for top five for position as it is and he will earn his next contract. 

   Anyone who thinks TT is going to stay at last years level is dreaming.   Four times he's managed 40 points or more in his career.  Playing in our top six should keep him over 50 for a while ... which is fine for 5 x 5 maybe.   Our defense will have to rely around QH and someone else in the system taking the next step - and maybe a UFA to boost it.   Trading BB when he's 25  likely could  give us something a lot better too - if Podz - big if - can come in and beat him out THEN we should pull the trigger.   Otherwise we could be risking trading a 35/35 Tarasenko type before he's proven - and the return would be much smaller. 

Latest update on Ferland.  

 

[Elias Pettersson]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

Leivo walks - there's 1.5.  Ferland likely won't be back - that's close to 5 million right there.   Trade Bear as a one year modest cap dump - for a second or prospect that's enough for Markstrom raise and a little more for TT.   As far as BB next qualifying offer he has two more years to earn that and don't see why he won't.   He's only going to get stronger and better - PLUS even if this is his peak it's good enough for top five for position as it is and he will earn his next contract. 

   Anyone who thinks TT is going to stay at last years level is dreaming.   Four times he's managed 40 points or more in his career.  Playing in our top six should keep him over 50 for a while ... which is fine for 5 x 5 maybe.   Our defense will have to rely around QH and someone else in the system taking the next step - and maybe a UFA to boost it.   Trading BB when he's 25  likely could  give us something a lot better too - if Podz - big if - can come in and beat him out THEN we should pull the trigger.   Otherwise we could be risking trading a 35/35 Tarasenko type before he's proven - and the return would be much smaller. 

I agree with your points.  At the end of the day if Toffoli is re-signed then you have 3 players fighting for 2 spots on the right wing.  Podkolzin will be on a cheap contract for many years and the potential on him is huge so he is safe.  So it is between Toffoli and Boeser.  Toffoli has proven in a very short time that he plays better with Miller and Petey than Boeser.  Remember Boeser was on the 3rd line for a long stretch before he was injured while Toffoli came in and was lights out from the beginning with our star players.  

 

Toffoli isn't getting 5x5.  He will get a raise to at least $6 million as a UFA or possibly more.  He's not that old, he's only a year older than Miller.  If you let go of Toffoli then you traded a bunch of assets for him for nothing.  I'd rather we keep him as he has better chemistry with the big boys.  We can always keep Boeser around until Podkolzin comes over and then the decision will need to be made.  There is a small chance Podkolzin can switch to the left side as he shoots left, but he looks like a typical Russian winger who likes to play on his off wing.  I don't believe he plays any left wing in Russia.

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I agree with your points.  At the end of the day if Toffoli is re-signed then you have 3 players fighting for 2 spots on the right wing.  Podkolzin will be on a cheap contract for many years and the potential on him is huge so he is safe.  So it is between Toffoli and Boeser.  Toffoli has proven in a very short time that he plays better with Miller and Petey than Boeser.  Remember Boeser was on the 3rd line for a long stretch before he was injured while Toffoli came in and was lights out from the beginning with our star players.  

 

Toffoli isn't getting 5x5.  He will get a raise to at least $6 million as a UFA or possibly more.  He's not that old, he's only a year older than Miller.  If you let go of Toffoli then you traded a bunch of assets for him for nothing.  I'd rather we keep him as he has better chemistry with the big boys.  We can always keep Boeser around until Podkolzin comes over and then the decision will need to be made.  There is a small chance Podkolzin can switch to the left side as he shoots left, but he looks like a typical Russian winger who likes to play on his off wing.  I don't believe he plays any left wing in Russia.

I think the Free Agents this summer are mostly going to sign one year deals.  The cap might even go down.  

[canuktravella]

6 hours ago, qwijibo said:

Maybe you should learn how to read.  It says they are allowing him to decide but Bergevin doesn’t think he’s ready.  It doesn’t say Bergevin told him to go back to college.   It actually says they haven’t met yet in the article you linked. “Bergevin will meet with Caufield later this week to find out his intentions” 

 

 

none of this translates to he’s going to be a bust. In fact he’s tracking very well.  There’s no need to rush a 19 year old kid into the league if he needs a bit of seasoning 

So like I said. Nice try. 

hes gonna bust hes a smurf no way his tiny body translates to nhl tryamkin would destroy him and end his career with one hit 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, canuktravella said:

hes gonna bust hes a smurf no way his tiny body translates to nhl tryamkin would destroy him and end his career with one hit 

IMO the Caulfield kid would be okay if he could skate better.  But a tiny guy, who struggles with skating, should never get drafted, especially not in round one.  He will put up lots of points in the AHL, and in a few years be playing in Europe.  

