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On 7/6/2020 at 9:56 AM, Dazzle said:

This makes no sense at all.

 

I guess the Masterton trophy is objectifying a player's struggles too then. They give them a freaking trophy, which in your view is assessing a value.

 

Lmm, leave the SJW for other people. This doesn't suit you.

Don't bother Drazzle... There is no reasonable conversation to be had here.

Edited by shayster007
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On 7/6/2020 at 9:56 AM, Dazzle said:

This makes no sense at all.

 

I guess the Masterton trophy is objectifying a player's struggles too then. They give them a freaking trophy, which in your view is assessing a value.

 

Lmm, leave the SJW for other people. This doesn't suit you.

Well, since you brought it up, what do you actually know about Bill Masterton?

 

I know that he died during the first season of expansion, and that there are several trophies etc named after him, and that he may have been playing with a concussion before he was hit on Janruary 13, 1968.

 

But what else do you know about him?

Would he have won his own trophy ?

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2 hours ago, lmm said:

Well, since you brought it up, what do you actually know about Bill Masterton?

 

I know that he died during the first season of expansion, and that there are several trophies etc named after him, and that he may have been playing with a concussion before he was hit on Janruary 13, 1968.

 

But what else do you know about him?

Would he have won his own trophy ?

I actually don't know much about Bill Masterton at all. I just know he must have been an important person to have a trophy named after him. I also know that the trophy is given to people who show perseverance in light of the challenging circumstances they faced.

 

I initially thought you weren't interested in talking about this subject. But as long as we have a healthy discussion about a subject without a hidden agenda, I will participate and learn stuff. I have no intention in starting or continuing a controversy, especially since there was no initial desire to talk about something that wasn't going to lead to anything productive.

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On 7/6/2020 at 9:56 AM, Dazzle said:

This makes no sense at all.

 

I guess the Masterton trophy is objectifying a player's struggles too then. They give them a freaking trophy, which in your view is assessing a value.

 

Lmm, leave the SJW for other people. This doesn't suit you.

Hey Dazzle

 here is a list of masterton winners and a short bio

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Masterton_Memorial_Trophy

 

If you will notice in the early years most player bios read "Overcame... (Back injury, Knee surgury, Diabetes..) 

Sometimes it looks like they were really reaching to find someone... Henri Richard, Serge Savard, Jean Ratelle (at the mid point of his career)

But things semmed to change in 2010 when Jose Theodore's bio reads ".. followong his son's death) and again in 2014 (... She died in 2013)

Its almost like the voting was taken over by Ron McLean. I can't stand Ron McLean.

Interestingly in 2002  Ed Jovonoski did not win the trophy after his baby died inutero a year earlier. They  gave it to Koivu for beating cancer.

So times changed between 2002 and 2009. 

I read the bios in Danny Gallavan's voice up to 2009 but I read them in that simpering Ron McLean voice from 2010 onward,

 

Maybe I am a dinosaur and think we should not be giving people trophy because their family dies.

This is where I think of your gandmother saying to your dad,"Just because Johnny jumps off a bridge, does that mean you will follow?"

Just because the NHL puts the status of Craig Andrson's wife in his Masterton Bio, does that mean all fans should discuss the value of players dead relatives?

 

Let me tell you about  my brother, he died.

for 2 years afterward, when his buddies wanted to see him they called me. After a while I got tired of these drunks saying to me, " your brother, man, I loved that guy...."

I stopped going out with them and they stopped calling,

I talked to his wife, and she says, "Ya, being the Hot rod widow got kind of old"

I can talk about this, because he was my brother, but it is not up for public debate.

 

Having been through a few deaths, I can tell you sometimes going back to work is good, because it allows a distraction, while for some people in some circumstances it is not good.

Maybe the players should be giving the trophy because going back to the rink allows that distraction.

 

Edited by lmm
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Just now, lmm said:

Hey Dazzler

 here is a list of masterton winners and a short bio

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Masterton_Memorial_Trophy

 

If you will notice in the early years most player bios read "Overcame... (Back injury, Knee surgury, Diabetes..) 

