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[Speculation] Could Coronavirus Lead to the Return of Compliance Buyouts?


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1 minute ago, J-Dizzle said:

Louie’s still capable of being an NHL player.... he’s just being paid about four million too much :p 

On what team does he belong in a legitimate lineup?  He sure as hell isn't good enough to play for ours, even as an injury replacement.  Most teams don't want a spoiled, lazy floater who won't hit,can't score, and can't skate, while whining to the media that he doesn't get to waste top 6 minutes. 

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Just now, gurn said:

Then lose the lawsuit that results from that action.

Why the hell would you get sued when it's clear he isn't good enough to play in the NHL and doesn't have a good enough attitude to take a demotion to a league appropriate for his skill/effort level like a man?

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3 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Why the hell would you get sued when it's clear he isn't good enough to play in the NHL and doesn't have a good enough attitude to take a demotion to a league appropriate for his skill/effort level like a man?

He has a contract to play hockey, not serve food.

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1 minute ago, King Heffy said:

On what team does he belong in a legitimate lineup?  He sure as hell isn't good enough to play for ours, even as an injury replacement.  Most teams don't want a spoiled, lazy floater who won't hit,can't score, and can't skate, while whining to the media that he doesn't get to waste top 6 minutes. 

I mean that’s a little bit dramatic but.....I don’t love him as a player but he’s still capable of contributing as a middle six player in the right situation.  
 

I don’t think this team is the right situation but if he was making 2.5 a year I highly doubt people would be as annoyed with him.  

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On 4/2/2020 at 6:29 PM, qwijibo said:

You clearly have no concept of business.  The owners insisted on a salary cap to begin with to reign in GM’s spending.  They want their GM’s to be responsible with their money.  Do you think Florida’s ownership would be happy to pay Bobrovsky $40m to buy him out 1 year into a 7 year contract, then have the GM turn around and spend that $10m a season trying to find another goalie?   If you do you’re fooling yourself. The NHL is a business, and haphazardly blowing hundreds of millions Of dollars buying out underperforming players makes no sense, especially when you consider it won’t save them any money. It’s just compounding the losses 

it really is even more then that i think

if compliance buyouts are permitted

any that are exercised will be tagged as a business cost

a business expense added to the owner's side of the ledger

and will be shared by the players in salary cap adjustments

so that the business model of shared 50% of revenues is maintained

so players will actually also bear the cost of any buyouts

 

i do doubt, as i have posted previously, that compliance buyouts is the tool that will be seen as most effective

enlarging escrow deductions is likely what will happen

there is already strong rumour that the entire last pay cheque for every player

will go 100% into the escrow account

as a result of this pandemic

 

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On 4/5/2020 at 3:53 PM, qwijibo said:

Regardless of your opinion of his contract. There is zero chance Montreal buys him out. Here’s why

The 2/3rds formula only applies to salary, not signing bonus.  $45m of the remaining $55m owed to Price is signing bonus.  So they save 2/3 of $10m. They end up paying him roughly $51 of $55m despite no longer having his services. Plus they have to pay a new starting goalie. Which more than eats up the meagre savings they get from buying him out.  Those are  real dollars.  Do you think Geoff Molson (or any owner) would be cool with paying someone $51m to not play for them? Especially a goalie who is still near the top of the league. (When healthy) 

except

it does free up 10 million in cap space for montreal

since compliance buyouts are cap exempt transactions

 

so if they are a rich franchise like toronto

they do not care about cash

they care way way more about cap space

 

they can sign another goalie for 5 million or less (particularly in this crisis period)

and have another 5 million to bolster other areas of their roster

and really save themselves the extreme pain they will go through during the last 3 years of price's contract

(and as posted above, this expense is something they will get players to share equally in through salary cap threshold adjustments, so you have to think of this as owners only having to pay 1/2 of the true cost)

 

 

Edited by coastal.view
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14 minutes ago, coastal.view said:

except

it does free up 10 million in cap space for montreal

since compliance buyouts are cap exempt transactions

 

so if they are a rich franchise like toronto

they do not care about cash

they care way way more about cap space

 

they can sign another goalie for 5 million or less (particularly in this crisis period)

and have another 5 million to bolster other areas of their roster

and really save themselves the extreme pain they will go through during the last 3 years of price's contract