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:I agree with your points.  At the end of the day if Toffoli is re-signed then you have 3 players fighting for 2 spots on the right wing.  Podkolzin will be on a cheap contract for many years and the potential on him is huge so he is safe.  So it is between Toffoli and Boeser.  Toffoli has proven in a very short time that he plays better with Miller and Petey than Boeser.  Remember Boeser was on the 3rd line for a long stretch before he was injured while Toffoli came in and was lights out from the beginning with our star players.  

sif

Toffoli isn't getting 5x5.  He will get a raise to at least $6 million as a UFA or possibly more.  He's not that old, he's only a year older than Miller.  If you let go of Toffoli then you traded a bunch of assets for him for nothing.  I'd rather we keep him as he has better chemistry with the big boys.  We can always keep Boeser around until Podkolzin comes over and then the decision will need to be made.  There is a small chance Podkolzin can switch to the left side as he shoots left, but he looks like a typical Russian winger who likes to play on his off wing.  I don't believe he plays any left wing in Russia.

There has been some interest in trying Podz at center - that would be something if he did.  TT sample size is way too small to consider him a slam dunk on the top line - he also has lots of experience playing with Pearson.   I agree we should try and sign him but 6 seems too high.  Recent history has shown a lot of decent - good players fall off a cliff after signing their big money deals.  Okposo was a PPG future star in NY, way more impressive resume then TT, then you have guys like Ladd, Foligno, Neal, LE, Lucic - the list is quite long.  Maybe a team would overpay him and give him a similar deal that LE got - and yes players keep getting more - but to me 5 or maybe 5.5 will still probably  end up an overpayment - fair at best.

 

Podz won't be here for another season.  A lot could happen between then and now and it's doubtful he will come in and have a Calder worthy  season like BB, EP and QH have had.  He will start in the bottom six and have work his way up.   Maybe JV's still here, maybe not, one of these guys could definitely play on their off wing though if need be, and you know injuries will occur.  Would be a killer R wing set up and all but bump LE out. 

 

I don't think the team would have a hard time signing both guys.  Especially if Ferland is done.   Like to see what BB can manage with a full season at 100%, his back injury and recovery was brutal - this guy has been through a lot (Dad) and still all smiles - can't help but root for him.   No reason we can't keep both cap wise - a few tweaks.   Sure would be nice if the season resumes and we can get a larger sample size before these decisions have to be made.   We certainly can't afford another LE garbage contract.   Not saying TT will be bad - even said he's likely to get over 50 points playing in our top six (when 40 is around hisn career average) but no way I'd pick him over Boeser - too much potential and he's a core player worth building around.  I agree it would be a waste if we don't re-sign him - but it would be even worse if we overpaid him, traded BB for a serviceable second pairing guy that we could get for free instead of signing TT...there's a trade off there I don't like.  End up making the team older.  

 

Anyhow good thoughts.  I like TT and agree we should sign him.   Could stomach 5.5x5 but that's a lot to pay for a career middle six guy on a decent team, which is exactly what he is.  BB was fourth in R wing scoring when he went down and is having his worst season yet (and understandably so given the distractions).  

 

[Elias Pettersson]

3 hours ago, mll said:

Latest update on Ferland.  

 

I think Ferland could be in the mix next year.  I think his mistake was he should have taken the whole year off right from the summer.  But as a UFA there was extreme pressure to get another contract for himself.  So he was able to get a 4 year $14 million deal from the Canucks.  I don't think he did too much more damage to himself really, a couple of hits and a fight where he barely got touched.  I think it was mostly that he wasn't fully recovered yet from his previous concussion.  With some more time off he could be ready to go for September.  Maybe he should pay a visit to Crosby's doctor.

[J-Dizzle]

On 3/12/2020 at 11:07 AM, hammertime said:

Virtanen would put up similar numbers if he got Boesers 100% o zone starts and 1st unit PP. The difference is Virtanen can actually play a checking role Boeser last time he threw a body check he nearly ended his career. 