Sometimes it looks like they were really reaching to find someone... Henri Richard, Serge Savard, Jean Ratelle (at the mid point of his career)

But things semmed to change in 2010 when Jose Theodore's bio reads ".. followong his son's death) and again in 2014 (... She died in 2013)

Its almost like the voting was taken over by Ron McLean. I can't stand Ron McLean.

Interestingly in 2002  Ed Jovonoski did not win the trophy after his baby died inutero a year earlier. They  gave it to Koivu for beating cancer.

So times changed between 2002 and 2009. 

I read the bios in Danny Gallavan's voice up to 2009 but I read them in that simpering Ron McLean voice from 2010 onward,

 

Maybe I am a dinosaur and think we should not be giving people trophy because their family dies.

This is where I think of your gandmother saying to your dad,"Just because Johnny jumps off a bridge, does that mean you will follow?"

Just because the NHL puts the status of Craig Andrson's wife in his Masterton Bio, does that mean all fans should discuss the value of players dead relatives?

 

Let me tell you about  my brother, he died.

for 2 years afterward, when his buddies wanted to see him they called me. After a while I got tired of these drunks saying to me, " your brother, man, I loved that guy...."

I stopped going out with them and they stopped calling,

I talked to his wife, and she says, "Ya, being the Hot rod widow got kind of old"

I can talk about this, because he was my brother, but it is not up for public debate.

 

Having been through a few deaths, I can tell you sometimes going back to work is good, because it allows a distraction, while for some people in some circumstances it is not good.

Maybe the players should be giving the trophy because going back to the rink allows that distraction.

 

I think loss affects people very differently. The coping mechanisms are also not well understood sometimes.

 

Some people can "play through it". Others can't. It's neither good nor bad. I suppose rewarding a trophy is kind of rewarding people who can "play through it". That being said, I think a trophy can still be a nice way to recognize an athlete's sacrifice/dedication to the game.

 

If a person talks about another player's loss, it can be seen as respectful/disrespectful. I think that's a different issue altogether.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

I think loss affects people very differently. The coping mechanisms are also not well understood sometimes.

 

Some people can "play through it". Others can't. It's neither good nor bad. I suppose rewarding a trophy is kind of rewarding people who can "play through it". That being said, I think a trophy can still be a nice way to recognize an athlete's sacrifice/dedication to the game.

 

If a person talks about another player's loss, it can be seen as respectful/disrespectful. I think that's a different issue altogether.

 

 

yes I agree

 

your last line is where I came into this argument

i feel the quantification of a players father's demise is disrespectful

I seem to be the only one who feels that way.

 

i was going to let this drop, but you see above Shayster thought it was a good time to take another shot at me.

If you read through, you will see they has claimed that i am making person attacks.

I think the shoe might be on the other foot

not much left to say between Shay and me.

 

this is where I feel Shayster crosses the line

from page 7

 

... I have been a vocal supporter that the Canucks could win a cup this season for one reason. Markstrom. 

 

That guy has played out of his mind for the majority of the year, and had an extremely emotional year with the loss of his father. Playoffs can be won by a goalie, we have seen that first hand. If Markstrom catches fire, he could will the Canucks to a cup for his Dad. I firmly believe that. That guy showed incredible force of will this year with his play, and I know that must have been at least in part for his father.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, lmm said:

yes I agree

 

your last line is where I came into this argument

i feel the quantification of a players father's demise is disrespectful

I seem to be the only one who feels that way.

 

i was going to let this drop, but you see above Shayster thought it was a good time to take another shot at me.

If you read through, you will see they has claimed that i am making person attacks.

I think the shoe might be on the other foot

not much left to say between Shay and me.

 

this is where I feel Shayster crosses the line

from page 7

 

... I have been a vocal supporter that the Canucks could win a cup this season for one reason. Markstrom. 

