Judd Brackett

[Fred65]

15 minutes ago, JoshuaGuy said:

I'm gonna need you guys to stop saying 'proof' when talking about a JD Burke radio bit. The guys a &^@#ing tool.

He may be a &^@#ing tool, however he has the opportunity and certainly does talk with other teams  scouts which neither you or I do!  He's right in the fact this is unprecedented occasion certainly for Vcr to have this degree of success in the draft. The question is the split between who was the most influential in those decissions. JB knows  and understand even if Brackett leaves he will not be held to account for this decission for years to come. If JB  breaks up what has brought success to the club then shame on the club. You don't toy with success …. IMO

[nowhereman]

Never been a fan of JD Burke; his "I'm the smartest guy in the room" alpha nerd schtick grates on me, which makes me consider quite deeply that he's an account holder on HFBoards Canucks. It's hard to take his thoughts on this seriously, since he is so unapologetically biased against management and twists things quite frequently. Personally, I'd rather reserve judgment on what's happening behind closed doors, since there's really no proof either way.

 

Though, Burke's comments do leave me a bit muddled. So, let me get this straight... Benning has constantly undermined, undervalued, and ignored the scouting department... yet still proceeded to make all of their picks and take the credit? Hmm....

Edited May 5, 2020 by nowhereman

[Provost]

49 minutes ago, JoshuaGuy said:

I'm gonna need you guys to stop saying 'proof' when talking about a JD Burke radio bit. The guys a &^@#ing tool.

Except when he is one in a chorus of many people saying the same thing... it makes things pretty clear.

Stop pretending that you have more connections and insights as people who actually speak to the parties involved regularly.  This is a pretty balanced radio hit.  It also suggests that it may be Weisbrod could be the source of the conflict, he does have a terrible record even prior to coming to the Canucks.

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/vancouver-1040/burke-scouts-are-noticing-that-the-people-most-responsible-for-bringing-in-pettersson-could-all-be-gone-within-three-years-1.1472808

Edited May 5, 2020 by Provost

[theo5789]

Lol JD Burke, does he still believe that the Miller trade was a bad trade? Isn't he the one that constantly criticizes our picks, specifically their skating only to have video clips shown of said players blowing past opponents with their speed? Has he once said anything positive about this organization? If so, I haven't read it, but I don't really bother to follow what he has to say anyway. But hey everything he says must be truth right?

 

He names a bunch of people supposedly responsible for the Petey pick, but conveniently omits Delorme who also has been credited for the pick, but I guess he doesn't fit the negative rant.

 

And surprise, draft boards change as picks go off the board, who would've thought? Yet Benning still making the final call goes for the supposed "scouts picks" as if they don't have meetings to discuss who they want and like which could be several players because who knows who will far to where in the latter rounds?

[ruilin96]

1 minute ago, Quantum said:

There's a real case here that Judd Brackett will be working for another team next year, which absolutely sucks. Brackett should be an assistant GM and left alone, he's proven his worth.

 

I'm just curious... was Juolevi a Brackett pick or a Benning pick?!? Has anyone ever talked about that. Because that pick seems to be the one big stain on Brackett's resume if it was a Brackett pick.

Everybody is going to have a bad pick, you are never going to bat at 100%. The fact that he hit on both Pettersson and Hughes the following years is more than enough to redeem the whiff he had the year before. My theory with the Juolevi pick was the Canucks as an organization was not high on Tkachuk and was thinking more base on positional need. They were targeting a 1st line center or a #1 pairing defenseman. They wanted Dubois as their center, but he was taken at #3. So right after the Duboi pick, the Canucks was basically looking at defenseman. They obviously believe OJ is the best defenseman available at the time. Remember, OJ had a tremendous WJC and Memorial Cup Championship run. He was the best defenseman on both championship teams in his draft year.

 

As for who decided to go with Juolevi between Benning and Brackett, I am more leaning towards Benning. I was at the Canucks prospect development camp in Shawnigan Lake during the summer of 2016, and I overheard a off record conversation between Dave Tomlinson and Iain McIntyre at the side of the rink. Both of them said Benning really wanted to draft a defenseman in the first round base on the players available. And Benning had his eye on other defensemen that were picked later in the first round and was thinking of trading down to pick those players instead. A right deal never came up. From their conversation, it really seems like the team wasn't really considering of drafting a winger at all. So at #5, the team went with who they think the best defenseman available: Olli Juolevi. Base on the conversation I heard between McIntyre and Tomlinson at the time was that a defenseman that Jim Benning was interested in at the draft was apparently Jake Bean, and Jim was trying to trade down to acquire more assets and pick Jake Bean with the later pick. JB saw Jake Bean as a guy who could be powerplay defenseman put up a lot of points from the blue line.