 

As much as I like Brock hes a 1 trick pony for 6m hes gotta do more than score goals in the high 20s.

Brock is not a one trick pony.... I don’t know where that narrative comes from but it’s just not true.  
 

He’s not a defensive dynamo by any means BUT he does play both sides of the puck and he’s a very complete offensive player.  

[IBatch]

30 minutes ago, J-Dizzle said:

Brock is not a one trick pony.... I don’t know where that narrative comes from but it’s just not true.  
 

He’s not a defensive dynamo by any means BUT he does play both sides of the puck and he’s a very complete offensive player.  

JVs had his chances in the past and aside from a 14 or so games this year (that's called a streak) hasn't always made the best of them.   He's a very useful player regardless - and there's still potential.   Next year a lot could happen - whether we sign TT or not.   Leivo is a cheap option still too if JB decides to invest somewhere else in the lineup. 

[mll]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I think Ferland could be in the mix next year.  I think his mistake was he should have taken the whole year off right from the summer.  But as a UFA there was extreme pressure to get another contract for himself.  So he was able to get a 4 year $14 million deal from the Canucks.  I don't think he did too much more damage to himself really, a couple of hits and a fight where he barely got touched.  I think it was mostly that he wasn't fully recovered yet from his previous concussion.  With some more time off he could be ready to go for September.  Maybe he should pay a visit to Crosby's doctor.

As soon as doctors rule a player ready to play they have to be activated and come back.  It's not possible to just take time off without a doctor ordering it.  If doctors rule him healthy to play and the Canucks don't activate him, it's cap circumvention and puts them at risk of even losing draft picks. If Ferland refuses to return the Canucks can suspend him without pay.  

 

They might only know once the season starts but have to plan their cap as if he will return.  Doctors have given him the go ahead to come back as he is skating.  

[canuktravella]

3 hours ago, Alflives said:

IMO the Caulfield kid would be okay if he could skate better.  But a tiny guy, who struggles with skating, should never get drafted, especially not in round one.  He will put up lots of points in the AHL, and in a few years be playing in Europe.  

tryamkin would kill him on a open ice hit the russian would break him

[JeremyCuddles]

I'd want a top pair d-man. Not top 4, top 2. I'd consider Ekblad outta Florida or Parayko outta St Louis. Florida apparently wants to spend less money next season. Ekblad has a pretty high cap hit at 7.5 per. But he has 41 points in 67 games. He is a big body (but he isn't a big hitter), gets in front of a decent amount of pucks, and he can eat minutes. Ekblad and Hughes would be a deadly pairing. Only problem is making the cap work. They'd have to take back Sutter or Eriksson. Lol. Very likely Eriksson since his actually money owed is very little. Parayko seems less likely, but if St Louis re-signs Pietrangelo I don't see how they ice a full team with Faulk, Pietrangelo and Parayko on the RD.

[Phil_314]

Yeah why don't we just wait to see if the Blues would let one of their guys go?

Also what do you believe would be the asking price for Ekblad?  I'd love to send Myers back the other way if we're adding so much cap to get an RHD.  Also hope Podkolzin wouldn't have to go back otherwise we'd be emptying the prospect shelves.

[Gawdzukes]

On 3/14/2020 at 3:48 PM, J-Dizzle said:

Brock is not a one trick pony.... I don’t know where that narrative comes from but it’s just not true.  
 

He’s not a defensive dynamo by any means BUT he does play both sides of the puck and he’s a very complete offensive player.  

Yeah. I'm surprised by how many people label him as one dimensional. He's actually got pretty great vision and looks to play a team game. He is also responsible defensively and is a gamer who can play tough when it counts. He looks to make plays for the team when it's close.

[Lazurus]

On 3/14/2020 at 2:08 PM, IBatch said:

Leivo walks - there's 1.5.  Ferland likely won't be back - that's close to 5 million right there.   Trade Bear as a one year modest cap dump - for a second or prospect that's enough for Markstrom raise and a little more for TT.   As far as BB next qualifying offer he has two more years to earn that and don't see why he won't.   He's only going to get stronger and better - PLUS even if this is his peak it's good enough for top five for position as it is and he will earn his next contract. 