 

That guy has played out of his mind for the majority of the year, and had an extremely emotional year with the loss of his father. Playoffs can be won by a goalie, we have seen that first hand. If Markstrom catches fire, he could will the Canucks to a cup for his Dad. I firmly believe that. That guy showed incredible force of will this year with his play, and I know that must have been at least in part for his father.

 

 

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Well, I thought we were going somewhere with this but it looks like you're more interested in restarting the conversation between you and him.

 

You can take issue with what he said, but it honestly doesn't (and shouldn't) affect you at all because you're not Markstrom. So, I'm not sure why this controversy exists in the first place because of what shayster said. If you think what he said was offensive or rule breaking, report it. Why bother trying to be a mini-mod when it's not your place to be one? I assume you didn't actually report because you used our opportunity to try and "get back" at someone else. This is pretty manipulative behaviour there, lmm.

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16 hours ago, Dazzle said:

Well, I thought we were going somewhere with this but it looks like you're more interested in restarting the conversation between you and him.

 

You can take issue with what he said, but it honestly doesn't (and shouldn't) affect you at all because you're not Markstrom. So, I'm not sure why this controversy exists in the first place because of what shayster said. If you think what he said was offensive or rule breaking, report it. Why bother trying to be a mini-mod when it's not your place to be one? I assume you didn't actually report because you used our opportunity to try and "get back" at someone else. This is pretty manipulative behaviour there, lmm.

Well, that is an interesting take.

Carry on

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Wild are back at practice.  Everyone accounted for other than Pateryn who is out with an upper body injury.  He won't travel to the bubble of phase 4.

 

Same lines as when the season was suspended (per McLellan)

 

Greenway Staal Fiala

Parise ErikssonEk Kunin

Foligno Galchenyuk Zuccarello

Donato Koivu Hartman

 

Suter Spurgeon

Brodin Dumba

Soucy Hunt

 

Rask as extra.  Others being Iowa/junior players. 

 

Edited by mll
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23 minutes ago, mll said:

Wild are back at practice.  Everyone accounted for other than Pateryn who is out with an upper body injury.  He won't travel to the bubble of phase 4.

 

Same lines as when the season was suspended (per McLellan)

 

Greenway Staal Fiala

Parise ErikssonEk Kunin

Foligno Galchenyuk Zuccarello

Donato Koivu Hartman

 

Suter Spurgeon

Brodin Dumba

Soucy Hunt

 

Rask as extra.  Others being Iowa/junior players. 

 

that's a solid, balanced lineup

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Wild are a balanced crew and their oldies can still play... but I just have this feeling that we run them out of the building.  It’ll be sloppier hockey and I like our chances in high event games with Marky / our top 9’s ability to shoot the puck.
 

I’ve also put a lot of stock into JB/Green having a competitive, focused room... maybe wishful thinking but I think it all pays off. 

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7 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

Wild are a balanced crew and their oldies can still play... but I just have this feeling that we run them out of the building.  It’ll be sloppier hockey and I like our chances in high event games with Marky / our top 9’s ability to shoot the puck.
 

I’ve also put a lot of stock into JB/Green having a competitive, focused room... maybe wishful thinking but I think it all pays off. 

Their forward group is actually pretty solid right down the lineup - don’t have the same top end ability their best players used to have but if they put it all on the line right from the start we could end up disappointed.  As long as our players do the same we should come out on top.   Worried about cheap shots against our youngsters as a way to knock us out of the series ... will be a big test for EP, QHs and BB.   

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4 hours ago, mll said:

Ferland announced by the Canucks on twitter as unfit to play today.  

 

I’m not reading that on this tweet.  Do you have other information that says Ferland is “unfit “ to do play?   Maybe tomorrow Roussel is out or Pearson - just curious ...Edit: Ok I saw the quote by TSN - JB expects him back soon..