(and as posted above, this expense is something they will get players to share equally in through salary cap threshold adjustments, so you have to think of this as owners only having to pay 1/2 of the true cost)

 

 

Montreal hasn’t spent to the cap in three seasons. They had $8m in unused cap this year.  They’re not going to pay $51m to buy out Price to manufacture a net of $5m ish cap space (after signing another starter). Especially when they can get $4.63m in cap space by buying out Alzner for far less money.  And he’s player that has mostly played in the minors the last two seasons so they don’t need to use that cap to replace him 

Edited by qwijibo
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1 minute ago, qwijibo said:

Montreal hasn’t spent to the cap in three seasons. They had $8m in unused cap this year.  They’re not going to pay $51m to buy out Price to manufacture a net of $5m ish cap space (after signing another starter) 

i don't agree

they are the 3rd most valuable franchise in the nhl

new york is 1st

toronto is 2nd

 

those valuations relate to revenue and profit levels

and those 3 teams are a significant step above the team listed at number 4

 

price is not a financial issue for montreal

they can easily buy him out

their issue is price is a fixture in montreal

and they would have to explain why they are dumping him

when they just signed him to a long term high value contract

as if he were patrick roy calibre

and we all know what happened when they dumped roy

 

 

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4 minutes ago, coastal.view said:

i don't agree

they are the 3rd most valuable franchise in the nhl

new york is 1st

toronto is 2nd

 

those valuations relate to revenue and profit levels

and those 3 teams are a significant step above the team listed at number 4

 

price is not a financial issue for montreal

they can easily buy him out

their issue is price is a fixture in montreal

and they would have to explain why they are dumping him

when they just signed him to a long term high value contract

as if he were patrick roy calibre

and we all know what happened when they dumped roy

 

 

But why buy out Price yo manufacture $5m or less in cap space at a coSt of $51m when they can simply buy out Alzner for  far less?  Alzner has been playing in the AHL for moSt if the last two seasons, so it’s wasted cap space, and it frees up $4.63 m dollars in cap.  You can’t tell me that doesn’t make far more sense 

 

Also, rumour is the reason Julien has been given such a long leash (other than being French) is that he has substantial term and money left of his contract and Molson is too cheap to pay to fire him 

Edited by qwijibo
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6 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

But why buy out Price yo manufacture $5m or less in cap space at a coSt of $51m when they can simply buy out Alzner for  far less?  Alzner has been playing in the AHL for moSt if the last two seasons, so it’s wasted cap space, and it frees up $4.63 m dollars in cap.  You can’t tell me that doesn’t make far more sense 

 

Also, rumour is the reason Julien has been given such a long leash (other than being French) is that he has substantial term and money left of his contract and Molson is too cheap to pay to fire him 

alzner's contract is shorter and cheaper

years 5 to 8 on price's contract are going to be horrendous likely

buying him out now creates future financial flexibility

and given the structure of the nhl's revenue sharing model

the habs would be getting out of the price contract

for 50cents on the dollar

so i can see very good long term reasons to use compliance buy out on him

that is the same reason why some suggest nucks using a buy out on myers

 

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2 minutes ago, coastal.view said:

alzner's contract is shorter and cheaper

years 5 to 8 on price's contract are going to be horrendous likely

buying him out now creates future financial flexibility

and given the structure of the nhl's revenue sharing model

the habs would be getting out of the price contract

for 50cents on the dollar

so i can see very good long term reasons to use compliance buy out on him

that is the same reason why some suggest nucks using a buy out on myers

 

Totally disagree. And a GM who is concerned about his job right now will care more about icing a stronger team now than creating cap flexibility years down the road.  