[theo5789]

1 hour ago, Fred65 said:

in the case of Hughes I recall JB saying to Brackett after they grabbed Woo, "well you got both of YOUR players"

What a load of bull. Benning told the Hughes family that Quinn wasn't getting past their pick. That doesn't sound like someone that might've not been on board with the pick. Benning is constantly fist pumping after picks, so clearly even if they were "scout" picks that he was fully on board with them. And honestly that's the point of having a scouting department so that they can do their job and give input on several players to pick and have a draft board. Things are fluid especially after the 1st round and that why there are instances like "why has no one taken Lind yet?" Sometimes players you don't expect there are there and you may go against what the scouting meetings had planned.

[JM_]

1 hour ago, Squamfan said:

nope benning went against all of his socuts

[JM_]

14 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

Lol JD Burke, does he still believe that the Miller trade was a bad trade? Isn't he the one that constantly criticizes our picks, specifically their skating only to have video clips shown of said players blowing past opponents with their speed? Has he once said anything positive about this organization? If so, I haven't read it, but I don't really bother to follow what he has to say anyway. But hey everything he says must be truth right?

 

He names a bunch of people supposedly responsible for the Petey pick, but conveniently omits Delorme who also has been credited for the pick, but I guess he doesn't fit the negative rant.

 

And surprise, draft boards change as picks go off the board, who would've thought? Yet Benning still making the final call goes for the supposed "scouts picks" as if they don't have meetings to discuss who they want and like which could be several players because who knows who will far to where in the latter rounds?

 

honest to god, the search for blame in this thread is turning into the Franklin Expedition 

[aGENT]

30 minutes ago, Provost said:

Except when he is one in a chorus of many people saying the same thing... it makes things pretty clear.

Except that's exactly our garbage media's usual playbook.

 

One of the talking heads on TMZ 1040 largely fabricates a controversial story to drive clicks/listeners based on some loose threads of info and conjecture, declaring it as 'fact'. Then they take turns writing, tweeting and talking about it until the myth becomes reality in the world's saddest circle jerk. Then gullible listeners/twits, start spreading 'the gospel according to JD'.

 

Rinse and repeat.

 

People REALLY need to start identifying this very obvious pattern.

[JM_]

21 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Except that's exactly our garbage media's usual playbook.

 

One of the talking heads on TMZ 1040 largely fabricates a controversial story to drive clicks/listeners based on some loose threads of info and conjecture, declaring it as 'fact'. Then they take turns writing, tweeting and talking about it until the myth becomes reality in the world's saddest circle jerk. Then gullible listeners/twits, start spreading 'the gospel according to JD'.

 

Rinse and repeat.

 

People REALLY need to start identifying this very obvious pattern.

yeah but some dude named Taj tweeted it, so its real. ITS REAL!!! 

[Fred65]

28 minutes ago, theo5789 said:

What a load of bull. Benning told the Hughes family that Quinn wasn't getting past their pick. That doesn't sound like someone that might've not been on board with the pick. Benning is constantly fist pumping after picks, so clearly even if they were "scout" picks that he was fully on board with them. And honestly that's the point of having a scouting department so that they can do their job and give input on several players to pick and have a draft board. Things are fluid especially after the 1st round and that why there are instances like "why has no one taken Lind yet?" Sometimes players you don't expect there are there and you may go against what the scouting meetings had planned.

I checked and the words were " we got our guy "  so technically you're right

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEdqADPRX1s

 

1:34

 

The Brackett to JB is Woo goes we make the trade

 

3:21 It's up to Judd

 

The next selection was Madden and JB didn't as much as know which school the guy was going to attend … detail, details

 

 

[Quantum]

47 minutes ago, ruilin96 said:

Everybody is going to have a bad pick, you are never going to bat at 100%. The fact that he hit on both Pettersson and Hughes the following years is more than enough to redeem the whiff he had the year before. My theory with the Juolevi pick was the Canucks as an organization was not high on Tkachuk and was thinking more base on positional need. They were targeting a 1st line center or a #1 pairing defenseman. They wanted Dubois as their center, but he was taken at #3. So right after the Duboi pick, the Canucks was basically looking at defenseman. They obviously believe OJ is the best defenseman available at the time. Remember, OJ had a tremendous WJC and Memorial Cup Championship run. He was the best defenseman on both championship teams in his draft year.