   Anyone who thinks TT is going to stay at last years level is dreaming.   Four times he's managed 40 points or more in his career.  Playing in our top six should keep him over 50 for a while ... which is fine for 5 x 5 maybe.   Our defense will have to rely around QH and someone else in the system taking the next step - and maybe a UFA to boost it.   Trading BB when he's 25  likely could  give us something a lot better too - if Podz - big if - can come in and beat him out THEN we should pull the trigger.   Otherwise we could be risking trading a 35/35 Tarasenko type before he's proven - and the return would be much smaller. 

Brock or Podz?

 

Move Brock and keep Podz.

 

Brock has missed a lot of hockey due to injuries and the way his contract is structured he will be a 8 mil guy in another 2 years.

This year, after he gets his signing bonus of 3 mil he could fetch two young players either as draft picks or prospects of a combination and help save the cap for the other two guys Hughes and Pettersson.

Poldz will be on a rookie contract for three years, important years and if he ends up being another Virtanen+ all the good for the team.

 

Some of the decisions have to be made with the future in mind, can't just keep signing whoever to whatever contract they want and then suffer not deal with the consequences until they happen.

 

Tampa really like trading here now, they will have to shed salary again so instead of a first round pick they get a 1rst round prospect for some other player they deem they don't need or isn't as important to a winning club.

[IBatch]

29 minutes ago, Lazurus said:

Brock or Podz?

 

Move Brock and keep Podz.

 

Brock has missed a lot of hockey due to injuries and the way his contract is structured he will be a 8 mil guy in another 2 years.

This year, after he gets his signing bonus of 3 mil he could fetch two young players either as draft picks or prospects of a combination and help save the cap for the other two guys Hughes and Pettersson.

Poldz will be on a rookie contract for three years, important years and if he ends up being another Virtanen+ all the good for the team.

 

Some of the decisions have to be made with the future in mind, can't just keep signing whoever to whatever contract they want and then suffer not deal with the consequences until they happen.

 

Tampa really like trading here now, they will have to shed salary again so instead of a first round pick they get a 1rst round prospect for some other player they deem they don't need or isn't as important to a winning club.

Why in the world would we do that?  Podz hasn’t played a game in the NHL yet and isn’t known for his offense but hopefully will make it and improve in that area.   He’s a tenacious forechecker - ie likely a middle six player...as far as “keep signing these guys” go - well we’ve only got three marquee players so far and BB is one of them.  Was top 5 in scoring for R wingers when he went down - not sure what more your expecting from him and as far as 8 million goes I hope that is the case because if he gets that then good times for us.

 

  Seriously think that he’s earned a top six spot at this point - he’s career PGP so far is impressive...and he’s going to get better and he’s showing that he’s not just about goals too.  Players don’t peak their rookie year - well ok it’s happened twice that I can think of but one of those was Selanne - the other Gomez- both keepers.    20/40 goal scorers don’t grow on trees you know.   How many years did it take Naslund, the Sedins, Nealy and Kesler to bloom?   Yes he’s had some fluke injuries - so did rocket Richard - bet MTL is happy they didn’t give up on him as quickly as too many fans on this site have. 
 

edit:  as far as TB goes - not sure what you mean by that - are you suggesting we trade BB for Palat or Johnson or one of their expensive vets and a pick back?   Kind of counterintuitive given what you say about the future of our cap right?

Edited May 8, 2020 by IBatch

[Gurn]

On 3/14/2020 at 7:08 AM, IBatch said:

Ferland likely won't be back - that's close to 5 million right there.

Ferland isn't going to retire, not with millions of dollars left on his contract. He may be able to play and if not he will still get paid. The team may be able to stash his cap hit on LTIR but Ferland will get his money.

On 3/14/2020 at 7:08 AM, IBatch said:

Trade Bear as a one year modest cap dump - for a second or prospect

He was offered up before for free, I believe, and yet  part of his salary remains on the Canuck Cap.

I'd rather not lose a second to gain $1 mill in cap space, same with a prospect.

On 3/14/2020 at 7:08 AM, IBatch said:

that's enough for Markstrom raise and a little more for TT.  

Both Markstrom and Toffoli get to decide where to play, so I wouldn't count on either being back. Out of the two I'd rather Markstrom stays, but it will be his choice, not mine.