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Just now, qwijibo said:

Totally disagree. And a GM who is concerned about his job right now will care more about icing a stronger team now than creating cap flexibility years down the road.  

so you think

that the past 2 years seeing price perform

since he signed this massive deal

makes no difference to habs management ?

anyone can clearly see his contract will become an anchor in the last half

and as you have astutely and correctly pointed out

due to its bonus structure it is completely buy out proof

 

he and bob are the 2 best paid goalies in the nhl this year

and both are not close to being the top nhl goalies this season

and both are unlikely to reach that status again

i think florida should be considering buying out bob for the same reasons

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14 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

Totally disagree. And a GM who is concerned about his job right now will care more about icing a stronger team now than creating cap flexibility years down the road.  

another thought

since we are debating a hypothetical here

which neither of us can successfully do

 

let's look at the lecavalier tampa situation

when the lightning bought him out

the same arguments are relevant

yet tampa bought him out anyway

it had to do with new adjusted cap issues

and a cap free compliance buyout opportunity

 

same considerations apply if compliance buyouts are available again now

Edited by coastal.view
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4 minutes ago, coastal.view said:

so you think

that the past 2 years seeing price perform

since he signed this massive deal

makes no difference to habs management ?

anyone can clearly see his contract will become an anchor in the last half

and as you have astutely and correctly pointed out

due to its bonus structure it is completely buy out proof

 

he and bob are the 2 best paid goalies in the nhl this year

and both are not close to being the top nhl goalies this season

and both are unlikely to reach that status again

i think florida should be considering buying out bob for the same reasons

So your argument is Montreal should pay $51m of $55m owed you Price to get rid of their starting G (who was just named as the best goalie in this years players poll) to create cap space (despite not spending to the cap in 3 years) to ensure his contract doesn’t become a problem down the road.  And they ignore the easy way to manufacture cap space by not buying out the player that costs them 

$4.63m a year and plays in Laval? (And costs them under $4m to buy out) 

 

ok.  You’re dug in. You go on believing it’s a good move for Montreal when literally every fact (rather than opinion ) says otherwise 
 

 

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1 hour ago, Chris12345 said:

Good points.

 

So what would a Myers trade look like?

Nothing, because we're not buying him out or trading him.

 

1 hour ago, DeNiro said:

We have guys like Tryamkin and Rafferty coming that need to be given a spot. Better to give them a chance and save 5 million.

 

Our D was the weakest part of our team this season. We need to make changes there regardless.

 

I’d rather save the money on D for the forwards. Guys like Roussel and Sutter can be traded if needed much easier. And Eriksson can be waived and forced into retirement if it comes to that.

Nobody needs to be given a spot. They need to earn them.

 

They're also likely to earn spots further down the lineup than Myers. At least for the time being.

 

Sutter is gone in a year anyway. Roussel I think we're going to trade anyway. And no, a top 4 RHD is FAR easier to trade than either should we want to (we don't).

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53 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

But why buy out Price yo manufacture $5m or less in cap space at a coSt of $51m when they can simply buy out Alzner for  far less?  Alzner has been playing in the AHL for moSt if the last two seasons, so it’s wasted cap space, and it frees up $4.63 m dollars in cap.  You can’t tell me that doesn’t make far more sense 

 

Also, rumour is the reason Julien has been given such a long leash (other than being French) is that he has substantial term and money left of his contract and Molson is too cheap to pay to fire him 

Well Alzner is only costing them a shade of $3.5 million for their cap while he is buried and it is only for two years.  Moving on from Price and getting a better performing goalie while saving $5 million to their cap long term has to be a serious consideration. They don't seem to be in any sort of cap crunch for those two years.  They are, however, flush with one of the league's best young prospects pool and also have a crap ton of picks coming their way (14 just this draft alone).  Their cap crunch is going to be longer term, after Alzner's contract has expired but while they are still paying a huge sum for Price.  those higher end prospects are going to end up costing money as their ELCs expire.

The other issue is there is just no other way to move on from Price.  He has a full NMC for 6 more years and a salary structure that is buyout proof for normal buyouts.  If they have any worry about him long term, this is their one chance to do something about it.

They also have one of the top goalie prospects outside the NHL in Cayden Primeau (rated above Dipietro) in the wings who could back up a veteran starter and then take over.