 

As for who decided to go with Juolevi between Benning and Brackett, I am more leaning towards Benning. I was at the Canucks prospect development camp in Shawnigan Lake during the summer of 2016, and I overheard a off record conversation between Dave Tomlinson and Iain McIntyre at the side of the rink. Both of them said Benning really wanted to draft a defenseman in the first round base on the players available. And Benning had his eye on other defensemen that were picked later in the first round and was thinking of trading down to pick those players instead. A right deal never came up. From their conversation, it really seems like the team wasn't really considering of drafting a winger at all. So at #5, the team went with who they think the best defenseman available: Olli Juolevi. Base on the conversation I heard between McIntyre and Tomlinson at the time was that a defenseman that Jim Benning was interested in at the draft was apparently Jake Bean, and Jim was trying to trade down to acquire more assets and pick Jake Bean with the later pick. JB saw Jake Bean as a guy who could be powerplay defenseman put up a lot of points from the blue line.

I completely agree with everything you've said.

 

That year, it made a world of sense to pick Juolevi over Tkachuk. We already had, in management's mind, a hard nosed player in Jake Virtanen and it would probably have been viewed as redundant to pick the same kind of prospect, with such a high pick, two years in a row. I never got or liked the "We should've picked Tkachuk over Juolevi" arguments because it was never gonna happen. Sure, I'd have loved Tkachuk but not picking him ended up getting us Pettersson and Hughes in back to back drafts, I'll take those two over Tkachuk any day of the week.

 

I feel like the only true "We should have gotten him" pick from that draft is Mikhail Serguchev. He fit a similar profile to Juolevi that year and he'd have been the better pick of the two that year (obviously) and he was actually the defenseman I wanted the Canucks to pick that year too. That said, I don't want to call Juolevi a bust yet or ever. Injuries are clearly derailing his career and injuries are the one thing that shouldn't be counted when labeling a player a bust. A player can't make themselves injured, it just happens. I'd call Nail Yakupov a bust because he was never really injured, he just wasn't that great. I'd call Griffin Reinhart a bust because he sucked. I wouldn't call Juolevi or even a Ryan Murphy (of Columbus) a bust, they're just injury prone players selected high. It happens.

 

Jake Bean would have been an interesting pick. Hasn't made an NHL impact yet but he did have 48 points in 50 AHL games this year... so he was trending the right way. Sometimes I wish GM's, if they really want a player, reached more. I know that doesn't always yield good results but it can -- and more importantly, it makes for fun TV.

[Fred65]

16 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

yeah but some dude named Taj tweeted it, so its real. ITS REAL!!! 

As I said the only guy that knows definitively is Benning and his Priest. How ever unlike you or I Burke does get to talk to other scouts around the league, so you have to concede he's in a better position than either you or I. I recall at the old Queens Park Arena when the NW Bruins played they had a scouts room, always filled, always filled with cigar smoke and every one laughing, I suspect at others cost  There's a whole lot of chatter goes on when these guys get together. The thing is to get access to the chatter Burke has it you and  I don't so  I'd give more weight to Burke than the posters on the forum, but, that's just me 

[JM_]

3 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

As I said the only guy that knows definitively is Benning and his Priest. How ever unlike you or I Burke does get to talk to other scouts around the league, so you have to concede he's in a better position than either you or I. I recall at the old Queens Park Arena when the NW Bruins played they had a scouts room, always filled, always filled with cigar smoke and every one laughing, I suspect at others cost  There's a whole lot of chatter goes on when these guys get together. The thing is to get access to the chatter Burke has it you and  I don't so  I'd give more weight to Burke than the posters on the forum, but, that's just me 

I don't have to concede squat. JD Burke has been off the mark many times, as has 1040 and their giant front end loader of BS.

[SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME]

2 hours ago, Squamfan said:

More proof Petterson and Hughes were Scouting picks and not Bennings

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I find it kinda funny how JD repeatedly says “this isn’t uncommon” and “this is relatively common,” in telling the story of the supposed “acrimonious” relationship between management and the scouting department.
 

Almost sounds like he’s admitting that this kinda stuff happens all the time. 

 

I mean, you have 20-25 guys in a room, deciding on ~7 picks, from maybe 300-400 players that might deserve consideration in any draft.

 

Is it any surprise that there are disagreements during this kind of process? 
 

I mean, come on. Everybody here must have some experience with meetings. Even if you’re just a high school student who’s done a group project, joined a club, or been on the yearbook committee. Anyone who’s been in a room during a planning session has to realize that people have differences of opinion, argue points, and weight counterpoints, as part of the process of reaching consensus. That’s kinda how it works.