 

Hmm.  Getting unfit or unable to practice might be code for Covid 19...Pastrnak for Boston has the same nomenclature as do several others 

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On 7/6/2020 at 11:39 AM, lmm said:

Hey Dazz, you are a little late to the party. Shayster and I have decided to give this topic a rest.

Fell free to continue on your own

 

On 7/10/2020 at 2:25 PM, lmm said:

Well, since you brought it up, what do you actually know about Bill Masterton?

 

I know that he died during the first season of expansion, and that there are several trophies etc named after him, and that he may have been playing with a concussion before he was hit on Janruary 13, 1968.

 

But what else do you know about him?

Would he have won his own trophy ?

Not to pick on you but these are 2 responses to the same post and are only a couple of posts apart on the same page.

Made me laugh!  I have trouble "giving things a rest" as well sometimes.

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45 minutes ago, Baratheon said:

 

Not to pick on you but these are 2 responses to the same post and are only a couple of posts apart on the same page.

Made me laugh!  I have trouble "giving things a rest" as well sometimes.

haha did you note the jab from shayster betweeen those 2 posts?

So ya I did let myself get sucked back in.

 

anyway i was thinking about starting a poll

"What would you rather win, The Lady Byng or the Masterton?

could throw in a 3rd, a Silver medal

 

the other point is talked out, so this is a different direction for tangent spasms

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2 hours ago, lmm said:

haha did you note the jab from shayster betweeen those 2 posts?

So ya I did let myself get sucked back in.

 

anyway i was thinking about starting a poll

"What would you rather win, The Lady Byng or the Masterton?

could throw in a 3rd, a Silver medal

 

the other point is talked out, so this is a different direction for tangent spasms

Lol yeah I saw the jab.  Just bugging and you took it well!

 

Byng vs Masterton is interesting though.  I can't say that I have ever given it much thought.  My instinct would be to say Lady Byng because that probably means that you are a "star" level player while that is not necessarily the case with the Bill Masterton.  A little off-topic for this thread though!

 

Pearson-Horvat-Boeser!!  That's what I clicked on this thread to read about!  Apparently they were a line today in camp and I like it.  One of the deadliest 2nd lines possible imo!

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6 hours ago, IBatch said:

I’m not reading that on this tweet.  Do you have other information that says Ferland is “unfit “ to do play?   Maybe tomorrow Roussel is out or Pearson - just curious ...Edit: Ok I saw the quote by TSN - JB expects him back soon..

 

Hmm.  Getting unfit or unable to practice might be code for Covid 19...Pastrnak for Boston has the same nomenclature as do several others 

By league policy teams cannot disclose any details.  Players insist on confidentiality and their privacy be respected. Every injury / illness is going to be classified as "unfit to play" but is not necessarily covid related.

 

Benning had a zoom call with media after practice.  

 

As for Pastrnak - it might be due to quarantine requirements. 

 

Edited by mll
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Mike Kelly previews the series using Sportlogiq's tracking technology.  This is part 1 - style of play.

 

In the clip he says (highlights):

 

'I don't think the Wild are built to exploit the Canucks biggest weakness. The Canucks don't play with a lot of pace to their game but neither do the Wild.  Vancouver lacks team speed and is built to create offence by working the puck in the offensive zone.  The Canucks finished dead last in scoring chances off the rush and only Detroit scored fewer goals.

 

'The Canucks dump the puck at a high rate and score more goals by cycling the puck than any team in the league.  The problem when playing 3 Fs below the hashmarks you are vulnerable to transition offence and odd-man rushes against.  Vancouver finished bottom-5 in rush chances and goals against this season.  They don't have enough team speed to have an effective transition game.'

 

'The Wild are one of the best defensive teams in the league this season.  They did a great job at keeping teams out of the middle of the ice.  They defend well against the rush and allow very few scoring chances in zone, which should help them against an elite cycle team like the Canucks.  The problem, despite allowing the 3rd fewest cycles chances against still allowed the 4th most cycle goals against.  The Wild got the worse goaltending in the league this season and it wasn't close.'

 

Quote

 

 

 

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