I still doubt they buy out either Price or Weber in the end... but think it is foolish for people to dismiss that those are very real possibilities for a team that is trying to build towards something beyond the next couple of years.

 

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42 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

So your argument is Montreal should pay $51m of $55m owed you Price to get rid of their starting G (who was just named as the best goalie in this years players poll) to create cap space (despite not spending to the cap in 3 years) to ensure his contract doesn’t become a problem down the road.  And they ignore the easy way to manufacture cap space by not buying out the player that costs them 

$4.63m a year and plays in Laval? (And costs them under $4m to buy out) 

 

ok.  You’re dug in. You go on believing it’s a good move for Montreal when literally every fact (rather than opinion ) says otherwise 
 

 

i clearly am

and you clearly are not?

 

ok then

 

provost must be in the same dug in hole as me

i made it big enough so he could join me .. though his support comes as a surprise

 

clearly tampa was as well when they bought out vincent

 

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3 minutes ago, Provost said:

Well Alzner is only costing them a shade of $3.5 million for their cap while he is buried and it is only for two years.  Moving on from Price and getting a better performing goalie while saving $5 million to their cap long term has to be a serious consideration. They don't seem to be in any sort of cap crunch for those two years.  They are, however, flush with one of the league's best young prospects pool and also have a crap ton of picks coming their way (14 just this draft alone).  Their cap crunch is going to be longer term, after Alzner's contract has expired but while they are still paying a huge sum for Price.  those higher end prospects are going to end up costing money as their ELCs expire.

The other issue is there is just no other way to move on from Price.  He has a full NMC for 6 more years and a salary structure that is buyout proof for normal buyouts.  If they have any worry about him long term, this is their one chance to do something about it.

They also have one of the top goalie prospects outside the NHL in Cayden Primeau (rated above Dipietro) in the wings who could back up a veteran starter and then take over.

I still doubt they buy out either Price or Weber in the end... but think it is foolish for people to dismiss that those are very real possibilities for a team that is trying to build towards something beyond the next couple of years.

 

Once again. It costs Montreal $51 of $55m to buy Price out.  That alone is enough to kill any talk of buying out.  And who exactly is this “better performing goalie” thst they can just magically add to replace him. Yes. Primeau is a fantastic prospect. But it’s far to early to peg him as a top end starter 

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4 hours ago, gurn said:

If those players earn spots changes will be made. JB has made moves to ice the line up he wants before this, I see no reason this time is different?

Nope but that’s a separate issue from the cap and who he would want to use his compliance buyout on.

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2 hours ago, qwijibo said:

Once again. It costs Montreal $51 of $55m to buy Price out.  That alone is enough to kill any talk of buying out.  And who exactly is this “better performing goalie” thst they can just magically add to replace him. Yes. Primeau is a fantastic prospect. But it’s far to early to peg him as a top end starter 

We don't know that it would cost Montreal $51 million of $55 million to buy Price out.  The compliance buyout rules aren't the same as normal buyouts and are a one time negotiated deal with their own rules.  There is almost no way that they don't include the bonuses as a straight 2/3rds buyout, they aren't going to negotiate an agreement which makes bought out players MORE than whole, which would happen with the idea you floated... Price can still go earn money elsewhere on top of his buyout as he becomes a free agent.  Again, it will be the NHLPA who needs the compliance buyouts more than the league does.  The league gets their 50% regardless and compliance buyouts cost them extra on top of that.  What compliance buyouts save is players getting dinged for huge escrow and UFAs only being able to get contracts at a fraction of current market values (if they can even find a job) because there is no money in the system to pay them.

I believe there is $54 million remaining for the full value of his contract, so the likeliest scenario would be a straight 2/3rds of that so he would get around $36 million... saving them $18 million in real dollars.  Assuming a $5.5 million top end replacement for 6 years... that is another $33 million to replace him.  So in effect they would be paying an extra $2.5 million in cash a year for 6 years to buy themselves $5 million in cap space for each of those years.  That isn't a hard pill for one of the highest value teams in the league to swallow if it is going to net out to more success.  Two extra playoff series in that 6 years probably pays that difference in terms of real dollars.

 

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