 

I suspect if you had a “fly on the wall” in all 31 teams’ meetings, you could probably take those stories and spin a yarn about how every team in the league has a “rift” between their scouts and management. 
 

Yet somehow they still manage to make their picks without breaking into fistfights on the draft floor. Funny that. 

[theo5789]

5 minutes ago, Fred65 said:

I checked and the words were " we got our guy "  so technically you're right

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEdqADPRX1s

 

1:34

 

The Brackett to JB is Woo goes we make the trade

 

3:21 It's up to Judd

 

The next selection was Madden and JB didn't as much as know which school the guy was going to attend … detail, details

 

 

So for sure, Quinn wasn't specifically a "Judd pick", we all know that. "We got our guy" is in reference to Jett Woo. Just prior to this comment, they mention how there are 3 players they want (assuming decided during their scout meetings) and are deciding if they should trade the pick if they are gone. Two of those options must've been gone which left Jett being the guy that if he got picked, then they would make the trade.

 

Benning might've not remembered which school Madden was attending, but they likely discussed his name in the draft meetings. Judd's specific job is to bethe head scout and have this information on hand. Benning has more duties as a general manager, so the expectation for him to remember hundred's of players' information seems rather unfair as a judgement towards him. Whether it's Brackett or someone else, likely whoever the head scout will be is still going to in charge of gathering this information and retaining for the GM and thus why he is needed still on the draft floor.

 

"It's up to Judd" is in reference to whether they should make a trade of much later picks (I believe 6th rounders). Nothing to do with the Madden selection.

 

Details indeed.

[theo5789]

 

46 minutes ago, SID.IS.SID.ME.IS.ME said:

I find it kinda funny how JD repeatedly says “this isn’t uncommon” and “this is relatively common,” in telling the story of the supposed “acrimonious” relationship between management and the scouting department.
 

Almost sounds like he’s admitting that this kinda stuff happens all the time. 

 

I mean, you have 20-25 guys in a room, deciding on ~7 picks, from maybe 300-400 players that might deserve consideration in any draft.

 

Is it any surprise that there are disagreements during this kind of process? 
 

I mean, come on. Everybody here must have some experience with meetings. Even if you’re just a high school student who’s done a group project, joined a club, or been on the yearbook committee. Anyone who’s been in a room during a planning session has to realize that people have differences of opinion, argue points, and weight counterpoints, as part of the process of reaching consensus. That’s kinda how it works.

 

I suspect if you had a “fly on the wall” in all 31 teams’ meetings, you could probably take those stories and spin a yarn about how every team in the league has a “rift” between their scouts and management. 
 

Yet somehow they still manage to make their picks without breaking into fistfights on the draft floor. Funny that. 

I suppose the difference between our team and other teams is that Benning makes the wrong picks every time and every pick that pans out with 20/20 hindsight is credited to Brackett and his amazing single-handed scouting and stiff arming Benning into making his picks.

Edited May 5, 2020 by theo5789

[theo5789]

19 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I don't have to concede squat. JD Burke has been off the mark many times, as has 1040 and their giant front end loader of BS.

Is it any surprise that someone that puts more weight into what someone in the media (JD Burke especially) has to say is so negative towards this team? What a shocker.

[Fred65]

There are those that believe Benning can walk on water and there are those that treat him just like another mortal, frankly similar to the fans that idolize Juolevi and Virtanen. It's cult like   nothing more to say unfortunately 

Edited May 5, 2020 by Fred65

[Canuck Surfer]

So right now, it seems obvious we have had success via & including the scouting department.

 

Benning has has taken on board enough input that we have success.

 

That is his job?

 

This debate is silly///stop it! 

 

Benning is not Trump. He does not say ''I think'' and go against the advice of his advisors. He says ''we think,'' or ''we thought,'' or ''we liked'' when talking about the teams prospects. And he gives them credit, says we could afford to trade Tyler Madden because we still had a strong prospect pool. Nor call it fake news as Burke seems to be doing. 

 

 

 

Brackett has been a part of that successful scouting department. No harm in him looking for a GM or other job before he signs a contract. In the meantime he is still working for us. I hope we keep him! But I am sure there will be another match if not. 

 

I also recall Benning asking Brackett if he wanted extra picks deep in the draft 2 years ago? So we trade, i think it was a 4th to Chicago for two picks. I recall Brackett saying there was still lots of guys they liked, Benning taking it on board. They sat at the draft table together.